Mitch Richmond

[quote="NCJohnnie" post=300271]The 2019 recruiting season is not over, why don't we wait until April or May to judge it? Just to remind everyone, it was April or so when we landed Figgy who has three years of eligibility and gives all signs of being a four star level recruit. It was not luck to get him, it was a wonderful coup by our leading recruiter. I am looking forward to a great and fun year. If it doesn't turn out that way, time to bash the staff then.[/quote]

Granted the recruiting process is never over. Recruiting transfers is all about making quick connections and showing a recruit the dots leading him to playing time. That's Matt's strength. Recruiting 4 and 5 star talent out of high school takes a lot of credibility and establishing long term relationships. We have been lacking in the latter. I repeat, if Hurley out recruits Mullin in his first year at UConn it will be an indictment on our staff's credibility. Hurley is coming into a program that has been down the past two years as we have been but is somehow making recruiting a priority.
I repeat what I said in Lavin's final season, i.e., winning will not be enough if departing players are not replaced by equally, if not more talented, players.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=300278]
....... Recruiting 4 and 5 star talent out of high school takes a lot of credibility and establishing long term relationships......[/quote]

The recent convictions of James Gatto, Adidas’s former head of global basketball marketing; Merl Code Jr., another former Adidas employee; and aspiring agent named Christian Dawkins seems to indicate that Louisville, UArizona and other top men’s basketball programs have indeed established long term relationships with more than jus high school basketball players.
 
[quote="otis" post=300279][quote="Class of 72" post=300278]
....... Recruiting 4 and 5 star talent out of high school takes a lot of credibility and establishing long term relationships......[/quote]

The recent convictions of James Gatto, Adidas’s former head of global basketball marketing; Merl Code Jr., another former Adidas employee; and aspiring agent named Christian Dawkins seems to indicate that Louisville, UArizona and other top men’s basketball programs have indeed established long term relationships with more than jus high school basketball players.[/quote] agreed but not Hurley and Uconn. If he outdoes us then IMO thats ridiculous. just my opinion
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=300247][quote="IDRAFT" post=300245]Willis really knew how to recruit. None of our current coaches have dated any recruits Moms. Maybe that’s the problem.[/quote]
Ha! Benoit Benjamin[/quote]
"Dated" is a polite way of putting it, yes?
 
[quote="otis" post=300279][quote="Class of 72" post=300278]
....... Recruiting 4 and 5 star talent out of high school takes a lot of credibility and establishing long term relationships......[/quote]

The recent convictions of James Gatto, Adidas’s former head of global basketball marketing; Merl Code Jr., another former Adidas employee; and aspiring agent named Christian Dawkins seems to indicate that Louisville, UArizona and other top men’s basketball programs have indeed established long term relationships with more than jus high school basketball players.[/quote]

I should have started that with "in the ideal world".;) I also should have added a lot of $$. You bring up a very disturbing fact that the most successful programs need to pay for the services of players, even if indirectly, to maintain their competitive advantage yet the NCAA turns a blind eye year after year.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=300285][quote="otis" post=300279][quote="Class of 72" post=300278]
....... Recruiting 4 and 5 star talent out of high school takes a lot of credibility and establishing long term relationships......[/quote]

The recent convictions of James Gatto, Adidas’s former head of global basketball marketing; Merl Code Jr., another former Adidas employee; and aspiring agent named Christian Dawkins seems to indicate that Louisville, UArizona and other top men’s basketball programs have indeed established long term relationships with more than jus high school basketball players.[/quote]

I should have started that with "in the ideal world".;) I also should have added a lot of $$. You bring up a very disturbing fact that the most successful programs need to pay for the services of players, even if indirectly, to maintain their competitive advantage yet the NCAA turns a blind eye year after year.[/quote]

We can complain about how stubborn or selfish Mullin is, but as far as recruiting goes, as long as the elite schools "PAY FOR SERVICES" without any repercussions from the NCAA, no school can really compete sitting at a 3 legged table.
The team we have today, is possibly the most talented in a very long time. These pieces did not assemble themselves. Oh yes, I know, Matt did most of the heavy lifting, but he was hired away from Iowa State by Mullin.
Why don't we let this season play out and after that we all will be in a better position to make intelligent conclusions as to where we stand. In the mean time recruiting is a living, breathing animal, maybe we might be surprised by what has elapsed, as to the record, players and coaches.
 
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[quote="otis" post=300279][quote="Class of 72" post=300278]
....... Recruiting 4 and 5 star talent out of high school takes a lot of credibility and establishing long term relationships......[/quote]

The recent convictions of James Gatto, Adidas’s former head of global basketball marketing; Merl Code Jr., another former Adidas employee; and aspiring agent named Christian Dawkins seems to indicate that Louisville, UArizona and other top men’s basketball programs have indeed established long term relationships with more than jus high school basketball players.[/quote]

Is this the same James Gatto who had coached at Mater Christi HS? I was at the CHSAA championship game, in the late 1970s, when they beat Holy Cross, in overtime. That MC team was loaded with Division 1 talent, including Vern Fleming, Red Bruin and Tiny Smith. Wonder if the cheating was going on at that level.
 
[quote="Las Vegan" post=300305][quote="otis" post=300279][quote="Class of 72" post=300278]
....... Recruiting 4 and 5 star talent out of high school takes a lot of credibility and establishing long term relationships......[/quote]

The recent convictions of James Gatto, Adidas’s former head of global basketball marketing; Merl Code Jr., another former Adidas employee; and aspiring agent named Christian Dawkins seems to indicate that Louisville, UArizona and other top men’s basketball programs have indeed established long term relationships with more than jus high school basketball players.[/quote]

Is this the same James Gatto who had coached at Mater Christi HS? I was at the CHSAA championship game, in the late 1970s, when they beat Holy Cross, in overtime. That MC team was loaded with Division 1 talent, including Vern Fleming, Red Bruin and Tiny Smith. Wonder if the cheating was going on at that level.[/quote]

No
 
[quote="Frank61" post=300302][quote="Class of 72" post=300285][quote="otis" post=300279][quote="Class of 72" post=300278]
....... Recruiting 4 and 5 star talent out of high school takes a lot of credibility and establishing long term relationships......[/quote]

The recent convictions of James Gatto, Adidas’s former head of global basketball marketing; Merl Code Jr., another former Adidas employee; and aspiring agent named Christian Dawkins seems to indicate that Louisville, UArizona and other top men’s basketball programs have indeed established long term relationships with more than jus high school basketball players.[/quote]

I should have started that with "in the ideal world".;) I also should have added a lot of $$. You bring up a very disturbing fact that the most successful programs need to pay for the services of players, even if indirectly, to maintain their competitive advantage yet the NCAA turns a blind eye year after year.[/quote]

We can complain about how stubborn or selfish Mullin is, but as far as recruiting goes, as long as the elite schools "PAY FOR SERVICES" without any repercussions from the NCAA, no school can really compete sitting at a 3 legged table.
The team we have today, is possibly the most talented in a very long time. These pieces did not assemble themselves. Oh yes, I know, Matt did most of the heavy lifting, but he was hired away from Iowa State by Mullin.
Why don't we let this season play out and after that we all will be in a better position to make intelligent conclusions as to where we stand. In the mean time recruiting is a living, breathing animal, maybe we might be surprised by what has elapsed, as to the record, players and coaches.[/quote]

I hear you, but we are not asking for "elite" recruiting. We are asking for PC/Xavier/etc. recruiting. We are not just not recruiting well, we are at the bottom of our conference. If we recruited the way DePaul has lately, we'd all get drunk and throw a party. Yes DePaul. That's the point...no one's demanding 5 star top 10 kids. They're asking for what DePaul has.
 
[quote="Moose" post=300307][quote="Las Vegan" post=300305][quote="otis" post=300279][quote="Class of 72" post=300278]
....... Recruiting 4 and 5 star talent out of high school takes a lot of credibility and establishing long term relationships......[/quote]

The recent convictions of James Gatto, Adidas’s former head of global basketball marketing; Merl Code Jr., another former Adidas employee; and aspiring agent named Christian Dawkins seems to indicate that Louisville, UArizona and other top men’s basketball programs have indeed established long term relationships with more than jus high school basketball players.[/quote]

Is this the same James Gatto who had coached at Mater Christi HS? I was at the CHSAA championship game, in the late 1970s, when they beat Holy Cross, in overtime. That MC team was loaded with Division 1 talent, including Vern Fleming, Red Bruin and Tiny Smith. Wonder if the cheating was going on at that level.[/quote]

No[/quote]

Cheating? Depends what you call cheating. All i know is that without athletic scholarships, magically some of the best players from the projects wound up at private schools, some like Molloy and Holy Cross which were better academic schools
 
[quote="NCJohnnie" post=300271]The 2019 recruiting season is not over, why don't we wait until April or May to judge it? Just to remind everyone, it was April or so when we landed Figgy who has three years of eligibility and gives all signs of being a four star level recruit. It was not luck to get him, it was a wonderful coup by our leading recruiter. I am looking forward to a great and fun year. If it doesn't turn out that way, time to bash the staff then.[/quote]

NCJohnnie: "The 2019 recruiting season is not over, why don't we wait until April or May to judge it? "

Remove the year (2019) and fill in any year since 2013 and we have been regurgitating "why don't we wait until April or May to judge".
Programs that have sustained success don't pin their recruiting success to grabbing the sloppy seconds of a recruiting class. We got very lucky this year with Figueroa and Heron. Without them I don't think we break .500.
For 2019 I fully expected at least one early commitment. Got none.
I will be very happy to get either Precious or Kofi in the Spring and hopefully we can pull the trigger and get both but do you feel lucky as Clint Eastwood would say? Can we get lucky two years in a row?
 
It's kind of curious that whenever something good happens regarding a recruit for us, it's lucky. There was nothing lucky about our recruitment of Figgy. He saw us as a perfect fir for him and presumably our staff had something to do with that. Same thing with Simon & Clark. Only thing lucky with Heron is he decided he needed to transfer closer to home. The fact that he picked us as opposed to UCONN, Hall or another local school was not luck. Is the fact that we are widely considered to have one of the 2 or 3 most talented rosters in the Big East luck?
I wish I were that lucky. Let's go Johnnies.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=300346][quote="NCJohnnie" post=300271]The 2019 recruiting season is not over, why don't we wait until April or May to judge it? Just to remind everyone, it was April or so when we landed Figgy who has three years of eligibility and gives all signs of being a four star level recruit. It was not luck to get him, it was a wonderful coup by our leading recruiter. I am looking forward to a great and fun year. If it doesn't turn out that way, time to bash the staff then.[/quote]

NCJohnnie: "The 2019 recruiting season is not over, why don't we wait until April or May to judge it? "

Remove the year (2019) and fill in any year since 2013 and we have been regurgitating "why don't we wait until April or May to judge".
Programs that have sustained success don't pin their recruiting success to grabbing the sloppy seconds of a recruiting class. We got very lucky this year with Figueroa and Heron. Without them I don't think we break .500.
For 2019 I fully expected at least one early commitment. Got none.
I will be very happy to get either Precious or Kofi in the Spring and hopefully we can pull the trigger and get both but do you feel lucky as Clint Eastwood would say? Can we get lucky two years in a row?[/quote]

I think one of the biggest differences two camps on here have are: those who give the staff the benefit of the doubt and those who take exception to the idea that they should be given the benefit of the doubt after 3 straight woeful seasons and a rough showing vs. URI and a D2 team to start year 4. I just so happen to fall in the latter camp. Prove your worth first, then the critiques will die out. If you keep failing with this much talent, you deserve every critique you get. May sound harsh, but remember these are grown men with fat salaries. They aren't losing any sleep over a critique on a forum. By the way, didn't UConn just run out of scholarships for Heron?
 
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[quote="Mike Zaun" post=300348][quote="Class of 72" post=300346][quote="NCJohnnie" post=300271]The 2019 recruiting season is not over, why don't we wait until April or May to judge it? Just to remind everyone, it was April or so when we landed Figgy who has three years of eligibility and gives all signs of being a four star level recruit. It was not luck to get him, it was a wonderful coup by our leading recruiter. I am looking forward to a great and fun year. If it doesn't turn out that way, time to bash the staff then.[/quote]

NCJohnnie: "The 2019 recruiting season is not over, why don't we wait until April or May to judge it? "

Remove the year (2019) and fill in any year since 2013 and we have been regurgitating "why don't we wait until April or May to judge".
Programs that have sustained success don't pin their recruiting success to grabbing the sloppy seconds of a recruiting class. We got very lucky this year with Figueroa and Heron. Without them I don't think we break .500.
For 2019 I fully expected at least one early commitment. Got none.
I will be very happy to get either Precious or Kofi in the Spring and hopefully we can pull the trigger and get both but do you feel lucky as Clint Eastwood would say? Can we get lucky two years in a row?[/quote]

I think one of the biggest differences two camps on here have are: those who give the staff the benefit of the doubt and those who take exception to the idea that they should be given the benefit of the doubt after 3 straight woeful seasons and a rough showing vs. URI and a D2 team to start year 4. I just so happen to fall in the latter camp. Prove your worth first, then the critiques will die out. If you keep failing with this much talent, you deserve every critique you get. May sound harsh, but remember these are grown men with fat salaries. They aren't losing any sleep over a critique on a forum. By the way, didn't UConn just run out of scholarships for Heron?[/quote]
Heron actually flirted with transferring to SJU after his freshman year and had a solid relationship with Matt for a while as I understand it. The promising roster for coming year also helped, as noted by NCJ, with attracting him this season. It was thus not surprising he opted for Johnnies and not UConn.
 
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Mike Zaun wrote: I think one of the biggest differences two camps on here have are: those who give the staff the benefit of the doubt and those who take exception to the idea that they should be given the benefit of the doubt after 3 straight woeful seasons and a rough showing vs. URI and a D2 team to start year 4. I just so happen to fall in the latter camp. Prove your worth first, then the critiques will die out. If you keep failing with this much talent, you deserve every critique you get. May sound harsh, but remember these are grown men with fat salaries. They aren't losing any sleep over a critique on a forum. By the way, didn't UConn just run out of scholarships for Heron?

Mike,
This is my last response as we obviously just differ on our life view. When you say "if you keep failing with this much talent you deserve every critique you get", remember a couple of things: (1) this is the first year the staff has had this kind of talent and they haven't failed yet and (2) it's all too easy to throw stones at others w/o any understanding of what you'd feel like if they were throwing stones at you. Chill out and enjoy.
 
[quote="NCJohnnie" post=300347]It's kind of curious that whenever something good happens regarding a recruit for us, it's lucky. There was nothing lucky about our recruitment of Figgy. He saw us as a perfect fir for him and presumably our staff had something to do with that. Same thing with Simon & Clark. Only thing lucky with Heron is he decided he needed to transfer closer to home. The fact that he picked us as opposed to UCONN, Hall or another local school was not luck. Is the fact that we are widely considered to have one of the 2 or 3 most talented rosters in the Big East luck?
I wish I were that lucky. Let's go Johnnies.[/quote]

I think it’s viewed to be more ‘luck’ versus ‘relationship’ with transfers than HS recruits, because of the short timeline to ID, court,and convince transfers versus HS kids and because during that short time, the transom of ‘possibilities’ is enormously ‘large’.
Witness the myriad of names that popped on this Board in our quintessential ‘Big’ hunt, just this past year, + the sundry squadron of transfer guards that popped up in April - May.
Matt is super good at this highly competitive, intense, and fluid recruitng sub-market.
You have to woo and convince transfers in a very short time and be the right ‘fit’, and that decision has to be made in a firefly’s attention span.
So, with Figgy, yeah, I’d say we were lucky and also ‘lucky’ he was a bit under the radar.
And we were lucky with Simon and Clark, because their brand’ was not at high appeal, following disappointing stints at AZ and Michigan State.
I could be wrong. Just my view.
 
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I disagree very strongly. IMO, that's not luck. Getting guys like Simon, Clark, Keita, Owens, Dixon & Figgy is a result of very good talent evaluation and the ability to get them to come to our school as opposed to another school. Just don't understand the theory that recruiting HS players is "hard work and talent" while recruiting transfers is somehow "luck". Bottom line is roster and results.
 
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Some of the transfers aren't just a flash opportunity with limited time to pounce. It's been said, that past connections exist, putting out feelers, keeping relations through intermediaries etc. In some respects this can be more challenging.
 
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[quote="Paultzman" post=300349][quote="Mike Zaun" post=300348][quote="Class of 72" post=300346][quote="NCJohnnie" post=300271]The 2019 recruiting season is not over, why don't we wait until April or May to judge it? Just to remind everyone, it was April or so when we landed Figgy who has three years of eligibility and gives all signs of being a four star level recruit. It was not luck to get him, it was a wonderful coup by our leading recruiter. I am looking forward to a great and fun year. If it doesn't turn out that way, time to bash the staff then.[/quote]

NCJohnnie: "The 2019 recruiting season is not over, why don't we wait until April or May to judge it? "

Remove the year (2019) and fill in any year since 2013 and we have been regurgitating "why don't we wait until April or May to judge".
Programs that have sustained success don't pin their recruiting success to grabbing the sloppy seconds of a recruiting class. We got very lucky this year with Figueroa and Heron. Without them I don't think we break .500.
For 2019 I fully expected at least one early commitment. Got none.
I will be very happy to get either Precious or Kofi in the Spring and hopefully we can pull the trigger and get both but do you feel lucky as Clint Eastwood would say? Can we get lucky two years in a row?[/quote]

I think one of the biggest differences two camps on here have are: those who give the staff the benefit of the doubt and those who take exception to the idea that they should be given the benefit of the doubt after 3 straight woeful seasons and a rough showing vs. URI and a D2 team to start year 4. I just so happen to fall in the latter camp. Prove your worth first, then the critiques will die out. If you keep failing with this much talent, you deserve every critique you get. May sound harsh, but remember these are grown men with fat salaries. They aren't losing any sleep over a critique on a forum. By the way, didn't UConn just run out of scholarships for Heron?[/quote]
Heron actually flirted with transferring to SJU after his freshman year and had a solid relationship with Matt for a while as I understand it. The promising roster for coming year also helped, as noted by NCJ, with attracting him this season. It was thus not surprising he opted for Johnnies and not UConn.[/quote]

The original connection to Heron was from Slice's involvement. As you recall he originally committed to Pitt. We came in too late in Mullin's first year and Bruce Pearl is an experienced closer. Matt deserves credit for staying in touch but he never made the initial connection.
 
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