Please direct all your recruiting comments, fears, doubts, concerns in this thread.
Mike Anderson - Recruiting, Coaching, Etc.
- Thread starter JohnnyFever
- Start date
I don't love the name of this thread. Now we are just perpetuating a false narrative that has been adopted by just a few perpetually disgruntled malcontents.
CMA has essentially had one recruiting class at SJU. It includes Posh and Cole; along with some promising pieces that make it a quality first class. It's been one friggin year. Can't we have a little patience? We finally have an actual basketball coach. I am willing bet this turns out better than the Lavin and Mullin eras. Let's, at least, give it the same amount of time.
CMA has essentially had one recruiting class at SJU. It includes Posh and Cole; along with some promising pieces that make it a quality first class. It's been one friggin year. Can't we have a little patience? We finally have an actual basketball coach. I am willing bet this turns out better than the Lavin and Mullin eras. Let's, at least, give it the same amount of time.
Last edited:
[quote="SJUFAN2" post=396067][quote="Mike Zaun" post=396064]If it works and we're making tourneys then of course I'd be happy and have a change of heart. But it's like hitting the same number twice in roulette vs. red or black. The red and black bets are much better odds (4 star kids) vs. having to hit numbers (3 star kids). One is more sustainable than the other. The odds are simply better which is why your pre-season ranking will be as good as your players are. It's not me feeling a certain way, it's just the model that is proven to succeed vs. the model that mostly does not succeed save for exceptions. I prefer the one that is proven to succeed which is a good coach (CMA) plus good recruiting (not proven yet).[/quote]
Except, you are wrong. Its not like roulette. His way DOES work.
CMA has a .642 winning % in his career.
He's never had a losing record in 18 seasons. Not one. Not even in his first year here.
In 17 seasons before coming here, he'd been to 9 NCAA tournaments and 3 NIT's.
The issue here isn't recruiting. It's impatience. Some of you guys just want results Today. I get it, but you aren't getting them. STJ isn't a premiere destination. Kids today look at us as irrelevant. As a Mom & Pop/bottom feeder program. The top kids aren't going to non elite programs without $$$ on the table. We've got no (recent) history to sell them, no $$ to offer, and shitty facilities (outside of the handful of games we play at MSG).
So I ask again...
Why would a top 80-100 kid want to come here when he's got offers from better schools, more successful programs, and $$$ on the table from boosters and sneaker execs?
You should probably accept that they just aren't coming here until we improve in one of those categories and move on, but you won't. Instead we'll have to hear about what you guys deem as acceptable recruiting ad nauseum, at least until the results on the court either shut you all up, or they force CMA out.
Let the man do his job. He's been fine so far and he knows a lot more about how to win basketball games and build a winning program than any of us do.[/quote]
Hammer meet head of nail....as hard as it to admit, our drought has made us into the 60 year old guy who wonders why people call him sir...pisses me off all the time
The good news is...Lavin proved you can recruit, at a high level, to SJ...unfortunately we have to start winning first
Except, you are wrong. Its not like roulette. His way DOES work.
CMA has a .642 winning % in his career.
He's never had a losing record in 18 seasons. Not one. Not even in his first year here.
In 17 seasons before coming here, he'd been to 9 NCAA tournaments and 3 NIT's.
The issue here isn't recruiting. It's impatience. Some of you guys just want results Today. I get it, but you aren't getting them. STJ isn't a premiere destination. Kids today look at us as irrelevant. As a Mom & Pop/bottom feeder program. The top kids aren't going to non elite programs without $$$ on the table. We've got no (recent) history to sell them, no $$ to offer, and shitty facilities (outside of the handful of games we play at MSG).
So I ask again...
Why would a top 80-100 kid want to come here when he's got offers from better schools, more successful programs, and $$$ on the table from boosters and sneaker execs?
You should probably accept that they just aren't coming here until we improve in one of those categories and move on, but you won't. Instead we'll have to hear about what you guys deem as acceptable recruiting ad nauseum, at least until the results on the court either shut you all up, or they force CMA out.
Let the man do his job. He's been fine so far and he knows a lot more about how to win basketball games and build a winning program than any of us do.[/quote]
Hammer meet head of nail....as hard as it to admit, our drought has made us into the 60 year old guy who wonders why people call him sir...pisses me off all the time
The good news is...Lavin proved you can recruit, at a high level, to SJ...unfortunately we have to start winning first
[quote="JohnnyFan" post=396091]I don't love the name of this thread. Now we are just perpetuating a false narrative that has been adopted by just a few perpetually disgruntled malcontents.
CMA has essentially had one recruiting class at SJU. It includes Posh and Cole; along with some promising pieces that make it a quality first class. It's been one friggin year. Can't we have a little patience? We finally have an actual basketball coach. I am willing bet this turns out better than the Lavin and Mullin eras. Let's, at least, give it the same amount of time.[/quote]
Johnny Fan
I like what you posted especially:
“We finally have an actual basketball coach“
Maybe we can have a summit like Yalta or Potsdam
( you can tell what I’ve been reading )
And
NO NORE DISCUSSION ABOUT RECRUITING UNTIL 2023-24
I so much enjoyed 2019-20
I enjoyed the staff and players
I liked how hard we played
I like how we improved at seasons end
I’m excited about the direction we are headed
I won’t repeat my prior posts where laid out Coach K and Coach Carlissimo’s early recruiting and WL
records at Duke/ Seton Hall
Let’s give it a rest and give our coach the reasonable amount of time he needs.
I’m very annoyed at myself for continuing to participate in recruiting discussion - I’ll try harder not to have SS&G included herein.
All the best guys and gals
All the best!
CMA has essentially had one recruiting class at SJU. It includes Posh and Cole; along with some promising pieces that make it a quality first class. It's been one friggin year. Can't we have a little patience? We finally have an actual basketball coach. I am willing bet this turns out better than the Lavin and Mullin eras. Let's, at least, give it the same amount of time.[/quote]
Johnny Fan
I like what you posted especially:
“We finally have an actual basketball coach“
Maybe we can have a summit like Yalta or Potsdam
( you can tell what I’ve been reading )
And
NO NORE DISCUSSION ABOUT RECRUITING UNTIL 2023-24
I so much enjoyed 2019-20
I enjoyed the staff and players
I liked how hard we played
I like how we improved at seasons end
I’m excited about the direction we are headed
I won’t repeat my prior posts where laid out Coach K and Coach Carlissimo’s early recruiting and WL
records at Duke/ Seton Hall
Let’s give it a rest and give our coach the reasonable amount of time he needs.
I’m very annoyed at myself for continuing to participate in recruiting discussion - I’ll try harder not to have SS&G included herein.
All the best guys and gals
All the best!
Guys, give me a break. It's kind of management 101 that if you make a big hire after that candidate has convinced you that their approach will work, you sit back and support them for a reasonable time before you criticize. That is particularly true when they have a proven record of success in past jobs.
Don't see why fans wouldn't take the same approach. I'd hate to work with some of the posters on this thread; just a recipe for misery.
I've been a die hard fan for almost 60 years, doesn't have squat to do with patience or impatience.
Don't see why fans wouldn't take the same approach. I'd hate to work with some of the posters on this thread; just a recipe for misery.
I've been a die hard fan for almost 60 years, doesn't have squat to do with patience or impatience.
boo haarvey
Active member
[quote="SJUFAN2" post=396087][quote="Boo Harvey" post=396085][quote="MJDinkins" post=396074][quote="SJUFAN2" post=396067][quote="Mike Zaun" post=396064]If it works and we're making tourneys then of course I'd be happy and have a change of heart. But it's like hitting the same number twice in roulette vs. red or black. The red and black bets are much better odds (4 star kids) vs. having to hit numbers (3 star kids). One is more sustainable than the other. The odds are simply better which is why your pre-season ranking will be as good as your players are. It's not me feeling a certain way, it's just the model that is proven to succeed vs. the model that mostly does not succeed save for exceptions. I prefer the one that is proven to succeed which is a good coach (CMA) plus good recruiting (not proven yet).[/quote]
Except, you are wrong. Its not like roulette. His way DOES work.
CMA has a .642 winning % in his career.
He's never had a losing record in 18 seasons. Not one. Not even in his first year here.
In 17 seasons before coming here, he'd been to 9 NCAA tournaments and 3 NIT's.
The issue here isn't recruiting. It's impatience. Some of you guys just want results Today. I get it, but you aren't getting them. STJ isn't a premiere destination. Kids today look at us as irrelevant. As a Mom & Pop/bottom feeder program. The top kids aren't going to non elite programs without $$$. We've got no history to sell them, not $$ to offer and shitty facilities (outside of the handful of games we play at MSG).
So I ask again...
Why would a top 80-100 kid want to come here when he's got offers from better schools, more successful programs, and $$$ on the table from boosters and sneaker execs?
You should probably accept that they just aren't coming here until we improve in one of those categories and move on, but you won't. Instead we'll have to hear about what you guys deem as acceptable recruiting ad nauseum, at least until the results on the court either shut you all up, or they force CMA out.
Let the man do his job. He's been fine so far and he knows a lot more about how to win basketball games and build a winning program than any of us do.[/quote]
He's the ring leader amongst a very small group (two others have joined him via this thread) who seems to always be up in arms or irked about something.[/quote]
I hate the refrain: "let the man do his job." What does that mean exactly? At what point do we have permission to be critical? Once again, nobody is suggesting CMA be fired. We are merely expressing concern with the recruiting to date.
I equally dislike the refrain, shut up bc the coach "knows a lot more about how to win basketball games and build a winning program than any of us do." If memory serves me correctly, Dink, that was your line with Lav when a number of us started to see the writing on the wall and voiced our concern. By that logic, most of us could never criticize a coach.
I appreciate that CMA has been a winner with a proven track record. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't sound the alarm bells when we recognize a problem. As you rightly point out, SJU is a tough gig. It's much easier to draw top talent at Arkansas than it is here. UAB is not comparable bc the competition is far weaker. Even Missouri was a far easier gig. As I've repeatedly said, the jury is out as to whether CMA -- who has no ties to the East Coast -- will be able to recruit effectively enough to win. There is no question that the man can coach, but that doesn't really set him apart in our league.
Finally, we face a real "chicken or the egg" conundrum. You say wee need to win before we can get top talent, but we need top talent to win. As far as the program has fallen and as much of a disaster as the previous regime was, Mullin (mostly through Matt) successfully recruited his share of four and even five star kids . See, e.g., Keita, Steere, Ponds, Simon, Figueroa, LoVett, Heron, Yakwe, and Owens. And if you want to really compare apples to apples, Mullin's second year team included the following recruits: Ponds, LoVett, Sima (solid three star recruit who folks were ecstatic about when we signed him), Yakwe, Simon, Clark, Mussini, Owens, Freudenberg, Ahmed (JUCO All American) and Elison (solid three star recruit with a top pedigree).
Now you will undoubtedly respond that a number of these recruits didn't pan out. That's not my point. There is no question Mullin's first two classes were more highly regarded than the current regime's -- I'll concede that , through no fault of his own, CMA got a very late start recruiting his first class. Also, I have little doubt that Bobby Hurley would have recruited far better had he chosen to come.
I get it that you're tired of hearing the negativity, particularly when CMA has coached only one year and overachieved in that year. All of us want to dream that CMA will some how turn it around with a host of lightly recruited "good kids" with chips on their shoulders. Is it possible? Sure. Is it likely, heck no!
I'm not so young any more and am running out of patience. Enough with the five year plans![/quote]
So 20-ish wins a year and 3 NCAA appearances over the next 5-6 seasons wouldn't good be enough for you. Got it.
And thanks for proving my point that this isn't about recruiting, its about patience. The fact that you are "tired of 5 year plans" and are "running out of patience" just proves my point. This isn't about CMA and the kids he lands. Its about you wanting what you want, right now. That's fine. You are entitled to feel that way. But again, pony up the $$$$ it takes for the facilities we need to compete and 'extra' benefits the top kids get, or you all should probably stop publicly whining about the timeline required to take to bring Lazarus back from the grave.[/quote]
Huh? I never said 20 wins a year and three ncaas over the next five or six years wouldn’t be good enough for me. Not sure where you got that. Where we apparently disagree is whether that will happen with the current recruiting trajectory. We’re picked near the bottom of the Big East this year and that is unlikely to change without an infusion of talent.
My remarks about patience and five year plans referred to our perpetual rebuilding and my frustrations. Are you familiar with Stalin’s five year plans? I’ll clue you in - - They lasted more than five years and nothing was accomplished. We’ve made two NCAAs in the last 17 years. Your point, whatever it was, is hardly proven.
Except, you are wrong. Its not like roulette. His way DOES work.
CMA has a .642 winning % in his career.
He's never had a losing record in 18 seasons. Not one. Not even in his first year here.
In 17 seasons before coming here, he'd been to 9 NCAA tournaments and 3 NIT's.
The issue here isn't recruiting. It's impatience. Some of you guys just want results Today. I get it, but you aren't getting them. STJ isn't a premiere destination. Kids today look at us as irrelevant. As a Mom & Pop/bottom feeder program. The top kids aren't going to non elite programs without $$$. We've got no history to sell them, not $$ to offer and shitty facilities (outside of the handful of games we play at MSG).
So I ask again...
Why would a top 80-100 kid want to come here when he's got offers from better schools, more successful programs, and $$$ on the table from boosters and sneaker execs?
You should probably accept that they just aren't coming here until we improve in one of those categories and move on, but you won't. Instead we'll have to hear about what you guys deem as acceptable recruiting ad nauseum, at least until the results on the court either shut you all up, or they force CMA out.
Let the man do his job. He's been fine so far and he knows a lot more about how to win basketball games and build a winning program than any of us do.[/quote]
He's the ring leader amongst a very small group (two others have joined him via this thread) who seems to always be up in arms or irked about something.[/quote]
I hate the refrain: "let the man do his job." What does that mean exactly? At what point do we have permission to be critical? Once again, nobody is suggesting CMA be fired. We are merely expressing concern with the recruiting to date.
I equally dislike the refrain, shut up bc the coach "knows a lot more about how to win basketball games and build a winning program than any of us do." If memory serves me correctly, Dink, that was your line with Lav when a number of us started to see the writing on the wall and voiced our concern. By that logic, most of us could never criticize a coach.
I appreciate that CMA has been a winner with a proven track record. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't sound the alarm bells when we recognize a problem. As you rightly point out, SJU is a tough gig. It's much easier to draw top talent at Arkansas than it is here. UAB is not comparable bc the competition is far weaker. Even Missouri was a far easier gig. As I've repeatedly said, the jury is out as to whether CMA -- who has no ties to the East Coast -- will be able to recruit effectively enough to win. There is no question that the man can coach, but that doesn't really set him apart in our league.
Finally, we face a real "chicken or the egg" conundrum. You say wee need to win before we can get top talent, but we need top talent to win. As far as the program has fallen and as much of a disaster as the previous regime was, Mullin (mostly through Matt) successfully recruited his share of four and even five star kids . See, e.g., Keita, Steere, Ponds, Simon, Figueroa, LoVett, Heron, Yakwe, and Owens. And if you want to really compare apples to apples, Mullin's second year team included the following recruits: Ponds, LoVett, Sima (solid three star recruit who folks were ecstatic about when we signed him), Yakwe, Simon, Clark, Mussini, Owens, Freudenberg, Ahmed (JUCO All American) and Elison (solid three star recruit with a top pedigree).
Now you will undoubtedly respond that a number of these recruits didn't pan out. That's not my point. There is no question Mullin's first two classes were more highly regarded than the current regime's -- I'll concede that , through no fault of his own, CMA got a very late start recruiting his first class. Also, I have little doubt that Bobby Hurley would have recruited far better had he chosen to come.
I get it that you're tired of hearing the negativity, particularly when CMA has coached only one year and overachieved in that year. All of us want to dream that CMA will some how turn it around with a host of lightly recruited "good kids" with chips on their shoulders. Is it possible? Sure. Is it likely, heck no!
I'm not so young any more and am running out of patience. Enough with the five year plans![/quote]
So 20-ish wins a year and 3 NCAA appearances over the next 5-6 seasons wouldn't good be enough for you. Got it.
And thanks for proving my point that this isn't about recruiting, its about patience. The fact that you are "tired of 5 year plans" and are "running out of patience" just proves my point. This isn't about CMA and the kids he lands. Its about you wanting what you want, right now. That's fine. You are entitled to feel that way. But again, pony up the $$$$ it takes for the facilities we need to compete and 'extra' benefits the top kids get, or you all should probably stop publicly whining about the timeline required to take to bring Lazarus back from the grave.[/quote]
Huh? I never said 20 wins a year and three ncaas over the next five or six years wouldn’t be good enough for me. Not sure where you got that. Where we apparently disagree is whether that will happen with the current recruiting trajectory. We’re picked near the bottom of the Big East this year and that is unlikely to change without an infusion of talent.
My remarks about patience and five year plans referred to our perpetual rebuilding and my frustrations. Are you familiar with Stalin’s five year plans? I’ll clue you in - - They lasted more than five years and nothing was accomplished. We’ve made two NCAAs in the last 17 years. Your point, whatever it was, is hardly proven.
[quote="Boo Harvey" post=396104][quote="SJUFAN2" post=396087][quote="Boo Harvey" post=396085][quote="MJDinkins" post=396074][quote="SJUFAN2" post=396067][quote="Mike Zaun" post=396064]If it works and we're making tourneys then of course I'd be happy and have a change of heart. But it's like hitting the same number twice in roulette vs. red or black. The red and black bets are much better odds (4 star kids) vs. having to hit numbers (3 star kids). One is more sustainable than the other. The odds are simply better which is why your pre-season ranking will be as good as your players are. It's not me feeling a certain way, it's just the model that is proven to succeed vs. the model that mostly does not succeed save for exceptions. I prefer the one that is proven to succeed which is a good coach (CMA) plus good recruiting (not proven yet).[/quote]
Except, you are wrong. Its not like roulette. His way DOES work.
CMA has a .642 winning % in his career.
He's never had a losing record in 18 seasons. Not one. Not even in his first year here.
In 17 seasons before coming here, he'd been to 9 NCAA tournaments and 3 NIT's.
The issue here isn't recruiting. It's impatience. Some of you guys just want results Today. I get it, but you aren't getting them. STJ isn't a premiere destination. Kids today look at us as irrelevant. As a Mom & Pop/bottom feeder program. The top kids aren't going to non elite programs without $$$. We've got no history to sell them, not $$ to offer and shitty facilities (outside of the handful of games we play at MSG).
So I ask again...
Why would a top 80-100 kid want to come here when he's got offers from better schools, more successful programs, and $$$ on the table from boosters and sneaker execs?
You should probably accept that they just aren't coming here until we improve in one of those categories and move on, but you won't. Instead we'll have to hear about what you guys deem as acceptable recruiting ad nauseum, at least until the results on the court either shut you all up, or they force CMA out.
Let the man do his job. He's been fine so far and he knows a lot more about how to win basketball games and build a winning program than any of us do.[/quote]
He's the ring leader amongst a very small group (two others have joined him via this thread) who seems to always be up in arms or irked about something.[/quote]
I hate the refrain: "let the man do his job." What does that mean exactly? At what point do we have permission to be critical? Once again, nobody is suggesting CMA be fired. We are merely expressing concern with the recruiting to date.
I equally dislike the refrain, shut up bc the coach "knows a lot more about how to win basketball games and build a winning program than any of us do." If memory serves me correctly, Dink, that was your line with Lav when a number of us started to see the writing on the wall and voiced our concern. By that logic, most of us could never criticize a coach.
I appreciate that CMA has been a winner with a proven track record. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't sound the alarm bells when we recognize a problem. As you rightly point out, SJU is a tough gig. It's much easier to draw top talent at Arkansas than it is here. UAB is not comparable bc the competition is far weaker. Even Missouri was a far easier gig. As I've repeatedly said, the jury is out as to whether CMA -- who has no ties to the East Coast -- will be able to recruit effectively enough to win. There is no question that the man can coach, but that doesn't really set him apart in our league.
Finally, we face a real "chicken or the egg" conundrum. You say wee need to win before we can get top talent, but we need top talent to win. As far as the program has fallen and as much of a disaster as the previous regime was, Mullin (mostly through Matt) successfully recruited his share of four and even five star kids . See, e.g., Keita, Steere, Ponds, Simon, Figueroa, LoVett, Heron, Yakwe, and Owens. And if you want to really compare apples to apples, Mullin's second year team included the following recruits: Ponds, LoVett, Sima (solid three star recruit who folks were ecstatic about when we signed him), Yakwe, Simon, Clark, Mussini, Owens, Freudenberg, Ahmed (JUCO All American) and Elison (solid three star recruit with a top pedigree).
Now you will undoubtedly respond that a number of these recruits didn't pan out. That's not my point. There is no question Mullin's first two classes were more highly regarded than the current regime's -- I'll concede that , through no fault of his own, CMA got a very late start recruiting his first class. Also, I have little doubt that Bobby Hurley would have recruited far better had he chosen to come.
I get it that you're tired of hearing the negativity, particularly when CMA has coached only one year and overachieved in that year. All of us want to dream that CMA will some how turn it around with a host of lightly recruited "good kids" with chips on their shoulders. Is it possible? Sure. Is it likely, heck no!
I'm not so young any more and am running out of patience. Enough with the five year plans![/quote]
So 20-ish wins a year and 3 NCAA appearances over the next 5-6 seasons wouldn't good be enough for you. Got it.
And thanks for proving my point that this isn't about recruiting, its about patience. The fact that you are "tired of 5 year plans" and are "running out of patience" just proves my point. This isn't about CMA and the kids he lands. Its about you wanting what you want, right now. That's fine. You are entitled to feel that way. But again, pony up the $$$$ it takes for the facilities we need to compete and 'extra' benefits the top kids get, or you all should probably stop publicly whining about the timeline required to take to bring Lazarus back from the grave.[/quote]
Huh? I never said 20 wins a year and three ncaas over the next five or six years wouldn’t be good enough for me. Not sure where you got that. Where we apparently disagree is whether that will happen with the current recruiting trajectory. We’re picked near the bottom of the Big East this year and that is unlikely to change without an infusion of talent.
My remarks about patience and five year plans referred to our perpetual rebuilding and my frustrations. Are you familiar with Stalin’s five year plans? I’ll clue you in - - They lasted more than five years and nothing was accomplished. We’ve made two NCAAs in the last 17 years. Your point, whatever it was, is hardly proven.[/quote]
Our last three coaches, I need not remind you, Norm never had a Division 1 Head Coaching job and had a terrible loosing record in Division 3, Lavin was let go from UCLA and had been out of coaching for 6 years and Mullin had never been a head coach at any level. Those 3 are a very far cry from CMA who has been a head coach at 4 schools now , has never had a loosing record in all that time, one of only 4 such coaches, has a proven system and runs a clean upright ship where the inmates don’t run the system.
Has his recruiting been great to date no it has not been, has it been poor no it has not been poor at all. As an Arkansas poster correctly pointed out his recruiting is not sexy but from where I sit it is solid for sure with good kids and at the positions we need.
Except, you are wrong. Its not like roulette. His way DOES work.
CMA has a .642 winning % in his career.
He's never had a losing record in 18 seasons. Not one. Not even in his first year here.
In 17 seasons before coming here, he'd been to 9 NCAA tournaments and 3 NIT's.
The issue here isn't recruiting. It's impatience. Some of you guys just want results Today. I get it, but you aren't getting them. STJ isn't a premiere destination. Kids today look at us as irrelevant. As a Mom & Pop/bottom feeder program. The top kids aren't going to non elite programs without $$$. We've got no history to sell them, not $$ to offer and shitty facilities (outside of the handful of games we play at MSG).
So I ask again...
Why would a top 80-100 kid want to come here when he's got offers from better schools, more successful programs, and $$$ on the table from boosters and sneaker execs?
You should probably accept that they just aren't coming here until we improve in one of those categories and move on, but you won't. Instead we'll have to hear about what you guys deem as acceptable recruiting ad nauseum, at least until the results on the court either shut you all up, or they force CMA out.
Let the man do his job. He's been fine so far and he knows a lot more about how to win basketball games and build a winning program than any of us do.[/quote]
He's the ring leader amongst a very small group (two others have joined him via this thread) who seems to always be up in arms or irked about something.[/quote]
I hate the refrain: "let the man do his job." What does that mean exactly? At what point do we have permission to be critical? Once again, nobody is suggesting CMA be fired. We are merely expressing concern with the recruiting to date.
I equally dislike the refrain, shut up bc the coach "knows a lot more about how to win basketball games and build a winning program than any of us do." If memory serves me correctly, Dink, that was your line with Lav when a number of us started to see the writing on the wall and voiced our concern. By that logic, most of us could never criticize a coach.
I appreciate that CMA has been a winner with a proven track record. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't sound the alarm bells when we recognize a problem. As you rightly point out, SJU is a tough gig. It's much easier to draw top talent at Arkansas than it is here. UAB is not comparable bc the competition is far weaker. Even Missouri was a far easier gig. As I've repeatedly said, the jury is out as to whether CMA -- who has no ties to the East Coast -- will be able to recruit effectively enough to win. There is no question that the man can coach, but that doesn't really set him apart in our league.
Finally, we face a real "chicken or the egg" conundrum. You say wee need to win before we can get top talent, but we need top talent to win. As far as the program has fallen and as much of a disaster as the previous regime was, Mullin (mostly through Matt) successfully recruited his share of four and even five star kids . See, e.g., Keita, Steere, Ponds, Simon, Figueroa, LoVett, Heron, Yakwe, and Owens. And if you want to really compare apples to apples, Mullin's second year team included the following recruits: Ponds, LoVett, Sima (solid three star recruit who folks were ecstatic about when we signed him), Yakwe, Simon, Clark, Mussini, Owens, Freudenberg, Ahmed (JUCO All American) and Elison (solid three star recruit with a top pedigree).
Now you will undoubtedly respond that a number of these recruits didn't pan out. That's not my point. There is no question Mullin's first two classes were more highly regarded than the current regime's -- I'll concede that , through no fault of his own, CMA got a very late start recruiting his first class. Also, I have little doubt that Bobby Hurley would have recruited far better had he chosen to come.
I get it that you're tired of hearing the negativity, particularly when CMA has coached only one year and overachieved in that year. All of us want to dream that CMA will some how turn it around with a host of lightly recruited "good kids" with chips on their shoulders. Is it possible? Sure. Is it likely, heck no!
I'm not so young any more and am running out of patience. Enough with the five year plans![/quote]
So 20-ish wins a year and 3 NCAA appearances over the next 5-6 seasons wouldn't good be enough for you. Got it.
And thanks for proving my point that this isn't about recruiting, its about patience. The fact that you are "tired of 5 year plans" and are "running out of patience" just proves my point. This isn't about CMA and the kids he lands. Its about you wanting what you want, right now. That's fine. You are entitled to feel that way. But again, pony up the $$$$ it takes for the facilities we need to compete and 'extra' benefits the top kids get, or you all should probably stop publicly whining about the timeline required to take to bring Lazarus back from the grave.[/quote]
Huh? I never said 20 wins a year and three ncaas over the next five or six years wouldn’t be good enough for me. Not sure where you got that. Where we apparently disagree is whether that will happen with the current recruiting trajectory. We’re picked near the bottom of the Big East this year and that is unlikely to change without an infusion of talent.
My remarks about patience and five year plans referred to our perpetual rebuilding and my frustrations. Are you familiar with Stalin’s five year plans? I’ll clue you in - - They lasted more than five years and nothing was accomplished. We’ve made two NCAAs in the last 17 years. Your point, whatever it was, is hardly proven.[/quote]
Our last three coaches, I need not remind you, Norm never had a Division 1 Head Coaching job and had a terrible loosing record in Division 3, Lavin was let go from UCLA and had been out of coaching for 6 years and Mullin had never been a head coach at any level. Those 3 are a very far cry from CMA who has been a head coach at 4 schools now , has never had a loosing record in all that time, one of only 4 such coaches, has a proven system and runs a clean upright ship where the inmates don’t run the system.
Has his recruiting been great to date no it has not been, has it been poor no it has not been poor at all. As an Arkansas poster correctly pointed out his recruiting is not sexy but from where I sit it is solid for sure with good kids and at the positions we need.
[quote="Boo Harvey" post=396104]
Huh? I never said 20 wins a year and three ncaas over the next five or six years wouldn’t be good enough for me. Not sure where you got that.[/quote]
Sure you did. And you repeat it every time you complain about his recruiting.
CMA wins about 20 games a season on average.
He's gone to the NCAA tournament in more than 50% of the seasons he's been a HC anywhere.
He's done all that with this system and with this level of recruiting including in the SEC.
There is absolutely no reason to think he won't have similar results in the new BE. None. That means 3 NCAA trips in 5 or 6 years.
So every time you complain his recruiting isn't good enough you are saying that what he's done through his career isn't good enough.
Huh? I never said 20 wins a year and three ncaas over the next five or six years wouldn’t be good enough for me. Not sure where you got that.[/quote]
Sure you did. And you repeat it every time you complain about his recruiting.
CMA wins about 20 games a season on average.
He's gone to the NCAA tournament in more than 50% of the seasons he's been a HC anywhere.
He's done all that with this system and with this level of recruiting including in the SEC.
There is absolutely no reason to think he won't have similar results in the new BE. None. That means 3 NCAA trips in 5 or 6 years.
So every time you complain his recruiting isn't good enough you are saying that what he's done through his career isn't good enough.
boo haarvey
Active member
[quote="SJUFAN2" post=396107][quote="Boo Harvey" post=396104]
Huh? I never said 20 wins a year and three ncaas over the next five or six years wouldn’t be good enough for me. Not sure where you got that.[/quote]
There is absolutely no reason to think he won't have similar results in the new BE. None. That means 3 NCAA trips in 5 or 6 years.
So every time you complain his recruiting isn't good enough you are saying that what he's done through his career isn't good enough.[/quote]
I‘m going to take a wild guess that the irony of the situation has escaped you. I’ll enlighten you. You criticize me for repeatedly complaining yet you’ve purposely chosen to click on this topic to read and respond to my posts. Put simply, you’re enabling me. If guys like you didn’t respond, I’d have nothing, or at least far less to say on the subject.
As to the substance of your post, it’s so devoid of logic it doesn’t warrant a response. I quoted two of your particularly absurd statements above.
Huh? I never said 20 wins a year and three ncaas over the next five or six years wouldn’t be good enough for me. Not sure where you got that.[/quote]
There is absolutely no reason to think he won't have similar results in the new BE. None. That means 3 NCAA trips in 5 or 6 years.
So every time you complain his recruiting isn't good enough you are saying that what he's done through his career isn't good enough.[/quote]
I‘m going to take a wild guess that the irony of the situation has escaped you. I’ll enlighten you. You criticize me for repeatedly complaining yet you’ve purposely chosen to click on this topic to read and respond to my posts. Put simply, you’re enabling me. If guys like you didn’t respond, I’d have nothing, or at least far less to say on the subject.
As to the substance of your post, it’s so devoid of logic it doesn’t warrant a response. I quoted two of your particularly absurd statements above.
Last edited:
[quote="Boo Harvey" post=396108][quote="SJUFAN2" post=396107][quote="Boo Harvey" post=396104]
Huh? I never said 20 wins a year and three ncaas over the next five or six years wouldn’t be good enough for me. Not sure where you got that.[/quote]
There is absolutely no reason to think he won't have similar results in the new BE. None. That means 3 NCAA trips in 5 or 6 years.
So every time you complain his recruiting isn't good enough you are saying that what he's done through his career isn't good enough.[/quote]
I‘m going to take a wild guess that the irony of the situation has escaped you. I’ll enlighten you. You criticize me for repeatedly complaining yet you’ve purposely chosen to click on this topic to read and respond to my posts. Put simply, you’re enabling me. If guys like you didn’t respond, I’d have nothing, or at least far less to say on the subject.
As to the substance of your post, it’s so devoid of logic it doesn’t warrant a response. I quoted two of your particularly absurd statements above.[/quote]
Sorry Boo but all this transpired in the Applewhite recruiting thread and had to be moved. That is what occurred. We may have a good shot at the kid, we may not. As Paultzman has always correctly preached recruiting is fluid so I will wait until the kid makes his choice. But we had 50 posts about the kid and the last 60 were about CMAs recruiting ability, or lack thereof as some see it and feel the need to bring up and enter their concerns in each and every thread. That is exactly what transpired. Unfortunately a new topic was created in order that every attempt to derail a recruiting thread, or to raise personal concerns that don’t belong in a thread about a particular recruit do not have to contaminate that thread. And the need to respond is a two way street. If you didn’t raise your concerns no one would be responding to them.
For the record, I have serious concerns about one of our staff members. But to bring it up constantly after they are on the job 14 months and have exceeded expectations on the court is far too premature in my eyes. So there you have it, I don’t believe all is perfect with one of our staff members.
Huh? I never said 20 wins a year and three ncaas over the next five or six years wouldn’t be good enough for me. Not sure where you got that.[/quote]
There is absolutely no reason to think he won't have similar results in the new BE. None. That means 3 NCAA trips in 5 or 6 years.
So every time you complain his recruiting isn't good enough you are saying that what he's done through his career isn't good enough.[/quote]
I‘m going to take a wild guess that the irony of the situation has escaped you. I’ll enlighten you. You criticize me for repeatedly complaining yet you’ve purposely chosen to click on this topic to read and respond to my posts. Put simply, you’re enabling me. If guys like you didn’t respond, I’d have nothing, or at least far less to say on the subject.
As to the substance of your post, it’s so devoid of logic it doesn’t warrant a response. I quoted two of your particularly absurd statements above.[/quote]
Sorry Boo but all this transpired in the Applewhite recruiting thread and had to be moved. That is what occurred. We may have a good shot at the kid, we may not. As Paultzman has always correctly preached recruiting is fluid so I will wait until the kid makes his choice. But we had 50 posts about the kid and the last 60 were about CMAs recruiting ability, or lack thereof as some see it and feel the need to bring up and enter their concerns in each and every thread. That is exactly what transpired. Unfortunately a new topic was created in order that every attempt to derail a recruiting thread, or to raise personal concerns that don’t belong in a thread about a particular recruit do not have to contaminate that thread. And the need to respond is a two way street. If you didn’t raise your concerns no one would be responding to them.
For the record, I have serious concerns about one of our staff members. But to bring it up constantly after they are on the job 14 months and have exceeded expectations on the court is far too premature in my eyes. So there you have it, I don’t believe all is perfect with one of our staff members.
boo haarvey
Active member
[quote="redmannorth" post=396109][quote="Boo Harvey" post=396108][quote="SJUFAN2" post=396107][quote="Boo Harvey" post=396104]
Huh? I never said 20 wins a year and three ncaas over the next five or six years wouldn’t be good enough for me. Not sure where you got that.[/quote]
There is absolutely no reason to think he won't have similar results in the new BE. None. That means 3 NCAA trips in 5 or 6 years.
So every time you complain his recruiting isn't good enough you are saying that what he's done through his career isn't good enough.[/quote]
I‘m going to take a wild guess that the irony of the situation has escaped you. I’ll enlighten you. You criticize me for repeatedly complaining yet you’ve purposely chosen to click on this topic to read and respond to my posts. Put simply, you’re enabling me. If guys like you didn’t respond, I’d have nothing, or at least far less to say on the subject.
As to the substance of your post, it’s so devoid of logic it doesn’t warrant a response. I quoted two of your particularly absurd statements above.[/quote]
Sorry Boo but all this transpired in the Applewhite recruiting thread and had to be moved. That is what occurred. We may have a good shot at the kid, we may not. As Paultzman has always correctly preached recruiting is fluid so I will wait until the kid makes his choice. But we had 50 posts about the kid and the last 60 were about CMAs recruiting ability, or lack thereof as some see it and feel the need to bring up and enter their concerns in each and every thread. That is exactly what transpired. Unfortunately a new topic was created in order that every attempt to derail a recruiting thread, or to raise personal concerns that don’t belong in a thread about a particular recruit do not have to contaminate that thread. And the need to respond is a two way street. If you didn’t raise your concerns no one would be responding to them.
For the record, I have serious concerns about one of our staff members. But to bring it up constantly after they are on the job 14 months and have exceeded expectations on the court is far too premature in my eyes. So there you have it, I don’t believe all is perfect with one of our staff members.[/quote]
Fair analysis and welcome your opinion. The poster who I was addressing responded to my post after this topic had been created. But that’s semantics. Fact is this is a message board and I’m stating my opinion. Others are free to disagree.
But more importantly, I’m intrigued who on the staff has given you serious concerns and why. I respect if you may want to keep it confidential, but feel free to pm me if you want to discuss.
Huh? I never said 20 wins a year and three ncaas over the next five or six years wouldn’t be good enough for me. Not sure where you got that.[/quote]
There is absolutely no reason to think he won't have similar results in the new BE. None. That means 3 NCAA trips in 5 or 6 years.
So every time you complain his recruiting isn't good enough you are saying that what he's done through his career isn't good enough.[/quote]
I‘m going to take a wild guess that the irony of the situation has escaped you. I’ll enlighten you. You criticize me for repeatedly complaining yet you’ve purposely chosen to click on this topic to read and respond to my posts. Put simply, you’re enabling me. If guys like you didn’t respond, I’d have nothing, or at least far less to say on the subject.
As to the substance of your post, it’s so devoid of logic it doesn’t warrant a response. I quoted two of your particularly absurd statements above.[/quote]
Sorry Boo but all this transpired in the Applewhite recruiting thread and had to be moved. That is what occurred. We may have a good shot at the kid, we may not. As Paultzman has always correctly preached recruiting is fluid so I will wait until the kid makes his choice. But we had 50 posts about the kid and the last 60 were about CMAs recruiting ability, or lack thereof as some see it and feel the need to bring up and enter their concerns in each and every thread. That is exactly what transpired. Unfortunately a new topic was created in order that every attempt to derail a recruiting thread, or to raise personal concerns that don’t belong in a thread about a particular recruit do not have to contaminate that thread. And the need to respond is a two way street. If you didn’t raise your concerns no one would be responding to them.
For the record, I have serious concerns about one of our staff members. But to bring it up constantly after they are on the job 14 months and have exceeded expectations on the court is far too premature in my eyes. So there you have it, I don’t believe all is perfect with one of our staff members.[/quote]
Fair analysis and welcome your opinion. The poster who I was addressing responded to my post after this topic had been created. But that’s semantics. Fact is this is a message board and I’m stating my opinion. Others are free to disagree.
But more importantly, I’m intrigued who on the staff has given you serious concerns and why. I respect if you may want to keep it confidential, but feel free to pm me if you want to discuss.
Guys lets not pretend that this has not been going on for over 30 years. I was at molloy and everyone would complain about the tobacco road connection and why wouldn't new york kids stay in ny.. It has only gotten worse with prep schools, handlers and sneaker influences. Throw in that we are a catholic school and don't give under the table payments and being in NY is not an advantage. So what does CMA have to sell?
1) Sense of family and team
2) A guarantee that players will be coached .
3) an opportunity to show off their skills in the big east.
4) Some success in getting plays to pro ball
5) an emphasis on getting a degree (may be a con to some)
So we have a coach with integrity that will take 3 stars and get the most out of them. Many will not come here due to lack of cash, lack of coddling or lack of tv exposure (what espn did with the breaking up of the big east should be criminal) For me we will survive and I will watch the kids grow. I know they will give max effort and heart and over the next 5 years we will get a top 50 kid. It wont be a pipeline but we will get that guy that will be fun to watch, just don't expect one every year.
1) Sense of family and team
2) A guarantee that players will be coached .
3) an opportunity to show off their skills in the big east.
4) Some success in getting plays to pro ball
5) an emphasis on getting a degree (may be a con to some)
So we have a coach with integrity that will take 3 stars and get the most out of them. Many will not come here due to lack of cash, lack of coddling or lack of tv exposure (what espn did with the breaking up of the big east should be criminal) For me we will survive and I will watch the kids grow. I know they will give max effort and heart and over the next 5 years we will get a top 50 kid. It wont be a pipeline but we will get that guy that will be fun to watch, just don't expect one every year.
JohnnyFever
Active member
Harvey correctly states that we are not allowed to ever criticize coaches under any circumstance on here it seems until we wait 3 years minimum. Not one of us said he loves kicking puppies but it's as if we did with the responses. Only one side is angry and it's not ours. Why do so many get so angry over us rightfully criticizing over recruiting? This is a fan forum...we can pretend all we like that everything is great but facts are facts. Pundits don't expect anything from us anymore. Right now we simply suck at recruiting. Don't give me the "it's impossible to recruit here" shtick. Lavin and Mullin proved it's wrong. Lavin had a 5* Jordan and got so many 4* kids he couldn't even find enough PT for all of them. Mullin (Matt A) got 4* Ponds, 5* Simon, 4* Clark, 4* Lovett.
No one was ever asking for 5* kids so not sure why that was brought up. All I'd ask for is the bare minimum in the Big East for every other team. Mostly 3* guys surrounded by the occasional stud 4* recruit or two. That's it. That's what every other program in our conference gets regularly if not better. There are about 3 or 4 of us willing to admit this and about 20 others essentially telling us to shut up and pretend it's not a real problem. An Arkansas fan just said this has been a big concern for much of his career. Obviously all of us want him to succeed badly. But if you can't recruit you can't compete seriously in a league this tough. Simple as that. He will have plenty of chances to shut us up, but for now in this moment, we are right.
If what so many are saying was true about recruit rankings not mattering, Rivals and all those sites would not be functioning. Why would they exist? Why would pundits discuss it so much? Why would the best teams want the 4-5 star players? If it truly didn't matter there would be zero attention given to it.
No one was ever asking for 5* kids so not sure why that was brought up. All I'd ask for is the bare minimum in the Big East for every other team. Mostly 3* guys surrounded by the occasional stud 4* recruit or two. That's it. That's what every other program in our conference gets regularly if not better. There are about 3 or 4 of us willing to admit this and about 20 others essentially telling us to shut up and pretend it's not a real problem. An Arkansas fan just said this has been a big concern for much of his career. Obviously all of us want him to succeed badly. But if you can't recruit you can't compete seriously in a league this tough. Simple as that. He will have plenty of chances to shut us up, but for now in this moment, we are right.
If what so many are saying was true about recruit rankings not mattering, Rivals and all those sites would not be functioning. Why would they exist? Why would pundits discuss it so much? Why would the best teams want the 4-5 star players? If it truly didn't matter there would be zero attention given to it.
Last edited:
PharmDJohnnie11
Member
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=396113]Harvey correctly states that we are not allowed to ever criticize coaches under any circumstance on here it seems until we wait 3 years minimum. Not one of us said he loves kicking puppies but it's as if we did with the responses. Only one side is angry and it's not ours. Why do so many get so angry over us rightfully criticizing over recruiting? This is a fan forum...we can pretend all we like that everything is great but facts are facts. Pundits don't expect anything from us anymore. Right now we simply suck at recruiting. Don't give me the "it's impossible to recruit here" shtick. Lavin and Mullin proved it's wrong. Lavin had a 5* Jordan and got so many 4* kids he couldn't even find enough PT for all of them. Mullin (Matt A) got 4* Ponds, 5* Simon, 4* Clark, 4* Lovett.
No one was ever asking for 5* kids so not sure why that was brought up. All I'd ask for is the bare minimum in the Big East for every other team. Mostly 3* guys surrounded by the occasional stud 4* recruit or two. That's it. That's what every other program in our conference gets regularly if not better. There are about 3 or 4 of us willing to admit this and about 20 others essentially telling us to shut up and pretend it's not a real problem. An Arkansas fan just said this has been a big concern for much of his career. Obviously all of us want him to succeed badly. But if you can't recruit you can't compete seriously in a league this tough. Simple as that. He will have plenty of chances to shut us up, but for now in this moment, we are right.
If what so many are saying was true about recruit rankings not mattering, Rivals and all those sites would not be functioning. Why would they exist? Why would pundits discuss it so much? Why would the best teams want the 4-5 star players? If it truly didn't matter there would be zero attention given to it.[/quote]
It is very frustrating having to feel like a pariah on this board just for pointing out the obvious. I don't know if people actually think the few of us who voiced our concerns about the CMA era, so far, are rooting against him, or have something against CMA personally because we don't. I'd like nothing more than for him to be successful here, but I can almost guarantee you he won't be if the recruiting doesn't pick up big time.
No one was ever asking for 5* kids so not sure why that was brought up. All I'd ask for is the bare minimum in the Big East for every other team. Mostly 3* guys surrounded by the occasional stud 4* recruit or two. That's it. That's what every other program in our conference gets regularly if not better. There are about 3 or 4 of us willing to admit this and about 20 others essentially telling us to shut up and pretend it's not a real problem. An Arkansas fan just said this has been a big concern for much of his career. Obviously all of us want him to succeed badly. But if you can't recruit you can't compete seriously in a league this tough. Simple as that. He will have plenty of chances to shut us up, but for now in this moment, we are right.
If what so many are saying was true about recruit rankings not mattering, Rivals and all those sites would not be functioning. Why would they exist? Why would pundits discuss it so much? Why would the best teams want the 4-5 star players? If it truly didn't matter there would be zero attention given to it.[/quote]
It is very frustrating having to feel like a pariah on this board just for pointing out the obvious. I don't know if people actually think the few of us who voiced our concerns about the CMA era, so far, are rooting against him, or have something against CMA personally because we don't. I'd like nothing more than for him to be successful here, but I can almost guarantee you he won't be if the recruiting doesn't pick up big time.
Last edited:
Nobody is saying not to complain IF and WHEN the time calls for it. How can you 3 think now is really that time?? It’s really about you want to be on the I told you so first haha side of things. I hope once he “proves” himself with success to you fellas you lighten up.
Last edited:
QueensBall
Member
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=396113]Harvey correctly states that we are not allowed to ever criticize coaches under any circumstance on here it seems until we wait 3 years minimum. Not one of us said he loves kicking puppies but it's as if we did with the responses. Only one side is angry and it's not ours. Why do so many get so angry over us rightfully criticizing over recruiting? This is a fan forum...we can pretend all we like that everything is great but facts are facts. Pundits don't expect anything from us anymore. Right now we simply suck at recruiting. Don't give me the "it's impossible to recruit here" shtick. Lavin and Mullin proved it's wrong. Lavin had a 5* Jordan and got so many 4* kids he couldn't even find enough PT for all of them. Mullin (Matt A) got 4* Ponds, 5* Simon, 4* Clark, 4* Lovett.
No one was ever asking for 5* kids so not sure why that was brought up. All I'd ask for is the bare minimum in the Big East for every other team. Mostly 3* guys surrounded by the occasional stud 4* recruit or two. That's it. That's what every other program in our conference gets regularly if not better. There are about 3 or 4 of us willing to admit this and about 20 others essentially telling us to shut up and pretend it's not a real problem. An Arkansas fan just said this has been a big concern for much of his career. Obviously all of us want him to succeed badly. But if you can't recruit you can't compete seriously in a league this tough. Simple as that. He will have plenty of chances to shut us up, but for now in this moment, we are right.
If what so many are saying was true about recruit rankings not mattering, Rivals and all those sites would not be functioning. Why would they exist? Why would pundits discuss it so much? Why would the best teams want the 4-5 star players? If it truly didn't matter there would be zero attention given to it.[/quote]
You really think you're not allowed to criticize the coach? Really? You think that's REALLY why people get annoyed? People talk recruiting and express their concerns or disappointments all the time here. A month ago the entire board was critical of the staff for losing Riley to Georgetown so I don't think it's as simple as people being upset because you're being critical. You've gotta read the room a little bit.
I can only speak for myself but I actually have no problem with you being critical of recruiting. I might even share some of your concerns if you ever got more specific than turning every recruiting discussion into what essentially boils down to, "This guy doesn't have enough stars." or " this guy has too many stars, Anderson can't get him." Every recruiting thread is the exact same complaint.
It's like we all went to a taco place and you won't stop hijacking every conversation to complain that we're not at a steakhouse. Nobody is saying that steak is bad. We'd all love steak. Nobody is annoyed because you think steak would be nice. We're annoyed because sometimes tacos actually are awesome but whenever someone tries to have that conversation you say that getting tacos is pointless and the only way to enjoy this meal is if we were eating steak. It's just sort of being a wet blanket and it's also annoying that you keep insisting steak is the only way to have an enjoyable meal. A great taco beats a disappointing steak. We all want steak but if it's not on the menu, let's still try to have a good meal.
Sorry for all the analogies but we're at the point where enough people are saying the same thing over and over that I'm trying a new approach.
No one was ever asking for 5* kids so not sure why that was brought up. All I'd ask for is the bare minimum in the Big East for every other team. Mostly 3* guys surrounded by the occasional stud 4* recruit or two. That's it. That's what every other program in our conference gets regularly if not better. There are about 3 or 4 of us willing to admit this and about 20 others essentially telling us to shut up and pretend it's not a real problem. An Arkansas fan just said this has been a big concern for much of his career. Obviously all of us want him to succeed badly. But if you can't recruit you can't compete seriously in a league this tough. Simple as that. He will have plenty of chances to shut us up, but for now in this moment, we are right.
If what so many are saying was true about recruit rankings not mattering, Rivals and all those sites would not be functioning. Why would they exist? Why would pundits discuss it so much? Why would the best teams want the 4-5 star players? If it truly didn't matter there would be zero attention given to it.[/quote]
You really think you're not allowed to criticize the coach? Really? You think that's REALLY why people get annoyed? People talk recruiting and express their concerns or disappointments all the time here. A month ago the entire board was critical of the staff for losing Riley to Georgetown so I don't think it's as simple as people being upset because you're being critical. You've gotta read the room a little bit.
I can only speak for myself but I actually have no problem with you being critical of recruiting. I might even share some of your concerns if you ever got more specific than turning every recruiting discussion into what essentially boils down to, "This guy doesn't have enough stars." or " this guy has too many stars, Anderson can't get him." Every recruiting thread is the exact same complaint.
It's like we all went to a taco place and you won't stop hijacking every conversation to complain that we're not at a steakhouse. Nobody is saying that steak is bad. We'd all love steak. Nobody is annoyed because you think steak would be nice. We're annoyed because sometimes tacos actually are awesome but whenever someone tries to have that conversation you say that getting tacos is pointless and the only way to enjoy this meal is if we were eating steak. It's just sort of being a wet blanket and it's also annoying that you keep insisting steak is the only way to have an enjoyable meal. A great taco beats a disappointing steak. We all want steak but if it's not on the menu, let's still try to have a good meal.
Sorry for all the analogies but we're at the point where enough people are saying the same thing over and over that I'm trying a new approach.
beast of the east
Active member
Being concerned about recruiting is certainly permissible. I've posted before that friends and business associates in both Missouri and Arkansas had agreed that Anderson is a very good coach but not a great recruiter.
While Anderson may not be the silver tongue recruiter like many well-known guys, I think he knows how to construct a roster to his playing style, and has recruited size (which is more difficult of course) and speed. Still we will need some bonafide top level talent who can shoot and score in order to break through to the upper part of the Big East. Some of you believe that we will challenge this season, but I am not convinced.
In the meantime, to me the only reasonable doubt about Anderson is whether or not he can recruit with the like of Villanova and maybe even UCONN on a consistent basis. Villanova is a heavy lift because Jay Wright has built an iconic program and is easily a HOF coach, but the next level down is a reasonable goal.
While Anderson may not be the silver tongue recruiter like many well-known guys, I think he knows how to construct a roster to his playing style, and has recruited size (which is more difficult of course) and speed. Still we will need some bonafide top level talent who can shoot and score in order to break through to the upper part of the Big East. Some of you believe that we will challenge this season, but I am not convinced.
In the meantime, to me the only reasonable doubt about Anderson is whether or not he can recruit with the like of Villanova and maybe even UCONN on a consistent basis. Villanova is a heavy lift because Jay Wright has built an iconic program and is easily a HOF coach, but the next level down is a reasonable goal.
Mullins Revenge
Well-known member
Is he not good at recruiting or is the system that hes married to turning the kids away? I cant see these kids not wanting to play for the coach/man mike anderson. I can see them saying, “I dont want to run like hell and play full court d for the next 4 years. And have to share the ball on offense and not be showcased.”
I guess it doesnt matter cause he will never change the system.
I guess it doesnt matter cause he will never change the system.