Mike Anderson - Recruiting, Coaching, Etc.

I know for a fact that Jordan Riley did not come here because he was not guaranteed playing time. Which I totally respect out of Anderson.

I just don't get why a lot of posters on here get so offended when other posters critique the recruiting that has transpired since Anderson has come aboard. Facts are the facts. Most try to twist it and give so many excuses as to why we got a kid ranked 200-350. This is a St. John's basketball message board correct? A lot to do with college basketball is recruiting correct? Thats why people post about it. I respect everything Anderson has done as a coach prior to coming here but, that means nothing to me now. Its about what he does here, and because we have gone through such terrible years in the past with lack of consistent winning I want to be proven otherwise. Thats why a lot of us are skeptical and not praising his every move. He will need 4* guys to get "over the top." Coach K used to get high character kids all the time until the game changed to one and done and look how he changed with he times. Sometimes you have to compromise a little when recruited higher level talent.
 
[quote="TheArtest15" post=401650]I know for a fact that Jordan Riley did not come here because he was not guaranteed playing time. Which I totally respect out of Anderson.

I just don't get why a lot of posters on here get so offended when other posters critique the recruiting that has transpired since Anderson has come aboard. Facts are the facts. Most try to twist it and give so many excuses as to why we got a kid ranked 200-350. This is a St. John's basketball message board correct? A lot to do with college basketball is recruiting correct? Thats why people post about it. I respect everything Anderson has done as a coach prior to coming here but, that means nothing to me now. Its about what he does here, and because we have gone through such terrible years in the past with lack of consistent winning I want to be proven otherwise. Thats why a lot of us are skeptical and not praising his every move. He will need 4* guys to get "over the top." Coach K used to get high character kids all the time until the game changed to one and done and look how he changed with he times. Sometimes you have to compromise a little when recruited higher level talent.[/quote]

I'm just speculating here, but maybe CMA's assessment of Riley's talents were just a tad bit different then camp Riley's assessment. Because I have to believe that if Riley was all that, CMA would have worked it out. Just like if Cuffe Jr wants to come here, I can't imagine PT will be an obstacle. In fact, my guess is that it's already been discussed or we wouldn't be in his final 6.
 
[quote="TheArtest15" post=401650]I know for a fact that Jordan Riley did not come here because he was not guaranteed playing time. Which I totally respect out of Anderson.

I just don't get why a lot of posters on here get so offended when other posters critique the recruiting that has transpired since Anderson has come aboard. Facts are the facts. Most try to twist it and give so many excuses as to why we got a kid ranked 200-350. This is a St. John's basketball message board correct? A lot to do with college basketball is recruiting correct? Thats why people post about it. I respect everything Anderson has done as a coach prior to coming here but, that means nothing to me now. Its about what he does here, and because we have gone through such terrible years in the past with lack of consistent winning I want to be proven otherwise. Thats why a lot of us are skeptical and not praising his every move. He will need 4* guys to get "over the top." Coach K used to get high character kids all the time until the game changed to one and done and look how he changed with he times. Sometimes you have to compromise a little when recruited higher level talent.[/quote]

And this is EXACTLY why we are going to have a challenge at times attracting 4 and 5 star talent under CMA. You just proved the point others made earlier in this thread.

But the other point is, who could we have expected to come here and do a better job, realistically? Just hope for the best.
 
[quote="TheArtest15" post=401534]I think Paultzman had a great post before and I agreed with everything he said. I for one am a realest. I feel like so many posters on here get offended if we speak out against CMAs recruiting. I don't get why? He recruiting so far has been poor. There are a lot of excuses, as listed in posts above: perfect fit for the system, seems like a hard nose player, CMA must have seen something in him, hope he develops a lot under CMA, oh the other program got this 4 or 5 star recruit that we were in on because they have deep pockets and are cheating.....its ridiculous. Everyone seems to agree that CMA is good at developing. So why can't we all agree how much better we would be if he had some 4 star or maybe even better recruits to develop in his system. Don't you think that these more talented kids may put us over the top? Everyone keeps raving about the winning season last year where we went 5-13 in conference. Ive stated that I've seen Pinzon play and he is a very solid good player but he is definitely not a 4 star recruit yet based on his junior year. He could make strides if his senior year happens but not there yet.

Also, to be honest I think Anderson may be part of the problem with recruiting. I know many of you probably won't agree with this but......I feel like top ranked and talented kids really do not want to play in this sort of system now a days. 4-5 star kids don't want to go to a program that really focuses on defense over offense this much. They want to showcase their skills and not be so system oriented. If i were a very good 4-5 star kid I wouldn't want to commit to a program that relies on playing 10 players and some games my minutes could be down based on my play. Their main goal is making the NBA and it isn't a program that really focuses on that IMO. Also I really think kids now a days are way different and CMAs system is about hard work and defense. A lot of these kids do not have that work ethic and do not want to have to earn playing time. Just my two cents[/quote]
Could be a contributing factor - right now. But, our 20 year irrelevance is probably a bigger one.

He did bring in highly rated players at Arkansas competing against programs that are much tougher recruiting competition than the BE, In the SEC, if you’re not cheating you’re not getting the players. He got his share, but more importantly had the 3rd best record during a good part of his tenure.

I still believe that if he wins here, he’ll get his share of 4 stars.
 
[quote="Section3" post=401655][quote="TheArtest15" post=401534]I think Paultzman had a great post before and I agreed with everything he said. I for one am a realest. I feel like so many posters on here get offended if we speak out against CMAs recruiting. I don't get why? He recruiting so far has been poor. There are a lot of excuses, as listed in posts above: perfect fit for the system, seems like a hard nose player, CMA must have seen something in him, hope he develops a lot under CMA, oh the other program got this 4 or 5 star recruit that we were in on because they have deep pockets and are cheating.....its ridiculous. Everyone seems to agree that CMA is good at developing. So why can't we all agree how much better we would be if he had some 4 star or maybe even better recruits to develop in his system. Don't you think that these more talented kids may put us over the top? Everyone keeps raving about the winning season last year where we went 5-13 in conference. Ive stated that I've seen Pinzon play and he is a very solid good player but he is definitely not a 4 star recruit yet based on his junior year. He could make strides if his senior year happens but not there yet.

Also, to be honest I think Anderson may be part of the problem with recruiting. I know many of you probably won't agree with this but......I feel like top ranked and talented kids really do not want to play in this sort of system now a days. 4-5 star kids don't want to go to a program that really focuses on defense over offense this much. They want to showcase their skills and not be so system oriented. If i were a very good 4-5 star kid I wouldn't want to commit to a program that relies on playing 10 players and some games my minutes could be down based on my play. Their main goal is making the NBA and it isn't a program that really focuses on that IMO. Also I really think kids now a days are way different and CMAs system is about hard work and defense. A lot of these kids do not have that work ethic and do not want to have to earn playing time. Just my two cents[/quote]
Could be a contributing factor - right now. But, our 20 year irrelevance is probably a bigger one.

He did bring in highly rated players at Arkansas competing against programs that are much tougher recruiting competition than the BE, In the SEC, if you’re not cheating you’re not getting the players. He got his share, but more importantly had the 3rd best record during a good part of his tenure.

I still believe that if he wins here, he’ll get his share of 4 stars.[/quote]

His first 2 teams at Arkansas [attachment=1690]7728B75B-10B2-4A29-9233-62EA90A956AD.jpeg[/attachment] [attachment=1691]92F182BE-DB5E-4541-996B-A6A482DA5AA4.jpeg[/attachment]

The Ark program wasn't exactly thriving when he took over for John Pelphrey.
 
[quote="Room112" post=401654][quote="TheArtest15" post=401650]I know for a fact that Jordan Riley did not come here because he was not guaranteed playing time. Which I totally respect out of Anderson.

I just don't get why a lot of posters on here get so offended when other posters critique the recruiting that has transpired since Anderson has come aboard. Facts are the facts. Most try to twist it and give so many excuses as to why we got a kid ranked 200-350. This is a St. John's basketball message board correct? A lot to do with college basketball is recruiting correct? Thats why people post about it. I respect everything Anderson has done as a coach prior to coming here but, that means nothing to me now. Its about what he does here, and because we have gone through such terrible years in the past with lack of consistent winning I want to be proven otherwise. Thats why a lot of us are skeptical and not praising his every move. He will need 4* guys to get "over the top." Coach K used to get high character kids all the time until the game changed to one and done and look how he changed with he times. Sometimes you have to compromise a little when recruited higher level talent.[/quote]

And this is EXACTLY why we are going to have a challenge at times attracting 4 and 5 star talent under CMA. You just proved the point others made earlier in this thread.

But the other point is, who could we have expected to come here and do a better job, realistically? Just hope for the best.[/quote]

I totally agree. All I'm saying is that we can be happy with who we have as a coach and also upset with the recruiting or lack there of so far. I just hate how whenever we lose recruiting battle everyone seems to say how oh they definitely paid him or he didn't fit CMAs system well enough to come here. We are all passionate and want our team to win but I feel that some have to be a little more realistic with the program here. I agree that winning will help but the past 2 prior coaches got some good talent here without winning. If we are going on CMAs successful track record wouldn't players want to come play for him because of his prior success that we all keep bringing up?Its not like he's an unproven newer coach to college basketball, kids know what they are getting with him. I just think the pundits who were nervous about his recruiting here have been correct so far. I hope that changes after we have a successful year this year.
 
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It might sound like an excuse but the 2022 class, assuming most of these guys don’t stay a fifth or sixth year in college, we lose a lot that year. We have 6 guys scheduled to graduate if they don’t transfer before then. That’s the class I’m looking at for a top 150 recruit or two. Lots of playing time available at that point. Let’s just be patient and hope we can win a decent amount until then. If CMA can be here for 10 years and make the tournament in 6 of those years, i’ll take that. I’m not unrealistic that’s the kind of success I think Mike can achieve here. Probably not good enough for some on this board and I understand that; to those fans I’d say why not root for a blue blood school?
 
It's just not true that coaches changing jobs need at least 3 years to recruit well. It's not impossible especially if you're a legit coach. Nate Oates...zero issues immediately getting top kids. Dan Hurley...zero issues (now obviously coming off a blue blood era helps). Lavin...zero issues. Mullin...zero issues. Musselman...zero issues immediately getting top kids. Travis Steele. Ed Cooley came to PC in 2011 to a bad PC team and got 6 consensus top 100 kids in his first 3 yrs. 6! Bobby Hurley at ASU. Happens all the time. Instead of making excuses like "well, CMA is simply demanding too much and these kids can't take it", why not just admit he has not done that well recruiting thus far?

Why does the blame always shift to "we are not Duke so what do you expect?", "we are a bad program", "stop being negative", "he needs at least 3 yrs before showing a pulse recruiting!", "top kids just don't want to come here", etc.

Look, we all really like CMA and think he has a fun system and is a good guy...and a good coach. But that's what makes it more frustrating. We are pulling for him so much and he does almost everything right...except recruiting is his one major blemish thus far.
 
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[quote="Mike Zaun" post=401670]It's just not true that coaches changing jobs need at least 3 years to recruit well. It's not impossible especially if you're a legit coach. Nate Oates...zero issues immediately getting top kids. Dan Hurley...zero issues (now obviously coming off a blue blood era helps). Lavin...zero issues. Mullin...zero issues. Musselman...zero issues immediately getting top kids. Travis Steele. Ed Cooley came to PC in 2011 to a bad PC team and got 6 consensus top 100 kids in his first 3 yrs. 6! Bobby Hurley at ASU. Happens all the time. Instead of making excuses like "well, CMA is simply demanding too much and these kids can't take it", why not just admit he has not done that well recruiting thus far?

Why does the blame always shift to "we are not Duke so what do you expect?", "we are a bad program", "stop being negative", "he needs at least 3 yrs before showing a pulse recruiting!", "top kids just don't want to come here", etc.

Look, we all really like CMA and think he has a fun system and is a good guy...and a good coach. But that's what makes it more frustrating. We are pulling for him so much and he does almost everything right...except recruiting is his one major blemish thus far.[/quote]

Lavin and Mullin "got kids right away" is such a loaded statement. With the benefit of hindsight, who did either of them get that really changed the trajectory of the program? Maybe there is a reason we were able to get those kids and beat out other schools for them? All I know is since I've been a st John's fan we haven't won a NCAA tournament game...
 
Why does the blame always shift to "we are not Duke so what do you expect?", "we are a bad program", "stop being negative", "he needs at least 3 yrs before showing a pulse recruiting!", "top kids just don't want to come here", etc.

It's a result of being so badly beaten down, for so many years, as a fan base,
 
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[quote="TheArtest15" post=401650]I know for a fact that Jordan Riley did not come here because he was not guaranteed playing time. Which I totally respect out of Anderson.[/quote]

I think it's strange that a top 125 player with such athleticism would be so turned off by this. Shouldn't he and everyone around him know that as long as he put the effort in, he was going to see the floor?
 
[quote="L J S A" post=401696][quote="TheArtest15" post=401650]I know for a fact that Jordan Riley did not come here because he was not guaranteed playing time. Which I totally respect out of Anderson.[/quote]

I think it's strange that a top 125 player with such athleticism would be so turned off by this. Shouldn't he and everyone around him know that as long as he put the effort in, he was going to see the floor?[/quote]
Question for Mr. Artest15-did Patrick Ewing guarantee Riley PT?
 
[quote="bamafan" post=401697][quote="L J S A" post=401696][quote="TheArtest15" post=401650]I know for a fact that Jordan Riley did not come here because he was not guaranteed playing time. Which I totally respect out of Anderson.[/quote]

I think it's strange that a top 125 player with such athleticism would be so turned off by this. Shouldn't he and everyone around him know that as long as he put the effort in, he was going to see the floor?[/quote]
Question for Mr. Artest15-did Patrick Ewing guarantee Riley PT?[/quote]

I recalled hearing Ewing promised Riley an opportunity to man the point guard position.
 
This is crazy. I remember the spring of 2019 when the whole program was in turmoil and a national laughingstock. Now it's 2020 in the midst of a pandemic and people are wondering if it's the coaches fault you can't recruit. He brought in Posh Alexander who would have been a 4⭐ recruit and this year he's brought in the two best players from NYS best team who if they had a regular summer would have probably moved up the rankings. Also look what he did with 2⭐&3⭐ players that Mullin recruited but didn't use. One other thing - isn't it nice to have a complete roster and everyone qualified without any drama.
 
[quote="Ron" post=401628][quote="Beast of the East" post=401562][quote="Monte" post=401560][quote="Anthony Mattia" post=401556]This is all really simple. There are some here who want 4 and 5 star recruits now and nothing anyone says will change their minds because this is CMAs 3rd recruiting class so he should do better.

There are others who view this as his 2nd recruiting class and see that he put a winner on the floor last year in a flash and look at his career and have some faith that he will continue to win and then get higher ranked kids, and nothing you say will change their minds either.

Bottom line is we do need better recruits, but, CMA has only coached here for 1 season. After the last 3 decades of mediocrity I am of the mindset to give a career coach with a proven track record a little more time. I know it's hard to be patient, but I am trying to be and will be rooting like crazy for coach and the kids we do get, regardless of their star rankings.[/quote]

Then there are those of us of fall somewhere in the middle. We preach patience, we trust CMA, we don't expect 4 and 5 star recruits now. etc. Yet we question closing out next year's class(barring a roster change) this early with a top 300 kid, on top of 2 top 200 kids. And we question why, on paper, next year's class doesn't seem any better then CMA's first 2 recruiting classes. Of course, the game is not played on paper, so we'll see how the kids do on the court. I remain extremely optimist.[/quote]

I felt that way (optimistic) on election night too at about 11 pm. We know how that turned out. lol[/quote]

Turned out great![/quote]

Too easy. I teed that up for you. In reality it just gives the currently reasonably happy 48% an opportunity to me miserable the next 4 years.
 
[quote="bamafan" post=401697][quote="L J S A" post=401696][quote="TheArtest15" post=401650]I know for a fact that Jordan Riley did not come here because he was not guaranteed playing time. Which I totally respect out of Anderson.[/quote]

I think it's strange that a top 125 player with such athleticism would be so turned off by this. Shouldn't he and everyone around him know that as long as he put the effort in, he was going to see the floor?[/quote]
Question for Mr. Artest15-did Patrick Ewing guarantee Riley PT?[/quote]

MjDinkins is correct from what I heard as well. This is just the information I've gotten from a friend who coached Jordan while he played for the RENS AAU. He wasn't happy on that team due to playing time and not being focused on as much because of Kuminga. Do not quite me on this but he's played for a few AAU programs. From what I hear dis that Anderson did not guarantee playing time right away,
 
[quote="wwalwyn" post=401700]This is crazy. I remember the spring of 2019 when the whole program was in turmoil and a national laughingstock. Now it's 2020 in the midst of a pandemic and people are wondering if it's the coaches fault you can't recruit. He brought in Posh Alexander who would have been a 4⭐ recruit and this year he's brought in the two best players from NYS best team who if they had a regular summer would have probably moved up the rankings. Also look what he did with 2⭐&3⭐ players that Mullin recruited but didn't use. One other thing - isn't it nice to have a complete roster and everyone qualified without any drama.[/quote]

No offense but these sound like excuses to me. How do you know that they would have move dup in the rankings? Maybe other players would have passed them or improved as well. If Bryan Trimble learned how to dribble he would have been a stud! If Chris Obekpa didn't get caught with weed we would have made the final 4. I agree that he's done well with the 2 and 3 star recruits so far. People on here get on Lavin for being lucky and getting Norms players to the tournament but praise CMA for getting more out of Mullins recruits. Facts are the Facts, not one 4 star recruit has committed to Anderson yet. I love some of our recruits, Posh, PInzon, Champ, and others, but I think if we want to compete at the top of the Big East we need some better talent to mesh with those 3 star guys that CMA develops well. Lets hope that it starts with Cuffe and continues.
 
[quote="TheArtest15" post=401707][quote="wwalwyn" post=401700]This is crazy. I remember the spring of 2019 when the whole program was in turmoil and a national laughingstock. Now it's 2020 in the midst of a pandemic and people are wondering if it's the coaches fault you can't recruit. He brought in Posh Alexander who would have been a 4⭐ recruit and this year he's brought in the two best players from NYS best team who if they had a regular summer would have probably moved up the rankings. Also look what he did with 2⭐&3⭐ players that Mullin recruited but didn't use. One other thing - isn't it nice to have a complete roster and everyone qualified without any drama.[/quote]

No offense but these sound like excuses to me. How do you know that they would have move dup in the rankings? Maybe other players would have passed them or improved as well. If Bryan Trimble learned how to dribble he would have been a stud! If Chris Obekpa didn't get caught with weed we would have made the final 4. I agree that he's done well with the 2 and 3 star recruits so far. People on here get on Lavin for being lucky and getting Norms players to the tournament but praise CMA for getting more out of Mullins recruits. Facts are the Facts, not one 4 star recruit has committed to Anderson yet. I love some of our recruits, Posh, PInzon, Champ, and others, but I think if we want to compete at the top of the Big East we need some better talent to mesh with those 3 star guys that CMA develops well. Lets hope that it starts with Cuffe and continues.[/quote]

Was lavins first year our best team post Jarvis?
 
[quote="TheArtest15" post=401707][quote="wwalwyn" post=401700]This is crazy. I remember the spring of 2019 when the whole program was in turmoil and a national laughingstock. Now it's 2020 in the midst of a pandemic and people are wondering if it's the coaches fault you can't recruit. He brought in Posh Alexander who would have been a 4⭐ recruit and this year he's brought in the two best players from NYS best team who if they had a regular summer would have probably moved up the rankings. Also look what he did with 2⭐&3⭐ players that Mullin recruited but didn't use. One other thing - isn't it nice to have a complete roster and everyone qualified without any drama.[/quote]

No offense but these sound like excuses to me. How do you know that they would have move dup in the rankings? Maybe other players would have passed them or improved as well. If Bryan Trimble learned how to dribble he would have been a stud! If Chris Obekpa didn't get caught with weed we would have made the final 4. I agree that he's done well with the 2 and 3 star recruits so far. People on here get on Lavin for being lucky and getting Norms players to the tournament but praise CMA for getting more out of Mullins recruits. Facts are the Facts, not one 4 star recruit has committed to Anderson yet. I love some of our recruits, Posh, PInzon, Champ, and others, but I think if we want to compete at the top of the Big East we need some better talent to mesh with those 3 star guys that CMA develops well. Lets hope that it starts with Cuffe and continues.[/quote]

Here ya go, Anderson landed a 4-star recruit. Done!

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/243061/rafael-pinzon
 
[quote="MCNPA" post=401714][quote="TheArtest15" post=401707][quote="wwalwyn" post=401700]This is crazy. I remember the spring of 2019 when the whole program was in turmoil and a national laughingstock. Now it's 2020 in the midst of a pandemic and people are wondering if it's the coaches fault you can't recruit. He brought in Posh Alexander who would have been a 4⭐ recruit and this year he's brought in the two best players from NYS best team who if they had a regular summer would have probably moved up the rankings. Also look what he did with 2⭐&3⭐ players that Mullin recruited but didn't use. One other thing - isn't it nice to have a complete roster and everyone qualified without any drama.[/quote]

No offense but these sound like excuses to me. How do you know that they would have move dup in the rankings? Maybe other players would have passed them or improved as well. If Bryan Trimble learned how to dribble he would have been a stud! If Chris Obekpa didn't get caught with weed we would have made the final 4. I agree that he's done well with the 2 and 3 star recruits so far. People on here get on Lavin for being lucky and getting Norms players to the tournament but praise CMA for getting more out of Mullins recruits. Facts are the Facts, not one 4 star recruit has committed to Anderson yet. I love some of our recruits, Posh, PInzon, Champ, and others, but I think if we want to compete at the top of the Big East we need some better talent to mesh with those 3 star guys that CMA develops well. Lets hope that it starts with Cuffe and continues.[/quote]

Here ya go, Anderson landed a 4-star recruit. Done!

http://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/243061/rafael-pinzon[/quote]

When's he gonna get a 5 star kid????? ;)
 
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