Mike Anderson - Recruiting, Coaching, Etc.

[quote="Monte" post=401582][quote="SJUFAN2" post=401572][quote="Monte" post=401558][quote="Room112" post=401557][quote="Monte" post=401544][quote="Mike Zaun" post=401539]Also, yes I totally agree the system hurts recruiting. It's fun for us to watch, but not fun for top kids looking to commit somewhere. If you want to land the Ponds type kids you have to be able to guarantee tons of PT bottom line. Our recruiting strategy at the moment seems to be going to yard sales hoping we find a Mickey Mantle rookie card some old lady is selling for $5.[/quote]

If CMA can land a Ponds type of kid, he's got be able to guarantee him PT. Provided it's a kid who buys in to CMA's system, of course.[/quote]

I'm not even sure Ponds would have come here if CMA were the coach. I absolutely loved Ponds and watching him play. But let's be honest. He wasn't always interested on the defense end nor was he always willing to put in the conditioning work. Both of these are things CMA demands. Now who knows, maybe CMA would have been a great influence on him, we will never know.[/quote]

Agree completely. Just to clarify, when i said a "Ponds type of kid", I meant talent level.[/quote]

All good/fair points, but someone remind me...how many post season games did Ponds help us win in his career?[/quote]

I believe that to be more a result of the coaching, or lack of, then anything else. Mullin's freestyle offense pretty much made it "every man for himself". Not absolving Ponds or blame, mind you.[/quote]

How many coaches in the NCAA universe can recruit at the highest level AND develop talent, and out coach the guy on the other bench 90% of the time? 10? 20?

Now how many of them would ever consider St Johns as an option? Zero?
 
[quote="SJUFAN2" post=401607][quote="Monte" post=401579][quote="SJUFAN2" post=401574][quote="Monte" post=401561][quote="lawmanfan" post=401559]As I've posted before, Coach Anderson's requirements do tend the limit the recruiting pool. He wants players who have good character traits, are unselfish, are willing to work hard, and will commit to playing defense. That is going to take you out of the running for some highly-ranked kids who have had smoke blown up their ass since they were 10.

However, if he is able to establish a program that wins regularly that's in New York City and plays in the Garden - and there is zero reason to believe he won't do exactly that - then that will lead to interest from more highly ranked players. Not all of them, but you don't need all of them. You just need the right ones.[/quote]

I hear what you're saying, but a quick count tells me that CMA got about 15 top 100 kids at his last 2 stops. And he did that right from the get-go at both schools. So, unless he's abandoned that strategy, it's reasonable to expect that he'll do somewhat the same here. After all, we are touting his track record as a reason for optimism. And rightfully so.[/quote]

Just curious but do people think he forgot how to recruit after leaving Arkansas? Or is it possible its just a little bit easier to recruit at a middle of the pack $EC program than it is at a mom & pop, perennial BE bottom tier school?[/quote]

That's fair, but then let's stop using his track record with recruits and wins as a basis for what to expect moving forward. You can't have it both ways. And once again, all the prior coaches had no problem recruiting here, even after stretches near or at the bottom of the BE. . Maybe not always the right kinds of kids, and I don't expect CMA to compromise his standards, but I also expect to to achieve the same or similar results as he's done over the course of his career. If he can't do that as a bare minimum, then we have problems that no coach will ever solve.[/quote]
True enough. Ultimately, I think that's the case. We just have issues that prevent a quick fix, as proven by the Jarvis, Lavin, Mullin failures.
The only way to do it is start over from scratch with a blue collar approach and build on one success after another until the perception of the program is changed on a local and national level.

I think CMA is exactly the right guy for that job.

Here's a thought experiment/research project for people (not you) who seem to lack the patience or impulse control to give him more than 32 games before complaining about the lack of 4&5 star recruits...

Can anyone provide a list of all the 4 and 5 star players that have represented this program in the NCAA Final Four, Elite Eight and Sweet Sixteen?[/quote]

I think CMA is the right guy for the job as well, and I am more than willing to continue to be patient. Rome wasn't built in a day. I'm even willing to accept that it may not be a straight line up. There will be bumps along the way and maybe some regression here and there. What i do not accept is that we are somehow going to be relevant again by recruiting kids in the top 200-300 range. I honestly expected a little better for CMA's 3rd class. Anyhow I've made my point, a few times over, so I'll let it go and look ahead to the season.
 
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[quote="Monte" post=401583][quote="SJUFAN2" post=401569][quote="lawmanfan" post=401548]Looking forward to when there are actual games played and actual results to evaluate as opposed to ... the rest of this thread.[/quote]

You and me both!

Some of the guys on this thread could give an aspirin a headache with this incessant regurgitation of their thoughts on our "poor" recruiting...[/quote]

I didn't see many people say that our recruiting has been "poor". Discussing and analyzing aspects of our recruiting strategy, especially during a dead period and when we just finished off next year's class, is fair game IMO. And it's not an attack on CMA. For two guys who hate the subject matter, you sure do engage a lot.[/quote]

I love the subject matter. That's why I've spent far too much of the last 25 years of my life on this site. I hate the argument that immediate gratification is required. It's not. Or those other coaches who you say recruited so well would still be here.

By the way...it may seem too you like we post a lot on this subject, but its been two months since I posted on this thread about CMA and his recruiting.
 
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[quote="Mike Zaun" post=401589]The difference is that only homers agree with the "they may be 2 stars but they will be a great fit and turn into beasts" sentiment all the time. Those who agree with me that recruiting is at best a concern so far (though early) are more objective and fans of other programs would more often agree with that. Believe me, if this was happening to other Big East teams, their fans would be having the same questions at a minimum and rightfully so. CMA's future here will be based in large part to his recruiting ability like it or not. If this is the best we can do, we are in big trouble and more 7-11 type finishes. If someone had a correlation graph showing the relationship between recruiting success and success as a program, you would see a clear and obvious relationship. Rankings are there for a reason...they shouldn't be taken as gospel but they are a pretty good guide. Generally, if you're top 10 you are NBA lottery pick material, if you're top 50 you have a chance at the NBA and chance to be a great college player, etc. So while the difference between 55th and 76th may not be that great, the difference between 250 and 55th is big. So there's something to it although it isn't perfect. As much as people want to say these types of posts are "repetitive", so too are the responses to them. Do you want to live in an echochamber, or really discuss things with diff views amongst your fellow fans?[/quote]

Glad you think so highly of your opinion. ;)

What's to discuss? Nothing has changed in the last 9 moths other than we added Two very good kids from a local powerhouse program and a developmental bigman as the 13th man on our roster.

You may think you are enlightened on this subject and that its just give and take, but its not.

By the way...how many two star recruits are on our roster right now, including the 3 guys who just signed?
 
CMA and staff are building a program for the long haul. The effort and the intelligence of this staff will create a top notch program and attract quality players.
 
[quote="Knight" post=401612]CMA and staff are building a program for the long haul. The effort and the intelligence of this staff will create a top notch program and attract quality players.[/quote]

Uh oh. Be careful. You may be accused of being a "homer." :lol:
 
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[quote="Tonyinfairfield " post=401613][quote="Knight" post=401612]CMA and staff are building a program for the long haul. The effort and the intelligence of this staff will create a top notch program and attract quality players.[/quote]

Uh oh. be careful. You may be accused of being a "homer." :lol:[/quote]

D'oh!
 
It’s fun and interesting to hear SJU involved with so many kids. I don’t see many kids that are a huge stretch for us like was the case for many of our previous coaches. We seem to have a realistic shot at many.
 
[quote="SJUFAN2" post=401610][quote="Monte" post=401583][quote="SJUFAN2" post=401569][quote="lawmanfan" post=401548]Looking forward to when there are actual games played and actual results to evaluate as opposed to ... the rest of this thread.[/quote]

You and me both!

Some of the guys on this thread could give an aspirin a headache with this incessant regurgitation of their thoughts on our "poor" recruiting...[/quote]

I didn't see many people say that our recruiting has been "poor". Discussing and analyzing aspects of our recruiting strategy, especially during a dead period and when we just finished off next year's class, is fair game IMO. And it's not an attack on CMA. For two guys who hate the subject matter, you sure do engage a lot.[/quote]

I love the subject matter. That's why I've spent far too much of the last 25 years of my life on this site. I hate the argument that immediate gratification is required. It's not. Or those other coaches who you say recruited so well would still be here.

By the way...it may seem too you like we post a lot on this subject, but its been two months since I posted on this thread about CMA and his recruiting.[/quote]

They all recruited talent, but not balance or all high quality kids. That certainly contributed to their departures, but there were other significant as well with each of the last 6.
 
[quote="SJUFAN2" post=401610][quote="Monte" post=401583][quote="SJUFAN2" post=401569][quote="lawmanfan" post=401548]Looking forward to when there are actual games played and actual results to evaluate as opposed to ... the rest of this thread.[/quote]

You and me both!

Some of the guys on this thread could give an aspirin a headache with this incessant regurgitation of their thoughts on our "poor" recruiting...[/quote]

I didn't see many people say that our recruiting has been "poor". Discussing and analyzing aspects of our recruiting strategy, especially during a dead period and when we just finished off next year's class, is fair game IMO. And it's not an attack on CMA. For two guys who hate the subject matter, you sure do engage a lot.[/quote]

I love the subject matter. That's why I've spent far too much of the last 25 years of my life on this site. I hate the argument that immediate gratification is required. It's not. Or those other coaches who you say recruited so well would still be here.

By the way...it may seem too you like we post a lot on this subject, but its been two months since I posted on this thread about CMA and his recruiting.[/quote]

It wasn't until recently that I posted much on this thread. I feel like it's relevant right now. Plus I'm bored to shit lol
 
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[quote="Knight" post=401616]It’s fun and interesting to hear SJU involved with so many kids. I don’t see many kids that are a huge stretch for us like was the case for many of our previous coaches. We seem to have a realistic shot at many.[/quote]

CMA does not seem to be casting as wide a net as the prior coaches; which is a very good thing. He's targeting kids who he thinks fit his system, and who we have a legit shot with. Having said that, (I just mentioned this on the Cuffe thread) I'd like to see us mentioned with more ranked kids even if they are somewhat of a long shot. For example, even if we loose Cuffe Jr, the fact that we are being mentioned with Kansas, etc is a good thing IMO. I have no problem with the staff selectively aiming high right now and coming up short.
 
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All fine and good, but the mistake is expending real resources (particularly staff time) on kids we have no shot at at the expense of more realistic targets. It seemed that was the case in the past (with limited plan Bs).


[quote="Monte" post=401620][quote="Knight" post=401616]It’s fun and interesting to hear SJU involved with so many kids. I don’t see many kids that are a huge stretch for us like was the case for many of our previous coaches. We seem to have a realistic shot at many.[/quote]

CMA does not seem to be casting as wide a net as the prior coaches; which is a very good thing. He's targeting kids who he thinks fit his system, and who we have a legit shot with. Having said that, (I just mentioned this on the Cuffe thread) I'd like to see us mentioned with more ranked kids even if they are somewhat of a long shot. For example, even if we loose Cuffe Jr, the fact that we are being mentioned with Kansas, etc is a good thing IMO. I have no problem with the staff selectively aiming high right now and coming up short.[/quote]
 
[quote="redmanwest" post=401622]All fine and good, but the mistake is expending real resources (particularly staff time) on kids we have no shot at at the expense of more realistic targets. It seemed that was the case in the past (with limited plan Bs).


[quote="Monte" post=401620][quote="Knight" post=401616]It’s fun and interesting to hear SJU involved with so many kids. I don’t see many kids that are a huge stretch for us like was the case for many of our previous coaches. We seem to have a realistic shot at many.[/quote]

CMA does not seem to be casting as wide a net as the prior coaches; which is a very good thing. He's targeting kids who he thinks fit his system, and who we have a legit shot with. Having said that, (I just mentioned this on the Cuffe thread) I'd like to see us mentioned with more ranked kids even if they are somewhat of a long shot. For example, even if we loose Cuffe Jr, the fact that we are being mentioned with Kansas, etc is a good thing IMO. I have no problem with the staff selectively aiming high right now and coming up short.[/quote][/quote]

Agreed, but I feel safer with CMA doing that because he not only has a plan B, but a plan C + D as well.
 
I don't know about systems...or Plan B's. I do know last year's brand of basketball was pretty exciting. I know coach never finished with a team below .500. Last year's team almost guaranteed a sub-500 finish. Didn't happen. Championships? Probably not...but his teams are fun to watch.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=401562][quote="Monte" post=401560][quote="Anthony Mattia" post=401556]This is all really simple. There are some here who want 4 and 5 star recruits now and nothing anyone says will change their minds because this is CMAs 3rd recruiting class so he should do better.

There are others who view this as his 2nd recruiting class and see that he put a winner on the floor last year in a flash and look at his career and have some faith that he will continue to win and then get higher ranked kids, and nothing you say will change their minds either.

Bottom line is we do need better recruits, but, CMA has only coached here for 1 season. After the last 3 decades of mediocrity I am of the mindset to give a career coach with a proven track record a little more time. I know it's hard to be patient, but I am trying to be and will be rooting like crazy for coach and the kids we do get, regardless of their star rankings.[/quote]

Then there are those of us of fall somewhere in the middle. We preach patience, we trust CMA, we don't expect 4 and 5 star recruits now. etc. Yet we question closing out next year's class(barring a roster change) this early with a top 300 kid, on top of 2 top 200 kids. And we question why, on paper, next year's class doesn't seem any better then CMA's first 2 recruiting classes. Of course, the game is not played on paper, so we'll see how the kids do on the court. I remain extremely optimist.[/quote]

I felt that way (optimistic) on election night too at about 11 pm. We know how that turned out. lol[/quote]

Turned out great!
 
Another factor no one seems to have mentioned is that CMA demands a high level of character both on and off the court. He demands the player be a real student and attend class and perform in the class, something that has not always occurred at SJU. He had the team achieve the highest gpa in ages for which I am so proud. He talks to the team about social issues and taught everyone the importance of voting. He makes men out of boys and is a true life coach. He is a great representative of the school and I for one who have been a 39 year fan am delighted he is our coach.
However I for one can see how that would turn off many a prima Dona.
My sons AAU team of summer of 2019 had a top 60 kid go to Arizona, a top 100 kid go to Clemson, an excellent pg who played Curbalho even and committed to Colorado, a big man at Vermont, one kid to VMI, 2 kids at McGill University but did they win the entire Adidas Gauntlet, no. Was it a lack of talent, certainly not, poor coaching , certainly not. It was because the prima donas were playing for themselves first and the team a distant second.
Sometimes buying into a system and playing under your coach is more important than pure talent.
Unfortunately many on this board just don’t see it.
 
[quote="redmannorth" post=401637]Another factor no one seems to have mentioned is that CMA demands a high level of character both on and off the court. He demands the player be a real student and attend class and perform in the class, something that has not always occurred at SJU. He had the team achieve the highest gpa in ages for which I am so proud. He talks to the team about social issues and taught everyone the importance of voting. He makes men out of boys and is a true life coach. He is a great representative of the school and I for one who have been a 39 year fan am delighted he is our coach.
However I for one can see how that would turn off many a prima Dona.
My sons AAU team of summer of 2019 had a top 60 kid go to Arizona, a top 100 kid go to Clemson, an excellent pg who played Curbalho even and committed to Colorado, a big man at Vermont, one kid to VMI, 2 kids at McGill University but did they win the entire Adidas Gauntlet, no. Was it a lack of talent, certainly not, poor coaching , certainly not. It was because the prima donas were playing for themselves first and the team a distant second.
Sometimes buying into a system and playing under your coach is more important than pure talent.
Unfortunately many on this board just don’t see it.[/quote]

I hear you RN, but CMA is going to have to strike a balance if we are ever going to be a consistently winning program again. Bringing in only kids ranked in the top 200-300, no matter how high quality those kids are, is not going my get us where we all want us to be. He did it at his other stops and I have faith he'll do it here.
 
[quote="Monte" post=401639][quote="redmannorth" post=401637]Another factor no one seems to have mentioned is that CMA demands a high level of character both on and off the court. He demands the player be a real student and attend class and perform in the class, something that has not always occurred at SJU. He had the team achieve the highest gpa in ages for which I am so proud. He talks to the team about social issues and taught everyone the importance of voting. He makes men out of boys and is a true life coach. He is a great representative of the school and I for one who have been a 39 year fan am delighted he is our coach.
However I for one can see how that would turn off many a prima Dona.
My sons AAU team of summer of 2019 had a top 60 kid go to Arizona, a top 100 kid go to Clemson, an excellent pg who played Curbalho even and committed to Colorado, a big man at Vermont, one kid to VMI, 2 kids at McGill University but did they win the entire Adidas Gauntlet, no. Was it a lack of talent, certainly not, poor coaching , certainly not. It was because the prima donas were playing for themselves first and the team a distant second.
Sometimes buying into a system and playing under your coach is more important than pure talent.
Unfortunately many on this board just don’t see it.[/quote]

I hear you RN, but CMA is going to have to strike a balance if we are ever going to be a consistently winning program again. Bringing in only kids ranked in the top 200-300, no matter how high quality those kids are, is not going my get us where we all want us to be. He did it at his other stops and I have faith he'll do it here.[/quote]

You know what's also interesting. The previous two coaches. Yes they were able to bring in 4 star players at times (half of who were headaches or didn't even suit up). But often times it felt like just a collection of talent without any regard for how it would fit together. The end result is we were often left with a hodge podge roster with no depth, no big men, players with issues, and totally inbalanced classes. The point I'm trying to make is I dont remember having confidence our previous two coaches always had a handle on what they were doing. With CMA I feel more confident than ever. Call me a blind homer but this feels different.
 
[quote="Monte" post=401639][quote="redmannorth" post=401637]Another factor no one seems to have mentioned is that CMA demands a high level of character both on and off the court. He demands the player be a real student and attend class and perform in the class, something that has not always occurred at SJU. He had the team achieve the highest gpa in ages for which I am so proud. He talks to the team about social issues and taught everyone the importance of voting. He makes men out of boys and is a true life coach. He is a great representative of the school and I for one who have been a 39 year fan am delighted he is our coach.
However I for one can see how that would turn off many a prima Dona.
My sons AAU team of summer of 2019 had a top 60 kid go to Arizona, a top 100 kid go to Clemson, an excellent pg who played Curbalho even and committed to Colorado, a big man at Vermont, one kid to VMI, 2 kids at McGill University but did they win the entire Adidas Gauntlet, no. Was it a lack of talent, certainly not, poor coaching , certainly not. It was because the prima donas were playing for themselves first and the team a distant second.
Sometimes buying into a system and playing under your coach is more important than pure talent.
Unfortunately many on this board just don’t see it.[/quote]

I hear you RN, but CMA is going to have to strike a balance if we are ever going to be a consistently winning program again. Bringing in only kids ranked in the top 200-300, no matter how high quality those kids are, is not going my get us where we all want us to be. He did it at his other stops and I have faith he'll do it here.[/quote]

I think this is a really fair position to have. As I've argued on here before, I'm generally not too concerned with the number of stars of the guys who get brought in as long as it leads to a winning product on the court. If we're still towards the bottom of the conference in a couple of seasons then I can see myself changing my tune. None of us will be complaining if we start consistently bringing in Top 100 guys. We all want the team to win and if the program is in rough shape after a couple of seasons and Coach is getting mid-major types, nobody will need much convincing to be pessimistic about recruiting. I think most of the debates here tend to be about how often we should be expecting to land these higher level players.

I accept and even enjoy that Anderson is a coach who seems to have a more specific type of player in mind and recruits to his system. That being said every couple of cycles I do think that he needs to bring in a guy who is a natural scorer that opposing defenses will be thinking about the night before. And the reality is that those guys tend to attract attention and rankings. So although I'm not getting hung up on each guy's ranking, I do think he needs to win one of the tougher battles every once in awhile. Cuffe Jr or Applewhite would be guys like that. Jordan Riley would have been a guy like that for me too. I really love Pinzon's game and I think getting him may have really saved our bacon this class but as a scorer he doesn't seem to be in quite the same category as those other guys. Happy to be proven wrong. I personally do think Coach already landed a top guy in Posh Alexander who will prove to be better than most of those ranked above him but we'll see.

My only real point here I guess is that although I usually come down on the side of patience/rankings are overrated, I understand the anxiety for the staff to land a "bigger fish" and I don't want to completely dismiss that. He does need to, "strike a balance" as Monte puts it. We may have a variety of opinions on this board about what that balance needs to be but he's going to have to surprise us once in awhile.
 
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