Mike Anderson - Recruiting, Coaching, Etc.

[quote="Monte" post=401335]I am curious as to why he felt the need to finish off the 21' recruiting cycle with a top 300 kid(on top of 2 top 200 kids) this early? Does that mean we are not in the mix with more skilled JUCOs and/or higher ranked big men? There are still a number of undecided big men in the Rivals top 150, and this was not a must-have recruit by any stretch of the imagination.[/quote]

Not addressed to me, but I'm going to jump in. I don't think we have a real chance with any top 150 big man, and I think they think they can get him to play much better than his ranking.

I think they think he's better than Curry, and I wasn't 100 percent sold on Curry, so I'm good with this.
 
[quote="L J S A" post=401353][quote="Monte" post=401335]I am curious as to why he felt the need to finish off the 21' recruiting cycle with a top 300 kid(on top of 2 top 200 kids) this early? Does that mean we are not in the mix with more skilled JUCOs and/or higher ranked big men? There are still a number of undecided big men in the Rivals top 150, and this was not a must-have recruit by any stretch of the imagination.[/quote]

Not addressed to me, but I'm going to jump in. I don't think we have a real chance with any top 150 big man, and I think they think they can get him to play much better than his ranking.

I think they think he's better than Curry, and I wasn't 100 percent sold on Curry, so I'm good with this.[/quote]

Fair enough LJSA. I also left out the possibility of big man from the transfer portal. Now, of course, CMA knows way more than we know and he may already know that one or more kids plan to leave after this season. So we have to in to account the possibility of one or more scholarships opening up. I'm far from even near the "ledge", and have faith in CMA, but I am starting to worry just a little.
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=401282]Tweet from CMA, all class! [attachment=1671]FA32FD29-CFFA-4268-978B-355403F97264.jpeg[/attachment][/quote]

Man, this guy just gives us more and more reasons to love him.
 
Borzello did a piece on 2nd year head coaches for ESPN. Here's the blurb on Anderson (Apologies if this was already posted somewhere else)

Mike Anderson, St. John's Red Storm

Anderson doesn't have losing seasons. It's just not what he does. And so even though St. John's faced a big rebuild last season, it managed to finish 17-15 -- and beat the likes of West Virginia, Arizona, Creighton and Marquette. And now Anderson is beginning to get more players that fit his "40 minutes of hell" run-and-press style. Coaches around the Big East have mentioned how the Johnnies were starting to get acclimated to Anderson's system by the end of the season, and another year in the program can only help. Four starters are back, there is athleticism coming off the bench and a talented recruiting class of freshmen and junior college transfers enters the fold. They are going to be a nuisance to play.
 
Monte wrote:
Monte wrote: I am curious as to why he felt the need to finish off the 21' recruiting cycle with a top 300 kid(on top of 2 top 200 kids) this early? Does that mean we are not in the mix with more skilled JUCOs and/or higher ranked big men? There are still a number of undecided big men in the Rivals top 150, and this was not a must-have recruit by any stretch of the imagination.


Not addressed to me, but I'm going to jump in. I don't think we have a real chance with any top 150 big man, and I think they think they can get him to play much better than his ranking.

I think they think he's better than Curry, and I wasn't 100 percent sold on Curry, so I'm good with this.

Fair enough LJSA. I also left out the possibility of big man from the transfer portal. Now, of course, CMA knows way more than we know and he may already know that one or more kids plan to leave after this season. So we have to in to account the possibility of one or more scholarships opening up. I'm far from even near the "ledge", and have faith in CMA, but I am starting to worry just a little.

Interesting and worthwhile discussion, I can see both sides. The one thing I'd say is I recall after CMA signed 4 recruits by November 2019, there were similar questions especially with respect to Wusu, who was dismissed in rankings.
Now we are hearing lots of good things about all 4 recruits from Zach who has been watching practices. The proof will be in how they perform as is always the case with ultimate rating of recruiting classes but preliminary reports are this class may be better than originally projected.
 
[quote="NCJohnnie" post=401367]Monte wrote:
Monte wrote: I am curious as to why he felt the need to finish off the 21' recruiting cycle with a top 300 kid(on top of 2 top 200 kids) this early? Does that mean we are not in the mix with more skilled JUCOs and/or higher ranked big men? There are still a number of undecided big men in the Rivals top 150, and this was not a must-have recruit by any stretch of the imagination.


Not addressed to me, but I'm going to jump in. I don't think we have a real chance with any top 150 big man, and I think they think they can get him to play much better than his ranking.

I think they think he's better than Curry, and I wasn't 100 percent sold on Curry, so I'm good with this.

Fair enough LJSA. I also left out the possibility of big man from the transfer portal. Now, of course, CMA knows way more than we know and he may already know that one or more kids plan to leave after this season. So we have to in to account the possibility of one or more scholarships opening up. I'm far from even near the "ledge", and have faith in CMA, but I am starting to worry just a little.

Interesting and worthwhile discussion, I can see both sides. The one thing I'd say is I recall after CMA signed 4 recruits by November 2019, there were similar questions especially with respect to Wusu, who was dismissed in rankings.
Now we are hearing lots of good things about all 4 recruits from Zach who has been watching practices. The proof will be in how they perform as is always the case with ultimate rating of recruiting classes but preliminary reports are this class may be better than originally projected.[/quote]

Good reports from practice are always nice to hear NC, but that doesn't always translate to good results in league play. And hopefully all the players will be better then their rankings/stars, but realistically some will be better, some will be about the same, and some will be worse. The other concern that I have is that we don't even seem to be in the mix with any top 150 kids with the exception of Kyle Cuffe Jr. Unless I'm forgetting someone. It's one thing to be in the mix and lose out, especially while you're trying to reestablish the program. It's another thing to not even be in the mix.
 
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Good reports from practice are always nice to hear NC, but that doesn't always translate to good results in league play. And hopefully all the players will be better then their rankings/stars, but realistically some will be better, some will be about the same, and some will be worse. The other concern that I have is that we don't even seem to be in the mix with any top 150 kids with the exception of Kyle Cuffe Jr. Unless I'm forgetting someone. It's one thing to be in the mix and lose out, especially while you're trying to reestablish the program. It's another thing to not even be in the mix.[/quote]

The staff doesn’t talk recruiting much, most people didn’t know Pinzon was being recruited as seriously as he was until he committed. Not sure anyone outside the staff knows who we are targeting seriously a majority of the time. Did Champagnie not play like a 4 star recruit this past year? Does it really matter until these guys hit the floor and show what they can do? Alexander is such an ideal fit as CMAs point guard I wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up having the biggest impact out of any freshman in the Big East. Just my opinion; rankings are one thing but not the only thing. Feel like people take it as gospel on here.
 
Monte wrote:
Good reports from practice are always nice to hear NC, but that doesn't always translate to good results in league play. And hopefully all the players will be better then their rankings/stars, but realistically some will be better, some will be about the same, and some will be worse. The other concern that I have is that we don't even seem to be in the mix with any top 150 kids with the exception of Kyle Cuffe Jr. Unless I'm forgetting someone. It's one thing to be in the mix and lose out, especially while you're trying to reestablish the program. It's another thing to not even be in the mix.

Agree 100% Monte that results in games will tell the tale. Having said that, CMAs first recruiting class, which was done on an emergency basis, turned out pretty well as Rutherford, Champagnie and Dunn all met or exceeded expectations and I expect the same from this year's class. I'm not a big believer in recruiting rankings once you get outside the top 50 or so (which will always be hard for SJU to get) and will give staff the benefit of the doubt on recruits until they bring in a few underperformers. But understand the other view. I think this year's on court performance will tell us a lot.
 
[quote="Monte" post=401369]The other concern that I have is that we don't even seem to be in the mix with any top 150 kids with the exception of Kyle Cuffe Jr.[/quote]

Unfortunately, I think whatever chance we had with Cuffe may have slipped away when current students got that extra year.
 
[quote="L J S A" post=401376][quote="Monte" post=401369]The other concern that I have is that we don't even seem to be in the mix with any top 150 kids with the exception of Kyle Cuffe Jr.[/quote]

Unfortunately, I think whatever chance we had with Cuffe may have slipped away when current students got that extra year.[/quote]

Maybe.
But honestly I think too many people are assuming kids are going to stay and use the extra year. Why would many stay. Most would already have their degree and they can try and get paid somewhere whether it be G-League, Europe, Asia, South America etc.

I am the first one to follow recruiting closely but I think everyone needs to take a step back this year and accept its going to be a shit show plain and simple. Who uses extra year, who transfers with the free transfer. Going to be pure chaos.
 
[quote="Dan V" post=401374]Good reports from practice are always nice to hear NC, but that doesn't always translate to good results in league play. And hopefully all the players will be better then their rankings/stars, but realistically some will be better, some will be about the same, and some will be worse. The other concern that I have is that we don't even seem to be in the mix with any top 150 kids with the exception of Kyle Cuffe Jr. Unless I'm forgetting someone. It's one thing to be in the mix and lose out, especially while you're trying to reestablish the program. It's another thing to not even be in the mix.[/quote]

The staff doesn’t talk recruiting much, most people didn’t know Pinzon was being recruited as seriously as he was until he committed. Not sure anyone outside the staff knows who we are targeting seriously a majority of the time. Did Champagnie not play like a 4 star recruit this past year? Does it really matter until these guys hit the floor and show what they can do? Alexander is such an ideal fit as CMAs point guard I wouldn’t be surprised if he ends up having the biggest impact out of any freshman in the Big East. Just my opinion; rankings are one thing but not the only thing. Feel like people take it as gospel on here.[/quote]

I don't know about other people, but I don't take rankings as gospel. They are one factor of many. I take videos and "who else is recruiting the kid" even less seriously. With regard to Champagnie, he was a 3 star recruit who had a nice season on a mediocre team. He had ups and downs and finished strong. You could argue he should have been a 4 star recruit based on last season, but let's not make it sound like the kid is stud. And let's see how he does this year. As I said in another post, some kids will perform better then their rankings, some will perform worse, and some will perform about the same. I have faith in CMA, but if he hopes to get us in to the top half of the Big East consistently, he's going to have to do a lot better on the recruiting front, We will not win consistently with kids who are ranked in the 200-300 range and predominantly being recruited by mid majors. I don't care how good he is at coaching them up. I hope and think he'll get us there, but just don't get the giddiness of our fan base over his recruiting so far. Channeling my inner Mike Zaun.
 
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[quote="L J S A" post=401376][quote="Monte" post=401369]The other concern that I have is that we don't even seem to be in the mix with any top 150 kids with the exception of Kyle Cuffe Jr.[/quote]

Unfortunately, I think whatever chance we had with Cuffe may have slipped away when current students got that extra year.[/quote]


My gut tells me that we are in the mix on paper only. Just my gut, nothing to really base it on. Far smarter people like Paultzman and Panther would have a real read. Don't think it has anything to do with the kids getting an extra year. If you're CMA, and you can get Cuffe, you need to figure out how to make room for him.
 
[quote="Monte" post=401383][quote="L J S A" post=401376][quote="Monte" post=401369]The other concern that I have is that we don't even seem to be in the mix with any top 150 kids with the exception of Kyle Cuffe Jr.[/quote]

Unfortunately, I think whatever chance we had with Cuffe may have slipped away when current students got that extra year.[/quote]


My gut tells me that we are in the mix on paper only. Just my gut, nothing to really base it on. Far smarter people like Paultzman and Panther would have a real read. Don't think it has anything to do with the kids getting an extra year. If you're CMA, and you can get Cuffe, you need to figure out how to make room for him.[/quote]
First issue still hanging is whether or not Cuffe moves up a class. I defer to Panther on that. In any event this seems to be a tough get.
 
[quote="Monte" post=401379][quote="Dan V" post=401374]
I don't know about other people, but I don't take rankings as gospel. They are one factor of many. I take videos and "who else is recruiting the kid" even less seriously. With regard to Champagnie, he was a 3 star recruit who had a nice season on a mediocre team. He had ups and downs and finished strong. You could argue he should have been a 4 star recruit based on last season, but let's not make it sound like the kid is stud. And let's see how he does this year. As I said in another post, some kids will perform better then their rankings, some will perform worse, and some will perform about the same. I have faith in CMA, but if he hopes to get us in to the top half of the Big East consistently, he's going to have to do a lot better on the recruiting front, We will not win consistently with kids who are ranked in the 200-300 range and predominantly being recruited by mid majors. I don't care how good he is at coaching them up. I hope and think he'll get us there, but just don't get the giddiness of our fan base over his recruiting so far. Channeling my inner Mike Zaun.[/quote]

Depends on what the definition of “stud” is, he was on the conference all freshman team, how much better would he realistically be his first year? All the other guys on that list were top 150 recruits. I’m not about making excuses for coaches, but criticizing the staffs recruiting up to this point is unwarranted. McGriff has yet to play a game, Rutherford and Dunn pretty much did what they were brought in to do. We will get a much better picture after this season with the 2020 class and how the team performs. Until then why not hold off on the recruiting criticisms, they have done a good job up until now.
 
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[quote="Dan V" post=401403][quote="Monte" post=401379][quote="Dan V" post=401374]
I don't know about other people, but I don't take rankings as gospel. They are one factor of many. I take videos and "who else is recruiting the kid" even less seriously. With regard to Champagnie, he was a 3 star recruit who had a nice season on a mediocre team. He had ups and downs and finished strong. You could argue he should have been a 4 star recruit based on last season, but let's not make it sound like the kid is stud. And let's see how he does this year. As I said in another post, some kids will perform better then their rankings, some will perform worse, and some will perform about the same. I have faith in CMA, but if he hopes to get us in to the top half of the Big East consistently, he's going to have to do a lot better on the recruiting front, We will not win consistently with kids who are ranked in the 200-300 range and predominantly being recruited by mid majors. I don't care how good he is at coaching them up. I hope and think he'll get us there, but just don't get the giddiness of our fan base over his recruiting so far. Channeling my inner Mike Zaun.[/quote]

Depends on what the definition of “stud” is, he was on the conference all freshman team, how much better would he realistically be his first year? All the other guys on that list were top 150 recruits. I’m not about making excuses for coaches, but criticizing the staffs recruiting up to this point is unwarranted. McGriff has yet to play a game, Rutherford and Dunn pretty much did what they were brought in to do. We will get a much better picture after this season with the 2020 class and how the team performs. Until then why not hold off on the recruiting criticisms, they have done a good job up until now.[/quote]

Dan I''ve been supportive of CMA's recruiting so far, and I will continue to be supportive for the near future. I am simply stating my concerns and questioning the wisdom of filing out the roster this early for 2021-2022 with the type of kid who will likely be available later on. Seeing as we are talking about CMA's 3rd recruiting class, I think that's fair discussion to have at this point.
 
[quote="Monte" post=401404][quote="Dan V" post=401403][quote="Monte" post=401379][quote="Dan V" post=401374]
Dan I''ve been supportive of CMA's recruiting so far, and I will continue to be supportive for the near future. I am simply stating my concerns and questioning the wisdom of filing out the roster this early for 2021-2022 with the type of kid who will likely be available later on. Seeing as we are talking about CMA's 3rd recruiting class, I think that's fair discussion to have at this point.[/quote]

I think he sees something in Stanley that he really likes, I have no problem with that. I don’t question it at all because he hasn’t played for us yet. Also I think the staff has shown that up until now they can identify talent. Mind you that could change after this year. He was down to his final three so he wouldn’t have been available later, unless you mean just some other big with a similar ranking. To that I say maybe this is the kid Anderson really wanted. As far as his 3rd class I’m perfectly fine with Pinzon being the centerpiece I like him a lot. But I do feel that people are expecting him to be better as a freshman than he will be, he still struggles to finish through contact, he will likely need a year to get stronger. Also your far from the biggest complainer on this board so nothing personal.
 
FWIW, these are the 3rd recruiting classes for all of our coaches since Louie. May have missed one or two kids. I'm only listing players that played in coach's 3rd year:

Mahoney: Felipe, Zendon, Tarik
Fran(he never coached a 3rd year):Bootsy, Barkley, Emmanuel
Jarvis:Cook, Cuffe, Diakite
Norm: Wright, Calhoun
Lavin: Sampson, Obekpa, Jones, Balamou
Mullin: Simon, Clark, Trimble
 
[quote="Dan V" post=401406][quote="Monte" post=401404][quote="Dan V" post=401403][quote="Monte" post=401379][quote="Dan V" post=401374]
Dan I''ve been supportive of CMA's recruiting so far, and I will continue to be supportive for the near future. I am simply stating my concerns and questioning the wisdom of filing out the roster this early for 2021-2022 with the type of kid who will likely be available later on. Seeing as we are talking about CMA's 3rd recruiting class, I think that's fair discussion to have at this point.[/quote]

I think he sees something in Stanley that he really likes, I have no problem with that. I don’t question it at all because he hasn’t played for us yet. Also I think the staff has shown that up until now they can identify talent. Mind you that could change after this year. He was down to his final three so he wouldn’t have been available later, unless you mean just some other big with a similar ranking. To that I say maybe this is the kid Anderson really wanted. As far as his 3rd class I’m perfectly fine with Pinzon being the centerpiece I like him a lot. But I do feel that people are expecting him to be better as a freshman than he will be, he still struggles to finish through contact, he will likely need a year to get stronger. Also your far from the biggest complainer on this board so nothing personal.[/quote]

I rarely complain, especially about CMA and the staff. Quite the contrary. Raising a concern and/or questioning a coach's recruiting decision, is not complaining. I've been a staunch CMA supporter, that doesn't mean that I'm always going to agree with what he does. Anyhow, you got your way of looking at things, and I got mine. We'll leave it at that.
 
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[quote="Monte" post=401407]FWIW, these are the 3rd recruiting classes for all of our coaches since Louie. May have missed one or two kids. I'm only listing players that played in coach's 3rd year:

Mahoney: Felipe, Zendon, Tarik
Fran(he never coached a 3rd year):Bootsy, Barkley, Emmanuel
Jarvis:Cook, Cuffe, Diakite
Norm: Wright, Calhoun
Lavin: Sampson, Obekpa, Jones, Balamou
Mullin: Simon, Clark, Trimble[/quote]

What if Anderson does better and is more consistently good than those guys but continues to recruit the way he has been? If he fails he fails nothing new around here, I’m just not worried because I think he’s doing a good job all around so far.
 
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[quote="Dan V" post=401409][quote="Monte" post=401407]FWIW, these are the 3rd recruiting classes for all of our coaches since Louie. May have missed one or two kids. I'm only listing players that played in coach's 3rd year:

Mahoney: Felipe, Zendon, Tarik
Fran(he never coached a 3rd year):Bootsy, Barkley, Emmanuel
Jarvis:Cook, Cuffe, Diakite
Norm: Wright, Calhoun
Lavin: Sampson, Obekpa, Jones, Balamou
Mullin: Simon, Clark, Trimble[/quote]

What if Anderson does better and is more consistently good than those guys but continues to recruit they way he has been? If he fails he fails nothing new around here, I’m just not worried because I think he’s doing a good job all around so far.[/quote]

As long as he wins, I don't care if he does it with unranked kids. I'm happy with pretty much everything he's done here so far, I've said that countless times on this board
 
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