Mike Anderson - Recruiting, Coaching, Etc.

[quote="Moon Mullen" post=401451][quote="Room112" post=401438][quote="lawmanfan" post=401433][quote="Moon Mullen" post=401431]There is no road to the final four that includes a 2 and 3 star ream. I can’t help this sound any other way then I am criticizing these kids but the reality is I am about to criticize the staff.
Is this the best the staff can do? The school is paying this coaching staff for these results in
recruiting. This has never led to long term success for any team. I am not privy to the staff’s thinking but when I see year 3 not deviating from this strategy, I only see small steps while standing in place.[/quote]

Dude thinks we're going from perennial bottom fifth of the league to the Final 4 in one small step. SMH.

It's a pretty uncomplicated plan:

1. Get players who can contribute and develop them.
2. Win games so the program becomes consistently relevant.
3. Winning programs attract more talented players.

If instant gratification is your thing, then I guess the plan isn't for you - but I'm good with it.[/quote]

Haha! I was thinking the same thing. We haven't even won an NCAA game in 20 years but we're currently aiming for a final four appearance? What?

Bottom line, I don't think anyone is satisfied with low ranking recruits. I think most of us are willing to trust the process and plan in place. 4 and 5 star recruits are not knocking down the door to come here! Each year that passes is a year farther away from any semblance of recent success we had.[/quote]

I have been a fan of this program for over 50 years. So I am not the guy to talk to about quick fixes. I am talking about one 4 star recruit. This type of thinking has been pervasive here the last 15 to 20 years. Hell I even bought into it for awhile and where did that get this team. We are projected to come in ninth by the other Big East Coaches who have actually coached against our coach’s style of play. They actually don’t know the 2 & 3 star recruits we brought in because they haven’t been on the recruiting trail?
Listen I am a fan, I hope we do well, this just didn’t work in Arkansas, and unless they have higher standards than us, I don’t see it working here.[/quote]

Not really, we’ve had good recruits. What has been “pervasive” at SJU is hiring poor coaches. And yes it did work at Arkansas, they just weren’t happy with a level of success less than final 4’s.
 
Year 3, especially the 22 Class to address likely roster voids, will more fairly define where the staff is developing a consistently successful recruiting program IMO.

We all want success sooner than later because we have sucked for so long. IMO, we have a real basketball coach and leader so it seems prudent to see where we are after three recruiting cycles. In fairness to Zaun and other skeptics, we do have a tendency to immediately categorize new kids as “great fits for the system” after seeing very small samples, clips, etc. That is simply what fans yearning for success, me included, tend to do out of hope borne of mediocrity for too long. :)
 
I can't believe some people are using George Mason, SDSU, and Loyola as examples lol...these are teams that caught lightning in a bottle in once in 100 yr seasons given their talent and conference affiliation. If you want to win consistently in the MAAC, you might be able to do so with 2 stars and amazing coaching. But in the Big East? Do you see any Big East, B1G, SEC, ACC teams drooling over 2 star kids? Not 1 team from any of those. I think many just create a universe where everything is acceptable here. If we can only get 2-3 star kids, that's just fine because they will all become All Big East players eventually. How convenient in the face of overwhelming evidence. Those who want to make excuses will always find them. Those who can do...will do. I'm not saying it's easy to recruit here. Clearly it's not. But if DePaul can get 4 star kids like a pack of gum, it makes it head-scratching. Clearly Lavin sold top kids on coming here and Mullin did too with zero coaching experience ever. If CMA is as amazing as everyone thinks, then he should be on the bubble this year and start landing occasional 4 star kids in the very near future like a normal Big East team that wants to compete. You can only go so far without the horses. It really does seem like some people are perfectly content with this being our recruiting strategy. I just want to get back to seeing us in the headlines with top 100 kids where we should be. I refuse to accept a MAAC type recruiting strategy for a Big East program.
 
Since revisionist history is so fun, and we are now longing for the days when we used to get all of these 4 and 5 star players over the past decade. Here is a breakdown of the recruiting classes of Mullin and Lavin (with ratings from 24/7):

2010 - Lavin
-Dwayne Polee (3 stars) - Didn't stand out much and then transferred

2011 - Lavin
-Pointer (4 stars) - frustrated us for 3 years before becoming a star his senior year
-Mo Harkless (4 stars) - A stud but left after one year
-D'Angelo Harrison (4 stars) - Had his share of issues early, but turned it around and became one of all time leading scorers and fan favorite
-Norvel Pelle (4 stars) - never made it to campus
-Amir Garrett (4 stars) - was a complimentary piece and eventually left to focus on baseball
-Phil Greene (3 stars) - a role player who we kept waiting on to take the next step but still a great 4 year player
-Nurideen Lindsay (4 star transfer) - total waste
-Gods Gift (3 star transfer) - solid role player

2012 - Lavin
-Jakarr Sampson (4 stars) - showed flashes of greatness at times but left after 2 years
-Chris Obekpa (4 stars) - a headache
-Orlando Sanchez (N/A) - solid role player for the one year
-Christian Jones (3 stars) - solid role player before leaving
-Marco Bourgault (3 stars) - didn't amount to much

2013 - Lavin
-Rysheed Jordan (4 stars) - headache

2014 - Lavin
-Adonis De La Rosa (3 stars) - most notable for shower incident
-Keith Thomas (3 stars) - most notable for parking lot transcript incident

2015 - Mullin
-Marcus Lovett (4 stars) - headache and then left
-Kassoum Yakwe (4 stars) - never amounted to anything and then transferred
-Darien Williams (4 stars) - didn't amount to much and then transferred
-Malik Ellison (3 stars) - didn't amount to much and then transferred
-Yankuba Sima (3 stars) - didn't amount to much and then transferred
-Frederico Mussini (4 stars) - didn't amount to much and went back home
-Justin Simon (4 stars transfer) - Was a great player for us
-Marvin Clark (4 stars transfer) - Was a great player for us

2016 - Mullin
-Shamorie Ponds (4 stars) - One of our greatest players of all time
-Bashir Ahmed (4 stars JUCO) - showed flashes of being great at times, solid overall
-Richard Freudenberg (4 stars) - didn't amount to much and went back home

2017 - Mullin
-Bryan Trimble (3 stars) - solid role player, then transferred
-Sid Wilson (4 stars) - never made it to campus, stolen from us by UConn
-Boubacar Diakite (3 stars) - got injured and then transferred

2018 - Mullin
-Greg Williams (3 stars)
-Marcellus Earlington (3 stars)
-Josh Roberts (3 stars)
-LJ Figeroa (4 star transfer) - was great for us first year, erratic second year, then left
-Ian Steere (4 star transfer) - headache
-David Caraher (3 star transfer)

Excuse my commentary, and I might have mixed some guys. But just an example of high rating guys not always amounting to what we expect.

Disclaimer: This is not my way of touting going after lower ranked guys. Just an example of how highly rated guys don't always work.
 
Starting to think about this in terms of jewelry. First build the setting and then seek the perfect gem. At some point post-Covid, STJ's recruiting advantage playing in the Mecca of hoops in the great international city will attract some overseas 4* players (we are currently recruiting several I believe) and because the setting is structurally sound, they will flourish, as will STJ. In the words of Panther2, "One step at a time."
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=401454]Year 3, especially the 22 Class to address likely roster voids, will more fairly define where the staff is developing a consistently successful recruiting program IMO.

We all want success sooner than later because we have sucked for so long. IMO, we have a real basketball coach and leader so it seems prudent to see where we are after three recruiting cycles. In fairness to Zaun and other skeptics, we do have a tendency to immediately categorize new kids as “great fits for the system” after seeing very small samples, clips, etc. That is simply what fans yearning for success, me included, tend to do out of hope borne of mediocrity for too long. :)[/quote]

Paultzman, by the way Billy Paultz was in one of my classes, I have bought into every coaching staff, but by year three the staff must bring in some higher ranked players otherwise we are back to year 5 and the posts become about firing the coaching staff.
 
[quote="Moon Mullen" post=401461][quote="Paultzman" post=401454]Year 3, especially the 22 Class to address likely roster voids, will more fairly define where the staff is developing a consistently successful recruiting program IMO.

We all want success sooner than later because we have sucked for so long. IMO, we have a real basketball coach and leader so it seems prudent to see where we are after three recruiting cycles. In fairness to Zaun and other skeptics, we do have a tendency to immediately categorize new kids as “great fits for the system” after seeing very small samples, clips, etc. That is simply what fans yearning for success, me included, tend to do out of hope borne of mediocrity for too long. :)[/quote]

Paultzman, by the way Billy Paultz was in one of my classes, I have bought into every coaching staff, but by year three the staff must bring in some higher ranked players otherwise we are back to year 5 and the posts become about firing the coaching staff.[/quote]
I guess that was my point
 
[quote="Brian3" post=401452]If Anderson can get us back to Friday Night of the BE Tourney or to the Round of 64 in the next two years, that's success- who cares what the kids rank that get us there.

Accomplish that- then success becomes getting a win in the Tourney.

Do those who are not satisfied with the amount of stars that make our roster.... realize how far this program has fallen? I've seen people post the stats, last win in the NCAA 20+yrs ago etc... is there no recognition that we aren't a destination yet*?

I believe CMA has what it takes to get us where we want to be. He got a make shift roster (without its best player) to a winning record last year and had them playing real well at the end- thats impressive. Incremental improvements and then we can start aiming for higher caliber recruits... or we win with whatever guys he gets, cause if one thing is certain- thats what CMA does- win.

At this juncture in his tenure...a rational thought should not consist of 4/5 star recruits or NCAA tourney wins. Above 500 in BE play and Friday night of the BE tourney is the next step.[/quote]


Brian3 you must be a fan from the last 15 years to expect such mediocre results as to call it unrealistic to get a 4 star recruit by year 3. .
 
[quote="Room112" post=401458]Since revisionist history is so fun, and we are now longing for the days when we used to get all of these 4 and 5 star players over the past decade. Here is a breakdown of the recruiting classes of Mullin and Lavin (with ratings from 24/7):

2010 - Lavin
-Dwayne Polee
-Norvel Pelle
-Nurideen Lindsay
-Chris Obekpa (4 stars) - a headache
-Rysheed Jordan (4 stars) - headache
-Adonis De La Rosa (3 stars) - most notable for shower incident
-Keith Thomas (3 stars) - most notable for parking lot transcript incident
-Marcus Lovett (4 stars) - headache and then left
-Kassoum Yakwe (4 stars) - never amounted to anything and then transferred
-Yankuba Sima (3 stars) - didn't amount to much and then transferred
-Richard Freudenberg (4 stars) - didn't amount to much and went back home
-Sid Wilson (4 stars) - never made it to campus, stolen from us by UConn
-Ian Steere (4 star transfer) - headache
Excuse my commentary, and I might have mixed some guys. But just an example of high rating guys not always amounting to what we expect.
[/quote]

My takeaway is to grab some Tylenol.
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=401462][quote="Moon Mullen" post=401461][quote="Paultzman" post=401454]Year 3, especially the 22 Class to address likely roster voids, will more fairly define where the staff is developing a consistently successful recruiting program IMO.

We all want success sooner than later because we have sucked for so long. IMO, we have a real basketball coach and leader so it seems prudent to see where we are after three recruiting cycles. In fairness to Zaun and other skeptics, we do have a tendency to immediately categorize new kids as “great fits for the system” after seeing very small samples, clips, etc. That is simply what fans yearning for success, me included, tend to do out of hope borne of mediocrity for too long. :)[/quote]

Paultzman, by the way Billy Paultz was in one of my classes, I have bought into every coaching staff, but by year three the staff must bring in some higher ranked players otherwise we are back to year 5 and the posts become about firing the coaching staff.[/quote]
I guess that was my point[/quote]

Paultzman, I hope it works out that way
 
[quote="MCNPA" post=401453][quote="Moon Mullen" post=401451][quote="Room112" post=401438][quote="lawmanfan" post=401433][quote="Moon Mullen" post=401431]There is no road to the final four that includes a 2 and 3 star ream. I can’t help this sound any other way then I am criticizing these kids but the reality is I am about to criticize the staff.
Is this the best the staff can do? The school is paying this coaching staff for these results in
recruiting. This has never led to long term success for any team. I am not privy to the staff’s thinking but when I see year 3 not deviating from this strategy, I only see small steps while standing in place.[/quote]

Dude thinks we're going from perennial bottom fifth of the league to the Final 4 in one small step. SMH.

It's a pretty uncomplicated plan:

1. Get players who can contribute and develop them.
2. Win games so the program becomes consistently relevant.
3. Winning programs attract more talented players.

If instant gratification is your thing, then I guess the plan isn't for you - but I'm good with it.[/quote]

Haha! I was thinking the same thing. We haven't even won an NCAA game in 20 years but we're currently aiming for a final four appearance? What?

Bottom line, I don't think anyone is satisfied with low ranking recruits. I think most of us are willing to trust the process and plan in place. 4 and 5 star recruits are not knocking down the door to come here! Each year that passes is a year farther away from any semblance of recent success we had.[/quote]

I have been a fan of this program for over 50 years. So I am not the guy to talk to about quick fixes. I am talking about one 4 star recruit. This type of thinking has been pervasive here the last 15 to 20 years. Hell I even bought into it for awhile and where did that get this team. We are projected to come in ninth by the other Big East Coaches who have actually coached against our coach’s style of play. They actually don’t know the 2 & 3 star recruits we brought in because they haven’t been on the recruiting trail?
Listen I am a fan, I hope we do well, this just didn’t work in Arkansas, and unless they have higher standards than us, I don’t see it working here.[/quote]

Not really, we’ve had good recruits. What has been “pervasive” at SJU is hiring poor coaches. And yes it did work at Arkansas, they just weren’t happy with a level of success less than final 4’s.[/quote]

Doesn't every fan of each team/school want to get to the f4? If not then what's the sense of playing sports? That's what sports is all about.
Winning the b.e. would be great. Winning our first game in 20 years would be great, so would making the 2nd weekend of the ncaa tournament.

I know coach isn't a miracle worker and it's going to take years, but before he's done get, get us a championship Mikey, we know you can get us one.
 
In an effort to add some levity to this thread, I put together a "TOP TEN"(a baker's dozen, actually) list of things you can expect to hear from our fan base whenever we get a commitment from a low ranked or unranked kid.

Number 13: Did you see his videos(against far inferior high school comp)? The kid is a stud!!
Number 12: Not every kid we go after can be 5 stars
Number 11: I know he’s ranked #839 on rivals, but he’s a perfect CMA kind of recruit
Number 10: If he wasn’t 450 lbs , the kid wouldn't have only been recruited by D3 schools
Number 9: If he ever develops an offensive game, watch out!
Number 8: I love diamonds in the rough!
Number 7: Ja Morant was a 2 star recruit too.
Number 6: If he wasn’t injured last year, he would have been a McDonald’s All-American
Number 5: Forget that he’s a 6’4” low post player, he’s got the wingspan of a guy who’s 7’9”
Number 4: With the new rule in place, every team needs 5 year contributors
Number 3: Elliot Steinmetz was after this kid, and he knows talent when he sees it
Number 2: He reminds me a lot of that guy who used to play for the Chicago Bulls
Number 1: He’s not your average walk-on

Bonus: He's got a great motor
 
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I see besides acting and all of your other talents Monte you are also a comedian. ;) :)
On second reading I think maybe you were being serious. :lol:
 
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[quote="Monte" post=401474]In an effort to add some levity to this thread, I put together a "TOP TEN"(a baker's dozen, actually) list of things you can expect to hear from our fan base whenever we get a commitment from a low ranked or unranked kid.

Number 13: Did you see his videos(against far inferior high school comp)? The kid is a stud!!
Number 12: Not every kid we go after can be 5 stars
Number 11: I know he’s ranked #839 on rivals, but he’s a perfect CMA kind of recruit
Number 10: If he wasn’t 450 lbs , the kid wouldn't have only been recruited by D3 schools
Number 9: If he ever develops an offensive game, watch out!
Number 8: I love diamonds in the rough!
Number 7: Ja Morant was a 2 star recruit too.
Number 6: If he wasn’t injured last year, he would have been a McDonald’s All-American
Number 5: Forget that he’s a 6’4” low post player, he’s got the wingspan of a guy who’s 7’9”
Number 4: With the new rule in place, every team needs 5 year contributors
Number 3: Elliot Steinmetz was after this kid, and he knows talent when he sees it
Number 2: He reminds me a lot of that guy who used to play for the Chicago Bulls
Number 1: He’s not your average walk-on

Bonus: He's got a great motor[/quote]

Number 1 is my favorite. Was waiting to hear that about Gavalas and Rosemond this year
 
[quote="bamafan" post=401475]I see besides acting and all of your other talents Monte you are also a comedian. ;) :)
On second reading I think maybe you were being serious. :lol:[/quote]

"Many a true word hath been spoken in jest" -Billy Shakes ;)
 
[quote="Moon Mullen" post=401465][quote="Brian3" post=401452]If Anderson can get us back to Friday Night of the BE Tourney or to the Round of 64 in the next two years, that's success- who cares what the kids rank that get us there.

Accomplish that- then success becomes getting a win in the Tourney.

Do those who are not satisfied with the amount of stars that make our roster.... realize how far this program has fallen? I've seen people post the stats, last win in the NCAA 20+yrs ago etc... is there no recognition that we aren't a destination yet*?

I believe CMA has what it takes to get us where we want to be. He got a make shift roster (without its best player) to a winning record last year and had them playing real well at the end- thats impressive. Incremental improvements and then we can start aiming for higher caliber recruits... or we win with whatever guys he gets, cause if one thing is certain- thats what CMA does- win.

At this juncture in his tenure...a rational thought should not consist of 4/5 star recruits or NCAA tourney wins. Above 500 in BE play and Friday night of the BE tourney is the next step.[/quote]


Brian3 you must be a fan from the last 15 years to expect such mediocre results as to call it unrealistic to get a 4 star recruit by year 3. .[/quote]

Don't think anyone's a fan of the results the past 15 years (except Lav's first year- Garden was rockin that year) - im just capable of evaluating the team's results over that time frame and reset my expectations accordingly. We have coach who's proven his capability to win at each of his stops - a decent first year given what he inherited and a team that looks set up well to compete in a tough BE this year. Who doesn't want 4/5 stars...? Just think its premature in the process to expect it given our recent history.
 
[quote="Brian3" post=401482][quote="Moon Mullen" post=401465][quote="Brian3" post=401452]If Anderson can get us back to Friday Night of the BE Tourney or to the Round of 64 in the next two years, that's success- who cares what the kids rank that get us there.

Accomplish that- then success becomes getting a win in the Tourney.

Do those who are not satisfied with the amount of stars that make our roster.... realize how far this program has fallen? I've seen people post the stats, last win in the NCAA 20+yrs ago etc... is there no recognition that we aren't a destination yet*?

I believe CMA has what it takes to get us where we want to be. He got a make shift roster (without its best player) to a winning record last year and had them playing real well at the end- thats impressive. Incremental improvements and then we can start aiming for higher caliber recruits... or we win with whatever guys he gets, cause if one thing is certain- thats what CMA does- win.

At this juncture in his tenure...a rational thought should not consist of 4/5 star recruits or NCAA tourney wins. Above 500 in BE play and Friday night of the BE tourney is the next step.[/quote]


Brian3 you must be a fan from the last 15 years to expect such mediocre results as to call it unrealistic to get a 4 star recruit by year 3. .[/quote]

Don't think anyone's a fan of the results the past 15 years (except Lav's first year- Garden was rockin that year) - im just capable of evaluating the team's results over that time frame and reset my expectations accordingly. We have coach who's proven his capability to win at each of his stops - a decent first year given what he inherited and a team that looks set up well to compete in a tough BE this year. Who doesn't want 4/5 stars...? Just think its premature in the process to expect it given our recent history.[/quote]

You are probably right about the last 15 years, I just happen to think that in year 3 of recruiting, with the staff we have, we should expect better results.
 
Monte
so creative! nice!!
Here's a few rejects that missed your list:

14.IF he had an offensive game AND defensive game AND a handle, he'd have blue chips all over him;
15.He has a very high ceiling, no basement but very high;
16.With his wing span he can also change overhead light bulbs in Alumni Hall;
17.He has offers from Best Buy and P C. Richards to stock flat screens on top shelves
18.If he only had a brain, a heart and basketball nerve ' he would not be just a nothing '
19.if his last name was not "Dangerfield" he would get more respect from recruiters;
20.he's a nice guy in the locker room;
21.other than defensive and offensive deficiencies, he brings a lot to the table;
22.he's very coachable; very coachable!
23.if his high school had a basketball team, he'd be much more highly recruited;
24.Coach Anderson can work with him;
25.He's got hops, barley, maize and wheat!
There will be beer in the locker room!!! And this in turn will attract 4 an 5 stars.

all the best
 
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[quote="Sherman, Sheridan & Grant" post=401487]Monte
so creative! nice!!
Here's a few rejects that missed your list:

14.IF he had an offensive game AND defensive game AND a handle, he'd have blue chips all over him;
15.He has a very high ceiling, no basement but very high;
16.With his wing span he can also change overhead light bulbs in Alumni Hall;
17.He has offers from Best Buy and P C. Richards to stock flat screens on top shelves
18.If he only had a brain, a heart and basketball nerve ' he would not be just a nothing '
19.if his last name was not "Dangerfield" he would get more respect from recruiters;
20.he's a nice guy in the locker room;
21.other than defensive and offensive deficiencies, he brings a lot to the table;
22.he's very coachable; very coachable!
23.if his high school had a basketball team, he'd be much more highly recruited;
24.Coach Anderson can work with him;
25.He's got hops, barley, maize and wheat!
There will be beer in the locker room!!! And this in turn will attract 4 an 5 stars.

all the best[/quote]

:cheer: :cheer: :cheer: :cheer:
 
[quote="Moon Mullen" post=401484][quote="Brian3" post=401482][quote="Moon Mullen" post=401465][quote="Brian3" post=401452]
You are probably right about the last 15 years, I just happen to think that in year 3 of recruiting, with the staff we have, we should expect better results.[/quote]

How do you know what the results are if they haven’t played yet? I know I keep repeating that but still.
 
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