Waiting...
Lavin's Future in Doubt at SJU
- Thread starter SJU14
- Start date
MarkRedman
Well-known member
No such tweet posted
Just checked - the tweet I referenced is the last one Zach posted on Twitter
A lot of interesting discussion on here the last two days. Nice to move on from the unremitting Lavin discussion (whether he stays or goes) and discuss something at least a little bit different in prospective coaches should Lavin not return.
The concept I've seen that I agree with most is that SJU cannot afford to take any risks here. They have to get as much upside as they possibly can out of this hire while maintaining a high floor. I also agree that the three candidates (who might remotely consider this job) who best satisfy these objectives are Archie Miller, Bobby, and Danny.
Archie is clearly the best of them right now. I don't think he's coming here, and even if he did, I think it would just be a springboard to his final destination.
Either Bobby or Danny would be great choices. But what I've been surprised by is how many seem to have Bobby decidedly above Danny. I see a lot of "Archie or Bobby". Again, Bobby would be fantastic in my view, but don't discount Danny (1) generally, or (2) for this particular job. The latter is why I prefer him to Bobby - it's an "at SJU" analysis more than it is "who could win bigger at OSU". Which hopefully makes some degree of sense since we are talking about a potential SJU coach.
I don't know Danny. I've met him a few times. I played against his early St. Benedict's teams a number of times. And I know people who are close with him. From what I know, Danny is almost tailor made for this program.
SJU is not an easy job. It's not the hardest job, and I certainly don't think it's as hard as we've made it for most of the last 15 years, but it's not an easy job. We don't have Florida's facilities, we don't have a serious on-campus arena, rely on selling a mostly half-filled Garden, etc. No bells and whistles here; it's a meat and potatoes job. Danny Hurley is a meat and potatoes guy, and I get the sense he almost disdains bells and whistles.
Perhaps most importantly his college coaching career IS his career. He's not arguably the best high school coach in history. He doesn't have two national championships or an NCAA career assist record to fall back on. This doesn't guarantee his success vs. others (including his brother's), but I do think it's evidence of a chip on his shoulder, a burning desire to succeed.
There would be no debate as to who the one person in the world who cares most about SJU winning is. Winning is an obsession for him. If you want the coach who is going to light it up in practice for 3 hours, go catch back to back high school games in the city, come back to campus and watch film, and sleep on the couch in his office three nights per week...this is it.
He has the track record to prove it. You don't inherit a Wagner team that was 5-26 and have them at 25-5 in two seasons...or inherit a Rhodie team that was 7-24 and have them at 23-10 in three seasons...by mistake. That's relentless preparation, coaching, and recruiting.
Again this is not to say Bobby is not any of these things, or that Bobby wouldn't be more successful here than Danny, or that Danny would be a lock to succeed here no matter what. Nobody knows any of that. And I'd be over the moon about a Bobby hire too. But if we are talking purely about a "fit" here, I just don't know how or where we do better than Danny.
The concept I've seen that I agree with most is that SJU cannot afford to take any risks here. They have to get as much upside as they possibly can out of this hire while maintaining a high floor. I also agree that the three candidates (who might remotely consider this job) who best satisfy these objectives are Archie Miller, Bobby, and Danny.
Archie is clearly the best of them right now. I don't think he's coming here, and even if he did, I think it would just be a springboard to his final destination.
Either Bobby or Danny would be great choices. But what I've been surprised by is how many seem to have Bobby decidedly above Danny. I see a lot of "Archie or Bobby". Again, Bobby would be fantastic in my view, but don't discount Danny (1) generally, or (2) for this particular job. The latter is why I prefer him to Bobby - it's an "at SJU" analysis more than it is "who could win bigger at OSU". Which hopefully makes some degree of sense since we are talking about a potential SJU coach.
I don't know Danny. I've met him a few times. I played against his early St. Benedict's teams a number of times. And I know people who are close with him. From what I know, Danny is almost tailor made for this program.
SJU is not an easy job. It's not the hardest job, and I certainly don't think it's as hard as we've made it for most of the last 15 years, but it's not an easy job. We don't have Florida's facilities, we don't have a serious on-campus arena, rely on selling a mostly half-filled Garden, etc. No bells and whistles here; it's a meat and potatoes job. Danny Hurley is a meat and potatoes guy, and I get the sense he almost disdains bells and whistles.
Perhaps most importantly his college coaching career IS his career. He's not arguably the best high school coach in history. He doesn't have two national championships or an NCAA career assist record to fall back on. This doesn't guarantee his success vs. others (including his brother's), but I do think it's evidence of a chip on his shoulder, a burning desire to succeed.
There would be no debate as to who the one person in the world who cares most about SJU winning is. Winning is an obsession for him. If you want the coach who is going to light it up in practice for 3 hours, go catch back to back high school games in the city, come back to campus and watch film, and sleep on the couch in his office three nights per week...this is it.
He has the track record to prove it. You don't inherit a Wagner team that was 5-26 and have them at 25-5 in two seasons...or inherit a Rhodie team that was 7-24 and have them at 23-10 in three seasons...by mistake. That's relentless preparation, coaching, and recruiting.
Again this is not to say Bobby is not any of these things, or that Bobby wouldn't be more successful here than Danny, or that Danny would be a lock to succeed here no matter what. Nobody knows any of that. And I'd be over the moon about a Bobby hire too. But if we are talking purely about a "fit" here, I just don't know how or where we do better than Danny.
Not extending Coach Lavin will be a major mistake by St. John's.
20 win seasons 2 NCAA 2 NIT.
Recruiting top 75 players.
Able to recruit Nationally to Jamaica Queens.
We need stability not a revolving door every 5 years.
Look around the Metro area Seton Hall, Rutgers, Fordham. Right now I think we have are a step ahead of them do we really want to put ourselves in the starting over again group?
Syracuse has NCAA issues UConn in a bad conference.St. John's has an opportunity to take a step to being an elite school again. coach Lavin is the man to take us there.
20 win seasons 2 NCAA 2 NIT.
Recruiting top 75 players.
Able to recruit Nationally to Jamaica Queens.
We need stability not a revolving door every 5 years.
Look around the Metro area Seton Hall, Rutgers, Fordham. Right now I think we have are a step ahead of them do we really want to put ourselves in the starting over again group?
Syracuse has NCAA issues UConn in a bad conference.St. John's has an opportunity to take a step to being an elite school again. coach Lavin is the man to take us there.
actually not a bad argument. the one thing I'd say is we should always be better than seton hall, Rutgers and Fordham and want to be more in line with the stability of villanova and gtown. I'm sure Lavin has the bravado to do that but not the x's and o's capability. We want the total package!
Nice post. Danny is probably laying back & keeping his eyes & ears open. He is in an excellent position with a strong team coming back & likelihood of better deals down the road, assuming he has an impressive coming season. Bobby, if he is truly a DePaul candidate, is ahead of the curve based on less HC experience, but seems to have sparked interest. Like the Hurleys or not, they both are in excellent bargaining positions. I envy their agent.
PharmaJohnny
Member
Here's the twitter thread - he did say in a reply that he had "no clue" whether there would be an an announcement today or not:
PharmaJohnny
Member
Yep - just saw that - you beat me to it, Adam!
Nice post. Danny is probably laying back & keeping his eyes & ears open. He is in an excellent position with a strong team coming back & likelihood of better deals down the road, assuming he has an impressive coming season. Bobby, if he is truly a DePaul candidate, is ahead of the curve based on less HC experience, but seems to have sparked interest. Like the Hurleys or not, they both are in excellent bargaining positions. I envy their agent.
Agreed, Paultz. Your reasoning is exactly why I feel the timing is perfect, if we were to be in search of a new coach this year, to be aggressive and pounce on one of them now before they completely blow up beyond our reach. I do think that is where both of them are heading, but I do think one or both may be attainable for us now. After next year, not so sure.
Time for SJU to stop making this harder than it is. If we need a head basketball coach, let's hire one through and through. Not an assistant coach. Not someone in broadcasting for the previous 7 years. Not a former great player with no coaching experience on the college or any level. Not to say that any of these classifications couldn't succeed. But why complicate? Get a head coach with proven track record who is hungry and ready for a promotion. Simplify and I think we will be surprised by the results.
stjohnschris
Active member
Me, and thousands upon thousands of other young families. You couldn't pay me enough money to live and raise my kids in Ohio. I prefer the diversity, opportunity, and reality of NYC, Queens in particular.
jumbo_peanuts
Active member
But on the opposite side...
Myself, and thousands upon thousands of other young families would never even consider moving to NYC. Give me Ohio any day of the week. I prefer my 5 minute drive to the office every day. I prefer the quieter, simpler life.
Other than Howland (yes I admit it is a big one) all the other names mentioned are available.
I think the Hurleys (for example) may know through the million basketball contacts they have, that official news on Lavin not being brought back is coming very soon.
Why hasn't Bobby taken the DePaul job yet? Much the same reason Howland did not want it, because that job is worse than SJU's.
I think the Hurleys (for example) may know through the million basketball contacts they have, that official news on Lavin not being brought back is coming very soon.
Why hasn't Bobby taken the DePaul job yet? Much the same reason Howland did not want it, because that job is worse than SJU's.
i don't think anyone here dislikes Lavin the person, its hard too. He's engaging and personable and obviously has the gift of gab. But as an evolution of the program following the jarvis debacle we had 1) norm who cleaned up his mess and created stability, 2) Lavin who promoted and created a "brand" again. 3) now its time to move on and become something more. If you are comfortable with the RM debacle in the NIT, the Thomas crap this season, the pelle stuff, and the playing of 6 kids 40 minutes a night due to lazy recruiting then I don't know what to tell you. In my eyes there is no excuses. Lavins been a good soldier, make it quick and painless and move on. If its bobby hurley and you aren't satisfied with his track record so far I can tell you the ceiling is higher for sure. Whatever is decided , ill still root for the team , even next seasons lacking roster.
jumbo_peanuts
Active member
Who's to say that Lavin doesn't already know his fate? He may already be aware of the decision, but maybe they are waiting to make an announcement until all of the final details are worked out. Whatever decision is made, I'm sure Lavin will know way before anyone in the media finds out.