Lavin parting ways with St.John's

I'm cutting and pasting a text I just received from someone who has been reliable with his info in the past. I'm not vouching for it, just sharing what I just got in a text.

"Lavin deal done in principle. Today's twitter rumors bull shit. Negotiating length, terms of extension. Diallo down to Iowa State and SJU. Johnnies in very good shape for Papagiannis. Sju waffling on Lavin is perception vs reality"

And for what it's worth he also sent me this;

"Sju signee Samir Doughty named philly public school player of the year.
sju commit Brandon Sampson Louisiana 1A outstanding player of the year."
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Mussini to St. John's is very, much in play! We're still probably a few months away before hearing anything definitive.

For the one's writing off the 2015 recruiting class.... Currently, the class would leave us in a serious jam. Write it off as when it's been finalized. Still some "if's," per the class, but we're definitely in the "thick of things" when it comes to Diallo, Papagiannis, and Mussini. If they aren't a part of the class, and we're without Jordan and Obekpa, then it'll be ugly.

Otherwise, let's see how the class materializes. By the way, along with Sampson, the three above-mentioned players would give us four high-level recruits.
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If Jordan and CO stay, which I think they will, then a class of Sampson, Doughty, Thompkins, Diallo and Papagiiannis would be excellent. we would have a very good team next year. If Mussini is a real question mark I will take the kid Randall, I like his size for a PG at 6'4. Add Albigovic, ADR and Felix. that's an NCAA team. Fingers crossed.
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Agree team would have good personnel. But a whole new, young team coached by Lavin is doubtful for an NCAA bid. Can you imagine the experimenting and tinkering Lavin would do with that team? Jell by the following season, maybe.
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The problem is that by the following season Diallo and Papa may be gone, and so the cycle continues. But I'm getting ahead of myself.
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Agreed Monte, but, if they leave and go to the NBA after next season they go with CO and Sheed which probably means that we had a very good year and the more guys Lavin puts in the NBA the better it is for Lavin when he recruits. I agree the cycle continues but that's how the college game is now when you go after players at a certain level.
 
Agreed Monte, but, if they leave and go to the NBA after next season they go with CO and Sheed which probably means that we had a very good year and the more guys Lavin puts in the NBA the better it is for Lavin when he recruits. I agree the cycle continues but that's how the college game is now when you go after players at a certain level.[/quote]

Look, I agree that developing NBA player help to recruit, sort of like if you date a super model your chances of landing another model will be high (see George Costanza). But lets be honest and set realistic goals. I want someone with a plan and recruits assets for the plan, not someone that has their own plan and makes decision to benefit themselves. I want players that will bleed for our team.
 
I'm cutting and pasting a text I just received from someone who has been reliable with his info in the past. I'm not vouching for it, just sharing what I just got in a text.

"Lavin deal done in principle. Today's twitter rumors bull shit. Negotiating length, terms of extension. Diallo down to Iowa State and SJU. Johnnies in very good shape for Papagiannis. Sju waffling on Lavin is perception vs reality"

And for what it's worth he also sent me this;

"Sju signee Samir Doughty named philly public school player of the year.
sju commit Brandon Sampson Louisiana 1A outstanding player of the year."
Click to expand...

Mussini to St. John's is very, much in play! We're still probably a few months away before hearing anything definitive.

For the one's writing off the 2015 recruiting class.... Currently, the class would leave us in a serious jam. Write it off as when it's been finalized. Still some "if's," per the class, but we're definitely in the "thick of things" when it comes to Diallo, Papagiannis, and Mussini. If they aren't a part of the class, and we're without Jordan and Obekpa, then it'll be ugly.

Otherwise, let's see how the class materializes. By the way, along with Sampson, the three above-mentioned players would give us four high-level recruits.
Click to expand...

If Jordan and CO stay, which I think they will, then a class of Sampson, Doughty, Thompkins, Diallo and Papagiiannis would be excellent. we would have a very good team next year. If Mussini is a real question mark I will take the kid Randall, I like his size for a PG at 6'4. Add Albigovic, ADR and Felix. that's an NCAA team. Fingers crossed.
Click to expand...
Agree team would have good personnel. But a whole new, young team coached by Lavin is doubtful for an NCAA bid. Can you imagine the experimenting and tinkering Lavin would do with that team? Jell by the following season, maybe.
Click to expand...

The problem is that by the following season Diallo and Papa may be gone, and so the cycle continues. But I'm getting ahead of myself.
Click to expand...
. That's another reason I like going after 4 star recruits instead of 5 star. 5 star recruits you are competing against Duke and Kentucky, they take a lot of time and effort to sign , they may be prima-donnas eyeing the NBA and they have to be replaced soon,
Click to expand...

Going after 5 stars? We should be going after 3 or 4 star players ranked in the Top 75-125 range who want to play here for 3 or 4 years, they want to be a part of a TEAM, and they are willing to buy into a program. Give me a Junior who was ranked 85 coming out of High School over a Freshman who was ranked 40 any day of the week.

I think some of you guys are having trouble grasping this but this is the way we will succeed.
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We have the BE, NYC and some other things we can use to recruit. There are things in Jamaica that will appeal to many kids. They need to find the right fits and coach the hell out of them. Everyone has been having this Archie Miller lovefest of late...he's a hell of a coach who succeeded without a top 10 recruit or recruiting class. In fact he had one 4 star recruit on the team, a 4-star recruit ranked 106th as a HS senior.
Do I think he needs more?...yup, but those one or two 4-star kids who choose to go to UD because their coach has success will mesh with his numerous three star kids to breed even more success. I would take a consistent top 25 recruiting class over being #1 for a year any day.
 
I'm cutting and pasting a text I just received from someone who has been reliable with his info in the past. I'm not vouching for it, just sharing what I just got in a text.

"Lavin deal done in principle. Today's twitter rumors bull shit. Negotiating length, terms of extension. Diallo down to Iowa State and SJU. Johnnies in very good shape for Papagiannis. Sju waffling on Lavin is perception vs reality"

And for what it's worth he also sent me this;

"Sju signee Samir Doughty named philly public school player of the year.
sju commit Brandon Sampson Louisiana 1A outstanding player of the year."
Click to expand...

Mussini to St. John's is very, much in play! We're still probably a few months away before hearing anything definitive.

For the one's writing off the 2015 recruiting class.... Currently, the class would leave us in a serious jam. Write it off as when it's been finalized. Still some "if's," per the class, but we're definitely in the "thick of things" when it comes to Diallo, Papagiannis, and Mussini. If they aren't a part of the class, and we're without Jordan and Obekpa, then it'll be ugly.

Otherwise, let's see how the class materializes. By the way, along with Sampson, the three above-mentioned players would give us four high-level recruits.
Click to expand...

If Jordan and CO stay, which I think they will, then a class of Sampson, Doughty, Thompkins, Diallo and Papagiiannis would be excellent. we would have a very good team next year. If Mussini is a real question mark I will take the kid Randall, I like his size for a PG at 6'4. Add Albigovic, ADR and Felix. that's an NCAA team. Fingers crossed.
Click to expand...
Agree team would have good personnel. But a whole new, young team coached by Lavin is doubtful for an NCAA bid. Can you imagine the experimenting and tinkering Lavin would do with that team? Jell by the following season, maybe.
Click to expand...

The problem is that by the following season Diallo and Papa may be gone, and so the cycle continues. But I'm getting ahead of myself.
Click to expand...
. That's another reason I like going after 4 star recruits instead of 5 star. 5 star recruits you are competing against Duke and Kentucky, they take a lot of time and effort to sign , they may be prima-donnas eyeing the NBA and they have to be replaced soon,
Click to expand...

Going after 5 stars? We should be going after 3 or 4 star players ranked in the Top 75-125 range who want to play here for 3 or 4 years, they want to be a part of a TEAM, and they are willing to buy into a program. Give me a Junior who was ranked 85 coming out of High School over a Freshman who was ranked 40 any day of the week.

I think some of you guys are having trouble grasping this but this is the way we will succeed.
Click to expand...

not so black and white IMO. maybe a mix of 3, 4 and 5 star recruits!?!?
Click to expand...

I think it is that black and white. If Lavin didn't put all his eggs into one basket with Briscoe and he focused on guys in that range he probably would have been able to land a couple of them giving us much more stability on the roster than we have right now.
 
I'm cutting and pasting a text I just received from someone who has been reliable with his info in the past. I'm not vouching for it, just sharing what I just got in a text.

"Lavin deal done in principle. Today's twitter rumors bull shit. Negotiating length, terms of extension. Diallo down to Iowa State and SJU. Johnnies in very good shape for Papagiannis. Sju waffling on Lavin is perception vs reality"

And for what it's worth he also sent me this;

"Sju signee Samir Doughty named philly public school player of the year.
sju commit Brandon Sampson Louisiana 1A outstanding player of the year."
Click to expand...

Mussini to St. John's is very, much in play! We're still probably a few months away before hearing anything definitive.

For the one's writing off the 2015 recruiting class.... Currently, the class would leave us in a serious jam. Write it off as when it's been finalized. Still some "if's," per the class, but we're definitely in the "thick of things" when it comes to Diallo, Papagiannis, and Mussini. If they aren't a part of the class, and we're without Jordan and Obekpa, then it'll be ugly.

Otherwise, let's see how the class materializes. By the way, along with Sampson, the three above-mentioned players would give us four high-level recruits.
Click to expand...

If Jordan and CO stay, which I think they will, then a class of Sampson, Doughty, Thompkins, Diallo and Papagiiannis would be excellent. we would have a very good team next year. If Mussini is a real question mark I will take the kid Randall, I like his size for a PG at 6'4. Add Albigovic, ADR and Felix. that's an NCAA team. Fingers crossed.
Click to expand...
Agree team would have good personnel. But a whole new, young team coached by Lavin is doubtful for an NCAA bid. Can you imagine the experimenting and tinkering Lavin would do with that team? Jell by the following season, maybe.
Click to expand...

The problem is that by the following season Diallo and Papa may be gone, and so the cycle continues. But I'm getting ahead of myself.
Click to expand...
. That's another reason I like going after 4 star recruits instead of 5 star. 5 star recruits you are competing against Duke and Kentucky, they take a lot of time and effort to sign , they may be prima-donnas eyeing the NBA and they have to be replaced soon,
Click to expand...

Going after 5 stars? We should be going after 3 or 4 star players ranked in the Top 75-125 range who want to play here for 3 or 4 years, they want to be a part of a TEAM, and they are willing to buy into a program. Give me a Junior who was ranked 85 coming out of High School over a Freshman who was ranked 40 any day of the week.

I think some of you guys are having trouble grasping this but this is the way we will succeed.
Click to expand...

not so black and white IMO. maybe a mix of 3, 4 and 5 star recruits!?!?
Click to expand...

I think it is that black and white. If Lavin didn't put all his eggs into one basket with Briscoe and he focused on guys in that range he probably would have been able to land a couple of them giving us much more stability on the roster than we have right now.
Click to expand...

there's no logic to just saying "I'm going after only 5 star players." or "I'm only going after guys who want to play four years and are 3 stars." the mistake of not balancing the roster doesn't have to do with the quality of players. Yes, he tried to punch above his weight but we had other factors which led to the roster being so thin. And it's going to hit us where it hurts next season
 
Getting guys to the NBA helps bring in better talent who all want to go to the NBA.

Winning fills seats and increases revenue.

The school wants wins and revenue, and increased enrollment.

Lavin at $2 million plus hasn't fulfilled SJU goals for his position.
 
Change is good, but difficult most often.
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Change didn't work at Tennessee.
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Change has not worked at St John's
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I would describe what has gone on at SJU as TURMOIL
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I just don't agree, @frank61. I understand, but I don't agree.

I'm just as anxious as anyone and I understand that we all want a resolution, but taking a week after being eliminated to work out whether to extend and if so, how to structure a multi-year, multimillion dollar contract is not long at all. It actually strikes me as necessary.
 
there's no logic to just saying "I'm going after only 5 star players." or "I'm only going after guys who want to play four years and are 3 stars." the mistake of not balancing the roster doesn't have to do with the quality of players. Yes, he tried to punch above his weight but we had other factors which led to the roster being so thin. And it's going to hit us where it hurts next season[/quote]

Factor which were all due to decision he made and a result of a poor strategy. IMO, all of which are self inflicted and should not be used as excuses..... At the end of the day, I think Lavin was offered an extension with a significant pay cut, I think his agent is telling advising that a better deal in television with less stress is possible, so right now they are fishing.
 
I'm going to take a stab at this and think that there is a negotiation ongoing for an extension, but tat the terms are an impediment. I'm guessing that means the board, knowing that a $ 2 million buyout is so high that it's an impediment to firing him. So, if I was negotiating, I'd want to cut that in half at least, and then extend him for 3 additional seasons. I would clean house on the high priced staff, which hasn't yielded great results, and also try to reduce his salary, or at least restructure it so that he gets bonuses based on NCAA tournament appearances and other quantifiable things. IF they can get the base down to 1.5-1.8 but load it up with incentives, that could be fair. They can play hardball, or at least be pragmatic and say, rather then commit to $10 million over the next four years, let him walk for $2 million after the next season and start over. In the event of a buyout, he can either hangout, have a crap season, and his price tag goes down, or accept a lower buyout and leave now if he is not inclined to take a restructured extension.

The above circumstances could be why this is dragging along.
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I too believe an extension has been offered and it's all about terms. The other factor is that Lavin knows full well that given the likely roster, next year is almost certain to be a horror show. If I was him, I want guaranteed money to endure the derision he's going to be subjected to. I'd also be all over that Arizona State gig, where the pay is about the same and the expectations will be much lower. Or a return to the broadcasting booth.
 
you want a malik boothe type over taking a stab at IB and finishing in the top two...to each his own. I do not like Lavin at all but the one thing i'll give him credit for is getting after top talent. I like that
 
Getting guys to the NBA helps bring in better talent who all want to go to the NBA.

Winning fills seats and increases revenue.

The school wants wins and revenue, and increased enrollment.

Lavin at $2 million plus hasn't fulfilled SJU goals for his position.
Click to expand...

Is that why Damian Lillard went to Weber State? Because of all the previous Weber State players going to the NBA. Is that why Curry went to Davidson?

I honestly don't believe that kids decide on a college because of how many players the coach has sent to the NBA. Kids might say that, but I don't take it as truth. If you are good enough for the league, people are going to know about you, regardless of where you go to school.

The only scenario where that argument might be true is Kentucky, and that's just because of their pro day. If any of those kids had went somewhere else, they would still be in the same draft position.

If a kid is going to make it in the NBA, he is going to make it in the NBA, regardless of their coach.
 
Rothstein talking Johnnies on Wfan, said he hopes to get an answer today. Will address if he thinks Lavin should be back after the break.
 
The announcement will be coming shortly. Coach Lavin is out from St.Johns
I was his supporter and I am not happy with the decision. Now i am looking forward to see his replacement. Hopefully the university will make smart call.
 
Rothstein; Obepka would have NOT made a difference in The SDS game. It was a bad match up for SJU.[/quote

Don't agree. I think they just got lucky from 3. Happens some times.
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Some guy called in and said that Nova has better facilities and a nicer campus than ours.

Was that Beast ???


LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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