Lavin parting ways with St.John's

[Pouchie29]

If this drags on through the weekend I may go crazy at what a joke we are.

Why does it have to be "we", maybe its Lavin.... Check my post, he might be taking a longer time getting adjusted to the conditions of the contract, since his pay has to be adjusted to what is reasonable, he is not a top 25 coach nor should he be paid like one.

 

[salty dog]

They are coordinating Lavin and Diallo's signing together.

 

[lawmanfan]

Relax, guys. Just relax. It will sort itself out soon enough

.

 

[jumbo_peanuts]

Paultz your avatar has me officially thinking he is being fired

Or I'm moving to Borneo.

We'll miss ya, Paultz. But Borneo is beautiful this time of year!!

And please, while you're there, keep your eyes and ears open for potential recruits!

No need to. Lavin's already all over Borneo.

 

[RM86]

Change is good, but difficult most often.

Change didn't work at Tennessee.

 

[PharmaJohnny]

Relax, guys. Just relax. It will sort itself out soon enough

.

Ahh, the voice of reason. A rare sight - not just here, but anywhere on the interwebs. Thanks for that, @lawmanfan - it's what we all need to do. Just R-E-L-A-X.

 

[beast of the east]

I'm going to take a stab at this and think that there is a negotiation ongoing for an extension, but tat the terms are an impediment. I'm guessing that means the board, knowing that a $ 2 million buyout is so high that it's an impediment to firing him. So, if I was negotiating, I'd want to cut that in half at least, and then extend him for 3 additional seasons. I would clean house on the high priced staff, which hasn't yielded great results, and also try to reduce his salary, or at least restructure it so that he gets bonuses based on NCAA tournament appearances and other quantifiable things. IF they can get the base down to 1.5-1.8 but load it up with incentives, that could be fair. They can play hardball, or at least be pragmatic and say, rather then commit to $10 million over the next four years, let him walk for $2 million after the next season and start over. In the event of a buyout, he can either hangout, have a crap season, and his price tag goes down, or accept a lower buyout and leave now if he is not inclined to take a restructured extension.

The above circumstances could be why this is dragging along.

 

[ccnobz]

If you look at if from the school's eyes the coach is here 5 seasons, 2 Ncaa bids, #1 seed in Nit, sent 2 players to Nba, 3 20 win seasons, and has 2 returning players who have a shot to play in the Nba. As fans we want more, but that body of work isn't terrible.

 

[sirvoo]

If you look at if from the school's eyes the coach is here 5 seasons, 2 Ncaa bids, #1 seed in Nit, sent 2 players to Nba, 3 20 win seasons, and has 2 returning players who have a shot to play in the Nba. As fans we want more, but that body of work isn't terrible.

i agree the results are acceptable based on two ncaa appearances but those two players you mentioned are more likely to leave than stay IMO. so therein lies my dilemma. really he's left with B Sampson, Samir, amar, jones, ADR, stewart, and balamou.

if we had more talent I would be all over extending him. instead im dreading next year and think we should move on. just my opinion, we are really barren in the talent department and he had two years to kind of figure this out and get impact players. on my count we could potentially have only one player of that caliber next yr.

 

[ccnobz]

If you look at if from the school's eyes the coach is here 5 seasons, 2 Ncaa bids, #1 seed in Nit, sent 2 players to Nba, 3 20 win seasons, and has 2 returning players who have a shot to play in the Nba. As fans we want more, but that body of work isn't terrible.

i agree the results are acceptable based on two ncaa appearances but those two players you mentioned are more likely to leave than stay IMO. so therein lies my dilemma. really he's left with B Sampson, Samir, amar, jones, ADR, stewart, and balamou.

if we had more talent I would be all over extending him. instead im dreading next year and think we should move on. just my opinion, we are really barren in the talent department and he had two years so kind of figure this out and get impact players. on my count we could potentially have only one player of that caliber next yr.

All true, if those two don't come back we are looking at 4-14 in the BE next season.

 

[sirvoo]

If you look at if from the school's eyes the coach is here 5 seasons, 2 Ncaa bids, #1 seed in Nit, sent 2 players to Nba, 3 20 win seasons, and has 2 returning players who have a shot to play in the Nba. As fans we want more, but that body of work isn't terrible.

i agree the results are acceptable based on two ncaa appearances but those two players you mentioned are more likely to leave than stay IMO. so therein lies my dilemma. really he's left with B Sampson, Samir, amar, jones, ADR, stewart, and balamou.

if we had more talent I would be all over extending him. instead im dreading next year and think we should move on. just my opinion, we are really barren in the talent department and he had two years so kind of figure this out and get impact players. on my count we could potentially have only one player of that caliber next yr.

All true, if those two don't come back we are looking at 4-14 in the BE next season.

Yep and that's where all this uncertainty comes from. If we don't extend him he's a lame duck coach and basically waste a year of rebuilding.

If we extend him and we stink next year, people are STILL going to call for his head..in my mind that also constitutes wasting a year of rebuilding.

If we start over this offseason we still are going to stink next year but there's at least the notion of moving forward with a new face of the program.

all scenarios lead to us stinking next year which...well, stinks!

 

[doodyny33]

If you look at if from the school's eyes the coach is here 5 seasons, 2 Ncaa bids, #1 seed in Nit, sent 2 players to Nba, 3 20 win seasons, and has 2 returning players who have a shot to play in the Nba. As fans we want more, but that body of work isn't terrible.

I agree, but IMO there are a few more factors that are in play here. First, a lot of negative press about this team the past few years (suspensions, academically ineligible players). Second, his recruiting has been terrible the past couple of years.

 

[Pouchie29]

If you look at if from the school's eyes the coach is here 5 seasons, 2 Ncaa bids, #1 seed in Nit, sent 2 players to Nba, 3 20 win seasons, and has 2 returning players who have a shot to play in the Nba. As fans we want more, but that body of work isn't terrible.

Honestly, does anyone care if we have Zero NBA players? I would take Wisconsin success in a heartbeat and they have only had 1 player drafted in 20+ years.

 

[OLV72]

Change is good, but difficult most often.

Change didn't work at Tennessee.

Change has not worked at St John's

 

[Knight]

Change is good, but difficult most often.

Seeing the avatars that Paultz uses and a careful reading of tea leaves has revealed the indisputable, Paul is dead.
:silly:

 

[ras]

I'm cutting and pasting a text I just received from someone who has been reliable with his info in the past. I'm not vouching for it, just sharing what I just got in a text.

"Lavin deal done in principle. Today's twitter rumors bull shit. Negotiating length, terms of extension. Diallo down to Iowa State and SJU. Johnnies in very good shape for Papagiannis. Sju waffling on Lavin is perception vs reality"

And for what it's worth he also sent me this;

"Sju signee Samir Doughty named philly public school player of the year.
sju commit Brandon Sampson Louisiana 1A outstanding player of the year."

Mussini to St. John's is very, much in play! We're still probably a few months away before hearing anything definitive.

For the one's writing off the 2015 recruiting class.... Currently, the class would leave us in a serious jam. Write it off as when it's been finalized. Still some "if's," per the class, but we're definitely in the "thick of things" when it comes to Diallo, Papagiannis, and Mussini. If they aren't a part of the class, and we're without Jordan and Obekpa, then it'll be ugly.

Otherwise, let's see how the class materializes. By the way, along with Sampson, the three above-mentioned players would give us four high-level recruits.

If Jordan and CO stay, which I think they will, then a class of Sampson, Doughty, Thompkins, Diallo and Papagiiannis would be excellent. we would have a very good team next year. If Mussini is a real question mark I will take the kid Randall, I like his size for a PG at 6'4. Add Albigovic, ADR and Felix. that's an NCAA team. Fingers crossed.

Agree team would have good personnel. But a whole new, young team coached by Lavin is doubtful for an NCAA bid. Can you imagine the experimenting and tinkering Lavin would do with that team? Jell by the following season, maybe.

The problem is that by the following season Diallo and Papa may be gone, and so the cycle continues. But I'm getting ahead of myself.

. That's another reason I like going after 4 star recruits instead of 5 star. 5 star recruits you are competing against Duke and Kentucky, they take a lot of time and effort to sign , they may be prima-donnas eyeing the NBA and they have to be replaced soon,

 

[ccnobz]

If you look at if from the school's eyes the coach is here 5 seasons, 2 Ncaa bids, #1 seed in Nit, sent 2 players to Nba, 3 20 win seasons, and has 2 returning players who have a shot to play in the Nba. As fans we want more, but that body of work isn't terrible.

Honestly, does anyone care if we have Zero NBA players? I would take Wisconsin success in a heartbeat and they have only had 1 player drafted in 20+ years.

High school kids want to play in the Nba, I bet that is a recruiting tool Lavin uses. He does send kids to the Nba, Ucla and here.

 

[BuckNasty85]

I'm cutting and pasting a text I just received from someone who has been reliable with his info in the past. I'm not vouching for it, just sharing what I just got in a text.

"Lavin deal done in principle. Today's twitter rumors bull shit. Negotiating length, terms of extension. Diallo down to Iowa State and SJU. Johnnies in very good shape for Papagiannis. Sju waffling on Lavin is perception vs reality"

And for what it's worth he also sent me this;

"Sju signee Samir Doughty named philly public school player of the year.
sju commit Brandon Sampson Louisiana 1A outstanding player of the year."

Mussini to St. John's is very, much in play! We're still probably a few months away before hearing anything definitive.

For the one's writing off the 2015 recruiting class.... Currently, the class would leave us in a serious jam. Write it off as when it's been finalized. Still some "if's," per the class, but we're definitely in the "thick of things" when it comes to Diallo, Papagiannis, and Mussini. If they aren't a part of the class, and we're without Jordan and Obekpa, then it'll be ugly.

Otherwise, let's see how the class materializes. By the way, along with Sampson, the three above-mentioned players would give us four high-level recruits.

If Jordan and CO stay, which I think they will, then a class of Sampson, Doughty, Thompkins, Diallo and Papagiiannis would be excellent. we would have a very good team next year. If Mussini is a real question mark I will take the kid Randall, I like his size for a PG at 6'4. Add Albigovic, ADR and Felix. that's an NCAA team. Fingers crossed.

Agree team would have good personnel. But a whole new, young team coached by Lavin is doubtful for an NCAA bid. Can you imagine the experimenting and tinkering Lavin would do with that team? Jell by the following season, maybe.

The problem is that by the following season Diallo and Papa may be gone, and so the cycle continues. But I'm getting ahead of myself.

. That's another reason I like going after 4 star recruits instead of 5 star. 5 star recruits you are competing against Duke and Kentucky, they take a lot of time and effort to sign , they may be prima-donnas eyeing the NBA and they have to be replaced soon,

Going after 5 stars? We should be going after 3 or 4 star players ranked in the Top 75-125 range who want to play here for 3 or 4 years, they want to be a part of a TEAM, and they are willing to buy into a program. Give me a Junior who was ranked 85 coming out of High School over a Freshman who was ranked 40 any day of the week.

I think some of you guys are having trouble grasping this but this is the way we will succeed.

 

[sirvoo]

I'm cutting and pasting a text I just received from someone who has been reliable with his info in the past. I'm not vouching for it, just sharing what I just got in a text.

"Lavin deal done in principle. Today's twitter rumors bull shit. Negotiating length, terms of extension. Diallo down to Iowa State and SJU. Johnnies in very good shape for Papagiannis. Sju waffling on Lavin is perception vs reality"

And for what it's worth he also sent me this;

"Sju signee Samir Doughty named philly public school player of the year.
sju commit Brandon Sampson Louisiana 1A outstanding player of the year."

Mussini to St. John's is very, much in play! We're still probably a few months away before hearing anything definitive.

For the one's writing off the 2015 recruiting class.... Currently, the class would leave us in a serious jam. Write it off as when it's been finalized. Still some "if's," per the class, but we're definitely in the "thick of things" when it comes to Diallo, Papagiannis, and Mussini. If they aren't a part of the class, and we're without Jordan and Obekpa, then it'll be ugly.

Otherwise, let's see how the class materializes. By the way, along with Sampson, the three above-mentioned players would give us four high-level recruits.

If Jordan and CO stay, which I think they will, then a class of Sampson, Doughty, Thompkins, Diallo and Papagiiannis would be excellent. we would have a very good team next year. If Mussini is a real question mark I will take the kid Randall, I like his size for a PG at 6'4. Add Albigovic, ADR and Felix. that's an NCAA team. Fingers crossed.

Agree team would have good personnel. But a whole new, young team coached by Lavin is doubtful for an NCAA bid. Can you imagine the experimenting and tinkering Lavin would do with that team? Jell by the following season, maybe.

The problem is that by the following season Diallo and Papa may be gone, and so the cycle continues. But I'm getting ahead of myself.

. That's another reason I like going after 4 star recruits instead of 5 star. 5 star recruits you are competing against Duke and Kentucky, they take a lot of time and effort to sign , they may be prima-donnas eyeing the NBA and they have to be replaced soon,

Going after 5 stars? We should be going after 3 or 4 star players ranked in the Top 75-125 range who want to play here for 3 or 4 years, they want to be a part of a TEAM, and they are willing to buy into a program. Give me a Junior who was ranked 85 coming out of High School over a Freshman who was ranked 40 any day of the week.

I think some of you guys are having trouble grasping this but this is the way we will succeed.

not so black and white IMO. maybe a mix of 3, 4 and 5 star recruits!?!?

 

[Pouchie29]

If you look at if from the school's eyes the coach is here 5 seasons, 2 Ncaa bids, #1 seed in Nit, sent 2 players to Nba, 3 20 win seasons, and has 2 returning players who have a shot to play in the Nba. As fans we want more, but that body of work isn't terrible.

Honestly, does anyone care if we have Zero NBA players? I would take Wisconsin success in a heartbeat and they have only had 1 player drafted in 20+ years.

High school kids want to play in the Nba, I bet that is a recruiting tool Lavin uses. He does send kids to the Nba, Ucla and here.

So how is that been working out the last few years? If you were negotiating his contract and he brought up NBA players, what would you say? I would tell him that I'm looking for things that benefit our program, currently NBA caliber players seem to be hurting his performance. I want a guy with vision, that has a plan and system, who recruits player to fill needs. Not someone that targets unobtainable 5 stars and hopes to be luck 10% of the time, but uses 75 of his time to recruit them.