Lavin parting ways with St.John's

[NYCRedmen]

It's official. Regardless of what the decision will be, this could have been handled better.

We have several open scholarships and two players deciding whether to return. It is also getting ridiculously late in the recruiting cycle and we blew off an entire week. We have also furthered the perception that the program is a circus show. (see J. Rothstein's piece today)

President Bobby did NOT step up.

Guess we will "just let it play out".

Can you share a link of that piece

 

[monte]

In Lavins defense he does seem to have a really special relationship with the seniors

He does. Maybe he's not on great terms with all these bench players

Or maybe they're unhappy about playing time

Thats why its really important to identify and then recruit kids who can actually contribute at this level. It does no one any good to bring kids in who are better suited for much lower level of competition.

Problem is no one knows -- regardless of scouting hype and guru rankings -- who will "actually contribute at this level." We were all disappointed when 5-star Jermaine Lawrence picked Manhattan over St. John's after an abysmal freshman season at Cincinnati. Who knew that his time at Manhattan would be even worse, putting up insignificant stats and then being dropped for the final six games or so of the season for violating team rules (sound familiar?). And many of us wanted Jon Severe, another highly touted local kid, who's been a total -- and disruptive -- bust at Fordham (let alone at the BE level). And five-star Isaiah Whitehead has proved to be anything but a one-and-done talent. Bottom line: Identifying talent isn't such an easy thing to do; and sometimes taking kids who are projected as being "better suited" for a lower level of play turn out to be hidden gems.

I hear you, but coaches and scouts are getting paid to evaluate talent and find some diamonds in the rough. We are not. While its not an exact science, some coaches are better then others. We do not happen to have one of those coaches.

 

[JohnnyFan]

It's official. Regardless of what the decision will be, this could have been handled better.

We have several open scholarships and two players deciding whether to return. It is also getting ridiculously late in the recruiting cycle and we blew off an entire week. We have also furthered the perception that the program is a circus show. (see J. Rothstein's piece today)

President Bobby did NOT step up.

Guess we will "just let it play out".

Can you share a link of that piece

Sure. Scroll down to #3 in the article. It's not pretty.

Link: http://www.cbssports.com/collegebas...nsin-may-have-toughest-road-to-the-final-four

 

[JohnnyFan]

"I've always wondered why St. John's hasn't won an NCAA Tournament game since 1999. Now I think I'm beginning to understand. If you don't have an administration that has clarity and is in order, you can't win basketball games. The two go hand in hand."

-Jon Rothstein of CBS Sports

 

[simplyred]

"I've always wondered why St. John's hasn't won an NCAA Tournament game since 1999. Now I think I'm beginning to understand. If you don't have an administration that has clarity and is in order, you can't win basketball games. The two go hand in hand."

-Jon Rothstein of CBS Sports

If they were gonna find a suitable replacement for Lavin, this has pretty much killed it.

 

[monte]

It's official. Regardless of what the decision will be, this could have been handled better.

We have several open scholarships and two players deciding whether to return. It is also getting ridiculously late in the recruiting cycle and we blew off an entire week. We have also furthered the perception that the program is a circus show. (see J. Rothstein's piece today)

President Bobby did NOT step up. Guess we will "just let it play out".

JF its been less than a week since we were eliminated. I'll assume the school did not start a dialogue till this week. I'm also gonna assume that the school and Lavin have a difference of opinion as to Lavin's worth and to the type of extension he deserves. Pres Bobby may very well have this as a priority but this may just take a bit more time then any of us would like.

 

[redfan259999888]

"I've always wondered why St. John's hasn't won an NCAA Tournament game since 1999. Now I think I'm beginning to understand. If you don't have an administration that has clarity and is in order, you can't win basketball games. The two go hand in hand."

-Jon Rothstein of CBS Sports

SJU is sad

 

[Red.Fans]

I hear you, but coaches and scouts are getting paid to evaluate talent and find some diamonds in the rough. We are not. While its not an exact science, some coaches are better then others. We do not happen to have one of those coaches.

I mostly agree with you but Amar could end up being a solid 4 year player and his incoming stats made no indication of that. It will be very interesting to see what kind of work he puts in off-season. Even better if he gets his sharp shooter cousin to come to St Johns.

 

[boo haarvey]

Sometimes it's not easy to find your groove when you get pulled from the game right away. Then you don't see the floor in a game again for a month. If Felix was thrown into the fire like PG4 was as a frosh and got a guaranteed 30 plus a game, you'd see a difference in Felix' game... Lavin had his favs and they saw the minutes even when they should not have

I was surprised that Balamou didn't get any burn in the tournament game. Was that due to his injury?

Had nothing to do with an injury...very upset about it.... I personally would've put him in b4 jdr.. Granted I'd put keady in b4 jdr

I thought it was strange that lavin started Balamou for the stretch of games they won without Obekpa. During that stretch branch didn't get much pt. Then in the tournament Balamou didn't sniff a minute and branch played the entire game. It's almost as if lavin gives out pt based on the days intuition.

 

[MJDinkins]

I'm cutting and pasting a text I just received from someone who has been reliable with his info in the past. I'm not vouching for it, just sharing what I just got in a text.

"Lavin deal done in principle. Today's twitter rumors bull shit. Negotiating length, terms of extension. Diallo down to Iowa State and SJU. Johnnies in very good shape for Papagiannis. Sju waffling on Lavin is perception vs reality"

And for what it's worth he also sent me this;

"Sju signee Samir Doughty named philly public school player of the year.
sju commit Brandon Sampson Louisiana 1A outstanding player of the year."

Mussini to St. John's is very, much in play! We're still probably a few months away before hearing anything definitive.

For the one's writing off the 2015 recruiting class.... Currently, the class would leave us in a serious jam. Write it off as when it's been finalized. Still some "if's," per the class, but we're definitely in the "thick of things" when it comes to Diallo, Papagiannis, and Mussini. If they aren't a part of the class, and we're without Jordan and Obekpa, then it'll be ugly.

Otherwise, let's see how the class materializes. By the way, along with Sampson, the three above-mentioned players would give us four high-level recruits.

 

[rawdognyc]

whatever you want to fault Lavin for if CJ and FB are complaining they've got no legs to stand on. They had a bunch of opportunities to shine and we really could have used both of them. CJ is one of the most frustrating players I've ever watched at St John's. He looks like he's bored and got better things to do every time he's on the floor. How many rebounds did CJ stand and watch, or two footers did FB miss when they got PT? I thought a lot higher of FB coming into this season than most but he really did not maximize his opportunities and that is on him. In a season where we were desperate for muscle, CJ was a limp noodle.

Respectfully disagree when it comes to FB... I saw him play a few times at osna...The kid has BE skills... He is probably the fastest on the court at any given time and has the best hops at any given time... He is very raw.. Hasn't been playing anywhere near as long as some of these other guys. Coaching and consistency is what would take FB to another level in his game. Neither of which he has received so far at St Johns... I agree with you on CJ though...

 

[mjmaherjr]

I'm cutting and pasting a text I just received from someone who has been reliable with his info in the past. I'm not vouching for it, just sharing what I just got in a text.

"Lavin deal done in principle. Today's twitter rumors bull shit. Negotiating length, terms of extension. Diallo down to Iowa State and SJU. Johnnies in very good shape for Papagiannis. Sju waffling on Lavin is perception vs reality"

And for what it's worth he also sent me this;

"Sju signee Samir Doughty named philly public school player of the year.
sju commit Brandon Sampson Louisiana 1A outstanding player of the year."

Mussini to St. John's is very, much in play! We're still probably a few months away before hearing anything definitive.

For the one's writing off the 2015 recruiting class.... Currently, the class would leave us in a serious jam. Write it off as when it's been finalized. Still some "if's," per the class, but we're definitely in the "thick of things" when it comes to Diallo, Papagiannis, and Mussini. If they aren't a part of the class, and we're without Jordan and Obekpa, then it'll be ugly.

Otherwise, let's see how the class materializes. By the way, along with Sampson, the three above-mentioned players would give us four high-level recruits.

whatever happened with the power forward from finland ?

 

[paultzman]

I'm cutting and pasting a text I just received from someone who has been reliable with his info in the past. I'm not vouching for it, just sharing what I just got in a text.

"Lavin deal done in principle. Today's twitter rumors bull shit. Negotiating length, terms of extension. Diallo down to Iowa State and SJU. Johnnies in very good shape for Papagiannis. Sju waffling on Lavin is perception vs reality"

And for what it's worth he also sent me this;

"Sju signee Samir Doughty named philly public school player of the year.
sju commit Brandon Sampson Louisiana 1A outstanding player of the year."

Mussini to St. John's is very, much in play! We're still probably a few months away before hearing anything definitive.

For the one's writing off the 2015 recruiting class.... Currently, the class would leave us in a serious jam. Write it off as when it's been finalized. Still some "if's," per the class, but we're definitely in the "thick of things" when it comes to Diallo, Papagiannis, and Mussini. If they aren't a part of the class, and we're without Jordan and Obekpa, then it'll be ugly.

Otherwise, let's see how the class materializes. By the way, along with Sampson, the three above-mentioned players would give us four high-level recruits.

whatever happened with the power forward from finland ?

16 kid most likely a lock for North Carolina. His father played for Roy Williams at Kansas.

 

[MJDinkins]

I'm cutting and pasting a text I just received from someone who has been reliable with his info in the past. I'm not vouching for it, just sharing what I just got in a text.

"Lavin deal done in principle. Today's twitter rumors bull shit. Negotiating length, terms of extension. Diallo down to Iowa State and SJU. Johnnies in very good shape for Papagiannis. Sju waffling on Lavin is perception vs reality"

And for what it's worth he also sent me this;

"Sju signee Samir Doughty named philly public school player of the year.
sju commit Brandon Sampson Louisiana 1A outstanding player of the year."

Mussini to St. John's is very, much in play! We're still probably a few months away before hearing anything definitive.

For the one's writing off the 2015 recruiting class.... Currently, the class would leave us in a serious jam. Write it off as when it's been finalized. Still some "if's," per the class, but we're definitely in the "thick of things" when it comes to Diallo, Papagiannis, and Mussini. If they aren't a part of the class, and we're without Jordan and Obekpa, then it'll be ugly.

Otherwise, let's see how the class materializes. By the way, along with Sampson, the three above-mentioned players would give us four high-level recruits.

whatever happened with the power forward from finland ?

Is he the player Bobby Knight fabricated many years ago?

 

[Red.Fans]

whatever you want to fault Lavin for if CJ and FB are complaining they've got no legs to stand on. They had a bunch of opportunities to shine and we really could have used both of them. CJ is one of the most frustrating players I've ever watched at St John's. He looks like he's bored and got better things to do every time he's on the floor. How many rebounds did CJ stand and watch, or two footers did FB miss when they got PT? I thought a lot higher of FB coming into this season than most but he really did not maximize his opportunities and that is on him. In a season where we were desperate for muscle, CJ was a limp noodle.

Respectfully disagree when it comes to FB... I saw him play a few times at osna...The kid has BE skills... He is probably the fastest on the court at any given time and has the best hops at any given time... He is very raw.. Hasn't been playing anywhere near as long as some of these other guys. Coaching and consistency is what would take FB to another level in his game. Neither of which he has received so far at St Johns... I agree with you on CJ though...

we don't disagree on that. Like I said, I thought highly of him. He didn't give any bad minutes LAST season. He took advantage of his limited opportunities and minimized mistakes. This season he did not maximize his opportunities and he did get plenty of them. If he really wanted to take PT from seniors he had to come out and give the coach no other choice. Can you honestly say that he did?

 

[JohnnyFan]

It's official. Regardless of what the decision will be, this could have been handled better.

We have several open scholarships and two players deciding whether to return. It is also getting ridiculously late in the recruiting cycle and we blew off an entire week. We have also furthered the perception that the program is a circus show. (see J. Rothstein's piece today)

President Bobby did NOT step up. Guess we will "just let it play out".

JF its been less than a week since we were eliminated. I'll assume the school did not start a dialogue till this week. I'm also gonna assume that the school and Lavin have a difference of opinion as to Lavin's worth and to the type of extension he deserves. Pres Bobby may very well have this as a priority but this may just take a bit more time then any of us would like.

Understood. However, if that's the case, you come out with a statement that provides a sense of stability and order. Something like......"The university is in negotiations with Coach Lavin, as we look forward to him guiding our program beyond his current contract" This would help with recruits, their families and handlers. If negotiations then fall through, so be it.

Still, this all should have been worked out weeks ago. If the administration was unsure about Lavin and wanted to see how the season ended, then why are we extending him? After all, he ended the season with a drug suspension, three awful losses and a lackluster recruiting class.

 

[redken]

I'm cutting and pasting a text I just received from someone who has been reliable with his info in the past. I'm not vouching for it, just sharing what I just got in a text.

"Lavin deal done in principle. Today's twitter rumors bull shit. Negotiating length, terms of extension. Diallo down to Iowa State and SJU. Johnnies in very good shape for Papagiannis. Sju waffling on Lavin is perception vs reality"

And for what it's worth he also sent me this;

"Sju signee Samir Doughty named philly public school player of the year.
sju commit Brandon Sampson Louisiana 1A outstanding player of the year."

Mussini to St. John's is very, much in play! We're still probably a few months away before hearing anything definitive.

For the one's writing off the 2015 recruiting class.... Currently, the class would leave us in a serious jam. Write it off as when it's been finalized. Still some "if's," per the class, but we're definitely in the "thick of things" when it comes to Diallo, Papagiannis, and Mussini. If they aren't a part of the class, and we're without Jordan and Obekpa, then it'll be ugly.

Otherwise, let's see how the class materializes. By the way, along with Sampson, the three above-mentioned players would give us four high-level recruits.

whatever happened with the power forward from finland ?

Is he the player Bobby Knight fabricated many years ago?

Is "fabricated" Finnish for "threw a chair at"?

 

[Knight]

Maybe this negotiation is more contentious then originally thought.

 

[monte]

It's official. Regardless of what the decision will be, this could have been handled better.

We have several open scholarships and two players deciding whether to return. It is also getting ridiculously late in the recruiting cycle and we blew off an entire week. We have also furthered the perception that the program is a circus show. (see J. Rothstein's piece today)

President Bobby did NOT step up. Guess we will "just let it play out".

JF its been less than a week since we were eliminated. I'll assume the school did not start a dialogue till this week. I'm also gonna assume that the school and Lavin have a difference of opinion as to Lavin's worth and to the type of extension he deserves. Pres Bobby may very well have this as a priority but this may just take a bit more time then any of us would like.

Understood. However, if that's the case, you come out with a statement that provides a sense of stability and order. Something like......"The university is in negotiations with Coach Lavin, as we look forward to him guiding our program beyond his current contract" This would help with recruits, their families and handlers. If negotiations then fall through, so be it.

Still, this all should have been worked out weeks ago. If the administration was unsure about Lavin and wanted to see how the season ended, then why are we extending him? After all, he ended the season with a drug suspension, three awful losses and a lackluster recruiting class.

My feeling is that Lavin did just barely enough for the school to offer him an extension which heavily protects them. Maybe no CO incident and/or a W or 2 in the tournament and its a different story. Lavin in all likelihood feels he deserves way more than what the school is offering.. And that's where they stand. By early next week this has to come to a head.

 

[rawdognyc]

whatever you want to fault Lavin for if CJ and FB are complaining they've got no legs to stand on. They had a bunch of opportunities to shine and we really could have used both of them. CJ is one of the most frustrating players I've ever watched at St John's. He looks like he's bored and got better things to do every time he's on the floor. How many rebounds did CJ stand and watch, or two footers did FB miss when they got PT? I thought a lot higher of FB coming into this season than most but he really did not maximize his opportunities and that is on him. In a season where we were desperate for muscle, CJ was a limp noodle.

Respectfully disagree when it comes to FB... I saw him play a few times at osna...The kid has BE skills... He is probably the fastest on the court at any given time and has the best hops at any given time... He is very raw.. Hasn't been playing anywhere near as long as some of these other guys. Coaching and consistency is what would take FB to another level in his game. Neither of which he has received so far at St Johns... I agree with you on CJ though...

we don't disagree on that. Like I said, I thought highly of him. He didn't give any bad minutes LAST season. He took advantage of his limited opportunities and minimized mistakes. This season he did not maximize his opportunities and he did get plenty of them. If he really wanted to take PT from seniors he had to come out and give the coach no other choice. Can you honestly say that he did?

Nope... I honestly saw a bit of regression on the offensive end when he got on the floor... I thought defensively he played really well... Hopefully he'll pull a Pointer next year