Kentucky game thread
- Thread starter mjmaherjr
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Class of 72
Active member
Disrespecting the dead is classless junior! Discuss the game or get lost!
Class of 72
Active member
The patch did not interfere with Nurideen mishandling the ball and not being able to create one shot for himself.
I actually feel bad for the kid but he seems to have a good attitude.
upstate redman
Member
Here is my take on the game. First off, GG was a beast, and played well. He still can be out of control at times, and misses too many bunnys, but I liked that he brought his hard hat, went to work, and this is one of the best frontcourts he will play against.
Moe makes it look easy, but also disappears. His potential is off the charts. He is still only in the 8th game of his college career! A more consistent shot, and a little more aggressiveness and hell be fine.
I am starting to really like Phil Greene. He is assertive, plays hard, handles the offense well, and has a nice stroke.
I like Sir Dom. He is not a BE player offensively, but he certainly is on the defensive side. He can hit shots, but I would like to see that, his handle, and his ability to finish improve. Here is my take on him -- if he never improves offensively, he will be a great guy to have in the future when we have depth and talent for his D, his athleticism and his spark off the bench. If his offense improves, watch out.
I really am down on Nuri and D'Angelo. The thing that scares me, is for 'top' talent, they cannot get their own shots off, nor shoot well, and they drive out of control and get blocked way too much. I don't care that they are freshmen because there problems stem from just being bad basketball sense and technique. After Zona I thought Nuri was going to be awesome besides his shot but lately he can't finish and is out of control. I really don't get whats up with Harrison.
Overall, I think this team has lots of talent and potential down the line, but they need size as we all know, depth, and a shooter. I also think they need one more guy with a handle. However, if Wood can shoot the lights out, with Greene at the point could be good in the future. I am not too optimistic about this year or next year without some studs.
However, In Lavin I Trust.
Moe makes it look easy, but also disappears. His potential is off the charts. He is still only in the 8th game of his college career! A more consistent shot, and a little more aggressiveness and hell be fine.
I am starting to really like Phil Greene. He is assertive, plays hard, handles the offense well, and has a nice stroke.
I like Sir Dom. He is not a BE player offensively, but he certainly is on the defensive side. He can hit shots, but I would like to see that, his handle, and his ability to finish improve. Here is my take on him -- if he never improves offensively, he will be a great guy to have in the future when we have depth and talent for his D, his athleticism and his spark off the bench. If his offense improves, watch out.
I really am down on Nuri and D'Angelo. The thing that scares me, is for 'top' talent, they cannot get their own shots off, nor shoot well, and they drive out of control and get blocked way too much. I don't care that they are freshmen because there problems stem from just being bad basketball sense and technique. After Zona I thought Nuri was going to be awesome besides his shot but lately he can't finish and is out of control. I really don't get whats up with Harrison.
Overall, I think this team has lots of talent and potential down the line, but they need size as we all know, depth, and a shooter. I also think they need one more guy with a handle. However, if Wood can shoot the lights out, with Greene at the point could be good in the future. I am not too optimistic about this year or next year without some studs.
However, In Lavin I Trust.
beast of the east
Active member
Like many people here, I am having a hard time controlling myself in a repsonse to you. I don't want to start naming names, because to do so without being inclusive would disrespect even the smallest contributor who gives to the University from their wont.
I didn't know the Tafners. I know people who did, and they weren't only generous to the University, they were beloved. They didn't ask for accolades, they just gave lavishly to the University. Like idiots, most of us have been critical of a certain donor who in a well publicized move, pulled his donation for a field house. I say idiots, and I'm one of those idiots, because that person, Jim Riley, was one of the most generous people, with his money and time, that the university has ever known.
When that well publicized debacle occurred (without us knowing all the facts) and the field house was in jeopardy, Don and Eleanor Tafner stepped in, already having given millions to the University, and in effect said, "We'll take care of the field house". They did it because they were exceptionally wonderful people, and loved the university.
The Tafners weren't born with silver spoons in their mouths, not that it would matter. They worked hard, and it wasn't until Don had the brainstorm of neogitating with the BBC for the rights to some programming that they could offer to US Networks, did they strike success - and "Three's Company", one of the most successful sitcoms in U.S. history, a Tafner production, was born.
The fieldhouse benefits students and all of the athletic teams. The renovation of CA, with great student sections, was done because of generous donors. All of the buildings on campus were paid for through the generosity of donors. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US WHO ATTENDED SJU BENEFITTED BY REDUCED TUITITION, SCHOLARSHIPS, AND GRANTS BECAUSE OF THE GENEROSITY OF DONORS. (caps intended)
In my day, SJU tuition was so much cheaper than other private schools, because of donors. I couldn't have afforded to go to a private school anywhere else. In my youth, I wasn't thankful enough. I'm still not, but slowly coming to full realization of that fact. Like you, I knew how to complain, mostly stupidly at times (like you).
Without St. John's, my career would be somewhere else. Maybe I would have found success in a different endeavor, maybe not. My own success was because of some innovative acadmeic programs here. Many of the closest and dearest friends I have went to St. John's, and I made those friendships on campus. Not only are they great friends, but people who help keep me grounded, who have a moral compass and ethics that would be hard to find anywhere.
So when you rail against a simple patch, stop and consider that without those types of people, and there are tens of thousands of people who have contributed large and small to the university. Not enough of us do, because we are mostly dumb and ingrateful.
In reading your post, my first inclinication was to think, "Is this the kind of student my donations help support? Why should I even bother to give?" Then I sat down and wrote this response. I'm going to make another donation this week, not for you, but for me. Thanks for helping to remind me that without people like the Tafners, I wouldn't be where I am today.
Without any disrespect to Mike Repole, who by all accounts of people who know him, is a wonderful guy and a generous university supporter, but there are many huge contributors who we should all try to learn a little about. One guy a few Christmas' ago, wrote a nearly $10 million check to the university, after he had already given millions. Last year, when I needed financial advice, the same guy, who I had never met before, sat down with me for an hour and a half in a private meeting that he had no personal stake in. The reason he met with me in the first place? Simply on a referral of a friend, and the common bond that we both attended St. John's.
As we approach Christmas, and will spend hundreds (some of us thousands) on unneeded gifts, maybe we should consider a gift to the University. Without people like the Tafners, many of us would have afforded less than a community college education. It's time to give back.
Thanks for your post, seriously. It reminded me of just why St. John's is a great school, and a great community. It goes far beyond wins and losses of the basketball or other sports teams. And because of you, tonight, I'm more thankful for that education than I've been in a long, long time.
I didn't know the Tafners. I know people who did, and they weren't only generous to the University, they were beloved. They didn't ask for accolades, they just gave lavishly to the University. Like idiots, most of us have been critical of a certain donor who in a well publicized move, pulled his donation for a field house. I say idiots, and I'm one of those idiots, because that person, Jim Riley, was one of the most generous people, with his money and time, that the university has ever known.
When that well publicized debacle occurred (without us knowing all the facts) and the field house was in jeopardy, Don and Eleanor Tafner stepped in, already having given millions to the University, and in effect said, "We'll take care of the field house". They did it because they were exceptionally wonderful people, and loved the university.
The Tafners weren't born with silver spoons in their mouths, not that it would matter. They worked hard, and it wasn't until Don had the brainstorm of neogitating with the BBC for the rights to some programming that they could offer to US Networks, did they strike success - and "Three's Company", one of the most successful sitcoms in U.S. history, a Tafner production, was born.
The fieldhouse benefits students and all of the athletic teams. The renovation of CA, with great student sections, was done because of generous donors. All of the buildings on campus were paid for through the generosity of donors. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US WHO ATTENDED SJU BENEFITTED BY REDUCED TUITITION, SCHOLARSHIPS, AND GRANTS BECAUSE OF THE GENEROSITY OF DONORS. (caps intended)
In my day, SJU tuition was so much cheaper than other private schools, because of donors. I couldn't have afforded to go to a private school anywhere else. In my youth, I wasn't thankful enough. I'm still not, but slowly coming to full realization of that fact. Like you, I knew how to complain, mostly stupidly at times (like you).
Without St. John's, my career would be somewhere else. Maybe I would have found success in a different endeavor, maybe not. My own success was because of some innovative acadmeic programs here. Many of the closest and dearest friends I have went to St. John's, and I made those friendships on campus. Not only are they great friends, but people who help keep me grounded, who have a moral compass and ethics that would be hard to find anywhere.
So when you rail against a simple patch, stop and consider that without those types of people, and there are tens of thousands of people who have contributed large and small to the university. Not enough of us do, because we are mostly dumb and ingrateful.
In reading your post, my first inclinication was to think, "Is this the kind of student my donations help support? Why should I even bother to give?" Then I sat down and wrote this response. I'm going to make another donation this week, not for you, but for me. Thanks for helping to remind me that without people like the Tafners, I wouldn't be where I am today.
Without any disrespect to Mike Repole, who by all accounts of people who know him, is a wonderful guy and a generous university supporter, but there are many huge contributors who we should all try to learn a little about. One guy a few Christmas' ago, wrote a nearly $10 million check to the university, after he had already given millions. Last year, when I needed financial advice, the same guy, who I had never met before, sat down with me for an hour and a half in a private meeting that he had no personal stake in. The reason he met with me in the first place? Simply on a referral of a friend, and the common bond that we both attended St. John's.
As we approach Christmas, and will spend hundreds (some of us thousands) on unneeded gifts, maybe we should consider a gift to the University. Without people like the Tafners, many of us would have afforded less than a community college education. It's time to give back.
Thanks for your post, seriously. It reminded me of just why St. John's is a great school, and a great community. It goes far beyond wins and losses of the basketball or other sports teams. And because of you, tonight, I'm more thankful for that education than I've been in a long, long time.
I am going to add my 2 cents.........I think a very talented team played their hearts out tonight against a bigger and even more talented team in a hostile environment. Yes our team got beat, but they are too few, and too small. We lack the size we thought we were going to have when the coach put this team together. Yet we must remember we have a team full of young talented guys who play hard and are learning with every tick of the clock. We simply must be patient with these kids, I do think they will grow and with Coach Lavin recruiting and adding pieces to what is already here this team will grow into a basketball team that we all will be proud of. Oh it would have been wonderful if we could have gone into Rupp and beat them down.It was not to be, not tonight, but our time will come. Keep the faith!
STJ11Redmen
Active member
We got overpowered by a team that looked like an NBA team. I'm not discouraged at all actually. We in no way embarrassed ourselves tonight. We had constant motion on offense which was lacking in the Northeastern game. We were on point on the defensive end and stopped everything we could control. Strategically, keeping the tempo slow was the correct move. Defensively this was our best effort of the season. Aside from the lobs which can't be stopped and the put-backs, I thought we did a nice job cleaning up the boards when we could and we didn't leave too many open shooters. Anyone who says we didn't have any effort tonight is dead wrong. Watch us get at it on the defensive end in the first half and watch the movement we had on offense. If we play Northeastern with the effort we gave today we beat them by 30. Today was plain and simple a no-win situation. They were men and we were boys. Most of those guys should be in the NBA right now and if this were next year with the likely new nba age rules those freshmen probably would be in the NBA We are a developing, undermanned team. They harassed us on the perimeter because they knew they could just swat away any inside shot we took. We are going to beat plenty of good teams this year as long as we keep the defense like it was today and get open shots, which we will against other teams.
Individually, Phil Greene is slowly growing into my favorite player. After the first few games I had written him off as a guy who would be the freshman version of Malik Stith, but he has shown he has isn't afraid to step up, be assertive and take over. He also has a nice touch on pull-up jumpers. The other player I thought played an exceptional game is Gift, obviously. He was great and it is encouraging to see him do it against a great, physical team. Harkless was strong on the boards like usual but he needs to be more aggressive on offense. Nuri and Harrison had off-days, Harrison was just being harassed by Kentucky and couldn't get open at all. At the end of the day, this is a great learning experience. This season isn't over yet and we still have a shot to make the tourney if we keep growing but I just can't wait for these guys to develop and honestly I believe if the core freshman stick with this program for 3-4 years, they will see a final 4 You can feel the genuine love that these kids have for their teammates, coaching staff and the game.
Individually, Phil Greene is slowly growing into my favorite player. After the first few games I had written him off as a guy who would be the freshman version of Malik Stith, but he has shown he has isn't afraid to step up, be assertive and take over. He also has a nice touch on pull-up jumpers. The other player I thought played an exceptional game is Gift, obviously. He was great and it is encouraging to see him do it against a great, physical team. Harkless was strong on the boards like usual but he needs to be more aggressive on offense. Nuri and Harrison had off-days, Harrison was just being harassed by Kentucky and couldn't get open at all. At the end of the day, this is a great learning experience. This season isn't over yet and we still have a shot to make the tourney if we keep growing but I just can't wait for these guys to develop and honestly I believe if the core freshman stick with this program for 3-4 years, they will see a final 4 You can feel the genuine love that these kids have for their teammates, coaching staff and the game.
Not that bad considering all things. Kentucky's font line was much better than I anticipated. Johnnie's kept it close in the first half and part of the second until the expected run on the road. After that you just watched to see if they kept their composure and ran their stuff. Gift played against the toughest competition quite well and I think it should bode well for him and the team. Nuri and Harrison had bad games but it was their first road game. Everything with time.
Interesting to see if the Cats are able to run those dunks against Carolina. Dickie V says "no way baby". Good competition always helps a team and should pay dividends down the road.
Detroit next.
Interesting to see if the Cats are able to run those dunks against Carolina. Dickie V says "no way baby". Good competition always helps a team and should pay dividends down the road.
Detroit next.
tom in salem
Well-known member
I actually like the line up of the 4 freshmen and Gift on the floor together.
Better defense and rebounding.
Better defense and rebounding.
Notes
- Kentucky reminds me of the Uconn team from a couple of years ago with Boone and Rudy Gay that didn't win the National Championship because they were too talented. This is a scary group of players. If anything was exposed in this game it was that pretty clearly the high ranking of the SJ recruiting class was a function of quantity not quality. Although this is a talented group that in a couple of years will be formidable, they are light years behind UK's recruits, and anyone who doesn't see that is delusional. It's impossible to believe that the addition of one or two more recruits of similar quality would make too much difference, and good luck to him but anyone waiting for Garrett's eligibility s bound to be disappointed. We'd have been better off with Cedric Jackson, Dexter Gray and Ty Edmundsen. Sorry, with Pollee and the Roberts brothers, Quincy and Ron. It was shortsighted of the staff to jettison all those warm bodies, although it goes without saying that it was all Beteljuice's fault.
- On the bright side, it was good to see a staff capable of in game and halftime adjustments. Yesterday's strategy early seemed to be to control tempo by running the shot clock down to zero, thereby limiting the number of UK possessions. When this proved ineffective staff changed gears, allowing UK as many possessions and dunks as possible, probably hoping that UK's front line would tire themselves out. Although neither strategy worked particularly well, this sort of flexibility is not anything we would have seen during the Beteljuice era, when the lack of in game adjustments were responsible for nearly every one of our losses, as was noted by many astute posters after nearly every game. Since obviously the coaching that is at fault, it must be that we are just not as talented as teams like Kentucky, Arizona, and Northeastern. If true this does not bode well for conference play, although if several other players suffer career ending injuries like Tim Abromitis or if coaches at other schools are found to be child molesters this could be help us move up the standings.
- Nice to see Achiuwa (gesundheit) awaken from his coma. However, not nice to see Lindsey go into one. We will not be winning too many games in which NL takes 3 shots and scores 1 point. If staff told him to turn it down a notch after the first couple games that order should be rescinded. At least when he was out of control the games were entertaining.
- I think the players should get rid of the Tafner patches and try nicotine patches instead. Or maybe estrogen.
- I noted after seeing Harrison get T'd up against CW Post in an exhibition game that it was nice to have an honest to goodness psychopath on the team, something we haven't had since the Jarvae era. Update: this kid is a chair in the stands waiting to happen. I wouldn't want to be his chauffuer. Prediction: Omar Cook - Reggie Jessie - Herb Pope.
- Kentucky reminds me of the Uconn team from a couple of years ago with Boone and Rudy Gay that didn't win the National Championship because they were too talented. This is a scary group of players. If anything was exposed in this game it was that pretty clearly the high ranking of the SJ recruiting class was a function of quantity not quality. Although this is a talented group that in a couple of years will be formidable, they are light years behind UK's recruits, and anyone who doesn't see that is delusional. It's impossible to believe that the addition of one or two more recruits of similar quality would make too much difference, and good luck to him but anyone waiting for Garrett's eligibility s bound to be disappointed. We'd have been better off with Cedric Jackson, Dexter Gray and Ty Edmundsen. Sorry, with Pollee and the Roberts brothers, Quincy and Ron. It was shortsighted of the staff to jettison all those warm bodies, although it goes without saying that it was all Beteljuice's fault.
- On the bright side, it was good to see a staff capable of in game and halftime adjustments. Yesterday's strategy early seemed to be to control tempo by running the shot clock down to zero, thereby limiting the number of UK possessions. When this proved ineffective staff changed gears, allowing UK as many possessions and dunks as possible, probably hoping that UK's front line would tire themselves out. Although neither strategy worked particularly well, this sort of flexibility is not anything we would have seen during the Beteljuice era, when the lack of in game adjustments were responsible for nearly every one of our losses, as was noted by many astute posters after nearly every game. Since obviously the coaching that is at fault, it must be that we are just not as talented as teams like Kentucky, Arizona, and Northeastern. If true this does not bode well for conference play, although if several other players suffer career ending injuries like Tim Abromitis or if coaches at other schools are found to be child molesters this could be help us move up the standings.
- Nice to see Achiuwa (gesundheit) awaken from his coma. However, not nice to see Lindsey go into one. We will not be winning too many games in which NL takes 3 shots and scores 1 point. If staff told him to turn it down a notch after the first couple games that order should be rescinded. At least when he was out of control the games were entertaining.
- I think the players should get rid of the Tafner patches and try nicotine patches instead. Or maybe estrogen.
- I noted after seeing Harrison get T'd up against CW Post in an exhibition game that it was nice to have an honest to goodness psychopath on the team, something we haven't had since the Jarvae era. Update: this kid is a chair in the stands waiting to happen. I wouldn't want to be his chauffuer. Prediction: Omar Cook - Reggie Jessie - Herb Pope.
Class of 72
Active member
You are a genius! Your analytical skills truly bring so much to the discussion!
My two cents - not an unexpected result, we have talent but these guys need to figure out the college game and with no experienced players to fall back on, they were exposed against Kentucky, who are really good. I think GGA got his sea legs last night, IMO, the first to do so; really good game, fought hard and did some things against a superior front line. Question mark on Harrison was always that he didn't play against the best competition in HS and I think the big step up showed, he still needs to figure it out and asking him to be a main scorer at this point in time just isn't realisitic. Lindsey appeared to try to play a completely different game (as Fun said 3 shots?) and it showed, do coaches know what to do with him right now? Again, needs to adjust to the faster game with bigger, better players, pullup or tear drop needed. Harkless, like Harrison, HS question marks - that he drifts, zones out, and is a little soft, came to roost. Davis is really good but on several of the blocks Harkless just gave him the ball, going up straight and soft with no fakes. Both he and Pointer took to fading away which is the worst thing to do with a shotblocker, you have to "attack the chest." Had several opportunities to dunk on breaks and just didn't go for the rim. Pointer, is what he is at this point, will give you a little offense but is D and energy; an important role player. Greene, showed well in spots, not afraid of the competetion, took a couple strange shots but was certainly the best guard SJU put on the floor. In summary, could have played better, will play better, but the well documented lack of experience makes this a very challenging transition year. One final point, you can't compare Kentucky's inexperience with ours, one soph Jones, and one freshman, Davis, are pros and they have a senior who is coming off the bench, not because of lack of talent but in the interest of winning. In addition, Davis' willingness, as their best player, to play hard D and the team game makes them very dangerous. It was only one game but they looked great.
Agree. The disparity between Kentucky's recruits and ours was apparent. I do think that Pelle and Sampson, who both have some height, would have made it a fairer fight. But absent height AND depth AND experience, it wasn't close. Once they have more in all three of those categories, they will be dangerous - next year, or the year after.
I think the staff knew going in that it could potentially be a beatdown and wisely tried to control the tempo to limit the number of possessions and thus the extent of the blowout. Their problem was that their offensive possessions consisted of taking 35 seconds off the shot clock followed by a shot clock violation or a block. While we certainly had many scoring droughts of that extent during the Norm era, at least those scoring droughts involved the ball bouncing off the rim at some point. I don't think I've ever seen so many possessions end without so much as a shot hitting something other than a defender.
I don't think they had a choice other than to try to open it up a little in the second half so that their players didn't feel utterly futile on offense. Unfortunately they couldn't defend Kentucky either, so it was pretty much a no win situation.
They're going to win 11 games this year, so I wouldn't sweat the standings too much.
Achiuwa played a man's game last night. He did what he is going to need to do to compete in the Big East, and it was great to see. If Lindsey does not develop a jump shot, then I think you will see more games like last night from him. Kentucky knew that he couldn't shoot, put a taller player on him, and that was the end of him. If he cannot score on the drive, he's done. He will put up some games against teams that don't have someone tall enough and quick enough to shut off his drive, but any school that scouts SJU at all and who has a player with some length and quickness to spare on defense is going to shut him down.
As I posted the other day (and as Dickie V pretty much said on the broadcast), it's amazing that Harkless can basically put up 16 and 10 while seeming to play hard for about 5 minutes a game. I don't know if it's the staff or him, but he has to be more involved more of the time.
I thought Phil and Dom were arguably our most ready-for-prime-time players last night. Neither showed any fear, both of them played their games, and were significant contributors. For freshmen, in their first road game, in Rupp Arena, I thought that was pretty impressive. They are going to be good players for us.
Harrison is a hothead, and he had to be frustrated last night. It was a learning experience for him, hopefully he will take something away from it and gain some maturity.
Actually it was hopefully a learning experience for the whole team - now they know what the distance is between them and the #1 team, they've seen it up close and personal, and they know what they have to strive to get to. All in all, I think it was a positive.
I agree with this quote. By the way, UK could certainly lose on Saturday, but I wouldn't be surprised to see them convincingly beat UNC over the weekend.
Hopefully, these early season games versus formidable opponents could help our maturation throughout the season.
I agree that it would be nice if Lindsey could shoot but that's not the only issue. If anyone could shoot defenses wouldn't sag as much as they do, which would open up the middle for Lindsey and allow the bigs room to operate. The problem (a problem) is that there's no outside threat at all so there's always 5 defenders inside the foul line.