Jordan Status?

Got home a little while ago from the CTK-Molloy game. Rawle as usual a man amongst boys. Anyhow as others have said, this is disappointing but not surprising. There have been warning signs including his demeanor as recently as at the SH game. Based on reports from Paultz, I assume we'll never see the likes of him again. Good bye and good luck.

Just to be clear. I am not certain how long the "leave" will be for. Since the problem has festered I just don't see a quick return.

What you have to love about rooting for this team is the way it keeps you guessing. A little over 48 hours ago, you could draw up a way for there to be two Top 10 teams playing in the Garden Tuesday night. Now a tricky game just got a lot trickier tomorrow and you can draw up a way for there to only be one ranked team playing in the Garden Tuesday night, with the unranked team without one of its two most talented players and returning to its bread and butter under multiple regimes the last 10 years: the 5 man rotation! WE ARE!

Interesting points.

Even if I cast no blame on anyone in this situation, I find myself asking a basic question, should this program be much more stable? Is there anything that can be done to reduce the instability that seems to plague us? If this is the norm, so be it. I can then find another diversion. If it is not, how can we get to a less volatile level & who is responsible for accomplishing that? My desire is to root for a team that has a minimum of drama, continuity, competes for a BE championship annually & goes to the Dance more often than not. As things stand, I have a hard time believing we will achieve that status. It seems like we get headed in the right direction only to be derailed. "Always something" could be our motto.

I've been saying this for awhile, St. John's is a tough sell to get kids to come here. This isn't the 80's anymore, things have changed so much in college BB since then. Of course Lavin gets the blame, but it's almost like he's got to take a chance on imperfect kids. I would wonder what realistic coach we could bring in here that could do a better recruiting job. At least Lavin has us in the running for the top talent. Norm was supposed to be an expert recruiter, and look how badly he failed at it.

*Edit: I don't want to make this seem like a Lavin defense. I'm not happy at all with the way he's seemingly taken recruiting periods off and put our future in a lot of doubt.

Before you go and bash Norm keep in mind that Norm, on a shoestring budget and with tight parameters on the kind of kids he was allowed to recruit, recruited the only team in the last dozen + years to make the NCAA tourny. Lavin has a seemingly unlimited budget and is clearly allowed to recruit any kind of kid he wants, regardless of the risk involved. I would argue that Norm actually did a better job all things considered.

Norm was avnice guy but that does not change the fact that he was in way over his head. Should have never been hired off of his coaching resume.

Agreed, but you're missing the point. I was not talking about Norm's coaching ability or whether or not he was qualified for the job(he wasn't). My post was in response to someone who was bashing Norm's recruiting. He had far more limitations both in budget and in the type of kid he was allowed to recruit coming off the scandal.

Just remember: Any time we are all in a pissy mood, bringing up Norm never helps calm the storm. :)

I didn't bring up Norm, I responded to someone else who bashed him seemingly in an attempt to elevate Lavin.

On the plus side Theo Rabinowitz just got 10 PMs to sell tickets for tomorrows game.
 
Got home a little while ago from the CTK-Molloy game. Rawle as usual a man amongst boys. Anyhow as others have said, this is disappointing but not surprising. There have been warning signs including his demeanor as recently as at the SH game. Based on reports from Paultz, I assume we'll never see the likes of him again. Good bye and good luck.

Just to be clear. I am not certain how long the "leave" will be for. Since the problem has festered I just don't see a quick return.

What you have to love about rooting for this team is the way it keeps you guessing. A little over 48 hours ago, you could draw up a way for there to be two Top 10 teams playing in the Garden Tuesday night. Now a tricky game just got a lot trickier tomorrow and you can draw up a way for there to only be one ranked team playing in the Garden Tuesday night, with the unranked team without one of its two most talented players and returning to its bread and butter under multiple regimes the last 10 years: the 5 man rotation! WE ARE!

Interesting points.

Even if I cast no blame on anyone in this situation, I find myself asking a basic question, should this program be much more stable? Is there anything that can be done to reduce the instability that seems to plague us? If this is the norm, so be it. I can then find another diversion. If it is not, how can we get to a less volatile level & who is responsible for accomplishing that? My desire is to root for a team that has a minimum of drama, continuity, competes for a BE championship annually & goes to the Dance more often than not. As things stand, I have a hard time believing we will achieve that status. It seems like we get headed in the right direction only to be derailed. "Always something" could be our motto.

I've been saying this for awhile, St. John's is a tough sell to get kids to come here. This isn't the 80's anymore, things have changed so much in college BB since then. Of course Lavin gets the blame, but it's almost like he's got to take a chance on imperfect kids. I would wonder what realistic coach we could bring in here that could do a better recruiting job. At least Lavin has us in the running for the top talent. Norm was supposed to be an expert recruiter, and look how badly he failed at it.

*Edit: I don't want to make this seem like a Lavin defense. I'm not happy at all with the way he's seemingly taken recruiting periods off and put our future in a lot of doubt.

Before you go and bash Norm keep in mind that Norm, on a shoestring budget and with tight parameters on the kind of kids he was allowed to recruit, recruited the only team in the last dozen + years to make the NCAA tourny. Lavin has a seemingly unlimited budget and is clearly allowed to recruit any kind of kid he wants, regardless of the risk involved. I would argue that Norm actually did a better job all things considered.

Norm was avnice guy but that does not change the fact that he was in way over his head. Should have never been hired off of his coaching resume.

Agreed, but you're missing the point. I was not talking about Norm's coaching ability or whether or not he was qualified for the job(he wasn't). My post was in response to someone who was bashing Norm's recruiting. He had far more limitations both in budget and in the type of kid he was allowed to recruit coming off the scandal.

Just remember: Any time we are all in a pissy mood, bringing up Norm never helps calm the storm. :)

I didn't bring up Norm, I responded to someone else who bashed him seemingly in an attempt to elevate Lavin.

Oh please!! Bashing Norm to elevate Lavin? I don't need to do that. Norm should have never been hired, end of story. Lavin has been a disappointment in his own right. End of story.
 
Darn shame.

You would think that D'Lo would have some positive influence here ... but who knows the real circumstances behind all this.

Let's hope this gets resolved amicably in our favor and that in the meantime the team can re-focus, rally and maybe use a "siege mentality" to grind out some W's. Oh boy...

The TXRedman "optimism-meter" just dropped below .500

Tell you what. I have gone from depressed and disgusted, to really pissed off.
Jordan is a little freaking brat that thinks it's all about him. I don't care if he comes back now.

The starters will just have to work aliitle more.
And which one of the subs will be man enough to step up and say "I want Jordans minutes".
He don't have to be jordan, just do the little things. Play defense and hustle for loose balls.
Maybe hit a few open thress if they get that opportunity.
Here's their chance, WHO WANTS IT?
Motivation is a great thing.
 
We can still make the tournament but our team will be dead stamina wise by march

Do you see us winning 11 games in the Big East without Jordan in the top 6 players?

If one or two has the heart to work like a maniac to get better then why not.

If I'm a senior, I won't let Jordan ruin a good hing that we have going right now.
Be determined to show Jordan that with or without you, we are getting in and that's just the way it's going to be.
 
I would venture to say that ed cooleys budget at providence is not much better than norms was and he is getting it done. Norm is what he is..a lifetime asst. Nothing wrong with that. I just wish that we would not have wasted 6 years of sju basketball to confirm what his record at queens college showed.
 
Before we call "surrender" on the season, take a look at Rysheed's stats for the last three games. Way down in every category. The LBS game where he DNP due to 'flu was probably smoke. The #s indicate his head has not been in the game since Fordham.

Hoping that the distraction is addition by subtraction and the team's action will be to our satisfaction. Yeah Boyeee!
 
I wasnt really worried about Jordan up until now because I figured if he was doing anything that was too troublesome that lavin would have no problem suspending him. Well there is the suspension, hope he learns from it. Look at what D'lo took from a suspension.
 
Got home a little while ago from the CTK-Molloy game. Rawle as usual a man amongst boys. Anyhow as others have said, this is disappointing but not surprising. There have been warning signs including his demeanor as recently as at the SH game. Based on reports from Paultz, I assume we'll never see the likes of him again. Good bye and good luck.

Just to be clear. I am not certain how long the "leave" will be for. Since the problem has festered I just don't see a quick return.

What you have to love about rooting for this team is the way it keeps you guessing. A little over 48 hours ago, you could draw up a way for there to be two Top 10 teams playing in the Garden Tuesday night. Now a tricky game just got a lot trickier tomorrow and you can draw up a way for there to only be one ranked team playing in the Garden Tuesday night, with the unranked team without one of its two most talented players and returning to its bread and butter under multiple regimes the last 10 years: the 5 man rotation! WE ARE!

Interesting points.

Even if I cast no blame on anyone in this situation, I find myself asking a basic question, should this program be much more stable? Is there anything that can be done to reduce the instability that seems to plague us? If this is the norm, so be it. I can then find another diversion. If it is not, how can we get to a less volatile level & who is responsible for accomplishing that? My desire is to root for a team that has a minimum of drama, continuity, competes for a BE championship annually & goes to the Dance more often than not. As things stand, I have a hard time believing we will achieve that status. It seems like we get headed in the right direction only to be derailed. "Always something" could be our motto.

I've been saying this for awhile, St. John's is a tough sell to get kids to come here. This isn't the 80's anymore, things have changed so much in college BB since then. Of course Lavin gets the blame, but it's almost like he's got to take a chance on imperfect kids. I would wonder what realistic coach we could bring in here that could do a better recruiting job. At least Lavin has us in the running for the top talent. Norm was supposed to be an expert recruiter, and look how badly he failed at it.

*Edit: I don't want to make this seem like a Lavin defense. I'm not happy at all with the way he's seemingly taken recruiting periods off and put our future in a lot of doubt.

Before you go and bash Norm keep in mind that Norm, on a shoestring budget and with tight parameters on the kind of kids he was allowed to recruit, recruited the only team in the last dozen + years to make the NCAA tourny. Lavin has a seemingly unlimited budget and is clearly allowed to recruit any kind of kid he wants, regardless of the risk involved. I would argue that Norm actually did a better job all things considered.

Norm was avnice guy but that does not change the fact that he was in way over his head. Should have never been hired off of his coaching resume.

Agreed, but you're missing the point. I was not talking about Norm's coaching ability or whether or not he was qualified for the job(he wasn't). My post was in response to someone who was bashing Norm's recruiting. He had far more limitations both in budget and in the type of kid he was allowed to recruit coming off the scandal.

Just remember: Any time we are all in a pissy mood, bringing up Norm never helps calm the storm. :)

I didn't bring up Norm, I responded to someone else who bashed him seemingly in an attempt to elevate Lavin.

Oh please!! Bashing Norm to elevate Lavin? I don't need to do that. Norm should have never been hired, end of story. Lavin has been a disappointment in his own right. End of story.

Your words:

1. This isn't the 80's anymore, things have changed so much in college BB since then.
2. Of course Lavin gets the blame, but it's almost like he's got to take a chance on imperfect kids.
3. I would wonder what realistic coach we could bring in here that could do a better recruiting job.
4. At least Lavin has us in the running for the top talent. Norm was supposed to be an expert recruiter, and look how badly he failed at it.

You may not have wanted to make it sound like a defense of Lavin, and at Norm's expense, but that's exactly what it sounds like.
 
Got home a little while ago from the CTK-Molloy game. Rawle as usual a man amongst boys. Anyhow as others have said, this is disappointing but not surprising. There have been warning signs including his demeanor as recently as at the SH game. Based on reports from Paultz, I assume we'll never see the likes of him again. Good bye and good luck.

Just to be clear. I am not certain how long the "leave" will be for. Since the problem has festered I just don't see a quick return.

What you have to love about rooting for this team is the way it keeps you guessing. A little over 48 hours ago, you could draw up a way for there to be two Top 10 teams playing in the Garden Tuesday night. Now a tricky game just got a lot trickier tomorrow and you can draw up a way for there to only be one ranked team playing in the Garden Tuesday night, with the unranked team without one of its two most talented players and returning to its bread and butter under multiple regimes the last 10 years: the 5 man rotation! WE ARE!

Interesting points.

Even if I cast no blame on anyone in this situation, I find myself asking a basic question, should this program be much more stable? Is there anything that can be done to reduce the instability that seems to plague us? If this is the norm, so be it. I can then find another diversion. If it is not, how can we get to a less volatile level & who is responsible for accomplishing that? My desire is to root for a team that has a minimum of drama, continuity, competes for a BE championship annually & goes to the Dance more often than not. As things stand, I have a hard time believing we will achieve that status. It seems like we get headed in the right direction only to be derailed. "Always something" could be our motto.

I've been saying this for awhile, St. John's is a tough sell to get kids to come here. This isn't the 80's anymore, things have changed so much in college BB since then. Of course Lavin gets the blame, but it's almost like he's got to take a chance on imperfect kids. I would wonder what realistic coach we could bring in here that could do a better recruiting job. At least Lavin has us in the running for the top talent. Norm was supposed to be an expert recruiter, and look how badly he failed at it.

*Edit: I don't want to make this seem like a Lavin defense. I'm not happy at all with the way he's seemingly taken recruiting periods off and put our future in a lot of doubt.

Before you go and bash Norm keep in mind that Norm, on a shoestring budget and with tight parameters on the kind of kids he was allowed to recruit, recruited the only team in the last dozen + years to make the NCAA tourny. Lavin has a seemingly unlimited budget and is clearly allowed to recruit any kind of kid he wants, regardless of the risk involved. I would argue that Norm actually did a better job all things considered.

Norm was avnice guy but that does not change the fact that he was in way over his head. Should have never been hired off of his coaching resume.

Agreed, but you're missing the point. I was not talking about Norm's coaching ability or whether or not he was qualified for the job(he wasn't). My post was in response to someone who was bashing Norm's recruiting. He had far more limitations both in budget and in the type of kid he was allowed to recruit coming off the scandal.

Just remember: Any time we are all in a pissy mood, bringing up Norm never helps calm the storm. :)

I didn't bring up Norm, I responded to someone else who bashed him seemingly in an attempt to elevate Lavin.

On the plus side Theo Rabinowitz just got 10 PMs to sell tickets for tomorrows game.

Theo is now demanding payment to go to the game
 
Hey Billy

Norm is no longer the head coach at StJohn's.

But since you mentioned Providence coach Ed Cooley in you above post let me ask you, who would you prefer to have at StJohn's: Ed Cooley, or Lav and his hardworking staff. [note: Lav and his hardworking staff have failed to fill its scholarship roster and have a 4+ year losing Big East Conference record]
 
Got home a little while ago from the CTK-Molloy game. Rawle as usual a man amongst boys. Anyhow as others have said, this is disappointing but not surprising. There have been warning signs including his demeanor as recently as at the SH game. Based on reports from Paultz, I assume we'll never see the likes of him again. Good bye and good luck.

Just to be clear. I am not certain how long the "leave" will be for. Since the problem has festered I just don't see a quick return.

What you have to love about rooting for this team is the way it keeps you guessing. A little over 48 hours ago, you could draw up a way for there to be two Top 10 teams playing in the Garden Tuesday night. Now a tricky game just got a lot trickier tomorrow and you can draw up a way for there to only be one ranked team playing in the Garden Tuesday night, with the unranked team without one of its two most talented players and returning to its bread and butter under multiple regimes the last 10 years: the 5 man rotation! WE ARE!

Interesting points.

Even if I cast no blame on anyone in this situation, I find myself asking a basic question, should this program be much more stable? Is there anything that can be done to reduce the instability that seems to plague us? If this is the norm, so be it. I can then find another diversion. If it is not, how can we get to a less volatile level & who is responsible for accomplishing that? My desire is to root for a team that has a minimum of drama, continuity, competes for a BE championship annually & goes to the Dance more often than not. As things stand, I have a hard time believing we will achieve that status. It seems like we get headed in the right direction only to be derailed. "Always something" could be our motto.

I've been saying this for awhile, St. John's is a tough sell to get kids to come here. This isn't the 80's anymore, things have changed so much in college BB since then. Of course Lavin gets the blame, but it's almost like he's got to take a chance on imperfect kids. I would wonder what realistic coach we could bring in here that could do a better recruiting job. At least Lavin has us in the running for the top talent. Norm was supposed to be an expert recruiter, and look how badly he failed at it.

*Edit: I don't want to make this seem like a Lavin defense. I'm not happy at all with the way he's seemingly taken recruiting periods off and put our future in a lot of doubt.

I have never subscribed to your view that St Johns is a tough sell. There are schools and programs that have enjoyed or are enjoying success in lesser locations. Gonzaga in Spokane, Xavier in Cincinnati, Villanova in Radnor, Davidson in the sticks, Syracuse in the North Pole, Butler, San Diego State, and others. For Christmas sake, NYC should be an easy sell for hungry and aggressive coaches. Hiring lazies or losers has been our athletic administration's history since Brian Mahoney was endorsed by Lou. The current situation is eerie in that it is shaping up to end like the Jarvis fiasco. Coaches with big egos thinking they deserve(d) contract extension without proving they worked hard enough for it, sabotaging their recruiting efforts with JC talent and walk ons and alienating the fan base. I agree with Paultzman in regard to the length of Rysheed's absence and since the Spring semester does not begin until January 21st, neither party will have any incentive to contact the other. If Jordan returns before that date he may have gotten the message. What message? That I (Lavin ) will ruin your selfish fckn NBA dream by exposing you as uncoachable and making you damaged goods even if it means losing my job since Class of 72 says I am losing it anyway. :angry:


You're missing my point though. You're not selling the top kids on NYC anymore. With the emergence of mainstream media and social media, these guys think they're rock stars in high school. Location hasn't proven to be a factor and time and time again we've seen kids interested in leaving home rather than put NY on their back. Kids are looking to get to the next level by any means necessary, even if they have to go to Podunk U. But the biggest thing is the level of support at schools like Syracuse, using your example. They are the main attraction there. Look how little support there is for st. John's.

I am not missing your point I'm disagreeing with it. The elite players considered themselves "rap" stars long before social media or even the internet. Even back in the 80's and 90's all you needed were a couple of super talented kids to be successful. Except for Kentucky, Louisville and Duke, that is the same in 2014. The key is great coaches who assemble coachable players like at UVA for example. We were successful when Malik Sealy was our star, when George Johnson was our star, and many other SJ teams that went only 6 or 7 deep. I, and others, have been waiting for a coach who can recruit players with character and talent and not just talented players that have character issues. It can be done since Duke and Davidson do it every year.
And yes....Bob Mckillop has been my #1 choice since Carnesecca retired but that ship has long sailed.
 
Hey Billy

Norm is no longer the head coach at StJohn's.

But since you mentioned Providence coach Ed Cooley in you above post let me ask you, who would you prefer to have at StJohn's: Ed Cooley, or Lav and his hardworking staff. [note: Lav and his hardworking staff have failed to fill its scholarship roster and have a 4+ year losing Big East Conference record]


I believe that Cooley also has a losing Big East Conference record.
 
I like cooley and his passion. Not great xs and os but lavin aint either. I would go with cooley because he seems to have a longer career ahead. Neither would be confused for the late rick majerus from a strategy standpoint.

All that said when was last time sju was ranked 15th in nation. Love or hate lavin #s dont lie
 
Give him the long weekend....beat Butler and show him we can win without him (again)...have Phil and D'Angelo reach out to him to get him back and rededicated in time to face his hometown team ranked in the top ten at MSG. That might be a reach, but Providence on 1/14 probably isn't. If he wants to play in the NBA he's got top ten Nova, Providence, head to head with the guy that beat him for BE ROY, and #2 Duke at MSG all this month alone. Or...he can sit at home in Philly and ruin what is left of his NBA opportunity.

This is a long time coming and just what this kid needs to get his act together.

I'm not sure why people keep talking about playing Lipscomb as our only other PG. We have three guys that can bring the ball against any press. Jordan has been playing more SF anyway.
 
Give him the long weekend....beat Butler and show him we can win without him (again)...have Phil and D'Angelo reach out to him to get him back and rededicated in time to face his hometown team ranked in the top ten at MSG. That might be a reach, but Providence on 1/14 probably isn't. If he wants to play in the NBA he's got top ten Nova, Providence, head to head with the guy that beat him for BE ROY, and #2 Duke at MSG all this month alone. Or...he can sit at home in Philly and ruin what is left of his NBA opportunity.

This is a long time coming and just what this kid needs to get his act together.

I'm not sure why people keep talking about playing Lipscomb as our only other PG. We have three guys that can bring the ball against any press. Jordan has been playing more SF anyway.

If he comes back then jgreat, he's a great talent. If not then oh well.
No one is bigger then the team.
If he wants to be a brat, then hey stay home.

Hoping he's thinking about this real hard.

It's time to be a man Jordan.Wake up
 
Hey Billy

Norm is no longer the head coach at StJohn's.

But since you mentioned Providence coach Ed Cooley in you above post let me ask you, who would you prefer to have at StJohn's: Ed Cooley, or Lav and his hardworking staff. [note: Lav and his hardworking staff have failed to fill its scholarship roster and have a 4+ year losing Big East Conference record]

you're ridiculous. Why are you adding up the cumulative record? So if we beat Butler today, your point will be moot since the staff will have a .500 record.
He inherited a team that graduated 10 players. He and the team have shown improvement every year since they've gotten here. Isn't that what we look at?
Aside from the obvious reasons why I want SJU to win today, the other reason is that you will go back under your bridge, troll.
 
Two contradictory thoughts on a troubling thread. Can we at least wait to see what the actual reason for his leave is before totally trashing RJ, Lav, Norm or anyone else? Maybe there is justification. Two, I wonder if the team wants him back or would they prefer not to have to deal with more distractions. :nervous:
 
Yahoo sports write up of game shows it's indefinitel leave to deal with personal and family circumstances.

Are we sure it's his own doing and. A suspension? Is it not his moms health issues again? Why are we jumping to conclusions and acting like the world ended. Branch has been a very good backup and been there before. He can def pick up the slack, is very unselfish with the ball and a good ball handler with very minimal TOs.
 
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