Jordan Status?

[TX Redman]

Darn shame.

You would think that D'Lo would have some positive influence here ... but who knows the real circumstances behind all this.

Let's hope this gets resolved amicably in our favor and that in the meantime the team can re-focus, rally and maybe use a "siege mentality" to grind out some W's. Oh boy...

The TXRedman "optimism-meter" just dropped below .500

 

[Jack Williams]

We can still make the tournament but our team will be dead stamina wise by march

 

[monte]

Got home a little while ago from the CTK-Molloy game. Rawle as usual a man amongst boys. Anyhow as others have said, this is disappointing but not surprising. There have been warning signs including his demeanor as recently as at the SH game. Based on reports from Paultz, I assume we'll never see the likes of him again. Good bye and good luck.

Just to be clear. I am not certain how long the "leave" will be for. Since the problem has festered I just don't see a quick return.

What you have to love about rooting for this team is the way it keeps you guessing. A little over 48 hours ago, you could draw up a way for there to be two Top 10 teams playing in the Garden Tuesday night. Now a tricky game just got a lot trickier tomorrow and you can draw up a way for there to only be one ranked team playing in the Garden Tuesday night, with the unranked team without one of its two most talented players and returning to its bread and butter under multiple regimes the last 10 years: the 5 man rotation! WE ARE!

Interesting points.

Even if I cast no blame on anyone in this situation, I find myself asking a basic question, should this program be much more stable? Is there anything that can be done to reduce the instability that seems to plague us? If this is the norm, so be it. I can then find another diversion. If it is not, how can we get to a less volatile level & who is responsible for accomplishing that? My desire is to root for a team that has a minimum of drama, continuity, competes for a BE championship annually & goes to the Dance more often than not. As things stand, I have a hard time believing we will achieve that status. It seems like we get headed in the right direction only to be derailed. "Always something" could be our motto.

I've been saying this for awhile, St. John's is a tough sell to get kids to come here. This isn't the 80's anymore, things have changed so much in college BB since then. Of course Lavin gets the blame, but it's almost like he's got to take a chance on imperfect kids. I would wonder what realistic coach we could bring in here that could do a better recruiting job. At least Lavin has us in the running for the top talent. Norm was supposed to be an expert recruiter, and look how badly he failed at it.

*Edit: I don't want to make this seem like a Lavin defense. I'm not happy at all with the way he's seemingly taken recruiting periods off and put our future in a lot of doubt.

Before you go and bash Norm keep in mind that Norm, on a shoestring budget and with tight parameters on the kind of kids he was allowed to recruit, recruited the only team in the last dozen + years to make the NCAA tourny. Lavin has a seemingly unlimited budget and is clearly allowed to recruit any kind of kid he wants, regardless of the risk involved. I would argue that Norm actually did a better job all things considered.

 

[beast of the east]

We can still make the tournament but our team will be dead stamina wise by march

Do you see us winning 11 games in the Big East without Jordan in the top 6 players?

 

[beast of the east]

Got home a little while ago from the CTK-Molloy game. Rawle as usual a man amongst boys. Anyhow as others have said, this is disappointing but not surprising. There have been warning signs including his demeanor as recently as at the SH game. Based on reports from Paultz, I assume we'll never see the likes of him again. Good bye and good luck.

Just to be clear. I am not certain how long the "leave" will be for. Since the problem has festered I just don't see a quick return.

What you have to love about rooting for this team is the way it keeps you guessing. A little over 48 hours ago, you could draw up a way for there to be two Top 10 teams playing in the Garden Tuesday night. Now a tricky game just got a lot trickier tomorrow and you can draw up a way for there to only be one ranked team playing in the Garden Tuesday night, with the unranked team without one of its two most talented players and returning to its bread and butter under multiple regimes the last 10 years: the 5 man rotation! WE ARE!

Interesting points.

Even if I cast no blame on anyone in this situation, I find myself asking a basic question, should this program be much more stable? Is there anything that can be done to reduce the instability that seems to plague us? If this is the norm, so be it. I can then find another diversion. If it is not, how can we get to a less volatile level & who is responsible for accomplishing that? My desire is to root for a team that has a minimum of drama, continuity, competes for a BE championship annually & goes to the Dance more often than not. As things stand, I have a hard time believing we will achieve that status. It seems like we get headed in the right direction only to be derailed. "Always something" could be our motto.

I've been saying this for awhile, St. John's is a tough sell to get kids to come here. This isn't the 80's anymore, things have changed so much in college BB since then. Of course Lavin gets the blame, but it's almost like he's got to take a chance on imperfect kids. I would wonder what realistic coach we could bring in here that could do a better recruiting job. At least Lavin has us in the running for the top talent. Norm was supposed to be an expert recruiter, and look how badly he failed at it.

*Edit: I don't want to make this seem like a Lavin defense. I'm not happy at all with the way he's seemingly taken recruiting periods off and put our future in a lot of doubt.

Before you go and bash Norm keep in mind that Norm, on a shoestring budget and with tight parameters on the kind of kids he was allowed to recruit, recruited the only team in the last dozen + years to make the NCAA tourny. Lavin has a seemingly unlimited budget and is clearly allowed to recruit any kind of kid he wants, regardless of the risk involved. I would argue that Norm actually did a better job all things considered.

I like and respect you but come on. Does anyone give Wes Westrum or Casey Stengel credit for the 69 Mets because they managed a lot of the players on the 69 team. Just imagine what our 11-2 team's record would be if coached by Norm. End of story.

 

[monte]

Got home a little while ago from the CTK-Molloy game. Rawle as usual a man amongst boys. Anyhow as others have said, this is disappointing but not surprising. There have been warning signs including his demeanor as recently as at the SH game. Based on reports from Paultz, I assume we'll never see the likes of him again. Good bye and good luck.

Just to be clear. I am not certain how long the "leave" will be for. Since the problem has festered I just don't see a quick return.

What you have to love about rooting for this team is the way it keeps you guessing. A little over 48 hours ago, you could draw up a way for there to be two Top 10 teams playing in the Garden Tuesday night. Now a tricky game just got a lot trickier tomorrow and you can draw up a way for there to only be one ranked team playing in the Garden Tuesday night, with the unranked team without one of its two most talented players and returning to its bread and butter under multiple regimes the last 10 years: the 5 man rotation! WE ARE!

Interesting points.

Even if I cast no blame on anyone in this situation, I find myself asking a basic question, should this program be much more stable? Is there anything that can be done to reduce the instability that seems to plague us? If this is the norm, so be it. I can then find another diversion. If it is not, how can we get to a less volatile level & who is responsible for accomplishing that? My desire is to root for a team that has a minimum of drama, continuity, competes for a BE championship annually & goes to the Dance more often than not. As things stand, I have a hard time believing we will achieve that status. It seems like we get headed in the right direction only to be derailed. "Always something" could be our motto.

I've been saying this for awhile, St. John's is a tough sell to get kids to come here. This isn't the 80's anymore, things have changed so much in college BB since then. Of course Lavin gets the blame, but it's almost like he's got to take a chance on imperfect kids. I would wonder what realistic coach we could bring in here that could do a better recruiting job. At least Lavin has us in the running for the top talent. Norm was supposed to be an expert recruiter, and look how badly he failed at it.

*Edit: I don't want to make this seem like a Lavin defense. I'm not happy at all with the way he's seemingly taken recruiting periods off and put our future in a lot of doubt.

Before you go and bash Norm keep in mind that Norm, on a shoestring budget and with tight parameters on the kind of kids he was allowed to recruit, recruited the only team in the last dozen + years to make the NCAA tourny. Lavin has a seemingly unlimited budget and is clearly allowed to recruit any kind of kid he wants, regardless of the risk involved. I would argue that Norm actually did a better job all things considered.

I like and respect you but come on. Does anyone give Wes Westrum or Casey Stengel credit for the 69 Mets because they managed a lot of the players on the 69 team. Just imagine what our 11-2 team's record would be if coached by Norm. End of story.

I like and respect you too, but re-read the posts, but we are talking about recruiting, nothing else.

 

[Jack Williams]

We can still make the tournament but our team will be dead stamina wise by march

Do you see us winning 11 games in the Big East without Jordan in the top 6 players?

No. But do we need to is the question. 10-8, or 9-9 with a BET win could do it if St Mary's, Cuse, Minesota, and LBSU all play well and are also tournament teams

 

[billthetruth]

Got home a little while ago from the CTK-Molloy game. Rawle as usual a man amongst boys. Anyhow as others have said, this is disappointing but not surprising. There have been warning signs including his demeanor as recently as at the SH game. Based on reports from Paultz, I assume we'll never see the likes of him again. Good bye and good luck.

Just to be clear. I am not certain how long the "leave" will be for. Since the problem has festered I just don't see a quick return.

What you have to love about rooting for this team is the way it keeps you guessing. A little over 48 hours ago, you could draw up a way for there to be two Top 10 teams playing in the Garden Tuesday night. Now a tricky game just got a lot trickier tomorrow and you can draw up a way for there to only be one ranked team playing in the Garden Tuesday night, with the unranked team without one of its two most talented players and returning to its bread and butter under multiple regimes the last 10 years: the 5 man rotation! WE ARE!

Interesting points.

Even if I cast no blame on anyone in this situation, I find myself asking a basic question, should this program be much more stable? Is there anything that can be done to reduce the instability that seems to plague us? If this is the norm, so be it. I can then find another diversion. If it is not, how can we get to a less volatile level & who is responsible for accomplishing that? My desire is to root for a team that has a minimum of drama, continuity, competes for a BE championship annually & goes to the Dance more often than not. As things stand, I have a hard time believing we will achieve that status. It seems like we get headed in the right direction only to be derailed. "Always something" could be our motto.

I've been saying this for awhile, St. John's is a tough sell to get kids to come here. This isn't the 80's anymore, things have changed so much in college BB since then. Of course Lavin gets the blame, but it's almost like he's got to take a chance on imperfect kids. I would wonder what realistic coach we could bring in here that could do a better recruiting job. At least Lavin has us in the running for the top talent. Norm was supposed to be an expert recruiter, and look how badly he failed at it.

*Edit: I don't want to make this seem like a Lavin defense. I'm not happy at all with the way he's seemingly taken recruiting periods off and put our future in a lot of doubt.

Before you go and bash Norm keep in mind that Norm, on a shoestring budget and with tight parameters on the kind of kids he was allowed to recruit, recruited the only team in the last dozen + years to make the NCAA tourny. Lavin has a seemingly unlimited budget and is clearly allowed to recruit any kind of kid he wants, regardless of the risk involved. I would argue that Norm actually did a better job all things considered.

Norm was avnice guy but that does not change the fact that he was in way over his head. Should have never been hired off of his coaching resume.

 

[salty dog]

Got home a little while ago from the CTK-Molloy game. Rawle as usual a man amongst boys. Anyhow as others have said, this is disappointing but not surprising. There have been warning signs including his demeanor as recently as at the SH game. Based on reports from Paultz, I assume we'll never see the likes of him again. Good bye and good luck.

Just to be clear. I am not certain how long the "leave" will be for. Since the problem has festered I just don't see a quick return.

What you have to love about rooting for this team is the way it keeps you guessing. A little over 48 hours ago, you could draw up a way for there to be two Top 10 teams playing in the Garden Tuesday night. Now a tricky game just got a lot trickier tomorrow and you can draw up a way for there to only be one ranked team playing in the Garden Tuesday night, with the unranked team without one of its two most talented players and returning to its bread and butter under multiple regimes the last 10 years: the 5 man rotation! WE ARE!

Interesting points.

Even if I cast no blame on anyone in this situation, I find myself asking a basic question, should this program be much more stable? Is there anything that can be done to reduce the instability that seems to plague us? If this is the norm, so be it. I can then find another diversion. If it is not, how can we get to a less volatile level & who is responsible for accomplishing that? My desire is to root for a team that has a minimum of drama, continuity, competes for a BE championship annually & goes to the Dance more often than not. As things stand, I have a hard time believing we will achieve that status. It seems like we get headed in the right direction only to be derailed. "Always something" could be our motto.

I've been saying this for awhile, St. John's is a tough sell to get kids to come here. This isn't the 80's anymore, things have changed so much in college BB since then. Of course Lavin gets the blame, but it's almost like he's got to take a chance on imperfect kids. I would wonder what realistic coach we could bring in here that could do a better recruiting job. At least Lavin has us in the running for the top talent. Norm was supposed to be an expert recruiter, and look how badly he failed at it.

*Edit: I don't want to make this seem like a Lavin defense. I'm not happy at all with the way he's seemingly taken recruiting periods off and put our future in a lot of doubt.

Before you go and bash Norm keep in mind that Norm, on a shoestring budget and with tight parameters on the kind of kids he was allowed to recruit, recruited the only team in the last dozen + years to make the NCAA tourny. Lavin has a seemingly unlimited budget and is clearly allowed to recruit any kind of kid he wants, regardless of the risk involved. I would argue that Norm actually did a better job all things considered.

This garbage takes the cake!

 

[beast of the east]

Got home a little while ago from the CTK-Molloy game. Rawle as usual a man amongst boys. Anyhow as others have said, this is disappointing but not surprising. There have been warning signs including his demeanor as recently as at the SH game. Based on reports from Paultz, I assume we'll never see the likes of him again. Good bye and good luck.

Just to be clear. I am not certain how long the "leave" will be for. Since the problem has festered I just don't see a quick return.

What you have to love about rooting for this team is the way it keeps you guessing. A little over 48 hours ago, you could draw up a way for there to be two Top 10 teams playing in the Garden Tuesday night. Now a tricky game just got a lot trickier tomorrow and you can draw up a way for there to only be one ranked team playing in the Garden Tuesday night, with the unranked team without one of its two most talented players and returning to its bread and butter under multiple regimes the last 10 years: the 5 man rotation! WE ARE!

Interesting points.

Even if I cast no blame on anyone in this situation, I find myself asking a basic question, should this program be much more stable? Is there anything that can be done to reduce the instability that seems to plague us? If this is the norm, so be it. I can then find another diversion. If it is not, how can we get to a less volatile level & who is responsible for accomplishing that? My desire is to root for a team that has a minimum of drama, continuity, competes for a BE championship annually & goes to the Dance more often than not. As things stand, I have a hard time believing we will achieve that status. It seems like we get headed in the right direction only to be derailed. "Always something" could be our motto.

I've been saying this for awhile, St. John's is a tough sell to get kids to come here. This isn't the 80's anymore, things have changed so much in college BB since then. Of course Lavin gets the blame, but it's almost like he's got to take a chance on imperfect kids. I would wonder what realistic coach we could bring in here that could do a better recruiting job. At least Lavin has us in the running for the top talent. Norm was supposed to be an expert recruiter, and look how badly he failed at it.

*Edit: I don't want to make this seem like a Lavin defense. I'm not happy at all with the way he's seemingly taken recruiting periods off and put our future in a lot of doubt.

Before you go and bash Norm keep in mind that Norm, on a shoestring budget and with tight parameters on the kind of kids he was allowed to recruit, recruited the only team in the last dozen + years to make the NCAA tourny. Lavin has a seemingly unlimited budget and is clearly allowed to recruit any kind of kid he wants, regardless of the risk involved. I would argue that Norm actually did a better job all things considered.

I like and respect you but come on. Does anyone give Wes Westrum or Casey Stengel credit for the 69 Mets because they managed a lot of the players on the 69 team. Just imagine what our 11-2 team's record would be if coached by Norm. End of story.

I like and respect you too, but re-read the posts, but we are talking about recruiting, nothing else.

This is a story that goes around and around. Lavin's first roster was so loaded with seniors that only Malik Stith was on the next years roster (for a few games at least). And all of that team's success was encapsulated in one crazy 10-12 game run fueled by Hardy (bench player for Norm) going off. Before and after the team was quite mediocre.

 

[billthetruth]

Got home a little while ago from the CTK-Molloy game. Rawle as usual a man amongst boys. Anyhow as others have said, this is disappointing but not surprising. There have been warning signs including his demeanor as recently as at the SH game. Based on reports from Paultz, I assume we'll never see the likes of him again. Good bye and good luck.

Just to be clear. I am not certain how long the "leave" will be for. Since the problem has festered I just don't see a quick return.

What you have to love about rooting for this team is the way it keeps you guessing. A little over 48 hours ago, you could draw up a way for there to be two Top 10 teams playing in the Garden Tuesday night. Now a tricky game just got a lot trickier tomorrow and you can draw up a way for there to only be one ranked team playing in the Garden Tuesday night, with the unranked team without one of its two most talented players and returning to its bread and butter under multiple regimes the last 10 years: the 5 man rotation! WE ARE!

Interesting points.

Even if I cast no blame on anyone in this situation, I find myself asking a basic question, should this program be much more stable? Is there anything that can be done to reduce the instability that seems to plague us? If this is the norm, so be it. I can then find another diversion. If it is not, how can we get to a less volatile level & who is responsible for accomplishing that? My desire is to root for a team that has a minimum of drama, continuity, competes for a BE championship annually & goes to the Dance more often than not. As things stand, I have a hard time believing we will achieve that status. It seems like we get headed in the right direction only to be derailed. "Always something" could be our motto.

I've been saying this for awhile, St. John's is a tough sell to get kids to come here. This isn't the 80's anymore, things have changed so much in college BB since then. Of course Lavin gets the blame, but it's almost like he's got to take a chance on imperfect kids. I would wonder what realistic coach we could bring in here that could do a better recruiting job. At least Lavin has us in the running for the top talent. Norm was supposed to be an expert recruiter, and look how badly he failed at it.

*Edit: I don't want to make this seem like a Lavin defense. I'm not happy at all with the way he's seemingly taken recruiting periods off and put our future in a lot of doubt.

Before you go and bash Norm keep in mind that Norm, on a shoestring budget and with tight parameters on the kind of kids he was allowed to recruit, recruited the only team in the last dozen + years to make the NCAA tourny. Lavin has a seemingly unlimited budget and is clearly allowed to recruit any kind of kid he wants, regardless of the risk involved. I would argue that Norm actually did a better job all things considered.

This garbage takes the cake!

Some people have a really short term memory. They dont remember how irrelevant sju basketball was under norm. Like lavin or not. He has raised the interest in this team.

 

[beast of the east]

We can still make the tournament but our team will be dead stamina wise by march

Do you see us winning 11 games in the Big East without Jordan in the top 6 players?

No. But do we need to is the question. 10-8, or 9-9 with a BET win could do it if St Mary's, Cuse, Minesota, and LBSU all play well and are also tournament teams

Jack, I'm hoping this season doesn't turn into a bust, but also remember that subjectively, if we are a bubble team, the committee will look at the 11-2 without Jordan and 9-9 without (throw in a BET and Duke loss), and decide to look elsewhere. 20-13 won't make the dance without Jordan. But I respect your opinion and hope you are right.

 

[monte]

Got home a little while ago from the CTK-Molloy game. Rawle as usual a man amongst boys. Anyhow as others have said, this is disappointing but not surprising. There have been warning signs including his demeanor as recently as at the SH game. Based on reports from Paultz, I assume we'll never see the likes of him again. Good bye and good luck.

Just to be clear. I am not certain how long the "leave" will be for. Since the problem has festered I just don't see a quick return.

What you have to love about rooting for this team is the way it keeps you guessing. A little over 48 hours ago, you could draw up a way for there to be two Top 10 teams playing in the Garden Tuesday night. Now a tricky game just got a lot trickier tomorrow and you can draw up a way for there to only be one ranked team playing in the Garden Tuesday night, with the unranked team without one of its two most talented players and returning to its bread and butter under multiple regimes the last 10 years: the 5 man rotation! WE ARE!

Interesting points.

Even if I cast no blame on anyone in this situation, I find myself asking a basic question, should this program be much more stable? Is there anything that can be done to reduce the instability that seems to plague us? If this is the norm, so be it. I can then find another diversion. If it is not, how can we get to a less volatile level & who is responsible for accomplishing that? My desire is to root for a team that has a minimum of drama, continuity, competes for a BE championship annually & goes to the Dance more often than not. As things stand, I have a hard time believing we will achieve that status. It seems like we get headed in the right direction only to be derailed. "Always something" could be our motto.

I've been saying this for awhile, St. John's is a tough sell to get kids to come here. This isn't the 80's anymore, things have changed so much in college BB since then. Of course Lavin gets the blame, but it's almost like he's got to take a chance on imperfect kids. I would wonder what realistic coach we could bring in here that could do a better recruiting job. At least Lavin has us in the running for the top talent. Norm was supposed to be an expert recruiter, and look how badly he failed at it.

*Edit: I don't want to make this seem like a Lavin defense. I'm not happy at all with the way he's seemingly taken recruiting periods off and put our future in a lot of doubt.

Before you go and bash Norm keep in mind that Norm, on a shoestring budget and with tight parameters on the kind of kids he was allowed to recruit, recruited the only team in the last dozen + years to make the NCAA tourny. Lavin has a seemingly unlimited budget and is clearly allowed to recruit any kind of kid he wants, regardless of the risk involved. I would argue that Norm actually did a better job all things considered.

Norm was avnice guy but that does not change the fact that he was in way over his head. Should have never been hired off of his coaching resume.

Agreed, but you're missing the point. I was not talking about Norm's coaching ability or whether or not he was qualified for the job(he wasn't). My post was in response to someone who was bashing Norm's recruiting. He had far more limitations both in budget and in the type of kid he was allowed to recruit coming off the scandal.

 

[beast of the east]

Got home a little while ago from the CTK-Molloy game. Rawle as usual a man amongst boys. Anyhow as others have said, this is disappointing but not surprising. There have been warning signs including his demeanor as recently as at the SH game. Based on reports from Paultz, I assume we'll never see the likes of him again. Good bye and good luck.

Just to be clear. I am not certain how long the "leave" will be for. Since the problem has festered I just don't see a quick return.

What you have to love about rooting for this team is the way it keeps you guessing. A little over 48 hours ago, you could draw up a way for there to be two Top 10 teams playing in the Garden Tuesday night. Now a tricky game just got a lot trickier tomorrow and you can draw up a way for there to only be one ranked team playing in the Garden Tuesday night, with the unranked team without one of its two most talented players and returning to its bread and butter under multiple regimes the last 10 years: the 5 man rotation! WE ARE!

Interesting points.

Even if I cast no blame on anyone in this situation, I find myself asking a basic question, should this program be much more stable? Is there anything that can be done to reduce the instability that seems to plague us? If this is the norm, so be it. I can then find another diversion. If it is not, how can we get to a less volatile level & who is responsible for accomplishing that? My desire is to root for a team that has a minimum of drama, continuity, competes for a BE championship annually & goes to the Dance more often than not. As things stand, I have a hard time believing we will achieve that status. It seems like we get headed in the right direction only to be derailed. "Always something" could be our motto.

I've been saying this for awhile, St. John's is a tough sell to get kids to come here. This isn't the 80's anymore, things have changed so much in college BB since then. Of course Lavin gets the blame, but it's almost like he's got to take a chance on imperfect kids. I would wonder what realistic coach we could bring in here that could do a better recruiting job. At least Lavin has us in the running for the top talent. Norm was supposed to be an expert recruiter, and look how badly he failed at it.

*Edit: I don't want to make this seem like a Lavin defense. I'm not happy at all with the way he's seemingly taken recruiting periods off and put our future in a lot of doubt.

Before you go and bash Norm keep in mind that Norm, on a shoestring budget and with tight parameters on the kind of kids he was allowed to recruit, recruited the only team in the last dozen + years to make the NCAA tourny. Lavin has a seemingly unlimited budget and is clearly allowed to recruit any kind of kid he wants, regardless of the risk involved. I would argue that Norm actually did a better job all things considered.

Norm was avnice guy but that does not change the fact that he was in way over his head. Should have never been hired off of his coaching resume.

Agreed, but you're missing the point. I was not talking about Norm's coaching ability or whether or not he was qualified for the job(he wasn't). My post was in response to someone who was bashing Norm's recruiting. He had far more limitations both in budget and in the type of kid he was allowed to recruit coming off the scandal.

Just remember: Any time we are all in a pissy mood, bringing up Norm never helps calm the storm.

 

[lawmanfan]

IMHO Jordan is easily replaceable in terms of production on the floor.

The potential is there, but his head has been in the way of him tapping into it until now. Doesn't seem as though that's going to improve anytime soon. Unfortunate for the kid.

 

[Class of 72]

Got home a little while ago from the CTK-Molloy game. Rawle as usual a man amongst boys. Anyhow as others have said, this is disappointing but not surprising. There have been warning signs including his demeanor as recently as at the SH game. Based on reports from Paultz, I assume we'll never see the likes of him again. Good bye and good luck.

Just to be clear. I am not certain how long the "leave" will be for. Since the problem has festered I just don't see a quick return.

What you have to love about rooting for this team is the way it keeps you guessing. A little over 48 hours ago, you could draw up a way for there to be two Top 10 teams playing in the Garden Tuesday night. Now a tricky game just got a lot trickier tomorrow and you can draw up a way for there to only be one ranked team playing in the Garden Tuesday night, with the unranked team without one of its two most talented players and returning to its bread and butter under multiple regimes the last 10 years: the 5 man rotation! WE ARE!

Interesting points.

Even if I cast no blame on anyone in this situation, I find myself asking a basic question, should this program be much more stable? Is there anything that can be done to reduce the instability that seems to plague us? If this is the norm, so be it. I can then find another diversion. If it is not, how can we get to a less volatile level & who is responsible for accomplishing that? My desire is to root for a team that has a minimum of drama, continuity, competes for a BE championship annually & goes to the Dance more often than not. As things stand, I have a hard time believing we will achieve that status. It seems like we get headed in the right direction only to be derailed. "Always something" could be our motto.

I've been saying this for awhile, St. John's is a tough sell to get kids to come here. This isn't the 80's anymore, things have changed so much in college BB since then. Of course Lavin gets the blame, but it's almost like he's got to take a chance on imperfect kids. I would wonder what realistic coach we could bring in here that could do a better recruiting job. At least Lavin has us in the running for the top talent. Norm was supposed to be an expert recruiter, and look how badly he failed at it.

*Edit: I don't want to make this seem like a Lavin defense. I'm not happy at all with the way he's seemingly taken recruiting periods off and put our future in a lot of doubt.

I have never subscribed to your view that St Johns is a tough sell. There are schools and programs that have enjoyed or are enjoying success in lesser locations. Gonzaga in Spokane, Xavier in Cincinnati, Villanova in Radnor, Davidson in the sticks, Syracuse in the North Pole, Butler, San Diego State, and others. For Christmas sake, NYC should be an easy sell for hungry and aggressive coaches. Hiring lazies or losers has been our athletic administration's history since Brian Mahoney was endorsed by Lou. The current situation is eerie in that it is shaping up to end like the Jarvis fiasco. Coaches with big egos thinking they deserve(d) contract extension without proving they worked hard enough for it, sabotaging their recruiting efforts with JC talent and walk ons and alienating the fan base. I agree with Paultzman in regard to the length of Rysheed's absence and since the Spring semester does not begin until January 21st, neither party will have any incentive to contact the other. If Jordan returns before that date he may have gotten the message. What message? That I (Lavin ) will ruin your selfish fckn NBA dream by exposing you as uncoachable and making you damaged goods even if it means losing my job since Class of 72 says I am losing it anyway. :angry:

 

[monte]

Got home a little while ago from the CTK-Molloy game. Rawle as usual a man amongst boys. Anyhow as others have said, this is disappointing but not surprising. There have been warning signs including his demeanor as recently as at the SH game. Based on reports from Paultz, I assume we'll never see the likes of him again. Good bye and good luck.

Just to be clear. I am not certain how long the "leave" will be for. Since the problem has festered I just don't see a quick return.

What you have to love about rooting for this team is the way it keeps you guessing. A little over 48 hours ago, you could draw up a way for there to be two Top 10 teams playing in the Garden Tuesday night. Now a tricky game just got a lot trickier tomorrow and you can draw up a way for there to only be one ranked team playing in the Garden Tuesday night, with the unranked team without one of its two most talented players and returning to its bread and butter under multiple regimes the last 10 years: the 5 man rotation! WE ARE!

Interesting points.

Even if I cast no blame on anyone in this situation, I find myself asking a basic question, should this program be much more stable? Is there anything that can be done to reduce the instability that seems to plague us? If this is the norm, so be it. I can then find another diversion. If it is not, how can we get to a less volatile level & who is responsible for accomplishing that? My desire is to root for a team that has a minimum of drama, continuity, competes for a BE championship annually & goes to the Dance more often than not. As things stand, I have a hard time believing we will achieve that status. It seems like we get headed in the right direction only to be derailed. "Always something" could be our motto.

I've been saying this for awhile, St. John's is a tough sell to get kids to come here. This isn't the 80's anymore, things have changed so much in college BB since then. Of course Lavin gets the blame, but it's almost like he's got to take a chance on imperfect kids. I would wonder what realistic coach we could bring in here that could do a better recruiting job. At least Lavin has us in the running for the top talent. Norm was supposed to be an expert recruiter, and look how badly he failed at it.

*Edit: I don't want to make this seem like a Lavin defense. I'm not happy at all with the way he's seemingly taken recruiting periods off and put our future in a lot of doubt.

Before you go and bash Norm keep in mind that Norm, on a shoestring budget and with tight parameters on the kind of kids he was allowed to recruit, recruited the only team in the last dozen + years to make the NCAA tourny. Lavin has a seemingly unlimited budget and is clearly allowed to recruit any kind of kid he wants, regardless of the risk involved. I would argue that Norm actually did a better job all things considered.

I like and respect you but come on. Does anyone give Wes Westrum or Casey Stengel credit for the 69 Mets because they managed a lot of the players on the 69 team. Just imagine what our 11-2 team's record would be if coached by Norm. End of story.

I like and respect you too, but re-read the posts, but we are talking about recruiting, nothing else.

This is a story that goes around and around. Lavin's first roster was so loaded with seniors that only Malik Stith was on the next years roster (for a few games at least). And all of that team's success was encapsulated in one crazy 10-12 game run fueled by Hardy (bench player for Norm) going off. Before and after the team was quite mediocre.

Norm was a lame duck coach the year before, so of course the cupboard was bare the following year. Except of course for Ron Roberts, who Lavin promptly discarded in his first brilliant move. Anyhow I'm not going to get in to a pissing match with you over this, especially over something that happened 5 years ago. Think what you want.

 

[Class of 72]

IMHO Jordan is easily replaceable in terms of production on the floor.

The potential is there, but his head has been in the way of him tapping into it until now. Doesn't seem as though that's going to improve anytime soon. Unfortunate for the kid.

Congrats, you have deciphered what I meant when I said he has a stomach flu in the head.

 

[monte]

Got home a little while ago from the CTK-Molloy game. Rawle as usual a man amongst boys. Anyhow as others have said, this is disappointing but not surprising. There have been warning signs including his demeanor as recently as at the SH game. Based on reports from Paultz, I assume we'll never see the likes of him again. Good bye and good luck.

Just to be clear. I am not certain how long the "leave" will be for. Since the problem has festered I just don't see a quick return.

What you have to love about rooting for this team is the way it keeps you guessing. A little over 48 hours ago, you could draw up a way for there to be two Top 10 teams playing in the Garden Tuesday night. Now a tricky game just got a lot trickier tomorrow and you can draw up a way for there to only be one ranked team playing in the Garden Tuesday night, with the unranked team without one of its two most talented players and returning to its bread and butter under multiple regimes the last 10 years: the 5 man rotation! WE ARE!

Interesting points.

Even if I cast no blame on anyone in this situation, I find myself asking a basic question, should this program be much more stable? Is there anything that can be done to reduce the instability that seems to plague us? If this is the norm, so be it. I can then find another diversion. If it is not, how can we get to a less volatile level & who is responsible for accomplishing that? My desire is to root for a team that has a minimum of drama, continuity, competes for a BE championship annually & goes to the Dance more often than not. As things stand, I have a hard time believing we will achieve that status. It seems like we get headed in the right direction only to be derailed. "Always something" could be our motto.

I've been saying this for awhile, St. John's is a tough sell to get kids to come here. This isn't the 80's anymore, things have changed so much in college BB since then. Of course Lavin gets the blame, but it's almost like he's got to take a chance on imperfect kids. I would wonder what realistic coach we could bring in here that could do a better recruiting job. At least Lavin has us in the running for the top talent. Norm was supposed to be an expert recruiter, and look how badly he failed at it.

*Edit: I don't want to make this seem like a Lavin defense. I'm not happy at all with the way he's seemingly taken recruiting periods off and put our future in a lot of doubt.

Before you go and bash Norm keep in mind that Norm, on a shoestring budget and with tight parameters on the kind of kids he was allowed to recruit, recruited the only team in the last dozen + years to make the NCAA tourny. Lavin has a seemingly unlimited budget and is clearly allowed to recruit any kind of kid he wants, regardless of the risk involved. I would argue that Norm actually did a better job all things considered.

Norm was avnice guy but that does not change the fact that he was in way over his head. Should have never been hired off of his coaching resume.

Agreed, but you're missing the point. I was not talking about Norm's coaching ability or whether or not he was qualified for the job(he wasn't). My post was in response to someone who was bashing Norm's recruiting. He had far more limitations both in budget and in the type of kid he was allowed to recruit coming off the scandal.

Just remember: Any time we are all in a pissy mood, bringing up Norm never helps calm the storm.

I didn't bring up Norm, I responded to someone else who bashed him seemingly in an attempt to elevate Lavin.

 

[room112]

Got home a little while ago from the CTK-Molloy game. Rawle as usual a man amongst boys. Anyhow as others have said, this is disappointing but not surprising. There have been warning signs including his demeanor as recently as at the SH game. Based on reports from Paultz, I assume we'll never see the likes of him again. Good bye and good luck.

Just to be clear. I am not certain how long the "leave" will be for. Since the problem has festered I just don't see a quick return.

What you have to love about rooting for this team is the way it keeps you guessing. A little over 48 hours ago, you could draw up a way for there to be two Top 10 teams playing in the Garden Tuesday night. Now a tricky game just got a lot trickier tomorrow and you can draw up a way for there to only be one ranked team playing in the Garden Tuesday night, with the unranked team without one of its two most talented players and returning to its bread and butter under multiple regimes the last 10 years: the 5 man rotation! WE ARE!

Interesting points.

Even if I cast no blame on anyone in this situation, I find myself asking a basic question, should this program be much more stable? Is there anything that can be done to reduce the instability that seems to plague us? If this is the norm, so be it. I can then find another diversion. If it is not, how can we get to a less volatile level & who is responsible for accomplishing that? My desire is to root for a team that has a minimum of drama, continuity, competes for a BE championship annually & goes to the Dance more often than not. As things stand, I have a hard time believing we will achieve that status. It seems like we get headed in the right direction only to be derailed. "Always something" could be our motto.

I've been saying this for awhile, St. John's is a tough sell to get kids to come here. This isn't the 80's anymore, things have changed so much in college BB since then. Of course Lavin gets the blame, but it's almost like he's got to take a chance on imperfect kids. I would wonder what realistic coach we could bring in here that could do a better recruiting job. At least Lavin has us in the running for the top talent. Norm was supposed to be an expert recruiter, and look how badly he failed at it.

*Edit: I don't want to make this seem like a Lavin defense. I'm not happy at all with the way he's seemingly taken recruiting periods off and put our future in a lot of doubt.

I have never subscribed to your view that St Johns is a tough sell. There are schools and programs that have enjoyed or are enjoying success in lesser locations. Gonzaga in Spokane, Xavier in Cincinnati, Villanova in Radnor, Davidson in the sticks, Syracuse in the North Pole, Butler, San Diego State, and others. For Christmas sake, NYC should be an easy sell for hungry and aggressive coaches. Hiring lazies or losers has been our athletic administration's history since Brian Mahoney was endorsed by Lou. The current situation is eerie in that it is shaping up to end like the Jarvis fiasco. Coaches with big egos thinking they deserve(d) contract extension without proving they worked hard enough for it, sabotaging their recruiting efforts with JC talent and walk ons and alienating the fan base. I agree with Paultzman in regard to the length of Rysheed's absence and since the Spring semester does not begin until January 21st, neither party will have any incentive to contact the other. If Jordan returns before that date he may have gotten the message. What message? That I (Lavin ) will ruin your selfish fckn NBA dream by exposing you as uncoachable and making you damaged goods even if it means losing my job since Class of 72 says I am losing it anyway. :angry:

You're missing my point though. You're not selling the top kids on NYC anymore. With the emergence of mainstream media and social media, these guys think they're rock stars in high school. Location hasn't proven to be a factor and time and time again we've seen kids interested in leaving home rather than put NY on their back. Kids are looking to get to the next level by any means necessary, even if they have to go to Podunk U. But the biggest thing is the level of support at schools like Syracuse, using your example. They are the main attraction there. Look how little support there is for st. John's.