It begins...

[Jack Williams]

People should have the right to take or not take the vaccine.  I am old fat and have Diabetes I took it as soon as I could.  I wont take a flu shot even though everyone tell me every year i should.  I got sick from every flu shot i ever took.  Let people talk to their doctors and make up their own minds and don't judge them because you are holier than thou.  As in everything do your own research don't blindly listen to everything either side says and after doing that research do what is best for your situation.

sure but if you’re an athlete or a coach for a professional sports team, you not getting vaccinated increases the chances of a team wide outbreak, which then could cause you to have to forfeit games or play without starters… 

so I have no problem with teams putting their foot down and wanting all personnel to be vaxxed. It’s a business at the end of the day 

 

[SJUFAN2]

kranmars post=437057I had Covid early April 2020, and still have the antibodies. I am not getting jabbed. And my case is far from unique. As the science evolves, so does the initial theory that antibodies only last about 60 days. 

My 16 year old son also has the antibodies and he was totally asymptotic. May have caught it from me. 

One of my doctors agrees because the natural antibodies are better than a vaccine.

And I will wait for the NIAID, FDA, and CDC to be fully backed first (Fauci, Marks and Walensky all said under oath their numbers are around 60 percent).

I do not care who gets the shot,  but mandating a shot that is still a “trial” is dangerous, especially when (again) many already have the antibodies. The VAERS database has deaths relating to the the Covid vax at 6,000 and it’s various side affects. Not to mention, I have had a very personal experience of the bad side affects of vaccines.

And both of my kids were fully vaccinated growing up. So I am not coming into this with an anti vaccine angle.

Good day. 

I agree that having had it, and having antibodies still in your system, is a legitimate reason to not get the vaccine at this point.

Having said that I went to the VAERS website to take a look at the 6,000 deaths you referenced and couldn't get past the many disclaimers  stating not to use their data to draw conclusions because its submitted by numerous sources including the "general public."   Having seen what the "general public" shares as "fact" on Facebook and other social media platforms, lets just say I find that total to be "dubious" at best without context.

Lets just assume that all gov't stats are accurate for a moment:
35M confirmed cases and over 600,000 deaths in Americans without the vax or antibody immunity  (1.7% chance of dying)
vs.
200m doses of vax and maybe 6,000 deaths in Americans trying to avoid option 1.   (0.003% chance of a lethal outcome).

Politics aside, if someone hasn't had Covid yet and they aren't getting the vax they are part of the problem, not part of the solution.  I wish them well as this pandemic and its endless parade of new variants ravages the un-vaccinated.

Had to share, just for the ending alone...
 

 

[mjmaherjr]

kranmars post=437057I had Covid early April 2020, and still have the antibodies. I am not getting jabbed. And my case is far from unique. As the science evolves, so does the initial theory that antibodies only last about 60 days. 

My 16 year old son also has the antibodies and he was totally asymptotic. May have caught it from me. 

One of my doctors agrees because the natural antibodies are better than a vaccine.

And I will wait for the NIAID, FDA, and CDC to be fully backed first (Fauci, Marks and Walensky all said under oath their numbers are around 60 percent).

I do not care who gets the shot,  but mandating a shot that is still a “trial” is dangerous, especially when (again) many already have the antibodies. The VAERS database has deaths relating to the the Covid vax at 6,000 and it’s various side affects. Not to mention, I have had a very personal experience of the bad side affects of vaccines.

And both of my kids were fully vaccinated growing up. So I am not coming into this with an anti vaccine angle.

Good day. 

I agree that having had it, and having antibodies still in your system, is a legitimate reason to not get the vaccine at this point.

Having said that I went to the VAERS website to take a look at the 6,000 deaths you referenced and couldn't get past the many disclaimers  stating not to use their data to draw conclusion because its submitted by numerous sources including the "general public."   Having seen what the "general public" shares as "fact" on Facebook and other social media platforms, lets just say I find that total to be "dubious" at best without context.

Lets just assume that all gov't stats are accurate for a moment:
35M confirmed cases and over 600,000 deaths in Americans without the vax or antibody immunity  (1.7% chance of dying)
vs.
200m doses of vax and maybe 6,000 deaths in Americans trying to avoid option 1.   (0.003% chance of a lethal out come).

Politics aside, if someone hasn't had Covid yet and they aren't getting the vax they are part of the problem, not part of the solution.  I wish them well as this pandemic and its endless parade of new variants ravages the un-vaccinated.

[URL]https://twitter.com/jaesofamous/status/1419000103575109632?s[/URL]=20]Had to share, just for the ending alone..[/url]
 

[URL]https://www.yahoo.com/news/most-influential-spreader-coronavirus-misinformation-141227038.html[/URL]

 

[Moose]

PGA Golfer Jon Rahm tested positive between the 3rd and 4th round of a recent tournament he was winning by 7 shots. (While getting his vaccine shot earlier that same week ironically)

He was then cleared.  Won the US open a few weeks later and again tested positive before the Olympics which he now cannot compete in.  I'm not sure anyone has a clue about antibodies and their purpose.

 

[johnsliva]

I never said there should not be repercussions, you make your choices and live with them.  The NFL has every right to make the rule and they guys have every right to quit. 

 

[austour]

COVID vaccines save lives and have minimal side effects - end of story. 

We have 162 million people full vaccinated over an 8 month period in this country alone. If that's not enough of a sample size to show efficacy and safety, I don't know what is. 


 

But but but I don't want to be a guinea pig. 

PS over 1 billion fully vaccinated around the world, well over 2 billion with at least 1 shot.

 

 

[bucketshardy]

Seems the board is overwhelming on one side of this discussion, which is good, vaccines are evidence of an advanced society and these are the steps that are needed to hopefully move forward. 

The board also seems rational enough to acknowledge there are always potential adverse effects to various vaccines, however low the percentage. With this particular one- and adverse effect acknowledged by the FDA is heart inflammation ([URL]https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/2...-inflammation-to-pfizer-moderna-vaccines.html[/URL]), however rare the side effect, it exists. 

So my concern, as we now see coming to fruition, is mandatory policies being issued by employers. I believe all entities in the U.S. are "at-will" companies, you dont have take the vax, but you also don't have to work there. 

My question to the board- If an employee doesn't feel they have much of a choice, or good prospects outside their current role, and they suffer an adverse effect - worst case- a fatal effect, do you feel the a Company owes that individual's family any compensation? or is it just a- thanks for playing, but that was your choice. 

I'm glad the vaccine exists, but feel we might be entering into a two-tiered class society- where certain opportunities will be limited. 

 

[mjmaherjr]

Seems the board is overwhelming on one side of this discussion, which is good, vaccines are evidence of an advanced society and these are the steps that are needed to hopefully move forward. 

The board also seems rational enough to acknowledge there are always potential adverse effects to various vaccines, however low the percentage. With this particular one- and adverse effect acknowledged by the FDA is heart inflammation ([URL]https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/2...-inflammation-to-pfizer-moderna-vaccines.html[/URL]), however rare the side effect, it exists. 

So my concern, as we now see coming to fruition, is mandatory policies being issued by employers. I believe all entities in the U.S. are "at-will" companies, you dont have take the vax, but you also don't have to work there. 

My question to the board- If an employee doesn't feel they have much of a choice, or good prospects outside their current role, and they suffer an adverse effect - worst case- a fatal effect, do you feel the a Company owes that individual's family any compensation? or is it just a- thanks for playing, but that was your choice. 

I'm glad the vaccine exists, but feel we might be entering into a two-tiered class society- where certain opportunities will be limited. 

excellent question. No I  dont feel the company owes money but my company if I died while traveling for business I have insurance that they provide that covers my estate for a certain amount. Maybe the govt allows employers who make it mandatory to buy pooled insurance that will pay our for bad adverse  side affect or death. That way the premium isnt expensive so it's not a big hit to companies as far as expense and it goes to the greater good.

Btw I have no problem with people who had covid like Kranmars who are reluctant to get the vaccine. I do have a major problem with anti vaxxers spewing their crap

 

[Knight]

I had Covid in April 2020 and was hospitalized for 10 days followed by 7 days in rehab.  I got the vaccines at Belmont as soon as they were available.  

As for me, there has been too many opinions put forth as science.  Since the vaccines were largely driven by the government, maybe adverse effects should fall on the government, with limitations.  Employers, I believe, have the right to require their workers to be vaccinated.  Those who opt out, well the consequences are on them.

 

[MainMan]

Seems the board is overwhelming on one side of this discussion, which is good, vaccines are evidence of an advanced society and these are the steps that are needed to hopefully move forward. 

The board also seems rational enough to acknowledge there are always potential adverse effects to various vaccines, however low the percentage. With this particular one- and adverse effect acknowledged by the FDA is heart inflammation ([URL]https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/2...-inflammation-to-pfizer-moderna-vaccines.html[/URL]), however rare the side effect, it exists. 

So my concern, as we now see coming to fruition, is mandatory policies being issued by employers. I believe all entities in the U.S. are "at-will" companies, you dont have take the vax, but you also don't have to work there. 

My question to the board- If an employee doesn't feel they have much of a choice, or good prospects outside their current role, and they suffer an adverse effect - worst case- a fatal effect, do you feel the a Company owes that individual's family any compensation? or is it just a- thanks for playing, but that was your choice. 

I'm glad the vaccine exists, but feel we might be entering into a two-tiered class society- where certain opportunities will be limited. 


 

The EEOC has been pretty straightforward on this: employers can fire employees who do not get vaccinated except if there is a legit medical issue or if there is some religious objection, the latter of which imho is total BS. 

One of NJ's major hospital systems - RWBarnabas - just fired six supervisors for refusing to comply with the system's vaccine mandate.  They have now given a deadline for all employees to get the vaccine or suffer the same fate. 

I hope all hospital systems do the same ASAP.




 

 

[MCNPA]

I work and Intensive care unit and have taken care of a multitude of patients with covid.  Most recently I’ve seen a 29 year old girl who no medical problems nor risk factors have to be buried from it.  Her lungs failed and she died.  Had another 20-something have a massive stroke due to hypercoagulation side effects of covid.  Another 30 something with a massive heart attack from it.   Risk factors don’t tell the whole tale.  

The vaccine has been given to hundreds of millions and is overwhelmingly safe. I’ve never seen a person in the icu because they got the shot, but icu’s overwhelmed by this thing.  If you don’t get vaccinated you are plain wrong that it can’t and won’t come for you because you don’t know how your body will respond.  Frankly I wish it was available to my 2 kids under 12.  My 12 year old got the vaccines. Use your brain and get the vaccine. If you don’t you’re foolish.  The risk comparison between the vaccine and covid is really no comparison.

 

[SJUFAN2]

Seems pertinent...

[URL]https://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-57928647[/URL]

 

[SJU Double Alumn]

I think the rational among us have to reconcile that anti-vaxx has a more significant place in our country's culture than we may have ever realized. 

It's extraordinarily disheartening as an American, especially one whose parents grew up at a time when Jonas Salk was hailed as the hero of his generation. 

I agree it is disheartening. But it is not just America. This significant anti-vaxx nuttiness is happening everywhere.

 

[Moose]

I think the rational among us have to reconcile that anti-vaxx has a more significant place in our country's culture than we may have ever realized. 

It's extraordinarily disheartening as an American, especially one whose parents grew up at a time when Jonas Salk was hailed as the hero of his generation. 

I agree it is disheartening. But it is not just America. This significant anti-vaxx nuttiness is happening everywhere.

Definitely true but this country seems to have a much higher percentage where as most other world powers have a much smaller %

 

[SJU Double Alumn]

I had Covid early April 2020, and still have the antibodies. I am not getting jabbed. And my case is far from unique. As the science evolves, so does the initial theory that antibodies only last about 60 days. 

My 16 year old son also has the antibodies and he was totally asymptotic. May have caught it from me. 

One of my doctors agrees because the natural antibodies are better than a vaccine.

And I will wait for the NIAID, FDA, and CDC to be fully backed first (Fauci, Marks and Walensky all said under oath their numbers are around 60 percent).

I do not care who gets the shot,  but mandating a shot that is still a “trial” is dangerous, especially when (again) many already have the antibodies. The VAERS database has deaths relating to the the Covid vax at 6,000 and it’s various side affects. Not to mention, I have had a very personal experience of the bad side affects of vaccines.

And both of my kids were fully vaccinated growing up. So I am not coming into this with an anti vaccine angle.

Good day. 

There is some dangerously bad information here. 
Everyone is different, but studies lean to the conclusion that generally, the vaccines give longer and stronger immunity than natural infection. This is still being studied.
The FDA fully supports the use of the vaccine. The update from emergency authorization to full authorization is a bureaucratic process that is moving along and will happen in the next two months or so.
The VAERS database is unverified and the death numbers are not attributable to the vaccine. Considering the age demographics of those who received the vaccines the first few months, the death rates are no larger than the usual population death rates.
Nearly all recent Covid hospitalizations and deaths have been unvaccinated. I understand if you had Covid and you are waiting for your antibodies to decrease before getting the vaccine, but to otherwise refuse to take a vaccine except for pre-existing medical issues is reckless and stupid.

 

[SJU Double Alumn]

I agree it is disheartening. But it is not just America. This significant anti-vaxx nuttiness is happening everywhere. 

Definitely true but this country seems to have a much higher percentage where as most other world powers have a much smaller %

From what I have seen, it varies. We are about the same as France, better than Italy and Poland, not as high as the UK, etc.

 

[beast of the east]

I work and Intensive care unit and have taken care of a multitude of patients with covid.  Most recently I’ve seen a 29 year old girl who no medical problems nor risk factors have to be buried from it.  Her lungs failed and she died.  Had another 20-something have a massive stroke due to hypercoagulation side effects of covid.  Another 30 something with a massive heart attack from it.   Risk factors don’t tell the whole tale.  

The vaccine has been given to hundreds of millions and is overwhelmingly safe. I’ve never seen a person in the icu because they got the shot, but icu’s overwhelmed by this thing.  If you don’t get vaccinated you are plain wrong that it can’t and won’t come for you because you don’t know how your body will respond.  Frankly I wish it was available to my 2 kids under 12.  My 12 year old got the vaccines. Use your brain and get the vaccine. If you don’t you’re foolish.  The risk comparison between the vaccine and covid is really no comparison.


 

You are correct when comparing the risk factors associated with a vaccine compared to the benefit.

Every prescription and non-prescription drug has adverse effects, some incredibly serious.   When they reach a certain threshold, the drug gets pulled from the market.   Certainly EVERY POSSIBLE SERIOUS AND NON-SERIOUS EFFECT gets published in package inserts that accompany every drug, and patients can discuss these risks with their physician or pharmacist.   No one advocates muting this information or not allowing individuals from discussing them on social media.   When you try to cajole people into vaccinations, and talk about shutting down social media reservations about getting vaccinated, you are actually fueling the fears of individuals hesitant to vaccinate.   

Every healthy person should get vaccinated or isolate.   If you think about it though, if the vaccine is so effective, anyone who is vaccinated should care one bit about people who aren't vaccinated.  After all we are told it's the unvaccinated that are at risk and not the vaccinated. 

 

[Moose]

The Red Storm name thread locked before a Covid based thread.
Go figure! /media/kunena/emoticons/w00t.png

 

[Eric]

Been holding off commenting on this topic but will put my 2 cents in.   Agree 1000% with mcpa.  If everyone was able to witness what happens in the hospitals due to Covid I’m so sure feelings and opinions would be changed

I also Understand people who still have antibodies holding off even though I think they should still get the vaccine anyway. 

I think this whole situation sucks because we have a great weapon which has unbelievable efficacy in defeating this and we are going backwards, not forwards.  

 

[Eric]

I had Covid in April 2020 and was hospitalized for 10 days followed by 7 days in rehab.  I got the vaccines at Belmont as soon as they were available.  

As for me, there has been too many opinions put forth as science.  Since the vaccines were largely driven by the government, maybe adverse effects should fall on the government, with limitations.  Employers, I believe, have the right to require their workers to be vaccinated.  Those who opt out, well the consequences are on them.


what rehab did you go to?