Head Coaching Changes
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MarkRedman post=428373 said:
Exactly the inverse. Nobody knew whether Howard could coach when he was hired - he was hired on the same criteria Mullin was hired at St John's. [TBH I am still not sure whether Howard can coach (though it does look that way) or whether Martelli and Eisley are doing the work there, but either way Howard gets the credit since he was smarter than Mullin about how he built his staff.]
Woodson can absolutely coach, he's a coaching lifer. What he needs are a couple of good recruiters and potentially someone who can translate his coaching for the college kids. [Comparison to Mullin is again in order, since he apparently made little effort to translate NBA principles into terms that were digestible for college kids.]
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Agreed there really is not much of a difference in terms of experience with Howard and Ewing and Mullin. People need to stop acting like there is a magic formula for how a non-college experienced coach has success. I hear this a lot. Howard hired Martelli and Ewing hired Orr. That proves X. No it doesn't. First off Ewing actually has not done anything yet in 4 years. Secondly what person did Fred Hoiberg hire at Iowa St to help him? Yet in 6 years he went to 5 straight NCAA's after Geoff McDermott ( a coach who most agree is a terrific X's and O's coach) did NOTHING in 3 years. What was the difference? You have to 100% immerse yourself. You have to buy in 100%. Coaching, recruiting everything. Your staff has to be in concert with everything you do and yes obviously your staff better be in tune with modern college basketball. Even with all of that there is no guarantee that you will succeed. Ewing is still a pending. But I like his chances more than Mullin because I think unlike Mullin he is 100% all in. He is 100% committed. But again that does not guarantee success. There is no magic formula.
Indiana is very unique. That is a big time job in a basketball crazy state. That is why I am not sure this is the right hire. In fairness I thought Archie was a terrific hire and that did not turn out great.
Moose post=428447
Howard was the same criteria as Mullin? Howard was an asst coach in the NBA for 6 years. I know it's the NBA and not college but still. No?
Indiana is very unique. That is a big time job in a basketball crazy state. That is why I am not sure this is the right hire. In fairness I thought Archie was a terrific hire and that did not turn out great.
Moose post=428447
lawmanfan post=428446 said:
Howard was the same criteria as Mullin? Howard was an asst coach in the NBA for 6 years. I know it's the NBA and not college but still. No?
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Nice to see a great guy apparently and Loughlin grad succeed, man can coach!
https://twitter.com/mattnorlander/status/1376571099648036872?s=21
https://twitter.com/mattnorlander/status/1376571099648036872?s=21
Had a different sense about Mullin in terms of know-how. His years in Golden State front office prepared him as talent evaluator of post-doctoral candidates coming in to a highly specializedaustour post=428507 said:
(five out) system, and the STJ job involved screening rookies new to big time b-ball.
In regards to Fred Hoiberg, he had Bobby Lutz and Doc Sadler, two former head coaches on his staff at Iowa State. Howard and Ewing spent time coaching in the NBA. Mullin had 0 coaching experience. Having an experienced coach on the bench is definitely a plus.fordham96 post=428459 said:
What Ewing has done in the past two years is admirable. He has gone through injuries, dismissals, and transfers and still managed to win the Big East tournament this year.
Why didn't Geoff McDermott work out at ISU? Should he have hired Bobby Lutz? Seriously Ewing's future at Georgetown is not dependent on Louis Orr. Clyde Drexler hired George Walker when he was hired at Houston. Well respected and considered a really good hire. So what? His two years were terrible.
But the flip is true. Roy Williams has former FSU coach Steve Robinson on his staff. Buzz Williams had for years former DePaul coach Jerry Wainright on his staff. And neither Roy nor Buzz were NBA coaches with little college experience. Whatever makes them comfortable.
Here is where I will agree with specifically on Mulliin. To hire two guys with little to no college recruiting/coaching experience and then combine that with almost NO EFFORT yourself is an absolute recipe for DISASTER. That is why staff is important. The idea though that there is some magic bullet guy that Woodson needs to hire and if not then he is doomed is nonsense.
panther2 post=428516
In regards to Fred Hoiberg, he had Bobby Lutz and Doc Sadler, two former head coaches on his staff at Iowa State. Howard and Ewing spent time coaching in the NBA. Mullin had 0 coaching experience. Having an experienced coach on the bench is definitely a plus.
What Ewing has done in the past two years is admirable. He has gone through injuries, dismissals, and transfers and still managed to win the Big East tournament this year.
But the flip is true. Roy Williams has former FSU coach Steve Robinson on his staff. Buzz Williams had for years former DePaul coach Jerry Wainright on his staff. And neither Roy nor Buzz were NBA coaches with little college experience. Whatever makes them comfortable.
Here is where I will agree with specifically on Mulliin. To hire two guys with little to no college recruiting/coaching experience and then combine that with almost NO EFFORT yourself is an absolute recipe for DISASTER. That is why staff is important. The idea though that there is some magic bullet guy that Woodson needs to hire and if not then he is doomed is nonsense.
panther2 post=428516
In regards to Fred Hoiberg, he had Bobby Lutz and Doc Sadler, two former head coaches on his staff at Iowa State. Howard and Ewing spent time coaching in the NBA. Mullin had 0 coaching experience. Having an experienced coach on the bench is definitely a plus.
What Ewing has done in the past two years is admirable. He has gone through injuries, dismissals, and transfers and still managed to win the Big East tournament this year.
Who's "Geoff McDermott?" Never heard of that guy.
Bottom line is that to succeed as a college coach you need a fair combination of (1) coaching chops; (2) recruiting ability; (3) ability to run a college basketball program (i.e. manage and develop the kids); and (4) effort.
Nobody is disputing that the fourth one is essential. Just about everyone is saying that if you hire a guy who is missing one or more of the first three, then that guy is not likely to succeed unless he fills in the blanks via staff hires.
When you hire a first-time coach, you are buying unknowns in multiple categories, so you feel better about the hire if it comes with some knowns on the staff.
Woodson is an interesting hire because there's no doubt about his coaching chops - they just aren't at the college level is all, which raises the question about what his staff should look like to plug the other potential - POTENTIAL - holes. Similar to when Mullin or Howard or Ewing or Drexler were hired - for them the assumption was that the recruiting would be fine (again, with effort being a given), but with their coaching chops and ability to run a college program unknown, it raised scrutiny on their staff hires to plug those POTENTIAL holes.
Sometimes it turns out that the potential holes aren't holes at all (Howard, perhaps); sometimes they're there but they get fixed with experience (Ewing, perhaps); and sometimes they are there and they don't get fixed at all (Drexler, Mullin) or are compounded by a lack of effort (Mullin).
And it isn't an argument, it's just a discussion.
Bottom line is that to succeed as a college coach you need a fair combination of (1) coaching chops; (2) recruiting ability; (3) ability to run a college basketball program (i.e. manage and develop the kids); and (4) effort.
Nobody is disputing that the fourth one is essential. Just about everyone is saying that if you hire a guy who is missing one or more of the first three, then that guy is not likely to succeed unless he fills in the blanks via staff hires.
When you hire a first-time coach, you are buying unknowns in multiple categories, so you feel better about the hire if it comes with some knowns on the staff.
Woodson is an interesting hire because there's no doubt about his coaching chops - they just aren't at the college level is all, which raises the question about what his staff should look like to plug the other potential - POTENTIAL - holes. Similar to when Mullin or Howard or Ewing or Drexler were hired - for them the assumption was that the recruiting would be fine (again, with effort being a given), but with their coaching chops and ability to run a college program unknown, it raised scrutiny on their staff hires to plug those POTENTIAL holes.
Sometimes it turns out that the potential holes aren't holes at all (Howard, perhaps); sometimes they're there but they get fixed with experience (Ewing, perhaps); and sometimes they are there and they don't get fixed at all (Drexler, Mullin) or are compounded by a lack of effort (Mullin).
And it isn't an argument, it's just a discussion.
i've got two more coaching requirement for the list:
The coach has to be able to smooze, the AD, deans and presidents etc., parents, AAU coaches, high school coaches and alumni. If the coach does not nurture those relationships, he's done. Lavin better at sm'oozing than most of all SJU's recent coaches.
Media presence. In a city like New York, being able to work with/for the media is huge.
The coach has to be able to smooze, the AD, deans and presidents etc., parents, AAU coaches, high school coaches and alumni. If the coach does not nurture those relationships, he's done. Lavin better at sm'oozing than most of all SJU's recent coaches.
Media presence. In a city like New York, being able to work with/for the media is huge.
One coach who won't be going anywhere soon is Brooklyn's own and Bishop Loughlin Grad Mike Boynton, who just signed a 7 year contract extension for 3 million a year.
When he took over Oklahoma State's program in 2017, he had no head coaching experience. The program was also being investigated by the FBI and the NCAA. Over the past four years, he has not just stabilized the program but been competitive in the Big Xll, and won an NCAA tourney game this year.
Much respect for what this young man has accomplished in his career so far.
When he took over Oklahoma State's program in 2017, he had no head coaching experience. The program was also being investigated by the FBI and the NCAA. Over the past four years, he has not just stabilized the program but been competitive in the Big Xll, and won an NCAA tourney game this year.
Much respect for what this young man has accomplished in his career so far.
panther2 post=428623 said:
Panther2 wrote:
One coach who won't be going anywhere soon is Brooklyn's own and Bishop Loughlin Grad Mike Boynton, who just signed a 7 year contract extension for 3 million a year.
When he took over Oklahoma State's program in 2017, he had no head coaching experience. The program was also being investigated by the FBI and the NCAA. Over the past four years, he has not just stabilized the program but been competitive in the Big Xll, and won an NCAA tourney game this year.
Much respect for what this young man has accomplished in his career so far.
Definitely a good coach.
Being a Queens boy who attended HS in Manhattan and college in Queens I never spent much time in Brooklyn; still don't know the neighborhoods there other than to know it has really boomed over the past few decades.
I am about to learn as my youngest daughter and her fiancee are moving to Prospect Heights neighborhood on a street coincidentally named Sterling Place at the end of April!
One coach who won't be going anywhere soon is Brooklyn's own and Bishop Loughlin Grad Mike Boynton, who just signed a 7 year contract extension for 3 million a year.
When he took over Oklahoma State's program in 2017, he had no head coaching experience. The program was also being investigated by the FBI and the NCAA. Over the past four years, he has not just stabilized the program but been competitive in the Big Xll, and won an NCAA tourney game this year.
Much respect for what this young man has accomplished in his career so far.
Definitely a good coach.
Being a Queens boy who attended HS in Manhattan and college in Queens I never spent much time in Brooklyn; still don't know the neighborhoods there other than to know it has really boomed over the past few decades.
I am about to learn as my youngest daughter and her fiancee are moving to Prospect Heights neighborhood on a street coincidentally named Sterling Place at the end of April!