Former staff debate (from fall visit thread)

[quote="Beast of the East" post=358496]I realize of course that some folks do not have the capacity to have a positive outlook on what former coaches brought to the table - even though all have failed, and none moved on to bigger and brighter things as a result of this job.

I supported Mullin, Lavin, Roberts (even though I had little faith), Jarvis, Fraschilla and Mahoney. That's very different from blindly advocating for them. I have not posted a single sentence advocating for their retention. Big difference between being blind and being balanced.

Each coach has some positive marks in their tenure. I believe Mahoney may have won BE coach of the year, and without question reeled in the most heralded freshman in our history who along with Zendon, got us on the cover of SI (the only time for SJU recruiting).

Fran recruited. Jarvis restored order (at least early on) and could certainly coach. Norm couldn't coach but mopped up a scandal laden program. Lavin immediately assembled talent when many thought we were done as a BE program, and got us to 2 NCAA bids. Mullin brought more interest from NYC than any coach since Looie, got us a bid, and in his final season had us ranked at one point and also attracted the best attendance in 28 years.

All unfortunately did not deserve to be retained.

I know CMA is doing all the right things. I can tell you that on a recent trip to Columbia MO to visit a client, the talk turned to basketball since they knew I'm a big SJU fan. In a conversation with about a dozen guys - two Arkansas residents and fans, and 10 Mizzou fans, not a single one was positive about CMA. Like my view of our former coaches though, even mentioned positive aspects of his ability.

This is a worthless post. Negativity is endemic. I don't see how it makes those who post that way feel better about themselves, except in the "I know more than anyone else" category.

I'd prefer to follow the lead of two of our most highly respected posters, Fuchsia and Redmannorth.[/quote]

You could have just quoted my post. But alas
 
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I too think Mulzoff never won the big one despite having significant talent in Davis, Schaeffer, Searcy etc.
But I prefer to look at the future and I think Louie has a really good one on Glen Williams and is closing in on Top 50 George Johnson.
 
Granted criticisms of former staff get repetitive, but imo this is a message board, not a cathedral. Easy to skip posts not to our liking.
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=358506]Granted criticisms of former staff get repetitive, but imo this is a message board, not a cathedral. Easy to skip posts not to our liking.[/quote]

It IS a message board, and can respond to anything so long as we try to avoid getting personal.
 
Any of our coaches, other than Jarvis, responsible for SJU having to forfeit games due to NCAA violations?
 
We we're fortunate to land CMA. He's as good a coach we could expect to get. Good experience and background and work ethic. However. I don't believe St John's is a destination job any longer. We are a layover. And he will likely be gone in 3-4 yrs. We can only hope his efforts in recruiting and style of play will be such that we can regain a foothold on local recruits after he moves on.
 
[quote="Redzone" post=358515]We we're fortunate to land CMA. He's as good a coach we could expect to get. Good experience and background and work ethic. However. I don't believe St John's is a destination job any longer. We are a layover. And he will likely be gone in 3-4 yrs. We can only hope his efforts in recruiting and style of play will be such that we can regain a foothold on local recruits after he moves on.[/quote]

If you are correct, and CMA leaves after some success here, I would hope that we would be in a position to promote one of the assistants. That has worked remarkably well for Xavier and Butler. Easier transition and less expensive.
 
[quote="Redzone" post=358515]We we're fortunate to land CMA. He's as good a coach we could expect to get. Good experience and background and work ethic. However. I don't believe St John's is a destination job any longer. We are a layover. And he will likely be gone in 3-4 yrs. We can only hope his efforts in recruiting and style of play will be such that we can regain a foothold on local recruits after he moves on.[/quote]

Anything is possible but I highly doubt it. If things go well in 3-4 years we will be a good team again and if we can crack the top 25 CMA will be king of NY. The fans will love him like they loved Louie. There is no football at SJU and he will be king on campus. He would prove to Arkansas and every other school that they were wrong in letting him go and the others for not grabbing him. I agree that we are not a destination job but I am really hoping and optimistic that we are CMAs final destination.
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=358506]Granted criticisms of former staff get repetitive, but imo this is a message board, not a cathedral. Easy to skip posts not to our liking.[/quote]

People like trying to dictate to others what's allowed and what isn't. As paultz said, skip a post if you don't like it, no one puts a gun to your head, if you choose to read and don't like it, then that's on you.

I stopped bashing chris, but everyone that still does, well he deserves it.
Why take the job if he didn't want it? He already had millions. So he deserves it all.
 
[quote="redmannorth" post=358521][quote="Redzone" post=358515]We we're fortunate to land CMA. He's as good a coach we could expect to get. Good experience and background and work ethic. However. I don't believe St John's is a destination job any longer. We are a layover. And he will likely be gone in 3-4 yrs. We can only hope his efforts in recruiting and style of play will be such that we can regain a foothold on local recruits after he moves on.[/quote]

Anything is possible but I highly doubt it. If things go well in 3-4 years we will be a good team again and if we can crack the top 25 CMA will be king of NY. The fans will love him like they loved Louie. There is no football at SJU and he will be king on campus. He would prove to Arkansas and every other school that they were wrong in letting him go and the others for not grabbing him. I agree that we are not a destination job but I am really hoping and optimistic that we are CMAs final destination.[/quote]

Agree here. Anderson is 59 and if he builds something good here, I think this is going to be his last head coaching job. He has a unique situation at SJU where b-ball is king and people will appreciate his work if SJU is winning. He got here at a good time as well, with a smart and supportive AD in place who will work with him. I don’t see Anderson being a Journeyman by choice. I think he can carve a niche and at his age we will likely get a good long run out of him.
 
I don't think he leaves for another school. I think we lose him to retirement, but not for at least seven years.

I assume the plan is for Cleveland to take over. That clock starts over every time he heads to a new school. I believe he's here until this ship can essentially run itself, and until his wife tells him to retire and enjoy the golden years with her.
 
Stj in the sweet sixteen could be the ultimate destination school for a bb coach, particularly with a solid recruiting base and balanced classes.
 
[quote="L J S A" post=358526]I don't think he leaves for another school. I think we lose him to retirement, but not for at least seven years.

I assume the plan is for Cleveland to take over. That clock starts over every time he heads to a new school. I believe he's here until this ship can essentially run itself, and until his wife tells him to retire and enjoy the golden years with her.[/quote]

Or he could be like Tom Brady and tell her babe I'm having way to much fun to retire.
 
[quote="L J S A" post=358526]I don't think he leaves for another school. I think we lose him to retirement, but not for at least seven years.

I assume the plan is for Cleveland to take over. That clock starts over every time he heads to a new school. I believe he's here until this ship can essentially run itself, and until his wife tells him to retire and enjoy the golden years with her.[/quote]

I wouldn't assume that takeover plan.
 
I am certainly not one to talk but it is funny to me that before Anderson has coached a game there is speculation about players transferring, him moving on or retiring and where his successor might come from. Is it time for the season to start or what?
 
Let's hope CMA does here what the great Al McGuire did at Marquette; win a national championship and then retire. That's not asking for too much.
 
[quote="Monte" post=358546]Let's hope CMA does here what the great Al McGuire did at Marquette; win a national championship and then retire. That's not asking for too much.[/quote]

Piece of cake Mark :)
 
Beast wrote:
"I know CMA is doing all the right things. I can tell you that on a recent trip to Columbia MO to visit a client, the talk turned to basketball since they knew I'm a big SJU fan. In a conversation with about a dozen guys - two Arkansas residents and fans, and 10 Mizzou fans, not a single one was positive about CMA. Like my view of our former coaches though, even mentioned positive aspects of his ability."

Are you saying that everyone mentioned positive things about Mike but 12 fans were overall being negative about CMA??? I'm not sure this type of review screams optimism and seems to accentuate a pessimistic outlook because of who we hired.
Missouri hired Frank Haith after CMA. We all know how that ended. Were the Tiger fans positive about him?
Arkansas went to 5 post season appearances in CMA's final 6 years. After the Chris Mullin disaster every Redman fan has a right to be negative. Those Tiger and Razorback fans can kiss CMA's ass as far as I'm concerned.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=358574]Beast wrote:
"I know CMA is doing all the right things. I can tell you that on a recent trip to Columbia MO to visit a client, the talk turned to basketball since they knew I'm a big SJU fan. In a conversation with about a dozen guys - two Arkansas residents and fans, and 10 Mizzou fans, not a single one was positive about CMA. Like my view of our former coaches though, even mentioned positive aspects of his ability."

Are you saying that everyone mentioned positive things about Mike but 12 fans were overall being negative about CMA??? I'm not sure this type of review screams optimism and seems to accentuate a pessimistic outlook because of who we hired.
Missouri hired Frank Haith after CMA. We all know how that ended. Were the Tiger fans positive about him?
Arkansas went to 5 post season appearances in CMA's final 6 years. After the Chris Mullin disaster every Redman fan has a right to be negative. Those Tiger and Razorback fans can kiss CMA's ass as far as I'm concerned.[/quote]

A little over the top on your part. What I am saying is that neither fan base feels in the aggregate that they lost a great coach.

I do think given where we are that he is a great fit for us, who along with Mike Cragg, is a seasoned professional who both are giving us what we would expect from two guys who have been around this a long time, have winning experience from big time programs, and we will not deal with any of the speculative nonsense about effort, knowledge, coaching ability. Both are steady hands at the wheel, and I think if we have reasonable expectations of being consistently competitive during his tenure, we will be just fine. Beyond a reasonable expectation of making the tournament maybe 2-3 times in 6 years (this year likely a wash), I think is within reach. A high expectation beyond that is a little crazy. I would put my over an under at 2 NCAA bids over the next 6 years. 1 would be a disappointment, 3+ would be phenomenal.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=358605][quote="Class of 72" post=358574]Beast wrote:
"I know CMA is doing all the right things. I can tell you that on a recent trip to Columbia MO to visit a client, the talk turned to basketball since they knew I'm a big SJU fan. In a conversation with about a dozen guys - two Arkansas residents and fans, and 10 Mizzou fans, not a single one was positive about CMA. Like my view of our former coaches though, even mentioned positive aspects of his ability."

Are you saying that everyone mentioned positive things about Mike but 12 fans were overall being negative about CMA??? I'm not sure this type of review screams optimism and seems to accentuate a pessimistic outlook because of who we hired.
Missouri hired Frank Haith after CMA. We all know how that ended. Were the Tiger fans positive about him?
Arkansas went to 5 post season appearances in CMA's final 6 years. After the Chris Mullin disaster every Redman fan has a right to be negative. Those Tiger and Razorback fans can kiss CMA's ass as far as I'm concerned.[/quote]

A little over the top on your part. What I am saying is that neither fan base feels in the aggregate that they lost a great coach.

I do think given where we are that he is a great fit for us, who along with Mike Cragg, is a seasoned professional who both are giving us what we would expect from two guys who have been around this a long time, have winning experience from big time programs, and we will not deal with any of the speculative nonsense about effort, knowledge, coaching ability. Both are steady hands at the wheel, and I think if we have reasonable expectations of being consistently competitive during his tenure, we will be just fine. Beyond a reasonable expectation of making the tournament maybe 2-3 times in 6 years (this year likely a wash), I think is within reach. A high expectation beyond that is a little crazy. I would put my over an under at 2 NCAA bids over the next 6 years. 1 would be a disappointment, 3+ would be phenomenal.[/quote]

I'm trying to be optimistic about the current staff. Stating that 12 fans in your retrospective focus group were basically negative is not helpful to our particular fan base.
That neither coach were great is an understatement. Coach Mike Anderson was a very successful and established college coach. His record speaks for itself. We were just lucky he was let go while we were looking (in all the wrong places as usual) for a replacement for arguably the worst hire after Norm Roberts in St. John's basketball history.
If CMA made post season appearances 5 of the last 6 years at Arkansas why would we fans be crazy to hope for the same after this coming season.?????? That would imply Chris Mullin left St. John's in a major shit hole after producing next to zero in program growth.
I expect the Big East to be a 4 or 5 team NCAA post season conference every year with another 2 or 3 going to the NIT.
Here's my prediction: we will go to post season every year CMA is coach with the possible exception of this season. It would not surprise me that if Steere. Sears, Heron, Figueroa and Dunn perform at 100 % of their abilities that we get an NIT bid.
My advice to fellow fans is to look at the combined experience of this staff and be thankful we didn't end up with an average mid major coach doomed to fail at St. John's.
 
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