Former staff debate (from fall visit thread)

[quote="L J S A" post=358203][quote="Las Vegan" post=358198]Does anyone have an educated guess as to how much the school paid Mullin and his four assistants, which includes Rohrssen, over the four years they were employed?
Also, how much was Mullin's buyout?[/quote]

More than $15 million would be my guess for everyone.[/quote]

That sounds about right and it is the biggest $15 million bust in St. John's basketball.
We broke every conceivable rule in the hiring and selection process.
A coaching staff with zero experience.
A basketball legend that could never remotely approach his greatness as a player while training to be a coach under the tutelage of a 25 year old who also never coached. It goes on and on.........

As for CMA he deserves every bit of opportunity to prove he can recruit. As for 40 minutes of hell, I'm not sure that he used it that often after Nolan Richardson and you need the right players. I am optimistic that he will be heads and shoulders better than the previous staff.
 
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[quote="Monte" post=358254][quote="Logen" post=358251][quote="Monte" post=358241]You know who else never had a losing record(in 13 seasons) when he arrived here with a reputation as a stand up guy, a hard worker and a winner? Mike Jarvis, that's who. I like what I see so far, but I liked what I saw with every single coach(since Louie) when they first arrived, other than Norm. I believed in every single coach, except Norm.. In the words of Pete Townshend, I 'won't get fooled again'.[/quote]

Glass half full or half empty, to each their own; your position is certainly understandable; but your point is what?
Maybe there should be a moratorium on positive posts about Anderson until, well, when? What is enough time to pass before we comment on what we see or hear just because it happens to be positive and we’ve (you’ve) been fooled before? We all have all been burned by people who seemed one thing and turn out to be another, that’s life, it is up to each to decide whether those experiences jade one to all people as they move forward.
I agree completely that Anderson needs to prove himself over time at SJU, any person in any new job has to do that before you can judge a successful hire or not. However, dealing with each situation as unique with a clean slate and commenting on what you see and hear seems reasonable; especially on a medium whose sole purpose is discussion.[/quote]

Where did I even imply that commenting on what you see and hear is unreasonable? Comment away! Most of what happens on this site(and other sports sites) is bar room banter anyway, with the exception of information provided by a handful of posters with first or (reliable) second hand knowledge of what’s going on with the program. As for my post/point, I wouldn’t overanalyze it. It was just comment. Same as I would make if I was in a bar room conversation about the new staff.[/quote]


Well, your comment about Jarvis and Pete Townsend certainly seemed to challenge the positive posts about Anderson. Not sure how else it could’ve been interpreted. And if we were talking in a bar I would ask you the same question I asked, as opposed to posting would you rather in a bar I not mention anything positive about Anderson? As for reading too much into your comment, I think I pretty much took it at face value. Frankly, you gave a lawyers answer to a pretty direct question.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=358260][quote="L J S A" post=358203][quote="Las Vegan" post=358198]Does anyone have an educated guess as to how much the school paid Mullin and his four assistants, which includes Rohrssen, over the four years they were employed?
Also, how much was Mullin's buyout?[/quote]

More than $15 million would be my guess for everyone.[/quote]

That sounds about right and it is the biggest $15 million bust in St. John's basketball.
We broke every conceivable rule in the hiring and selection process.
A coaching staff with zero experience.
A basketball legend that could never remotely approach his greatness as a player while training to be a coach under the tutelage of a 25 year old who also never coached. It goes on and on.........

As for CMA he deserves every bit of opportunity to prove he can recruit. As for 40 minutes of hell, I'm not sure that he used it that often after Nolan Richardson and you need the right players. I am optimistic that he will be heads and shoulders better than the previous staff.[/quote] 40 minutes of hell shouldn’t be too hard. That’s already the upper level at carnesseca so now just extend it to the court
 
Exactly. Most St. John's games have already been 40 minutes of hell.....for the fans.
 
At this point in time , does it matter to anyone excepting Critics to ask for a Accounting of what Mullin was paid and what was paid his Coaches ? Other than to again beat a subject that we all want to move on from ... One of the biggest Mistakes , for whatever the reasons , was the hiring and firing of Barry Rohressen . Slice was intended to be the main Recruiter with Matt A second in command and charged with different assignments than Slice . It didn’t work out and it adversely impacted Recruiting for nearly all of Mullin’s tenure ., Slice wasn’t replaced , due largely to his large buyout and Matt was elevated to , essentially the 1 Full time Recruiter . Richmond upgraded to full time Assistant . And , with no recruiting experience . To be fair to Mitch , which didn’t happen much , he should not have been criticized for not recruiting . It was never his assignment . St Jean was the x’s and o’s Guru and I think by the end of last season has rightfully earned some respect from some of the posters on here. Chris , as head Coach , seemed distracted by personal issues and without Rohrseen , we we’re short Manpower on the Recruiting front . Coach Anderson has a larger staff , though maybe not as expensive with several of the Assistants having significant Recruiting experience , which is all good . And , Anderson seems willing and able to not only to over see Recruiting but , gets involved on the front line . We all agree it’s been good effort all the way around . Hopefully , will pay dividends and success in the Win and Loss column over time . As many agree, Coach Anderson gets a pass on this Year’s results , even with 2 significant players returning .
 
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[quote="mjmaherjr" post=358271][quote="Class of 72" post=358260][quote="L J S A" post=358203][quote="Las Vegan" post=358198]Does anyone have an educated guess as to how much the school paid Mullin and his four assistants, which includes Rohrssen, over the four years they were employed?
Also, how much was Mullin's buyout?[/quote]

More than $15 million would be my guess for everyone.[/quote]

That sounds about right and it is the biggest $15 million bust in St. John's basketball.
We broke every conceivable rule in the hiring and selection process.
A coaching staff with zero experience.
A basketball legend that could never remotely approach his greatness as a player while training to be a coach under the tutelage of a 25 year old who also never coached. It goes on and on.........

As for CMA he deserves every bit of opportunity to prove he can recruit. As for 40 minutes of hell, I'm not sure that he used it that often after Nolan Richardson and you need the right players. I am optimistic that he will be heads and shoulders better than the previous staff.[/quote] 40 minutes of hell shouldn’t be too hard. That’s already the upper level at carnesseca so now just extend it to the court[/quote]

The discomfort in the upper deck could be somewhat mitigated by making it clothing optional seating.
 
[quote="Las Vegan" post=358286][quote="mjmaherjr" post=358271][quote="Class of 72" post=358260][quote="L J S A" post=358203][quote="Las Vegan" post=358198]Does anyone have an educated guess as to how much the school paid Mullin and his four assistants, which includes Rohrssen, over the four years they were employed?
Also, how much was Mullin's buyout?[/quote]

More than $15 million would be my guess for everyone.[/quote]

That sounds about right and it is the biggest $15 million bust in St. John's basketball.
We broke every conceivable rule in the hiring and selection process.
A coaching staff with zero experience.
A basketball legend that could never remotely approach his greatness as a player while training to be a coach under the tutelage of a 25 year old who also never coached. It goes on and on.........

As for CMA he deserves every bit of opportunity to prove he can recruit. As for 40 minutes of hell, I'm not sure that he used it that often after Nolan Richardson and you need the right players. I am optimistic that he will be heads and shoulders better than the previous staff.[/quote] 40 minutes of hell shouldn’t be too hard. That’s already the upper level at carnesseca so now just extend it to the court[/quote]

The discomfort in the upper deck could be somewhat mitigated by making it clothing optional seating.[/quote]you just named the one thing that is definitely worse than me seeing someone sit on the scorer’s table :)
 
Mullin should have cut his own pay and used the funds to hire Slice's replacement.
 
[quote="Knight" post=358350]Mullin should have cut his own pay and used the funds to hire Slice's replacement.[/quote]

Should have but fought for every dollar on the way out. Buyer beware.
 
[quote="MCNPA" post=358351][quote="Knight" post=358350]Mullin should have cut his own pay and used the funds to hire Slice's replacement.[/quote]

Should have but fought for every dollar on the way out. Buyer beware.[/quote]

If we were a state school, the salaries and buyouts would be public information.
 
When you have no future, you keep talking about the past.

The past is over. No shitting on Mahoney, Fran, Jarvis, Roberts, Lavin, or Mullin will do one bit of good. Hatred is the vessel that corrodes from within.

CMA is here. We have a future. No need to revisit the past, where hindsight is supposed to be 20-20, but negativity causes poor optics.
 
When you have no future, you keep talking about the past.

The past is over. No shitting on Mahoney, Fran, Jarvis, Roberts, Lavin, or Mullin will do one bit of good. Hatred is the vessel that corrodes from within.

CMA is here. We have a future. No need to revisit the past, where hindsight is supposed to be 20-20, but negativity causes poor optics.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=358445]When you have no future, you keep talking about the past.

The past is over. No shitting on Mahoney, Fran, Jarvis, Roberts, Lavin, or Mullin will do one bit of good. Hatred is the vessel that corrodes from within.

CMA is here. We have a future. No need to revisit the past, where hindsight is supposed to be 20-20, but negativity causes poor optics.[/quote]

I agree that the future looks the best it's looked since Lavin's first year. We appear to have a solid AD and coaching staff in place, and good reason to be optimistic. I asked a question re the Mullin buyout. I like to know and I'm sure many others would like to know.
Looking back can be useful in avoiding making the same mistakes. It was only a few months ago that we had a coaching search that, along with UCLA's, was a national punchline. We were close to having the Loyola coach and possibly losing Mike Cragg, if that had played out differently.
Yes, some still haven't let their anger toward the last staff go, but this is a result of so many bad decisions, incompetence and lack of accountability over the past 25 years. The negative stuff will be gone once the season starts and we see the kind of basketball program Mike Anderson is constructing.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=358445]When you have no future, you keep talking about the past.

The past is over. No shitting on Mahoney, Fran, Jarvis, Roberts, Lavin, or Mullin will do one bit of good. Hatred is the vessel that corrodes from within.

CMA is here. We have a future. No need to revisit the past, where hindsight is supposed to be 20-20, but negativity causes poor optics.[/quote]

We have been revisiting the past on this Forum since it was founded. There is no hatred in observing past history as I think we need to learn from past decisions as we do with life in general. We really don't know what CMA will bring but we better never forget how we got here.

"'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.' (George Santayana-1905). In a 1948 speech to the House of Commons, Winston Churchill changed the quote slightly when he said (paraphrased), 'Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it.'"
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=358471][quote="Beast of the East" post=358445]When you have no future, you keep talking about the past.

The past is over. No shitting on Mahoney, Fran, Jarvis, Roberts, Lavin, or Mullin will do one bit of good. Hatred is the vessel that corrodes from within.

CMA is here. We have a future. No need to revisit the past, where hindsight is supposed to be 20-20, but negativity causes poor optics.[/quote]

We have been revisiting the past on this Forum since it was founded. There is no hatred in observing past history as I think we need to learn from past decisions as we do with life in general. We really don't know what CMA will bring but we better never forget how we got here.

"'Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.' (George Santayana-1905). In a 1948 speech to the House of Commons, Winston Churchill changed the quote slightly when he said (paraphrased), 'Those who fail to learn from history are condemned to repeat it.'"[/quote]

You are correct that we constantly revisit the past and it is disgusting. And we don’t have to learn anything as we don’t hire the coaches the AD does. Our opinion, our input is worthless to the AD when the hires were made.
What is there to learn , don’t hire coaches with a loosing record,like Mahoney and Norm , who are both wonderful people ? Don’t hire coaches who are looking to secure their useless kids future , Jarvis ? Don’t hire coaches who don’t recruit hard and give up , Lavin ? Don’t get passed at your winning coach who is a great recruiter if he looks for a bigger job ? Don’t hire someone you can’t fire or who doesn’t need the job or who has zero, i repeat zero experience as a coach, has zero local connections, has zero west coast high school connections ? Come on 72 half of this board could have made better hires for SJU. There is nothing for us to learn because as I said our opinions do not matter when it comes time to hire.
However, it is patently obvious to me that this hire is different from every other hire that SJU has made since Louie retired. We hired a real professional , a guy who wants to be nothing other then a major college bball coach. A guy with a fantastic winning record, a guy who has surrounded himself with other professional coaches all of whom aspire to be head coaches, not just a recruiter , or a defensive coach or a coach that coaches but does not recruit. We saw how he rerecruited the entire team after he was hired and got rid of the two troublemakers in Keita and Wright. We saw how he went out and plugged the necessary holes in bringing in 2 pgs , a power forward , a small forward and a transfer who hopefully will be eligible immédiately. We saw the summer workouts , we see the 5 am workouts , we see him lecturing at local coaching clinics.
When was the last time you saw all of this plus 2 very good recruits at the positions we desperately need 7 weeks prior to the signing period ? The answer is never or at least not in my 38 past years of being a die hard fan of the program. We have seen glimpses and specks here and there but nothing comparable to the complete package which we are seeing.
So to come on the site daily and to bitch and moan about Chris and Mitch etc is beyond monotonous in my opinion. But hey it’s a free world or at least here in Canada and the US and we are all entitled to do what we wish. On a personal note i prefer to enjoy this ride and try not to focus on the past.
 
If I had to listen to people blindly defend the last staff and downright attack those who spoke of the real truth; you can bet your you know what I’m going to continue to talk about the last staff until I’m content.
 
North, I too prefer to enjoy the current ride in the new staff's bus. Unfortunately someone changed this topic to "Former Staff Debate" and you know that I am a masterdebater. :p
 
I don't know, I think sometimes we tend to go overboard criticizing coaches after they're gone. They all had their faults, but I enjoyed some very thrilling moments with each of Fran, Jarvis & Lavin - Lavin, in particular, brought the program back from the dead even though it didn't last.
Mullin turned out to be a mistake for both the program and Chris, but it's not like he brought the program down - there were lots of casual fans who hadn't followed the program in several years who were paying attention last year. Time to move on and focus on the positive, which is right there for all to see. Just my 2 cents and I know many will disagree, which is fine.
 
Chalk it up to poor impulse control. With multiple posters quoting Satayana as paraphrased by Churchill, the news of the day draws me to a Clemenceau quote, also paraphrased by Churchill.

“If you are 20 and not a socialist, you have no heart. If you are 40 and still a socialist, you have no brain.”
 
I realize of course that some folks do not have the capacity to have a positive outlook on what former coaches brought to the table - even though all have failed, and none moved on to bigger and brighter things as a result of this job.

I supported Mullin, Lavin, Roberts (even though I had little faith), Jarvis, Fraschilla and Mahoney. That's very different from blindly advocating for them. I have not posted a single sentence advocating for their retention. Big difference between being blind and being balanced.

Each coach has some positive marks in their tenure. I believe Mahoney may have won BE coach of the year, and without question reeled in the most heralded freshman in our history who along with Zendon, got us on the cover of SI (the only time for SJU recruiting).

Fran recruited. Jarvis restored order (at least early on) and could certainly coach. Norm couldn't coach but mopped up a scandal laden program. Lavin immediately assembled talent when many thought we were done as a BE program, and got us to 2 NCAA bids. Mullin brought more interest from NYC than any coach since Looie, got us a bid, and in his final season had us ranked at one point and also attracted the best attendance in 28 years.

All unfortunately did not deserve to be retained.

I know CMA is doing all the right things. I can tell you that on a recent trip to Columbia MO to visit a client, the talk turned to basketball since they knew I'm a big SJU fan. In a conversation with about a dozen guys - two Arkansas residents and fans, and 10 Mizzou fans, not a single one was positive about CMA. Like my view of our former coaches though, even mentioned positive aspects of his ability.

This is a worthless post. Negativity is endemic. I don't see how it makes those who post that way feel better about themselves, except in the "I know more than anyone else" category.

I'd prefer to follow the lead of two of our most highly respected posters, Fuchsia and Redmannorth.
 
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