Fire Mullin!
- Thread starter ManhattAn1
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Think many are underestimating the appeal of the St Johns job.
I suspect quality mid major guys like Marshall, Miller and their agents are keeping the STJ job on their radar, even if it is not their 1st choice. And the next tier of coaching prospects like Hurley and others would all kill for the job.
Class of 72
Active member
Ideal coach for Duke, UNC or Kentucky who will open their checkbook. St. John's will never, ever pay $3 million. There are plenty of excellent coaches now earning under $2 million. All they need is a top notch recruiter for a damaged brand like St. John's. Slice's issue likely won't be resolved by next April so he could just resume his job under the next coach.
B) 
Agree completely. The fact that we have made some poor coaching hires(not putting CM in that category just yet) does not mean that this program is doomed for all eternity . It can be resurrected, and it will be resurrected. And hopefully in my lifetime. If CM is not the one to do it, someone else will. Bank on it!
Spocky Ramone
Well-known member
At least we'll see better defense
Spocky Ramone
Well-known member
Is it possible that some are overestimating the appeal of Utopia (and Union)?
No. If Lavin, who was a mediocre coach and who didn't work, got us 2 NCAA tourney bids in 5 years, imagine what a real HC could do? The foundation is here for a good HC to resurrect the program. Still hoping CM is that guy, but if he is not there will be someone else. Odds are in our favor that the next hire will be the right one.
we are sju
Active member
1985 was 31 years ago. At this point any resurrection would be more amazing than the original resurrection.
What was 1985? I'm talking about us being a consistant tourney team. Not all that hard for the right head coach. Anyone who doesnt think it's possible and still follows this team is either willing to accept failure, or should go follow another team. But sitting around bitchin and moanin about how we'll never be relevant again makes some of you guys/girls sound like a bunch of whiny ass pussies. And I'd much rather be a cockeyed optimist, than a whiny ass pussy any day of the week.
Optimistic like this?
"I am really starting to question whether or not Chris is up to the task of turning around our program, and/or whether his heart is really in to it .... my gut is starting to tell me the same things it told me about BM, Norm and SL .... If Chris were to decide to leave after this year I'd be fine with it,"
On Sunday I watched SJU lose, then wrote 2000 words about it, then watched the Lions lose on their way to missing the playoffs for the millionth straight year, and then I threw in a couple of bets on the mules running around the Aqueduct inner track. That's the trifecta of suck and futility right there. I'm not optimistic about anything much less any of that and am such a cynic that I don't even trust my own skepticism anymore. Does that make me a pussy? Or is it the fact that I wear women's underwear?
beast of the east
Active member
How about this for this topic?
Get used to the idea that the team will suck and be lucky to win 12 games at best. A few players might improve, and hopefully Chris will become a better coach. Come back next year with a few more players, and let's see how he does. As much as I hated Roberts as a coach I fought with a lot of posters at the end of his last season because I said I was rooting for him to win because that's what an SJU fan does. For my money, I'd be happy for him to find 5 guys willing to bust it on defense, and worry about the rest later.
Get used to the idea that the team will suck and be lucky to win 12 games at best. A few players might improve, and hopefully Chris will become a better coach. Come back next year with a few more players, and let's see how he does. As much as I hated Roberts as a coach I fought with a lot of posters at the end of his last season because I said I was rooting for him to win because that's what an SJU fan does. For my money, I'd be happy for him to find 5 guys willing to bust it on defense, and worry about the rest later.
L J S A
Well-known member
I'd love for Marshall to be interested in St. John's . . . but he's one of the best basketball coaches in the world and he will get calls from both Duke and UNC when the time comes. I can also see him being very interested in Virginia if Tony Bennett were to leave for some reason.
Before Wichita, he'd spent his life in the Carolinas and Virginia. He's headed to that region before he goes anywhere else.
Before Wichita, he'd spent his life in the Carolinas and Virginia. He's headed to that region before he goes anywhere else.
Venting and questioning the coach(for pretty much the first time) after a run of bad losses culminated by one pretty damn horrible one, is a whole lot different then incessantly whining that the program is permanently doomed. I still want Chris to succeed in the worst way, but I think it's fair to say that he hasn't exactly bowled anyone over so far. If it turns out he isn't the answer, IMO someone else will be. Like I said before, if Lav can get us to the tourney 2 out of 5 years, certainly we can find someone who can get us there 4 +/1 out of 5 years.
The question is not what a good HC would do. The question is why hasn't the school hired a good HC (and I'm talking Marshall good) since they let Lou come back in 1973. None of the coaches hired by STJ were hot by Miller/Marshall standards, Fran comes closest though he really was only hot regionally. So has the school been at fault as a bad judge of coaching talent (or simply too cheap, though that wouldn't be the case since the Lavin hire) or is the school just not that attractive to a hot or big name coach? That is the question.
I don't think it's any one reason. BM was the loyal asst and deserved a shot. We know the situations with FF and MJ. Norm was hired to do damage control. All 4 were hired on the cheap. That was the mindset of the administration back then. They weren't going to get a hot national up and comer with what they were willing to pay. The school opened the checkbook for Lav. I think one of the things that still has so many of us upset with him is that he could have and should have been the answer. As for CM, wasn't really sure what to make of that hire. Certainly the school paid enough to attract someone along the lines of a Miller/Marshall type, so not sure why they went the CM route. But with what they paid Lavin and am paying CM, they should be able to attract a pretty damn good coach if this doesn't work out.
we are sju
Active member
So instead of 1985 you are talking the early 90's.
Personally I find we are sju charming and pretty dead butch for a second baseman and so thought your criticism misplaced: there's lots of dreary humorless whiners around here but he's not one of them. I also sometimes wonder whether Jamaica is the Bermuda Triangle of coaching careers. Other than Norm and possibly even him every coaching hire post Louie was lauded and each of them turned to quickly to excrement. I think it much to early to judge Mullin but if he can't make it here how am I supposed to believe Danny Hurley can? As they say, insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result.
we are sju
Active member
The kind of coach everyone wants does not want to come here. Which works out since the school won't pay up for that guy anyway. What would make the most sense is to hire the next big thing before he becomes the next big thing. The problem with that is it is not an exact science. You are just as apt to hire Norm Roberts as Shaka Smart. And if the school does get lucky to hire "that guy" he will probably look to leave at some point.
Personally I think the school missed the boat on Mckillop when they hired Norm. He would have been happy here, he is a good game coach and he would have recruited to fit his style of play. We would never have gone to Final Four but we would be in contention for the tourney every year. We should try to find the next McKillop!
Personally I think the school missed the boat on Mckillop when they hired Norm. He would have been happy here, he is a good game coach and he would have recruited to fit his style of play. We would never have gone to Final Four but we would be in contention for the tourney every year. We should try to find the next McKillop!
One of the things I like about Mullin is he is the anti-Lavin when it comes to post game. He addresses a lot of the exact same criticisms that are expressed here, in a direct manner. But the trusting the process stuff is getting Lavinesque and I wish he'd throw us a bone. After the last game it is hard to find a single win on the remaining schedule and realistically we could end up with a 5 win season. I could survive that and even look to next season with some optimism considering the guys coming in but only if I saw the effort on the court. Effort is really the only thing I need to root for my guys. I will root win or lose but lack of effort simply disgusts me. There are only a couple of guys in the history of SJU ball that fall into that category for me. Even when we were playing with the devastated rosters under the Norm crew and last season, we saw guys playing hard. What I find really discouraging is the complete lack of pride on defense and guys literally jogging on the court or standing still on both offense and defense.
I would Trust the Process if I saw 100% hustle on the court every second of the game and all the players diving for 50/50 and guys like Ellison were hustling for rebounds. I think I've only seen Owens and Ponds put in that kind of effort consistently and very discouraging that Ponds didn't show it consistently in the last game. Anything less than every player on the floor at any moment being 100% committed is unacceptable and if a guy is jogging or standing still, that to me is a yank him immediately moment. Let me see that and I will trust.
I would Trust the Process if I saw 100% hustle on the court every second of the game and all the players diving for 50/50 and guys like Ellison were hustling for rebounds. I think I've only seen Owens and Ponds put in that kind of effort consistently and very discouraging that Ponds didn't show it consistently in the last game. Anything less than every player on the floor at any moment being 100% committed is unacceptable and if a guy is jogging or standing still, that to me is a yank him immediately moment. Let me see that and I will trust.