Fire Mullin!

[ManhattAn1]

Hire an experienced Assistant Coach and hope to bring in a 5th year guy who can bang down low.

This is assuming everyone is eligible or does not leave.

That should be the goal for next year.

 

[SJU1512]

It's fair to criticize Mullin. His tenure has been nothing short of a disaster so far. He failed to re-recruit Lavin players which put him even further behind the eight ball than he could have been. He failed to hire someone whom was ever a successful coach as an assistant. (Matt is a great recruiter and I'm hoping that St. Jean is a Nash style beautiful basketball mind). Slice was a big misstep, hell if we wanted a local guy who is resting on his laurels, but would ultimately be a huge bust we could have gotten Fred Hill, Gonzo, or Mike Rice much cheaper. He's game managing is still in its infancy and his line-ups are questionable.

However, before fire him, we have to give him his shot with his players. Lovett, Ponds, and Bashir seems like they can play on a Big East level, everyone else let's cross our fingers and hope.

2018 is going to be a big year for us. It will determine if we are going to be Marquette or DePaul.

Let's right this ship.

Good points but to be fair, Lovett was a Lavin recruit Sampson would have been nice but who's to say he'd have ever come anyway? The only others were existing players: Amar, Jones, Obekpa and Jordan. Not reasonable to fault Mullin for those. Mullin did pretty well especially considering the time of year, unless you are counting Lavin's best recruit of all time: Briscoe...

Mussini a Lav kid too

It's time for a recap, since this fire Mullin idea lasted 5 pages so far, and I'm losing track of it. The firing squad blames Mullin for losses to Del State and LIU, for hiring Slice, for using the friends and family package to hire assistants, for failing to follow up on one Lavin recruit, for not keeping CJ, for keeping Amar, for not teaching defense, for not developing the bigs, and for not wearing a tie. And I forgot, for sitting on the scorer's table.

.

just for the record I was the first one to bring up the sitting on the scorers table last year and st jean doing the coaching

And not once have I posted on this thread about firing Mullin

I was just throwing everything about Mullin in there. I know it's just a few posters that are laying the blame on Mullin, and it's not you. The scorer's table was nothing compared to sitting in a chair behind the basket in Hawaii last season. Mulin had an interesting quote the other day about how college basketball changed since he played. How there were good teams and atrocious teams back then. Now, there are good to great players throughout division one. Maybe he is realizing what is ahead of him, meaning making this program relevant is about more than some good local kids staying home. It's about getting very good and some great players every single year, and them coaching them up so they can play at a high level on a consistent basis.

In Mullin's day, a very good program could get a great player and he would likely stay 4 years. In this era, great players are gone by the end of sophomore season at the latest. This puts pressure on programs to constantly restock with great players, which only a few can do consistently. That's a much taller task than Looie and Lapchick had in terms of recruiting.

Was just thinking about how frustrating this is for fans and for the HC: You get a relatively highly ranked kid(IE Harkless) who you think you'll have a few years, and he has a nice year and bolts. You get a not so high ranked kid(IE Sima) who you think you'll have for 4 years and he splits early because he feels he deserves more PT(or for whatever reason). I realize that it's become part of the college basketball landscape, but because we've been down for so long I find myself constantly waiting for the other shoe to drop with one or more of these kids.

So true. So many talented kids develop inflated sense of self, have self interested "advisors" & "going to the League" is front and center all the time. I can appreciate some kids come from tough economic circumstances and need $$. That said, the aspirations just don't line up with reality. Unfortunately we live in an instant gratification world & many kids will continue to make crazy decisions. If a kid is ready, by all means go, but just look at list of players overseas & the degree of difficulty to "go to the League" is steep.

I worry about kids who have gone to multiple high schools, have been crowned "can't miss" by advisors or even parents, can't stay in one place very long, but are long shots to be NBA players. Building a program with solid upperclass kids is so difficult, especially for programs trying to catch up. The expectation to win immediately is real all too often. I would love to see our talented backcourt duo play together for four years, but doubt it, especially in one case.

Sounds like a not so veiled reference to Marcus Lovett. I just hope we can enjoy our backcourt for at least one year after this.

Me too.

Fitting to come up in a coaching thread as I'm hoping this is a key place where Mullin and Richmond can have added influence. Know that often little can be done, but in instances where something can would think two guys that have been to the dance themselves - including Mullin as a decision-making executive - would have a better chance than most to. Certainly unique to have that kind of first-hand NBA experience around a college program.

 

[paultzman]

It's fair to criticize Mullin. His tenure has been nothing short of a disaster so far. He failed to re-recruit Lavin players which put him even further behind the eight ball than he could have been. He failed to hire someone whom was ever a successful coach as an assistant. (Matt is a great recruiter and I'm hoping that St. Jean is a Nash style beautiful basketball mind). Slice was a big misstep, hell if we wanted a local guy who is resting on his laurels, but would ultimately be a huge bust we could have gotten Fred Hill, Gonzo, or Mike Rice much cheaper. He's game managing is still in its infancy and his line-ups are questionable.

However, before fire him, we have to give him his shot with his players. Lovett, Ponds, and Bashir seems like they can play on a Big East level, everyone else let's cross our fingers and hope.

2018 is going to be a big year for us. It will determine if we are going to be Marquette or DePaul.

Let's right this ship.

Good points but to be fair, Lovett was a Lavin recruit Sampson would have been nice but who's to say he'd have ever come anyway? The only others were existing players: Amar, Jones, Obekpa and Jordan. Not reasonable to fault Mullin for those. Mullin did pretty well especially considering the time of year, unless you are counting Lavin's best recruit of all time: Briscoe...

Mussini a Lav kid too

It's time for a recap, since this fire Mullin idea lasted 5 pages so far, and I'm losing track of it. The firing squad blames Mullin for losses to Del State and LIU, for hiring Slice, for using the friends and family package to hire assistants, for failing to follow up on one Lavin recruit, for not keeping CJ, for keeping Amar, for not teaching defense, for not developing the bigs, and for not wearing a tie. And I forgot, for sitting on the scorer's table.

.

just for the record I was the first one to bring up the sitting on the scorers table last year and st jean doing the coaching

And not once have I posted on this thread about firing Mullin

I was just throwing everything about Mullin in there. I know it's just a few posters that are laying the blame on Mullin, and it's not you. The scorer's table was nothing compared to sitting in a chair behind the basket in Hawaii last season. Mulin had an interesting quote the other day about how college basketball changed since he played. How there were good teams and atrocious teams back then. Now, there are good to great players throughout division one. Maybe he is realizing what is ahead of him, meaning making this program relevant is about more than some good local kids staying home. It's about getting very good and some great players every single year, and them coaching them up so they can play at a high level on a consistent basis.

In Mullin's day, a very good program could get a great player and he would likely stay 4 years. In this era, great players are gone by the end of sophomore season at the latest. This puts pressure on programs to constantly restock with great players, which only a few can do consistently. That's a much taller task than Looie and Lapchick had in terms of recruiting.

Was just thinking about how frustrating this is for fans and for the HC: You get a relatively highly ranked kid(IE Harkless) who you think you'll have a few years, and he has a nice year and bolts. You get a not so high ranked kid(IE Sima) who you think you'll have for 4 years and he splits early because he feels he deserves more PT(or for whatever reason). I realize that it's become part of the college basketball landscape, but because we've been down for so long I find myself constantly waiting for the other shoe to drop with one or more of these kids.

So true. So many talented kids develop inflated sense of self, have self interested "advisors" & "going to the League" is front and center all the time. I can appreciate some kids come from tough economic circumstances and need $$. That said, the aspirations just don't line up with reality. Unfortunately we live in an instant gratification world & many kids will continue to make crazy decisions. If a kid is ready, by all means go, but just look at list of players overseas & the degree of difficulty to "go to the League" is steep.

I worry about kids who have gone to multiple high schools, have been crowned "can't miss" by advisors or even parents, can't stay in one place very long, but are long shots to be NBA players. Building a program with solid upperclass kids is so difficult, especially for programs trying to catch up. The expectation to win immediately is real all too often. I would love to see our talented backcourt duo play together for four years, but doubt it, especially in one case.

Sounds like a not so veiled reference to Marcus Lovett. I just hope we can enjoy our backcourt for at least one year after this.

Me too.

Fitting to come up in a coaching thread as I'm hoping this is a key place where Mullin and Richmond can have added influence. Know that often little can be done, but in instances where something can would think two guys that have been to the dance themselves - including Mullin as a decision-making executive - would have a better chance than most to. Certainly unique to have that kind of first-hand NBA experience around a college program.

Good point. Sorry for venting, just the nature of the college game with "next level" craziness got to me. Hopefully you are right & we enjoy our dynamic duo for at least a few more years.

 

[we are sju]

It's fair to criticize Mullin. His tenure has been nothing short of a disaster so far. He failed to re-recruit Lavin players which put him even further behind the eight ball than he could have been. He failed to hire someone whom was ever a successful coach as an assistant. (Matt is a great recruiter and I'm hoping that St. Jean is a Nash style beautiful basketball mind). Slice was a big misstep, hell if we wanted a local guy who is resting on his laurels, but would ultimately be a huge bust we could have gotten Fred Hill, Gonzo, or Mike Rice much cheaper. He's game managing is still in its infancy and his line-ups are questionable.

However, before fire him, we have to give him his shot with his players. Lovett, Ponds, and Bashir seems like they can play on a Big East level, everyone else let's cross our fingers and hope.

2018 is going to be a big year for us. It will determine if we are going to be Marquette or DePaul.

Let's right this ship.

Good points but to be fair, Lovett was a Lavin recruit Sampson would have been nice but who's to say he'd have ever come anyway? The only others were existing players: Amar, Jones, Obekpa and Jordan. Not reasonable to fault Mullin for those. Mullin did pretty well especially considering the time of year, unless you are counting Lavin's best recruit of all time: Briscoe...

Mussini a Lav kid too

It's time for a recap, since this fire Mullin idea lasted 5 pages so far, and I'm losing track of it. The firing squad blames Mullin for losses to Del State and LIU, for hiring Slice, for using the friends and family package to hire assistants, for failing to follow up on one Lavin recruit, for not keeping CJ, for keeping Amar, for not teaching defense, for not developing the bigs, and for not wearing a tie. And I forgot, for sitting on the scorer's table.

.

just for the record I was the first one to bring up the sitting on the scorers table last year and st jean doing the coaching

And not once have I posted on this thread about firing Mullin

I was just throwing everything about Mullin in there. I know it's just a few posters that are laying the blame on Mullin, and it's not you. The scorer's table was nothing compared to sitting in a chair behind the basket in Hawaii last season. Mulin had an interesting quote the other day about how college basketball changed since he played. How there were good teams and atrocious teams back then. Now, there are good to great players throughout division one. Maybe he is realizing what is ahead of him, meaning making this program relevant is about more than some good local kids staying home. It's about getting very good and some great players every single year, and them coaching them up so they can play at a high level on a consistent basis.

In Mullin's day, a very good program could get a great player and he would likely stay 4 years. In this era, great players are gone by the end of sophomore season at the latest. This puts pressure on programs to constantly restock with great players, which only a few can do consistently. That's a much taller task than Looie and Lapchick had in terms of recruiting.

Was just thinking about how frustrating this is for fans and for the HC: You get a relatively highly ranked kid(IE Harkless) who you think you'll have a few years, and he has a nice year and bolts. You get a not so high ranked kid(IE Sima) who you think you'll have for 4 years and he splits early because he feels he deserves more PT(or for whatever reason). I realize that it's become part of the college basketball landscape, but because we've been down for so long I find myself constantly waiting for the other shoe to drop with one or more of these kids.

So true. So many talented kids develop inflated sense of self, have self interested "advisors" & "going to the League" is front and center all the time. I can appreciate some kids come from tough economic circumstances and need $$. That said, the aspirations just don't line up with reality. Unfortunately we live in an instant gratification world & many kids will continue to make crazy decisions. If a kid is ready, by all means go, but just look at list of players overseas & the degree of difficulty to "go to the League" is steep.

I worry about kids who have gone to multiple high schools, have been crowned "can't miss" by advisors or even parents, can't stay in one place very long, but are long shots to be NBA players. Building a program with solid upperclass kids is so difficult, especially for programs trying to catch up. The expectation to win immediately is real all too often. I would love to see our talented backcourt duo play together for four years, but doubt it, especially in one case.

Sounds like a not so veiled reference to Marcus Lovett. I just hope we can enjoy our backcourt for at least one year after this.

Me too.

Fitting to come up in a coaching thread as I'm hoping this is a key place where Mullin and Richmond can have added influence. Know that often little can be done, but in instances where something can would think two guys that have been to the dance themselves - including Mullin as a decision-making executive - would have a better chance than most to. Certainly unique to have that kind of first-hand NBA experience around a college program.

Good point. Sorry for venting, just the nature of the college game with "next level" craziness got to me. Hopefully you are right & we enjoy our dynamic duo for at least a few more years.

It is crazy that we have mostly been irrelevant and the couple times we got kids that were good they leave early denying us a chance to actually be decent in the following years.
Cook, Harkless, Sampson and now probably Lovett. Very frustrating

 

[Class of 72]

It's fair to criticize Mullin. His tenure has been nothing short of a disaster so far. He failed to re-recruit Lavin players which put him even further behind the eight ball than he could have been. He failed to hire someone whom was ever a successful coach as an assistant. (Matt is a great recruiter and I'm hoping that St. Jean is a Nash style beautiful basketball mind). Slice was a big misstep, hell if we wanted a local guy who is resting on his laurels, but would ultimately be a huge bust we could have gotten Fred Hill, Gonzo, or Mike Rice much cheaper. He's game managing is still in its infancy and his line-ups are questionable.

However, before fire him, we have to give him his shot with his players. Lovett, Ponds, and Bashir seems like they can play on a Big East level, everyone else let's cross our fingers and hope.

2018 is going to be a big year for us. It will determine if we are going to be Marquette or DePaul.

Let's right this ship.

Good points but to be fair, Lovett was a Lavin recruit Sampson would have been nice but who's to say he'd have ever come anyway? The only others were existing players: Amar, Jones, Obekpa and Jordan. Not reasonable to fault Mullin for those. Mullin did pretty well especially considering the time of year, unless you are counting Lavin's best recruit of all time: Briscoe...

Paul, your post is full of irony.
Two years ago Monasch and Lavin were no longer on speaking terms. With Monasch that was not necessarily a bad thing as he was a POS. Lavin's winning record was not the issue. He went to the post season all 4 years he sat on the bench. That was unprecedented at St. John's in the post Carnesecca era. His invisibility in NYC high school gyms and detachment from the local programs drew a huge amount of criticism and rightly so. Having been close to a few people in the PSAL I ventured out to Staten Island to watch a 6'7 kid who showed incredible potential. Lavin barely recruited him although Tony was at the two games I watched him compete in. That kid was Hassan Martin, who, as a senior now at Rhode Island, is averaging 16 pts, 8 rebounds while shooting 67% FG and 84%ft. Creighton from Omaha offered and Providence offered. We did not. Had he signed Martin and followed that with Isaiah Briscoe, Sampson and Lovett, he would still be coaching St. John's today, especially since Obekpa would not have transferred. He failed to close on a couple of other local area kids that most know here but two years ago his fate was decided by some internal politics and the excuse that his salary was too high. St. John's decided to still pay that salary but to a man who never coached a day in his life. Ironic to say the least!

 

[Class of 72]

It's fair to criticize Mullin. His tenure has been nothing short of a disaster so far. He failed to re-recruit Lavin players which put him even further behind the eight ball than he could have been. He failed to hire someone whom was ever a successful coach as an assistant. (Matt is a great recruiter and I'm hoping that St. Jean is a Nash style beautiful basketball mind). Slice was a big misstep, hell if we wanted a local guy who is resting on his laurels, but would ultimately be a huge bust we could have gotten Fred Hill, Gonzo, or Mike Rice much cheaper. He's game managing is still in its infancy and his line-ups are questionable.

However, before fire him, we have to give him his shot with his players. Lovett, Ponds, and Bashir seems like they can play on a Big East level, everyone else let's cross our fingers and hope.

2018 is going to be a big year for us. It will determine if we are going to be Marquette or DePaul.

Let's right this ship.

Good points but to be fair, Lovett was a Lavin recruit Sampson would have been nice but who's to say he'd have ever come anyway? The only others were existing players: Amar, Jones, Obekpa and Jordan. Not reasonable to fault Mullin for those. Mullin did pretty well especially considering the time of year, unless you are counting Lavin's best recruit of all time: Briscoe...

Mussini a Lav kid too

It's time for a recap, since this fire Mullin idea lasted 5 pages so far, and I'm losing track of it. The firing squad blames Mullin for losses to Del State and LIU, for hiring Slice, for using the friends and family package to hire assistants, for failing to follow up on one Lavin recruit, for not keeping CJ, for keeping Amar, for not teaching defense, for not developing the bigs, and for not wearing a tie. And I forgot, for sitting on the scorer's table.

.

just for the record I was the first one to bring up the sitting on the scorers table last year and st jean doing the coaching

And not once have I posted on this thread about firing Mullin

I was just throwing everything about Mullin in there. I know it's just a few posters that are laying the blame on Mullin, and it's not you. The scorer's table was nothing compared to sitting in a chair behind the basket in Hawaii last season. Mulin had an interesting quote the other day about how college basketball changed since he played. How there were good teams and atrocious teams back then. Now, there are good to great players throughout division one. Maybe he is realizing what is ahead of him, meaning making this program relevant is about more than some good local kids staying home. It's about getting very good and some great players every single year, and them coaching them up so they can play at a high level on a consistent basis.

In Mullin's day, a very good program could get a great player and he would likely stay 4 years. In this era, great players are gone by the end of sophomore season at the latest. This puts pressure on programs to constantly restock with great players, which only a few can do consistently. That's a much taller task than Looie and Lapchick had in terms of recruiting.

Was just thinking about how frustrating this is for fans and for the HC: You get a relatively highly ranked kid(IE Harkless) who you think you'll have a few years, and he has a nice year and bolts. You get a not so high ranked kid(IE Sima) who you think you'll have for 4 years and he splits early because he feels he deserves more PT(or for whatever reason). I realize that it's become part of the college basketball landscape, but because we've been down for so long I find myself constantly waiting for the other shoe to drop with one or more of these kids.

So true. So many talented kids develop inflated sense of self, have self interested "advisors" & "going to the League" is front and center all the time. I can appreciate some kids come from tough economic circumstances and need $$. That said, the aspirations just don't line up with reality. Unfortunately we live in an instant gratification world & many kids will continue to make crazy decisions. If a kid is ready, by all means go, but just look at list of players overseas & the degree of difficulty to "go to the League" is steep.

I worry about kids who have gone to multiple high schools, have been crowned "can't miss" by advisors or even parents, can't stay in one place very long, but are long shots to be NBA players. Building a program with solid upperclass kids is so difficult, especially for programs trying to catch up. The expectation to win immediately is real all too often. I would love to see our talented backcourt duo play together for four years, but doubt it, especially in one case.

Sounds like a not so veiled reference to Marcus Lovett. I just hope we can enjoy our backcourt for at least one year after this.

Me too.

Fitting to come up in a coaching thread as I'm hoping this is a key place where Mullin and Richmond can have added influence. Know that often little can be done, but in instances where something can would think two guys that have been to the dance themselves - including Mullin as a decision-making executive - would have a better chance than most to. Certainly unique to have that kind of first-hand NBA experience around a college program.

Good point. Sorry for venting, just the nature of the college game with "next level" craziness got to me. Hopefully you are right & we enjoy our dynamic duo for at least a few more years.

It is crazy that we have mostly been irrelevant and the couple times we got kids that were good they leave early denying us a chance to actually be decent in the following years.
Cook, Harkless, Sampson and now probably Lovett. Very frustrating

Where is Lovett going? The only reason he would leave is if he thought the coaches could not improve his game or surround him with other talented players. He will be back next year and his 3rd year will depend on Mullin closing on his targets.

 

[we are sju]

It's fair to criticize Mullin. His tenure has been nothing short of a disaster so far. He failed to re-recruit Lavin players which put him even further behind the eight ball than he could have been. He failed to hire someone whom was ever a successful coach as an assistant. (Matt is a great recruiter and I'm hoping that St. Jean is a Nash style beautiful basketball mind). Slice was a big misstep, hell if we wanted a local guy who is resting on his laurels, but would ultimately be a huge bust we could have gotten Fred Hill, Gonzo, or Mike Rice much cheaper. He's game managing is still in its infancy and his line-ups are questionable.

However, before fire him, we have to give him his shot with his players. Lovett, Ponds, and Bashir seems like they can play on a Big East level, everyone else let's cross our fingers and hope.

2018 is going to be a big year for us. It will determine if we are going to be Marquette or DePaul.

Let's right this ship.

Good points but to be fair, Lovett was a Lavin recruit Sampson would have been nice but who's to say he'd have ever come anyway? The only others were existing players: Amar, Jones, Obekpa and Jordan. Not reasonable to fault Mullin for those. Mullin did pretty well especially considering the time of year, unless you are counting Lavin's best recruit of all time: Briscoe...

Mussini a Lav kid too

It's time for a recap, since this fire Mullin idea lasted 5 pages so far, and I'm losing track of it. The firing squad blames Mullin for losses to Del State and LIU, for hiring Slice, for using the friends and family package to hire assistants, for failing to follow up on one Lavin recruit, for not keeping CJ, for keeping Amar, for not teaching defense, for not developing the bigs, and for not wearing a tie. And I forgot, for sitting on the scorer's table.

.

just for the record I was the first one to bring up the sitting on the scorers table last year and st jean doing the coaching

And not once have I posted on this thread about firing Mullin

I was just throwing everything about Mullin in there. I know it's just a few posters that are laying the blame on Mullin, and it's not you. The scorer's table was nothing compared to sitting in a chair behind the basket in Hawaii last season. Mulin had an interesting quote the other day about how college basketball changed since he played. How there were good teams and atrocious teams back then. Now, there are good to great players throughout division one. Maybe he is realizing what is ahead of him, meaning making this program relevant is about more than some good local kids staying home. It's about getting very good and some great players every single year, and them coaching them up so they can play at a high level on a consistent basis.

In Mullin's day, a very good program could get a great player and he would likely stay 4 years. In this era, great players are gone by the end of sophomore season at the latest. This puts pressure on programs to constantly restock with great players, which only a few can do consistently. That's a much taller task than Looie and Lapchick had in terms of recruiting.

Was just thinking about how frustrating this is for fans and for the HC: You get a relatively highly ranked kid(IE Harkless) who you think you'll have a few years, and he has a nice year and bolts. You get a not so high ranked kid(IE Sima) who you think you'll have for 4 years and he splits early because he feels he deserves more PT(or for whatever reason). I realize that it's become part of the college basketball landscape, but because we've been down for so long I find myself constantly waiting for the other shoe to drop with one or more of these kids.

So true. So many talented kids develop inflated sense of self, have self interested "advisors" & "going to the League" is front and center all the time. I can appreciate some kids come from tough economic circumstances and need $$. That said, the aspirations just don't line up with reality. Unfortunately we live in an instant gratification world & many kids will continue to make crazy decisions. If a kid is ready, by all means go, but just look at list of players overseas & the degree of difficulty to "go to the League" is steep.

I worry about kids who have gone to multiple high schools, have been crowned "can't miss" by advisors or even parents, can't stay in one place very long, but are long shots to be NBA players. Building a program with solid upperclass kids is so difficult, especially for programs trying to catch up. The expectation to win immediately is real all too often. I would love to see our talented backcourt duo play together for four years, but doubt it, especially in one case.

Sounds like a not so veiled reference to Marcus Lovett. I just hope we can enjoy our backcourt for at least one year after this.

Me too.

Fitting to come up in a coaching thread as I'm hoping this is a key place where Mullin and Richmond can have added influence. Know that often little can be done, but in instances where something can would think two guys that have been to the dance themselves - including Mullin as a decision-making executive - would have a better chance than most to. Certainly unique to have that kind of first-hand NBA experience around a college program.

Good point. Sorry for venting, just the nature of the college game with "next level" craziness got to me. Hopefully you are right & we enjoy our dynamic duo for at least a few more years.

It is crazy that we have mostly been irrelevant and the couple times we got kids that were good they leave early denying us a chance to actually be decent in the following years.
Cook, Harkless, Sampson and now probably Lovett. Very frustrating

Where is Lovett going? The only reason he would leave is if he thought the coaches could not improve his game or surround him with other talented players. He will be back next year and his 3rd year will depend on Mullin closing on his targets.

Where was Cook and Sampson going? Or Jordan, forgot him.
Lets just say that I would bet anything you ever see Brown, Ponds and Lovett together for one reason or three.

 

[fun]

Where was Cook and Sampson going? Or Jordan, forgot him.
Lets just say that I would bet anything you ever see Brown, Ponds and Lovett together for one reason or three.

I don't know, even Bluto hasn't floated this one yet. Lovett is 20, he'll be 21 in April. If he transferred and sat a year and he'd be a 22 year old sophomore who's played one year out of the past three. That's not good for anyone's career. I suppose he could play to Europe, if Mussini's considered a star there they'd probably make Lovett an earl or a duke or something.

 

[we are sju]

Where was Cook and Sampson going? Or Jordan, forgot him.
Lets just say that I would bet anything you ever see Brown, Ponds and Lovett together for one reason or three.

I don't know, even Bluto hasn't floated this one yet. Lovett is 20, he'll be 21 in April. If he transferred and sat a year and he'd be a 22 year old sophomore who's played one year out of the past three. That's not good for anyone's career. I suppose he could play to Europe, if Mussini's considered a star there they'd probably make Lovett an earl or a duke or something.

Nothing to it, just a team of Brown, Clark, Ahmad, Ponds and Lovett with Yakwe, Simon and Mussini off the bench should be a tourney team. Doubt Brown will be here next year and if he ever does one of the guards probably won't. No rhyme or reason to it just how things seem to happen for us. I guess way around it is to bring in a bunch of good guys where losing a couple does not really make a dent, but WE ARE...... not Kentucky.

 

[SJU1512]

It's fair to criticize Mullin. His tenure has been nothing short of a disaster so far. He failed to re-recruit Lavin players which put him even further behind the eight ball than he could have been. He failed to hire someone whom was ever a successful coach as an assistant. (Matt is a great recruiter and I'm hoping that St. Jean is a Nash style beautiful basketball mind). Slice was a big misstep, hell if we wanted a local guy who is resting on his laurels, but would ultimately be a huge bust we could have gotten Fred Hill, Gonzo, or Mike Rice much cheaper. He's game managing is still in its infancy and his line-ups are questionable.

However, before fire him, we have to give him his shot with his players. Lovett, Ponds, and Bashir seems like they can play on a Big East level, everyone else let's cross our fingers and hope.

2018 is going to be a big year for us. It will determine if we are going to be Marquette or DePaul.

Let's right this ship.

Good points but to be fair, Lovett was a Lavin recruit Sampson would have been nice but who's to say he'd have ever come anyway? The only others were existing players: Amar, Jones, Obekpa and Jordan. Not reasonable to fault Mullin for those. Mullin did pretty well especially considering the time of year, unless you are counting Lavin's best recruit of all time: Briscoe...

Mussini a Lav kid too

It's time for a recap, since this fire Mullin idea lasted 5 pages so far, and I'm losing track of it. The firing squad blames Mullin for losses to Del State and LIU, for hiring Slice, for using the friends and family package to hire assistants, for failing to follow up on one Lavin recruit, for not keeping CJ, for keeping Amar, for not teaching defense, for not developing the bigs, and for not wearing a tie. And I forgot, for sitting on the scorer's table.

.

just for the record I was the first one to bring up the sitting on the scorers table last year and st jean doing the coaching

And not once have I posted on this thread about firing Mullin

I was just throwing everything about Mullin in there. I know it's just a few posters that are laying the blame on Mullin, and it's not you. The scorer's table was nothing compared to sitting in a chair behind the basket in Hawaii last season. Mulin had an interesting quote the other day about how college basketball changed since he played. How there were good teams and atrocious teams back then. Now, there are good to great players throughout division one. Maybe he is realizing what is ahead of him, meaning making this program relevant is about more than some good local kids staying home. It's about getting very good and some great players every single year, and them coaching them up so they can play at a high level on a consistent basis.

In Mullin's day, a very good program could get a great player and he would likely stay 4 years. In this era, great players are gone by the end of sophomore season at the latest. This puts pressure on programs to constantly restock with great players, which only a few can do consistently. That's a much taller task than Looie and Lapchick had in terms of recruiting.

Was just thinking about how frustrating this is for fans and for the HC: You get a relatively highly ranked kid(IE Harkless) who you think you'll have a few years, and he has a nice year and bolts. You get a not so high ranked kid(IE Sima) who you think you'll have for 4 years and he splits early because he feels he deserves more PT(or for whatever reason). I realize that it's become part of the college basketball landscape, but because we've been down for so long I find myself constantly waiting for the other shoe to drop with one or more of these kids.

So true. So many talented kids develop inflated sense of self, have self interested "advisors" & "going to the League" is front and center all the time. I can appreciate some kids come from tough economic circumstances and need $$. That said, the aspirations just don't line up with reality. Unfortunately we live in an instant gratification world & many kids will continue to make crazy decisions. If a kid is ready, by all means go, but just look at list of players overseas & the degree of difficulty to "go to the League" is steep.

I worry about kids who have gone to multiple high schools, have been crowned "can't miss" by advisors or even parents, can't stay in one place very long, but are long shots to be NBA players. Building a program with solid upperclass kids is so difficult, especially for programs trying to catch up. The expectation to win immediately is real all too often. I would love to see our talented backcourt duo play together for four years, but doubt it, especially in one case.

Sounds like a not so veiled reference to Marcus Lovett. I just hope we can enjoy our backcourt for at least one year after this.

Me too.

Fitting to come up in a coaching thread as I'm hoping this is a key place where Mullin and Richmond can have added influence. Know that often little can be done, but in instances where something can would think two guys that have been to the dance themselves - including Mullin as a decision-making executive - would have a better chance than most to. Certainly unique to have that kind of first-hand NBA experience around a college program.

Good point. Sorry for venting, just the nature of the college game with "next level" craziness got to me. Hopefully you are right & we enjoy our dynamic duo for at least a few more years.

No apologies at all, and agree re: nature of the game. I just get concerned when I see that kind of reference coming from you.

 

[westchesterjoe]

I am amazed at the amount of criticism towards Mullin and to even think of canning him, seems awfully premature. This is a Program, under incompetent previous Administration, FH,etc, that hired Jarvis, Roberts and Lavin. All of them failed to varying degrees to rebuild a Program, that was consistently a top 20 to top 50 program for most of our Lifetimes.
These 3 Showed they couldn't do it and Lavin won 1 Year with Roberts players and recruited 1 good class, i.e DLO, Sampson, Pointer, Branch, Harkless.. he got Rysheed Jordan who proved to be a lesser player than touted and was a constant off court problem. Obepka? Another problem child. Lavin , like Jarvis, failed miserably to recruit locally and seemed lazy with that big contract. He also justified all the criticism that UCLA fans heeped on him.

Mullin was hired late in Spring 2015 and was handed a empty cupboard by Lavin. He kept Lovett, who didnt qualify and missed all 2015 season. This Year he got a terrific player in Ponds , who teamed with Lovett give us a quality, quick but, small guard duo. lovett has been hurt for several games. We lost a questionable BE talent player in Sima and have a development project in Yakwe, who is not instinctively a BB player. He may or may not be more than a shot blocker. The jury is out but, he has poor hands and fundamentals.

Taking Mullin to task for losses so far, is fair game but, he is really just beginning to build a Program. Other than Ponds, Lovett and Mussini it is doubtful anyone else on our Roster would be more than a Bench Player on most other BE squads. Mussini being just the spot up 3 point shooter, who can spark a team. Right now, we have a limited front court game, offensively and defensively. The players in those positions are limited . Sometimes your players are not up to the demands required. .

Give Mullin a year or 2 more before all this talk of getting rid of him.Villanova, Creighton, Butler, Xavier, Providence, Seton Hall , G''town, Marquette, are Winners because they have a cadre of 4 year players and, the replacements in the Wings, when they lose a Archiadiacono or Ochifu. Mullin hasnt had a chance to build that core of players at all positions yet. He will1

And, as for Slice, he wasnt ever going to be the X and O guy, He wasn't exactly a Wunderkind at Manhattan as Head Coach.. Having him and Matt A on the same staff, was really putting 2 chefs in the kitchen and that never works.

 

[fuchsia]

"Good points but to be fair, Lovett was a Lavin recruit Sampson would have been nice but who's to say he'd have ever come anyway? The only others were existing players: Amar, Jones, Obekpa and Jordan. Not reasonable to fault Mullin for those. Mullin did pretty well especially considering the time of year, unless you are counting Lavin's best recruit of all time: Briscoe..."

Paul, wasn't Briscoe the shooting guard on the Darius Miles elite eight team?

 

[Red.Fans]

"Good points but to be fair, Lovett was a Lavin recruit Sampson would have been nice but who's to say he'd have ever come anyway? The only others were existing players: Amar, Jones, Obekpa and Jordan. Not reasonable to fault Mullin for those. Mullin did pretty well especially considering the time of year, unless you are counting Lavin's best recruit of all time: Briscoe..."

Paul, wasn't Briscoe the shooting guard on the Darius Miles elite eight team?

Yes in the Jarvis-Lavin Fantasy League. Lenny Cooke team captain with Cheik Diallo and Ivan Renko rounding out the starting 5.

 

[fuchsia]

One of my real regrets as a STJ fan is never getting to see an Omar Cook - Marcus Hatten backcourt.

 

[we are sju]

One of my real regrets as a STJ fan is never getting to see an Omar Cook - Marcus Hatten backcourt.

How about
Glover
Artest
Shaw
Barkley
Cook
or

Glover
whoever
Hatten
Barkley
Cook

or
Obekpa
Sampson
Harkless
Harrison
Jordan
6th man Sir Dom

 

[lawmanfan]

One of my real regrets as a STJ fan is never getting to see an Omar Cook - Marcus Hatten backcourt.

Wow, you managed to work one of my all-time favorite SJU player and one of my all-time least favorites into the same sentence.

 

[MainMan]

One of my real regrets as a STJ fan is never getting to see an Omar Cook - Marcus Hatten backcourt.

Wow, you managed to work one of my all-time favorite SJU player and one of my all-time least favorites into the same sentence.

I with you on this one. Hatten was such a damn ball hog.

 

[Class of 72]

Where was Cook and Sampson going? Or Jordan, forgot him.
Lets just say that I would bet anything you ever see Brown, Ponds and Lovett together for one reason or three.

I don't know, even Bluto hasn't floated this one yet. Lovett is 20, he'll be 21 in April. If he transferred and sat a year and he'd be a 22 year old sophomore who's played one year out of the past three. That's not good for anyone's career. I suppose he could play to Europe, if Mussini's considered a star there they'd probably make Lovett an earl or a duke or something.

Nothing to it, just a team of Brown, Clark, Ahmad, Ponds and Lovett with Yakwe, Simon and Mussini off the bench should be a tourney team. Doubt Brown will be here next year and if he ever does one of the guards probably won't. No rhyme or reason to it just how things seem to happen for us. I guess way around it is to bring in a bunch of good guys where losing a couple does not really make a dent, but WE ARE...... not Kentucky.

While what you say is a possibility there is no talk of that happening. Brown is signed. Period the end. Should another player leave (I hope), Matt is already hitting the circuit. The only way something apocalyptic happens is Mully hits the Schnapps and goes back to California with Mitch. He would never do that to his beloved coach C.

 

[we are sju]

Where was Cook and Sampson going? Or Jordan, forgot him.
Lets just say that I would bet anything you ever see Brown, Ponds and Lovett together for one reason or three.

I don't know, even Bluto hasn't floated this one yet. Lovett is 20, he'll be 21 in April. If he transferred and sat a year and he'd be a 22 year old sophomore who's played one year out of the past three. That's not good for anyone's career. I suppose he could play to Europe, if Mussini's considered a star there they'd probably make Lovett an earl or a duke or something.

Nothing to it, just a team of Brown, Clark, Ahmad, Ponds and Lovett with Yakwe, Simon and Mussini off the bench should be a tourney team. Doubt Brown will be here next year and if he ever does one of the guards probably won't. No rhyme or reason to it just how things seem to happen for us. I guess way around it is to bring in a bunch of good guys where losing a couple does not really make a dent, but WE ARE...... not Kentucky.

While what you say is a possibility there is no talk of that happening. Brown is signed. Period the end. Should another player leave (I hope), Matt is already hitting the circuit. The only way something apocalyptic happens is Mully hits the Schnapps and goes back to California with Mitch. He would never do that to his beloved coach C.

What was that Braveheart quote: "Every man dies, not every man truly lives"
SJU Basketball version would be:Every recruit signs, not every recruit is truly eligible

 

[RedStormRising]

It's fair to criticize Mullin. His tenure has been nothing short of a disaster so far. He failed to re-recruit Lavin players which put him even further behind the eight ball than he could have been. He failed to hire someone whom was ever a successful coach as an assistant. (Matt is a great recruiter and I'm hoping that St. Jean is a Nash style beautiful basketball mind). Slice was a big misstep, hell if we wanted a local guy who is resting on his laurels, but would ultimately be a huge bust we could have gotten Fred Hill, Gonzo, or Mike Rice much cheaper. He's game managing is still in its infancy and his line-ups are questionable.

However, before fire him, we have to give him his shot with his players. Lovett, Ponds, and Bashir seems like they can play on a Big East level, everyone else let's cross our fingers and hope.

2018 is going to be a big year for us. It will determine if we are going to be Marquette or DePaul.

Let's right this ship.

Good points but to be fair, Lovett was a Lavin recruit Sampson would have been nice but who's to say he'd have ever come anyway? The only others were existing players: Amar, Jones, Obekpa and Jordan. Not reasonable to fault Mullin for those. Mullin did pretty well especially considering the time of year, unless you are counting Lavin's best recruit of all time: Briscoe...

True, I liked Lav so I was just assuming the best like Obekpa stayed drug free, Samson came, Samir Doughty turned out okay, Georgios Papagiannis gave us a one and done etc. What can you do? I'll keep my MSG package until the end of time.