Fire Mullin!

Talk about our Bigs-Remind me, who did Slice bring on board?
 
It's fair to criticize Mullin. His tenure has been nothing short of a disaster so far. He failed to re-recruit Lavin players which put him even further behind the eight ball than he could have been. He failed to hire someone whom was ever a successful coach as an assistant. (Matt is a great recruiter and I'm hoping that St. Jean is a Nash style beautiful basketball mind). Slice was a big misstep, hell if we wanted a local guy who is resting on his laurels, but would ultimately be a huge bust we could have gotten Fred Hill, Gonzo, or Mike Rice much cheaper. He's game managing is still in its infancy and his line-ups are questionable.

However, before fire him, we have to give him his shot with his players. Lovett, Ponds, and Bashir seems like they can play on a Big East level, everyone else let's cross our fingers and hope.

2018 is going to be a big year for us. It will determine if we are going to be Marquette or DePaul.

Let's right this ship.
 
To quote Aaron Rodgers, some of you guys have to RELAX.

It seems pretty clear that Mullin has a plan for what he wants the program to look like and how he wants the team to play. You can see flashes of it here and there, and when it works it doesn't look bad.

There are two problems with it at the moment. One big one is that there aren't enough players in the program with the skill set or experience to play the game Mullin wants to play. And there was no way on earth that there were going to be at this stage of the game. It's frankly pretty impressive and an enormous credit to Matt A and Mullin that they have the ones they do. But beyond those you need players to fill out the roster and they have done what they can to do that.

The other one is that the staff is missing an experienced D1 coach. Maybe Slice was supposed to fill that role (tho he would not have been my choice for that task), but he isn't here and the spot hasn't been filled ... yet. Maybe with better players the coaching issues would be less glaring, but it is what it is.

Bottom line is that the whole thing is a developmental project. Fans always want to win now, but reality doesn't usually work that way. Like it or not you are going to have to sit through this year and probably next before you are in a position to start passing judgment. Between now and then all there is to do is nitpick, bitch and moan, cheer, and look for signs of progress.

And btw if I were you I would enjoy watching Ponds and Lovett and a few others. And remember it isn't like they dropped from the sky and landed at St John's.
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We are the most experienced Big East basketball fans when it comes to nitpicking, bitching and moaning, cheering and perennially looking for a sign, ANY SIGN, that the program will progess in our lifetime. ;) I could be off a year or two but we have been doing all of the above for a quarter century now.
I compare last year to Steve Lavin's 2nd season when he only coached 4 games in the 16 team Big East. That team, without a center, went 13–19 (6–12 Big East). Ten Big East teams won 20 or more games in 2011-12. That team was the "youngest team" in America. They had some problem children that slowed their progress but they subsequently went to the post season 3 years in a row. Considering the Norm Roberts one NIT team in 6 years that was huge progress.
I agree with you when you say "there aren't enough players in the program with the skill set or experience to play the game Mullin wants to play." However, except for Alibegovic, the entire team was recruited by Mullin et al. Granted they lack cohesiveness and experience. There are basically just 4 players with the requisite skill set to play the NBA offense Mullin wants to play to attract recruits. That offensive style is his selling point to recruits. The BIG HOWEVER is he can't coach THESE players with that style. There is enough talent to beat the Delaware States and LIUs if he had any ability to adjust to the team's strengths while minimizing the weaknesses. That has not been occurring and as a result the team has not been ready for opponents that watch game tapes and exploit our weaknesses. We offer no surprises, no new game plan suited to lesser hungrier opponents. That's motivation and coaching.
It is therefore unfair of us to blame any of the players. Not having the right players on the floor or having a porous defense is all coaching.
My hope is that after 4 years Mully will be at least as successful as Lavin was but we have a legitimate right to expect a little more if Mullin has his heart and soul invested in the program. That is something Lavin lacked in the end.
What we do not want to see is another failed 6 year experiment like the Roberts era with the urging to be patient. While I agree that most programs win with seniors you need new talent every year. Kentucky, Duke and North Carolina will win with freshmen and sophomores and we won't but we also should learn from the Lavin years you can't skip a year, ever. Mullin needs high level talent to play his game. Forget the wins and losses last year and this year but if he and Matt fail to sign studs next year I will consider the gamble to have failed.
There, I'm done bitching for today. ;)
 
It's fair to criticize Mullin. His tenure has been nothing short of a disaster so far. He failed to re-recruit Lavin players which put him even further behind the eight ball than he could have been. He failed to hire someone whom was ever a successful coach as an assistant. (Matt is a great recruiter and I'm hoping that St. Jean is a Nash style beautiful basketball mind). Slice was a big misstep, hell if we wanted a local guy who is resting on his laurels, but would ultimately be a huge bust we could have gotten Fred Hill, Gonzo, or Mike Rice much cheaper. He's game managing is still in its infancy and his line-ups are questionable.

However, before fire him, we have to give him his shot with his players. Lovett, Ponds, and Bashir seems like they can play on a Big East level, everyone else let's cross our fingers and hope.

2018 is going to be a big year for us. It will determine if we are going to be Marquette or DePaul.

Let's right this ship.
Click to expand...

Good points but to be fair, Lovett was a Lavin recruit Sampson would have been nice but who's to say he'd have ever come anyway? The only others were existing players: Amar, Jones, Obekpa and Jordan. Not reasonable to fault Mullin for those. Mullin did pretty well especially considering the time of year, unless you are counting Lavin's best recruit of all time: Briscoe...
 
It's fair to criticize Mullin. His tenure has been nothing short of a disaster so far. He failed to re-recruit Lavin players which put him even further behind the eight ball than he could have been. He failed to hire someone whom was ever a successful coach as an assistant. (Matt is a great recruiter and I'm hoping that St. Jean is a Nash style beautiful basketball mind). Slice was a big misstep, hell if we wanted a local guy who is resting on his laurels, but would ultimately be a huge bust we could have gotten Fred Hill, Gonzo, or Mike Rice much cheaper. He's game managing is still in its infancy and his line-ups are questionable.

However, before fire him, we have to give him his shot with his players. Lovett, Ponds, and Bashir seems like they can play on a Big East level, everyone else let's cross our fingers and hope.

2018 is going to be a big year for us. It will determine if we are going to be Marquette or DePaul.

Let's right this ship.
Click to expand...

Good points but to be fair, Lovett was a Lavin recruit Sampson would have been nice but who's to say he'd have ever come anyway? The only others were existing players: Amar, Jones, Obekpa and Jordan. Not reasonable to fault Mullin for those. Mullin did pretty well especially considering the time of year, unless you are counting Lavin's best recruit of all time: Briscoe...
Click to expand...

Mussini a Lav kid too
 
It's fair to criticize Mullin. His tenure has been nothing short of a disaster so far. He failed to re-recruit Lavin players which put him even further behind the eight ball than he could have been. He failed to hire someone whom was ever a successful coach as an assistant. (Matt is a great recruiter and I'm hoping that St. Jean is a Nash style beautiful basketball mind). Slice was a big misstep, hell if we wanted a local guy who is resting on his laurels, but would ultimately be a huge bust we could have gotten Fred Hill, Gonzo, or Mike Rice much cheaper. He's game managing is still in its infancy and his line-ups are questionable.

However, before fire him, we have to give him his shot with his players. Lovett, Ponds, and Bashir seems like they can play on a Big East level, everyone else let's cross our fingers and hope.

2018 is going to be a big year for us. It will determine if we are going to be Marquette or DePaul.

Let's right this ship.
Click to expand...

Good points but to be fair, Lovett was a Lavin recruit Sampson would have been nice but who's to say he'd have ever come anyway? The only others were existing players: Amar, Jones, Obekpa and Jordan. Not reasonable to fault Mullin for those. Mullin did pretty well especially considering the time of year, unless you are counting Lavin's best recruit of all time: Briscoe...
Click to expand...

Mussini a Lav kid too
Click to expand...

It's time for a recap, since this fire Mullin idea lasted 5 pages so far, and I'm losing track of it. The firing squad blames Mullin for losses to Del State and LIU, for hiring Slice, for using the friends and family package to hire assistants, for failing to follow up on one Lavin recruit, for not keeping CJ, for keeping Amar, for not teaching defense, for not developing the bigs, and for not wearing a tie. And I forgot, for sitting on the scorer's table.

So my recap is in his first full year of recruiting, Mullin lands Ponds, who is a budding star. Also gets one of the top 2 or 3 Jucos in the country. Gets Freud, for whatever that is worth. First partial year of recruiting, gets Sima, Yakwe and keeps Lovett in the fold. Year 3 we have limited ships and signed Brown, a potential non qual, and get 2 transfers, neither of whom are stars. The team is heading for another season well under 500. Some good recruits, but not enough of them. I don't see much improvement for next season unless he comes up with a mystery recruit. At best, Simon and Clark are OK, Brown makes it here and spends the season in foul trouble learning the college game.

So I came here to throw my hat in the Mullin ring, but end up writing about a good but not spectacular first 3 years of recruiting. With ships available, 18 seems to be the do or die year. We have had time to work the full court press on a number of highly ranked recruits. If we whiff on our main targets, forget the board, the press will have a field day destroying Mullin. They live for that anyway. Just like when the media in Florida roots for hurricanes to make landfall. I'm getting depressed thinking about it.
 
It's fair to criticize Mullin. His tenure has been nothing short of a disaster so far. He failed to re-recruit Lavin players which put him even further behind the eight ball than he could have been. He failed to hire someone whom was ever a successful coach as an assistant. (Matt is a great recruiter and I'm hoping that St. Jean is a Nash style beautiful basketball mind). Slice was a big misstep, hell if we wanted a local guy who is resting on his laurels, but would ultimately be a huge bust we could have gotten Fred Hill, Gonzo, or Mike Rice much cheaper. He's game managing is still in its infancy and his line-ups are questionable.

However, before fire him, we have to give him his shot with his players. Lovett, Ponds, and Bashir seems like they can play on a Big East level, everyone else let's cross our fingers and hope.

2018 is going to be a big year for us. It will determine if we are going to be Marquette or DePaul.

Let's right this ship.
Click to expand...

Good points but to be fair, Lovett was a Lavin recruit Sampson would have been nice but who's to say he'd have ever come anyway? The only others were existing players: Amar, Jones, Obekpa and Jordan. Not reasonable to fault Mullin for those. Mullin did pretty well especially considering the time of year, unless you are counting Lavin's best recruit of all time: Briscoe...
Click to expand...

Mussini a Lav kid too
Click to expand...

It's time for a recap, since this fire Mullin idea lasted 5 pages so far, and I'm losing track of it. The firing squad blames Mullin for losses to Del State and LIU, for hiring Slice, for using the friends and family package to hire assistants, for failing to follow up on one Lavin recruit, for not keeping CJ, for keeping Amar, for not teaching defense, for not developing the bigs, and for not wearing a tie. And I forgot, for sitting on the scorer's table.

.
Click to expand...
just for the record I was the first one to bring up the sitting on the scorers table last year and st jean doing the coaching :)

And not once have I posted on this thread about firing Mullin
 
It's fair to criticize Mullin. His tenure has been nothing short of a disaster so far. He failed to re-recruit Lavin players which put him even further behind the eight ball than he could have been. He failed to hire someone whom was ever a successful coach as an assistant. (Matt is a great recruiter and I'm hoping that St. Jean is a Nash style beautiful basketball mind). Slice was a big misstep, hell if we wanted a local guy who is resting on his laurels, but would ultimately be a huge bust we could have gotten Fred Hill, Gonzo, or Mike Rice much cheaper. He's game managing is still in its infancy and his line-ups are questionable.

However, before fire him, we have to give him his shot with his players. Lovett, Ponds, and Bashir seems like they can play on a Big East level, everyone else let's cross our fingers and hope.

2018 is going to be a big year for us. It will determine if we are going to be Marquette or DePaul.

Let's right this ship.
Click to expand...

Good points but to be fair, Lovett was a Lavin recruit Sampson would have been nice but who's to say he'd have ever come anyway? The only others were existing players: Amar, Jones, Obekpa and Jordan. Not reasonable to fault Mullin for those. Mullin did pretty well especially considering the time of year, unless you are counting Lavin's best recruit of all time: Briscoe...
Click to expand...

Mussini a Lav kid too
Click to expand...

It's time for a recap, since this fire Mullin idea lasted 5 pages so far, and I'm losing track of it. The firing squad blames Mullin for losses to Del State and LIU, for hiring Slice, for using the friends and family package to hire assistants, for failing to follow up on one Lavin recruit, for not keeping CJ, for keeping Amar, for not teaching defense, for not developing the bigs, and for not wearing a tie. And I forgot, for sitting on the scorer's table.

.
Click to expand...
just for the record I was the first one to bring up the sitting on the scorers table last year and st jean doing the coaching :)

And not once have I posted on this thread about firing Mullin
Click to expand...

I was just throwing everything about Mullin in there. I know it's just a few posters that are laying the blame on Mullin, and it's not you. The scorer's table was nothing compared to sitting in a chair behind the basket in Hawaii last season. Mulin had an interesting quote the other day about how college basketball changed since he played. How there were good teams and atrocious teams back then. Now, there are good to great players throughout division one. Maybe he is realizing what is ahead of him, meaning making this program relevant is about more than some good local kids staying home. It's about getting very good and some great players every single year, and them coaching them up so they can play at a high level on a consistent basis.
 
It's fair to criticize Mullin. His tenure has been nothing short of a disaster so far. He failed to re-recruit Lavin players which put him even further behind the eight ball than he could have been. He failed to hire someone whom was ever a successful coach as an assistant. (Matt is a great recruiter and I'm hoping that St. Jean is a Nash style beautiful basketball mind). Slice was a big misstep, hell if we wanted a local guy who is resting on his laurels, but would ultimately be a huge bust we could have gotten Fred Hill, Gonzo, or Mike Rice much cheaper. He's game managing is still in its infancy and his line-ups are questionable.

However, before fire him, we have to give him his shot with his players. Lovett, Ponds, and Bashir seems like they can play on a Big East level, everyone else let's cross our fingers and hope.

2018 is going to be a big year for us. It will determine if we are going to be Marquette or DePaul.

Let's right this ship.
Click to expand...

Good points but to be fair, Lovett was a Lavin recruit Sampson would have been nice but who's to say he'd have ever come anyway? The only others were existing players: Amar, Jones, Obekpa and Jordan. Not reasonable to fault Mullin for those. Mullin did pretty well especially considering the time of year, unless you are counting Lavin's best recruit of all time: Briscoe...
Click to expand...

Mussini a Lav kid too
Click to expand...

It's time for a recap, since this fire Mullin idea lasted 5 pages so far, and I'm losing track of it. The firing squad blames Mullin for losses to Del State and LIU, for hiring Slice, for using the friends and family package to hire assistants, for failing to follow up on one Lavin recruit, for not keeping CJ, for keeping Amar, for not teaching defense, for not developing the bigs, and for not wearing a tie. And I forgot, for sitting on the scorer's table.

.
Click to expand...
just for the record I was the first one to bring up the sitting on the scorers table last year and st jean doing the coaching :)

And not once have I posted on this thread about firing Mullin
Click to expand...

I think we'd have to go back through the threads to verify that, but I'm on exactly the same page as you and have been since the beginning of signs of trouble.
 
It's fair to criticize Mullin. His tenure has been nothing short of a disaster so far. He failed to re-recruit Lavin players which put him even further behind the eight ball than he could have been. He failed to hire someone whom was ever a successful coach as an assistant. (Matt is a great recruiter and I'm hoping that St. Jean is a Nash style beautiful basketball mind). Slice was a big misstep, hell if we wanted a local guy who is resting on his laurels, but would ultimately be a huge bust we could have gotten Fred Hill, Gonzo, or Mike Rice much cheaper. He's game managing is still in its infancy and his line-ups are questionable.

However, before fire him, we have to give him his shot with his players. Lovett, Ponds, and Bashir seems like they can play on a Big East level, everyone else let's cross our fingers and hope.

2018 is going to be a big year for us. It will determine if we are going to be Marquette or DePaul.

Let's right this ship.
Click to expand...

Good points but to be fair, Lovett was a Lavin recruit Sampson would have been nice but who's to say he'd have ever come anyway? The only others were existing players: Amar, Jones, Obekpa and Jordan. Not reasonable to fault Mullin for those. Mullin did pretty well especially considering the time of year, unless you are counting Lavin's best recruit of all time: Briscoe...
Click to expand...

Mussini a Lav kid too
Click to expand...

It's time for a recap, since this fire Mullin idea lasted 5 pages so far, and I'm losing track of it. The firing squad blames Mullin for losses to Del State and LIU, for hiring Slice, for using the friends and family package to hire assistants, for failing to follow up on one Lavin recruit, for not keeping CJ, for keeping Amar, for not teaching defense, for not developing the bigs, and for not wearing a tie. And I forgot, for sitting on the scorer's table.

.
Click to expand...
just for the record I was the first one to bring up the sitting on the scorers table last year and st jean doing the coaching :)

And not once have I posted on this thread about firing Mullin
Click to expand...

I was just throwing everything about Mullin in there. I know it's just a few posters that are laying the blame on Mullin, and it's not you. The scorer's table was nothing compared to sitting in a chair behind the basket in Hawaii last season. Mulin had an interesting quote the other day about how college basketball changed since he played. How there were good teams and atrocious teams back then. Now, there are good to great players throughout division one. Maybe he is realizing what is ahead of him, meaning making this program relevant is about more than some good local kids staying home. It's about getting very good and some great players every single year, and them coaching them up so they can play at a high level on a consistent basis.
Click to expand...

In Mullin's day, a very good program could get a great player and he would likely stay 4 years. In this era, great players are gone by the end of sophomore season at the latest. This puts pressure on programs to constantly restock with great players, which only a few can do consistently. That's a much taller task than Looie and Lapchick had in terms of recruiting.
 
It's fair to criticize Mullin. His tenure has been nothing short of a disaster so far. He failed to re-recruit Lavin players which put him even further behind the eight ball than he could have been. He failed to hire someone whom was ever a successful coach as an assistant. (Matt is a great recruiter and I'm hoping that St. Jean is a Nash style beautiful basketball mind). Slice was a big misstep, hell if we wanted a local guy who is resting on his laurels, but would ultimately be a huge bust we could have gotten Fred Hill, Gonzo, or Mike Rice much cheaper. He's game managing is still in its infancy and his line-ups are questionable.

However, before fire him, we have to give him his shot with his players. Lovett, Ponds, and Bashir seems like they can play on a Big East level, everyone else let's cross our fingers and hope.

2018 is going to be a big year for us. It will determine if we are going to be Marquette or DePaul.

Let's right this ship.
Click to expand...

Good points but to be fair, Lovett was a Lavin recruit Sampson would have been nice but who's to say he'd have ever come anyway? The only others were existing players: Amar, Jones, Obekpa and Jordan. Not reasonable to fault Mullin for those. Mullin did pretty well especially considering the time of year, unless you are counting Lavin's best recruit of all time: Briscoe...
Click to expand...

Mussini a Lav kid too
Click to expand...

It's time for a recap, since this fire Mullin idea lasted 5 pages so far, and I'm losing track of it. The firing squad blames Mullin for losses to Del State and LIU, for hiring Slice, for using the friends and family package to hire assistants, for failing to follow up on one Lavin recruit, for not keeping CJ, for keeping Amar, for not teaching defense, for not developing the bigs, and for not wearing a tie. And I forgot, for sitting on the scorer's table.

.
Click to expand...
just for the record I was the first one to bring up the sitting on the scorers table last year and st jean doing the coaching :)

And not once have I posted on this thread about firing Mullin
Click to expand...

I think we'd have to go back through the threads to verify that, but I'm on exactly the same page as you and have been since the beginning of signs of trouble.
Click to expand...
I believe this could be ground zero for the scorers table :)

http://redmen.com/forum/4-redmental...dec-22-9pm-cbs-sp-570am.html?start=135#203641
 
Mullin isn't going anywhere, he does deserve the 3 or 4 years that every new college coach gets.
As long as Zack Brown, Clark and Simon are added to this team, and Ponds doesn't leave, they will be a lot better next year. (Lovett already sat out a year, so if he transferred he loses a year so he will stay put).

A team of:
Lovett
Ponds
Brown
Clark
Ahmed

With:
Simon
Owens
Yakwe
Mussini
Off the bench

That's a good team. A team that has Amir and Ellison getting minutes is not.

I'm annoyed like every other SJU fan, but we have to give Mullin a chance.

Anyone realize the couch Lou hasn't been seen at his namesake court recently?
 
It's fair to criticize Mullin. His tenure has been nothing short of a disaster so far. He failed to re-recruit Lavin players which put him even further behind the eight ball than he could have been. He failed to hire someone whom was ever a successful coach as an assistant. (Matt is a great recruiter and I'm hoping that St. Jean is a Nash style beautiful basketball mind). Slice was a big misstep, hell if we wanted a local guy who is resting on his laurels, but would ultimately be a huge bust we could have gotten Fred Hill, Gonzo, or Mike Rice much cheaper. He's game managing is still in its infancy and his line-ups are questionable.

However, before fire him, we have to give him his shot with his players. Lovett, Ponds, and Bashir seems like they can play on a Big East level, everyone else let's cross our fingers and hope.

2018 is going to be a big year for us. It will determine if we are going to be Marquette or DePaul.

Let's right this ship.
Click to expand...

Good points but to be fair, Lovett was a Lavin recruit Sampson would have been nice but who's to say he'd have ever come anyway? The only others were existing players: Amar, Jones, Obekpa and Jordan. Not reasonable to fault Mullin for those. Mullin did pretty well especially considering the time of year, unless you are counting Lavin's best recruit of all time: Briscoe...
Click to expand...

Mussini a Lav kid too
Click to expand...

It's time for a recap, since this fire Mullin idea lasted 5 pages so far, and I'm losing track of it. The firing squad blames Mullin for losses to Del State and LIU, for hiring Slice, for using the friends and family package to hire assistants, for failing to follow up on one Lavin recruit, for not keeping CJ, for keeping Amar, for not teaching defense, for not developing the bigs, and for not wearing a tie. And I forgot, for sitting on the scorer's table.

.
Click to expand...
just for the record I was the first one to bring up the sitting on the scorers table last year and st jean doing the coaching :)

And not once have I posted on this thread about firing Mullin
Click to expand...

I was just throwing everything about Mullin in there. I know it's just a few posters that are laying the blame on Mullin, and it's not you. The scorer's table was nothing compared to sitting in a chair behind the basket in Hawaii last season. Mulin had an interesting quote the other day about how college basketball changed since he played. How there were good teams and atrocious teams back then. Now, there are good to great players throughout division one. Maybe he is realizing what is ahead of him, meaning making this program relevant is about more than some good local kids staying home. It's about getting very good and some great players every single year, and them coaching them up so they can play at a high level on a consistent basis.
Click to expand...

In Mullin's day, a very good program could get a great player and he would likely stay 4 years. In this era, great players are gone by the end of sophomore season at the latest. This puts pressure on programs to constantly restock with great players, which only a few can do consistently. That's a much taller task than Looie and Lapchick had in terms of recruiting.
Click to expand...

Was just thinking about how frustrating this is for fans and for the HC: You get a relatively highly ranked kid(IE Harkless) who you think you'll have a few years, and he has a nice year and bolts. You get a not so high ranked kid(IE Sima) who you think you'll have for 4 years and he splits early because he feels he deserves more PT(or for whatever reason). I realize that it's become part of the college basketball landscape, but because we've been down for so long I find myself constantly waiting for the other shoe to drop with one or more of these kids.
 
It's fair to criticize Mullin. His tenure has been nothing short of a disaster so far. He failed to re-recruit Lavin players which put him even further behind the eight ball than he could have been. He failed to hire someone whom was ever a successful coach as an assistant. (Matt is a great recruiter and I'm hoping that St. Jean is a Nash style beautiful basketball mind). Slice was a big misstep, hell if we wanted a local guy who is resting on his laurels, but would ultimately be a huge bust we could have gotten Fred Hill, Gonzo, or Mike Rice much cheaper. He's game managing is still in its infancy and his line-ups are questionable.

However, before fire him, we have to give him his shot with his players. Lovett, Ponds, and Bashir seems like they can play on a Big East level, everyone else let's cross our fingers and hope.

2018 is going to be a big year for us. It will determine if we are going to be Marquette or DePaul.

Let's right this ship.
Click to expand...

Good points but to be fair, Lovett was a Lavin recruit Sampson would have been nice but who's to say he'd have ever come anyway? The only others were existing players: Amar, Jones, Obekpa and Jordan. Not reasonable to fault Mullin for those. Mullin did pretty well especially considering the time of year, unless you are counting Lavin's best recruit of all time: Briscoe...
Click to expand...

Mussini a Lav kid too
Click to expand...

It's time for a recap, since this fire Mullin idea lasted 5 pages so far, and I'm losing track of it. The firing squad blames Mullin for losses to Del State and LIU, for hiring Slice, for using the friends and family package to hire assistants, for failing to follow up on one Lavin recruit, for not keeping CJ, for keeping Amar, for not teaching defense, for not developing the bigs, and for not wearing a tie. And I forgot, for sitting on the scorer's table.

.
Click to expand...
just for the record I was the first one to bring up the sitting on the scorers table last year and st jean doing the coaching :)

And not once have I posted on this thread about firing Mullin
Click to expand...

I was just throwing everything about Mullin in there. I know it's just a few posters that are laying the blame on Mullin, and it's not you. The scorer's table was nothing compared to sitting in a chair behind the basket in Hawaii last season. Mulin had an interesting quote the other day about how college basketball changed since he played. How there were good teams and atrocious teams back then. Now, there are good to great players throughout division one. Maybe he is realizing what is ahead of him, meaning making this program relevant is about more than some good local kids staying home. It's about getting very good and some great players every single year, and them coaching them up so they can play at a high level on a consistent basis.
Click to expand...

In Mullin's day, a very good program could get a great player and he would likely stay 4 years. In this era, great players are gone by the end of sophomore season at the latest. This puts pressure on programs to constantly restock with great players, which only a few can do consistently. That's a much taller task than Looie and Lapchick had in terms of recruiting.
Click to expand...

Was just thinking about how frustrating this is for fans and for the HC: You get a relatively highly ranked kid(IE Harkless) who you think you'll have a few years, and he has a nice year and bolts. You get a not so high ranked kid(IE Sima) who you think you'll have for 4 years and he splits early because he feels he deserves more PT(or for whatever reason). I realize that it's become part of the college basketball landscape, but because we've been down for so long I find myself constantly waiting for the other shoe to drop with one or more of these kids.
Click to expand...

No question. I follow SJU to get away from the stress of work, where I deal with the very same things - losing great talent you thought you'd have for a long time and new talent you've been investing a lot to develop. Thanks for framing it that way - it makes following SJU even more depressing. :)
 
It's fair to criticize Mullin. His tenure has been nothing short of a disaster so far. He failed to re-recruit Lavin players which put him even further behind the eight ball than he could have been. He failed to hire someone whom was ever a successful coach as an assistant. (Matt is a great recruiter and I'm hoping that St. Jean is a Nash style beautiful basketball mind). Slice was a big misstep, hell if we wanted a local guy who is resting on his laurels, but would ultimately be a huge bust we could have gotten Fred Hill, Gonzo, or Mike Rice much cheaper. He's game managing is still in its infancy and his line-ups are questionable.

However, before fire him, we have to give him his shot with his players. Lovett, Ponds, and Bashir seems like they can play on a Big East level, everyone else let's cross our fingers and hope.

2018 is going to be a big year for us. It will determine if we are going to be Marquette or DePaul.

Let's right this ship.
Click to expand...

Good points but to be fair, Lovett was a Lavin recruit Sampson would have been nice but who's to say he'd have ever come anyway? The only others were existing players: Amar, Jones, Obekpa and Jordan. Not reasonable to fault Mullin for those. Mullin did pretty well especially considering the time of year, unless you are counting Lavin's best recruit of all time: Briscoe...
Click to expand...

Mussini a Lav kid too
Click to expand...

It's time for a recap, since this fire Mullin idea lasted 5 pages so far, and I'm losing track of it. The firing squad blames Mullin for losses to Del State and LIU, for hiring Slice, for using the friends and family package to hire assistants, for failing to follow up on one Lavin recruit, for not keeping CJ, for keeping Amar, for not teaching defense, for not developing the bigs, and for not wearing a tie. And I forgot, for sitting on the scorer's table.

.
Click to expand...
just for the record I was the first one to bring up the sitting on the scorers table last year and st jean doing the coaching :)

And not once have I posted on this thread about firing Mullin
Click to expand...

I was just throwing everything about Mullin in there. I know it's just a few posters that are laying the blame on Mullin, and it's not you. The scorer's table was nothing compared to sitting in a chair behind the basket in Hawaii last season. Mulin had an interesting quote the other day about how college basketball changed since he played. How there were good teams and atrocious teams back then. Now, there are good to great players throughout division one. Maybe he is realizing what is ahead of him, meaning making this program relevant is about more than some good local kids staying home. It's about getting very good and some great players every single year, and them coaching them up so they can play at a high level on a consistent basis.
Click to expand...

In Mullin's day, a very good program could get a great player and he would likely stay 4 years. In this era, great players are gone by the end of sophomore season at the latest. This puts pressure on programs to constantly restock with great players, which only a few can do consistently. That's a much taller task than Looie and Lapchick had in terms of recruiting.
Click to expand...

Was just thinking about how frustrating this is for fans and for the HC: You get a relatively highly ranked kid(IE Harkless) who you think you'll have a few years, and he has a nice year and bolts. You get a not so high ranked kid(IE Sima) who you think you'll have for 4 years and he splits early because he feels he deserves more PT(or for whatever reason). I realize that it's become part of the college basketball landscape, but because we've been down for so long I find myself constantly waiting for the other shoe to drop with one or more of these kids.
Click to expand...

All what you say is true. I have been behind the coach.But I said give him till next yr.
If no results then let the criticism begin It is just that we all have waited so long and our expectation were unrealistic But programs like Duke Kansas Kentucky Villanova
etc do it yr in and yr out As far as Louie goes yes it was diff but he still had big challenges AND KEPT THE GOOD PLAYERS HOME FOR THEY WERE STILL GOING AWAY TO SCHOOL. But I do agree we should all let this process play out although hard Rome was not built in a day or should I say several seasons Hey I just enjoy that we have been fighting and in every game from where we have come that is a big plus. BUT SOONER OR LATER CM will have to pay the piper if he does not get us on top
 
It's fair to criticize Mullin. His tenure has been nothing short of a disaster so far. He failed to re-recruit Lavin players which put him even further behind the eight ball than he could have been. He failed to hire someone whom was ever a successful coach as an assistant. (Matt is a great recruiter and I'm hoping that St. Jean is a Nash style beautiful basketball mind). Slice was a big misstep, hell if we wanted a local guy who is resting on his laurels, but would ultimately be a huge bust we could have gotten Fred Hill, Gonzo, or Mike Rice much cheaper. He's game managing is still in its infancy and his line-ups are questionable.

However, before fire him, we have to give him his shot with his players. Lovett, Ponds, and Bashir seems like they can play on a Big East level, everyone else let's cross our fingers and hope.

2018 is going to be a big year for us. It will determine if we are going to be Marquette or DePaul.

Let's right this ship.
Click to expand...

Good points but to be fair, Lovett was a Lavin recruit Sampson would have been nice but who's to say he'd have ever come anyway? The only others were existing players: Amar, Jones, Obekpa and Jordan. Not reasonable to fault Mullin for those. Mullin did pretty well especially considering the time of year, unless you are counting Lavin's best recruit of all time: Briscoe...
Click to expand...

Mussini a Lav kid too
Click to expand...

It's time for a recap, since this fire Mullin idea lasted 5 pages so far, and I'm losing track of it. The firing squad blames Mullin for losses to Del State and LIU, for hiring Slice, for using the friends and family package to hire assistants, for failing to follow up on one Lavin recruit, for not keeping CJ, for keeping Amar, for not teaching defense, for not developing the bigs, and for not wearing a tie. And I forgot, for sitting on the scorer's table.

.
Click to expand...
just for the record I was the first one to bring up the sitting on the scorers table last year and st jean doing the coaching :)

And not once have I posted on this thread about firing Mullin
Click to expand...

I was just throwing everything about Mullin in there. I know it's just a few posters that are laying the blame on Mullin, and it's not you. The scorer's table was nothing compared to sitting in a chair behind the basket in Hawaii last season. Mulin had an interesting quote the other day about how college basketball changed since he played. How there were good teams and atrocious teams back then. Now, there are good to great players throughout division one. Maybe he is realizing what is ahead of him, meaning making this program relevant is about more than some good local kids staying home. It's about getting very good and some great players every single year, and them coaching them up so they can play at a high level on a consistent basis.
Click to expand...

In Mullin's day, a very good program could get a great player and he would likely stay 4 years. In this era, great players are gone by the end of sophomore season at the latest. This puts pressure on programs to constantly restock with great players, which only a few can do consistently. That's a much taller task than Looie and Lapchick had in terms of recruiting.
Click to expand...

Was just thinking about how frustrating this is for fans and for the HC: You get a relatively highly ranked kid(IE Harkless) who you think you'll have a few years, and he has a nice year and bolts. You get a not so high ranked kid(IE Sima) who you think you'll have for 4 years and he splits early because he feels he deserves more PT(or for whatever reason). I realize that it's become part of the college basketball landscape, but because we've been down for so long I find myself constantly waiting for the other shoe to drop with one or more of these kids.
Click to expand...

So true. So many talented kids develop inflated sense of self, have self interested "advisors" & "going to the League" is front and center all the time. I can appreciate some kids come from tough economic circumstances and need $$. That said, the aspirations just don't line up with reality. Unfortunately we live in an instant gratification world & many kids will continue to make crazy decisions. If a kid is ready, by all means go, but just look at list of players overseas & the degree of difficulty to "go to the League" is steep.

I worry about kids who have gone to multiple high schools, have been crowned "can't miss" by advisors or even parents, can't stay in one place very long, but are long shots to be NBA players. Building a program with solid upperclass kids is so difficult, especially for programs trying to catch up. The expectation to win immediately is real all too often. I would love to see our talented backcourt duo play together for four years, but we'll see.
 
It's fair to criticize Mullin. His tenure has been nothing short of a disaster so far. He failed to re-recruit Lavin players which put him even further behind the eight ball than he could have been. He failed to hire someone whom was ever a successful coach as an assistant. (Matt is a great recruiter and I'm hoping that St. Jean is a Nash style beautiful basketball mind). Slice was a big misstep, hell if we wanted a local guy who is resting on his laurels, but would ultimately be a huge bust we could have gotten Fred Hill, Gonzo, or Mike Rice much cheaper. He's game managing is still in its infancy and his line-ups are questionable.

However, before fire him, we have to give him his shot with his players. Lovett, Ponds, and Bashir seems like they can play on a Big East level, everyone else let's cross our fingers and hope.

2018 is going to be a big year for us. It will determine if we are going to be Marquette or DePaul.

Let's right this ship.
Click to expand...

Good points but to be fair, Lovett was a Lavin recruit Sampson would have been nice but who's to say he'd have ever come anyway? The only others were existing players: Amar, Jones, Obekpa and Jordan. Not reasonable to fault Mullin for those. Mullin did pretty well especially considering the time of year, unless you are counting Lavin's best recruit of all time: Briscoe...
Click to expand...

Mussini a Lav kid too
Click to expand...

It's time for a recap, since this fire Mullin idea lasted 5 pages so far, and I'm losing track of it. The firing squad blames Mullin for losses to Del State and LIU, for hiring Slice, for using the friends and family package to hire assistants, for failing to follow up on one Lavin recruit, for not keeping CJ, for keeping Amar, for not teaching defense, for not developing the bigs, and for not wearing a tie. And I forgot, for sitting on the scorer's table.

.
Click to expand...
just for the record I was the first one to bring up the sitting on the scorers table last year and st jean doing the coaching :)

And not once have I posted on this thread about firing Mullin
Click to expand...

I was just throwing everything about Mullin in there. I know it's just a few posters that are laying the blame on Mullin, and it's not you. The scorer's table was nothing compared to sitting in a chair behind the basket in Hawaii last season. Mulin had an interesting quote the other day about how college basketball changed since he played. How there were good teams and atrocious teams back then. Now, there are good to great players throughout division one. Maybe he is realizing what is ahead of him, meaning making this program relevant is about more than some good local kids staying home. It's about getting very good and some great players every single year, and them coaching them up so they can play at a high level on a consistent basis.
Click to expand...

In Mullin's day, a very good program could get a great player and he would likely stay 4 years. In this era, great players are gone by the end of sophomore season at the latest. This puts pressure on programs to constantly restock with great players, which only a few can do consistently. That's a much taller task than Looie and Lapchick had in terms of recruiting.
Click to expand...

Was just thinking about how frustrating this is for fans and for the HC: You get a relatively highly ranked kid(IE Harkless) who you think you'll have a few years, and he has a nice year and bolts. You get a not so high ranked kid(IE Sima) who you think you'll have for 4 years and he splits early because he feels he deserves more PT(or for whatever reason). I realize that it's become part of the college basketball landscape, but because we've been down for so long I find myself constantly waiting for the other shoe to drop with one or more of these kids.
Click to expand...

So true. So many talented kids develop inflated sense of self, have self interested "advisors" & "going to the League" is front and center all the time. I can appreciate some kids come from tough economic circumstances and need $$. That said, the aspirations just don't line up with reality. Unfortunately we live in an instant gratification world & many kids will continue to make crazy decisions. If a kid is ready, by all means go, but just look at list of players overseas & the degree of difficulty to "go to the League" is steep.

I worry about kids who have gone to multiple high schools, have been crowned "can't miss" by advisors or even parents, can't stay in one place very long, but are long shots to be NBA players. Building a program with solid upperclass kids is so difficult, especially for programs trying to catch up. The expectation to win immediately is real all too often. I would love to see our talented backcourt duo play together for four years, but doubt it, especially in one case.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a not so veiled reference to Marcus Lovett. I just hope we can enjoy our backcourt for at least one year after this.
 
It's fair to criticize Mullin. His tenure has been nothing short of a disaster so far. He failed to re-recruit Lavin players which put him even further behind the eight ball than he could have been. He failed to hire someone whom was ever a successful coach as an assistant. (Matt is a great recruiter and I'm hoping that St. Jean is a Nash style beautiful basketball mind). Slice was a big misstep, hell if we wanted a local guy who is resting on his laurels, but would ultimately be a huge bust we could have gotten Fred Hill, Gonzo, or Mike Rice much cheaper. He's game managing is still in its infancy and his line-ups are questionable.

However, before fire him, we have to give him his shot with his players. Lovett, Ponds, and Bashir seems like they can play on a Big East level, everyone else let's cross our fingers and hope.

2018 is going to be a big year for us. It will determine if we are going to be Marquette or DePaul.

Let's right this ship.
Click to expand...

Good points but to be fair, Lovett was a Lavin recruit Sampson would have been nice but who's to say he'd have ever come anyway? The only others were existing players: Amar, Jones, Obekpa and Jordan. Not reasonable to fault Mullin for those. Mullin did pretty well especially considering the time of year, unless you are counting Lavin's best recruit of all time: Briscoe...
Click to expand...

Mussini a Lav kid too
Click to expand...

It's time for a recap, since this fire Mullin idea lasted 5 pages so far, and I'm losing track of it. The firing squad blames Mullin for losses to Del State and LIU, for hiring Slice, for using the friends and family package to hire assistants, for failing to follow up on one Lavin recruit, for not keeping CJ, for keeping Amar, for not teaching defense, for not developing the bigs, and for not wearing a tie. And I forgot, for sitting on the scorer's table.

.
Click to expand...
just for the record I was the first one to bring up the sitting on the scorers table last year and st jean doing the coaching :)

And not once have I posted on this thread about firing Mullin
Click to expand...

I was just throwing everything about Mullin in there. I know it's just a few posters that are laying the blame on Mullin, and it's not you. The scorer's table was nothing compared to sitting in a chair behind the basket in Hawaii last season. Mulin had an interesting quote the other day about how college basketball changed since he played. How there were good teams and atrocious teams back then. Now, there are good to great players throughout division one. Maybe he is realizing what is ahead of him, meaning making this program relevant is about more than some good local kids staying home. It's about getting very good and some great players every single year, and them coaching them up so they can play at a high level on a consistent basis.
Click to expand...

In Mullin's day, a very good program could get a great player and he would likely stay 4 years. In this era, great players are gone by the end of sophomore season at the latest. This puts pressure on programs to constantly restock with great players, which only a few can do consistently. That's a much taller task than Looie and Lapchick had in terms of recruiting.
Click to expand...

Was just thinking about how frustrating this is for fans and for the HC: You get a relatively highly ranked kid(IE Harkless) who you think you'll have a few years, and he has a nice year and bolts. You get a not so high ranked kid(IE Sima) who you think you'll have for 4 years and he splits early because he feels he deserves more PT(or for whatever reason). I realize that it's become part of the college basketball landscape, but because we've been down for so long I find myself constantly waiting for the other shoe to drop with one or more of these kids.
Click to expand...

So true. So many talented kids develop inflated sense of self, have self interested "advisors" & "going to the League" is front and center all the time. I can appreciate some kids come from tough economic circumstances and need $$. That said, the aspirations just don't line up with reality. Unfortunately we live in an instant gratification world & many kids will continue to make crazy decisions. If a kid is ready, by all means go, but just look at list of players overseas & the degree of difficulty to "go to the League" is steep.

I worry about kids who have gone to multiple high schools, have been crowned "can't miss" by advisors or even parents, can't stay in one place very long, but are long shots to be NBA players. Building a program with solid upperclass kids is so difficult, especially for programs trying to catch up. The expectation to win immediately is real all too often. I would love to see our talented backcourt duo play together for four years, but doubt it, especially in one case.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a not so veiled reference to Marcus Lovett. I just hope we can enjoy our backcourt for at least one year after this.
Click to expand...

Me too.
 
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