Fire Lavin!
- Thread starter Ilzion
- Start date
Let. Dunlap. Go. He's. Never. Coming. Back.
Another thing I hate about the whole Dunlap argument, is where is the proof that Dunlap was amazing at X's and O's?
Whose to say that the 2010 team playing well wasn't because of Dunlap but just because they were seniors and knew how to play with each other?
But that's St. John's fans for you, when we don't like our coach we pretend like the assistant coach that left us is the reincarnation of john wooden.
Whose to say that the 2010 team playing well wasn't because of Dunlap but just because they were seniors and knew how to play with each other?
But that's St. John's fans for you, when we don't like our coach we pretend like the assistant coach that left us is the reincarnation of john wooden.
redstorm80
Well-known member
Well, there is enough proof out there that Mike Dunlap is a brilliant basketball mind, but agree with what you said
Dinkins! You made me laugh hard. The picture of Cosby nailed exactly how I felt after reading the post.
Look.....I definitely want to part ways with Lavin. And, I do think Dunlap is an excellent Xs and Os man. That said, he has the charisma of a toad and could never recruit.
Besides.......HE IS NEVER COMING BACK!!! Let it go.
Look.....I definitely want to part ways with Lavin. And, I do think Dunlap is an excellent Xs and Os man. That said, he has the charisma of a toad and could never recruit.
Besides.......HE IS NEVER COMING BACK!!! Let it go.
I agree with you that it's time to let Dunlap go. However, I don't think there can be a substantial mitigation of how impressive Dunlap is strategically in general, or how important he was to that 10/11 team. As RedStorm80 pointed out, he is universally recognized within the industry, and has been hired by the likes of Arizona and 2 NBA teams. That doesn't happen by accident. In terms of his impact on us that first year, if you watched the cohesion and precision with which that team played in comparison to (1) those same players' first 3 years with Norm, or (2) how SJU teams with more talent have played since his departure, there's a stark contrast. It's circumstantial evidence for sure, but it paints a picture in favor of Dunlap's X/O ability.
That said, the 10/11 season was a perfect storm for Dunlap because, as we found out the next 2 years (last with us, then with the Bobcats) he has his shortcomings as well. Being a head coach is a lot more than game strategy, including relating to and motivating young players, handling adversity in the media, etc. That first year he could just focus on strategy with a group of dedicated seniors willing to buy in, because Lavin was there to handle the multitude of other responsibilities that come with running a program.
I know you weren't hating on Dunlap - and you raise a valid question. I also think it's important to remember that just because someone is strong X/O does not mean they will be an effective coach, and that while Lavin is not the best X/O he excels in a lot of other ways that are critical to a program's success. But in terms of a narrow review of Dunlap as a tactician, and his impact on that 10/11 team, I think the results are pretty overwhelming.
Out of bounds plays are very complex. It takes years of study, several post-graduate degrees, an internship and a residency just to get down the basics. The coaches who do well at it also usually have expertise in astrophysics. I think you should all cut our guys some slack for not having a sophisticated plan to inbounds the ball against pressure.
beast of the east
Active member
Geez, I always thought that managing the clock in the last two minutes required a PhD. After all, in all the years I've watched SJU basketball, there wasn't a single squad that could turn the last 3 minutes of a game into a 30 minute affair by managing the clock well. This isn't just on Lavin. The must be a rulebook somewhere in the athletic department that says all fans must be home on time after attending SJU games, because we simply have been historically abysmal at it.
LOL Rollie Massimino used to make the last 3 minutes last a half hour and Lou made the last 3 minutes last 2 minutes in come from behind situations.. A friend of mind would be calculated points we were behind and time remaining and if we were like down 10 points with like 8 minutes remaining he would say 'There are not enough possessions".
I think this season is excatly what we can expect with Lavin. We will always have good talent, but we won't spend much (or any time ranked). He is not going to get UCLA talent in Queens and is not a good enough coach to win with this talent.
Boy, recruiting and media skills aside, he is a REALLY lousy coach! I think the Lavin era will be no less frustrating than those in recent years.
I am very familiar with the type of responses I will receive......essentially absolving Lavin from all responsibilty and placing it on his players. I will wait patiently, as even you staunch Lavin supporters will grow tired of the incompetency after a few years.
By the way, the first time (in 2015) that he says we are the youngest team in America, I am going to throw up. We will be because he recruited just one player and lost him to a conference rival (yes, yes, I know this wasn't his fault). The Almighty Slick Steve will spin this too.
Boy, recruiting and media skills aside, he is a REALLY lousy coach! I think the Lavin era will be no less frustrating than those in recent years.
I am very familiar with the type of responses I will receive......essentially absolving Lavin from all responsibilty and placing it on his players. I will wait patiently, as even you staunch Lavin supporters will grow tired of the incompetency after a few years.
By the way, the first time (in 2015) that he says we are the youngest team in America, I am going to throw up. We will be because he recruited just one player and lost him to a conference rival (yes, yes, I know this wasn't his fault). The Almighty Slick Steve will spin this too.
beast of the east
Active member
This doesn't really belong here, but if I place it on the game threads it will be lost. On my way in, I overheard a ticket holder asking at the gate how he could get to see his brother who is coaching one of the teams. I had my ticket scanned at exactly the same time, so as I stepped in and he seemed lost, I told him I overheard him say his brother was a coach. He was friendly, and said his brother coaches St. John's and is Steve Lavin. He couldn't have possibly been more normal, a regular guy, no pretenses. I immediately offered my condolences for his dad passing away, and he was appreciative, and said, "you know, my dad played at Madison Square Garden". I said "That's terrific, I know your dad was one of the best players ever in the Bay area." He was visiting for the week, and lives in the bay area himself. He's not a silver tongue, just a regular good guy. I mentioned what a huge game it was, and he said, "Don't worry, I packed 3 wins with me." I said I'd take two, save one for the NCAA tournament. He smiled and said, don't worry, I have about 9 in total. I helped him find his gate as we went up the escalators, and wished him a good trip to NYC.
Look, right now we want to crap on Steve as a silver tongued manipulator who will say anything that he thinks is the right thing to say. I can't dispute or change anyone who has that opinion (my karma has taken a -35 hit in the past 2 weeks because I responded to the irrational -- as if I care anyway). But I can say, even if family members raised in the same household can be very different, Steve's brother John came across as a really good, really regular guy. Unfortunately, it was the highlight of my day at MSG.
Have a good offseason guys. I'm not one to cry in my beer, so I passed on Stouts. Thanks to all of you who I've gotten to know better during the course of this season. So many good guys on here, and I'm rather fortunate to know a good number of you.
Look, right now we want to crap on Steve as a silver tongued manipulator who will say anything that he thinks is the right thing to say. I can't dispute or change anyone who has that opinion (my karma has taken a -35 hit in the past 2 weeks because I responded to the irrational -- as if I care anyway). But I can say, even if family members raised in the same household can be very different, Steve's brother John came across as a really good, really regular guy. Unfortunately, it was the highlight of my day at MSG.
Have a good offseason guys. I'm not one to cry in my beer, so I passed on Stouts. Thanks to all of you who I've gotten to know better during the course of this season. So many good guys on here, and I'm rather fortunate to know a good number of you.
jumbo_peanuts
Active member
13-26 from the free throw line....blame lavin
STJ11Redmen
Active member
When free throw shooting has been a bugaboo for Lavin's teams during his entire tenure, yes he does deserve blame for that.