Facilities Development

[beast of the east]

I probably haven't been on campus in 30 years. Are there any other facilities that need upgrading?

If the funding was there, I say you bury the basketball arena and put something over it to save space. Now all we need is $3 billion. Wouldn't be so steamy in there either if it were underground.

You should really stop on campus on one of your trips to New York.  If in warmer weather, stroll around, especially close to dusk.   The campus has been built up significantly.    There is a baseball stadium, and also a lacrosse field under which a parking garage was built so that we wouldn't lose spaces adjacent to CA.    Bent Hall is now dominated by Tobin signage, and it looks cool at night.  D'Angelo Hall is a spectacular grade A building that tower over the former football field with gorgeous views of queens in the distance.

There are plenty of benches, fountains, relfecting pools.   The new chapel is beautiful.  So much good its hard to describe it in one paragraph.

 

[fuchsia]

I probably haven't been on campus in 30 years. Are there any other facilities that need upgrading?

If the funding was there, I say you bury the basketball arena and put something over it to save space. Now all we need is $3 billion. Wouldn't be so steamy in there either if it were underground.

I was there for the Columbia game a few years ago thanks to Panther.  Reading all these posts I have the impression that we have outdated training and fitness space below the Carnesecca floor.  If we build not a new arena but a new Fitness and Development space with room for all coaches'  offices and team conference rooms attached to Carnesecca, do we then have space to reconfigure Carnesecca by dropping the court down one floor and realigning seating?  I have an affinity for Cameron and The Pit at UNM and think Carnesecca could be equivalent. 

Also, is there more pay-off from setting up a subway to campus shuttle service (that charges the same but you get BB ticket discounts when you ride the shuttle) which builds an incentive for game attendance?

 

[beast of the east]

I probably haven't been on campus in 30 years. Are there any other facilities that need upgrading?

If the funding was there, I say you bury the basketball arena and put something over it to save space. Now all we need is $3 billion. Wouldn't be so steamy in there either if it were underground.

I was there for the Columbia game a few years ago thanks to Panther.  Reading all these posts I have the impression that we have outdated training and fitness space below the Carnesecca floor.  If we build not a new arena but a new Fitness and Development space with room for all coaches'  offices and team conference rooms attached to Carnesecca, do we then have space to reconfigure Carnesecca by dropping the court down one floor and realigning seating?  I have an affinity for Cameron and The Pit at UNM and think Carnesecca could be equivalent. 

Also, is there more pay-off from setting up a subway to campus shuttle service (that charges the same but you get BB ticket discounts when you ride the shuttle) which builds an incentive for game attendance?

Sounds more expensive than expanding upwards

 

[ohiofan]

You guys have absolutely worn out this topic, to the extent that I am looking for a tall building to jump from.

 

[austour]

You guys have absolutely worn out this topic, to the extent that I am looking for a tall building to jump from.
 

Sorry, Carnesecca's not tall enough.  Gonna need a bigger building.

 

[paultzman]

NM

 

[ohiofan]

NM

I saw what you posted before you deleted it and I agree. /media/kunena/emoticons/sideways.png

 

[Alumni Hall]

I probably haven't been on campus in 30 years. Are there any other facilities that need upgrading?

If the funding was there, I say you bury the basketball arena and put something over it to save space. Now all we need is $3 billion. Wouldn't be so steamy in there either if it were underground.

I was there for the Columbia game a few years ago thanks to Panther.  Reading all these posts I have the impression that we have outdated training and fitness space below the Carnesecca floor.  If we build not a new arena but a new Fitness and Development space with room for all coaches'  offices and team conference rooms attached to Carnesecca, do we then have space to reconfigure Carnesecca by dropping the court down one floor and realigning seating?  I have an affinity for Cameron and The Pit at UNM and think Carnesecca could be equivalent. 

Also, is there more pay-off from setting up a subway to campus shuttle service (that charges the same but you get BB ticket discounts when you ride the shuttle) which builds an incentive for game attendance?

the training rooms, equipment room and weight rooms and locker rooms are on the court level. There is no level below the court. Remember that Carnesecca Arena (Alumni Hall) was dug out of the old Hillcrest Golf Course’ water hole. That’s why the court and basement facilities are below ground and always used to flood out with a few feet of water during big storms. What is under the east end of the court and in those small team areas (which used to be the swimming pool) is the steam heating system with two huge heating systems that supply heat to both Carnesecca and Bent Hall. 
An option that was looked at in the late 1990’s was to RAISE the court UP one level and utilizing the area where the court is now for team rooms and indoor practice areas. They looked at turning the court 90 degrees so it would run north south instead of the east west configuration that it is now. (Butlers Hinkle was changed this way to get more seating). They looked at blowing out the walls where the banners are presently and putting in seating to make a real 4 section arena. BUT this required the structures roof also to be raised and then the engineers found out you could not build on top of the old pool and Little Theater. So all plans were scrapped.
‘Also after the 84-85 and 85-86 successful seasons, Fr Cahill did approach the athletic department and asked about now was the time to do a total redo of Alumni Hall, but the coaching staff thought that would preclude us leaving MSG. This was around the time when BC left the Robert’s Center, UCONN planned Gampel, Villanova built their DuPont, Pitt looked at leaving Fitzgerald.
 

 

[RedStormNC]

AJ Hidell is awesome 

 

[redstorm89]

good information

 

[bamafan]

AJ you should never have given the blueprint to where the heat is supplied to CA. I am very afraid of what mjm might do. Just hope he doesn't get caught. /media/kunena/emoticons/wink.png/media/kunena/emoticons/smile.png

 

[19854ever]

AJ great info as always. What about in 2008, why were chair backs only done on one side of the lower level at the time? 

 

 

[Alumni Hall]

As was stated correctly previously, that would have necessitated another loss of 400 seats

 

[19854ever]

Thank you aj as always. 

 

[beast of the east]

I probably haven't been on campus in 30 years. Are there any other facilities that need upgrading?

If the funding was there, I say you bury the basketball arena and put something over it to save space. Now all we need is $3 billion. Wouldn't be so steamy in there either if it were underground.

I was there for the Columbia game a few years ago thanks to Panther.  Reading all these posts I have the impression that we have outdated training and fitness space below the Carnesecca floor.  If we build not a new arena but a new Fitness and Development space with room for all coaches'  offices and team conference rooms attached to Carnesecca, do we then have space to reconfigure Carnesecca by dropping the court down one floor and realigning seating?  I have an affinity for Cameron and The Pit at UNM and think Carnesecca could be equivalent. 

Also, is there more pay-off from setting up a subway to campus shuttle service (that charges the same but you get BB ticket discounts when you ride the shuttle) which builds an incentive for game attendance?

the training rooms, equipment room and weight rooms and locker rooms are on the court level. There is no level below the court. Remember that Carnesecca Arena (Alumni Hall) was dug out of the old Hillcrest Golf Course’ water hole. That’s why the court and basement facilities are below ground and always used to flood out with a few feet of water during big storms. What is under the east end of the court and in those small team areas (which used to be the swimming pool) is the steam heating system with two huge heating systems that supply heat to both Carnesecca and Bent Hall. 
An option that was looked at in the late 1990’s was to RAISE the court UP one level and utilizing the area where the court is now for team rooms and indoor practice areas. They looked at turning the court 90 degrees so it would run north south instead of the east west configuration that it is now. (Butlers Hinkle was changed this way to get more seating). They looked at blowing out the walls where the banners are presently and putting in seating to make a real 4 section arena. BUT this required the structures roof also to be raised and then the engineers found out you could not build on top of the old pool and Little Theater. So all plans were scrapped.
‘Also after the 84-85 and 85-86 successful seasons, Fr Cahill did approach the athletic department and asked about now was the time to do a total redo of Alumni Hall, but the coaching staff thought that would preclude us leaving MSG. This was around the time when BC left the Robert’s Center, UCONN planned Gampel, Villanova built their DuPont, Pitt looked at leaving Fitzgerald.

 

Thanks for some very detailed information that few few people (I'm not one of them) would know.   I know all of that in broad strokes.   Anyone who ever used the gym as a student knows the corridors downstairs are basically on the perimeter, with some interior rooms within the perimter (at least on the south side of the building.

I know you've done this before, but can you speak to the condition of the facilities, and the necessity to improve them.   I believe the plan will need at least $15 million, and that's without any changes to the arena.

What do you think needs to be done, and how do you think our current facilities compare to the rest of the Big East and with competitive programs?

Is it fair to express that a coach here should be expected to recruit the highest grade talent without improving facilities? 

 

[Knight]

Beast-
Is it fair to express that a coach here should be expected to recruit the highest grade talent without improving facilities? 

if the coach cashes his very generous paycheck, YES!

 

[beast of the east]

Beast-
Is it fair to express that a coach here should be expected to recruit the highest grade talent without improving facilities? 

if the coach cashes his very generous paycheck, YES!

I'll answer this with a hypothetical.   You are an office manager.   The stakeholders hold you accountable for not attracting the best talent when the office is horribly deficient, the equipment is old, and the place doesn't offer all the amenities other offices offer.

This is a real consideration.   I had a crappy basement office for a long time (almost 20 years).   I couldn't hire good talent locally because of that and had to come up with creative ways.   When I moved to a great neigherhood and a grade A building, my rent tripled, but I was able to hire better local talent.

However, I couldn't compete even on an equal salary basis with companies that had awesome offices, amenities like lunch everyday, kegs for after work, game rooms, on and on.   Didn't matter what my salary was, the type of people Google hires were never available to me, even if I paid the same salary.

So to your point 100,000 % what the coach makes has zero impact on a recruit deciding why to come here.

In our case, what they get in Mike Anderson is a man they can identify with, who is a successful family man as his everyone on his staff, who has a history of developing talent, and who understands where they came from and where they can be headed with a solid education.     

However, that only gets you so far.   Just like my personal example, recruits are very visual and definitely consider training facilities, weight rooms, even the dorms they live in.   To deny that is just wrong.

I'm certain we are telling recruits and honestly, that improvements are being planned.   Still that puts us behind schools that already have improvements

 

 

[Knight]

Beast-
Is it fair to express that a coach here should be expected to recruit the highest grade talent without improving facilities? 

if the coach cashes his very generous paycheck, YES!

I'll answer this with a hypothetical.   You are an office manager.   The stakeholders hold you accountable for not attracting the best talent when the office is horribly deficient, the equipment is old, and the place doesn't offer all the amenities other offices offer.

This is a real consideration.   I had a crappy basement office for a long time (almost 20 years).   I couldn't hire good talent locally because of that and had to come up with creative ways.   When I moved to a great neigherhood and a grade A building, my rent tripled, but I was able to hire better local talent.

However, I couldn't compete even on an equal salary basis with companies that had awesome offices, amenities like lunch everyday, kegs for after work, game rooms, on and on.   Didn't matter what my salary was, the type of people Google hires were never available to me, even if I paid the same salary.

So to your point 100,000 % what the coach makes has zero impact on a recruit deciding why to come here.

In our case, what they get in Mike Anderson is a man they can identify with, who is a successful family man as his everyone on his staff, who has a history of developing talent, and who understands where they came from and where they can be headed with a solid education.     

However, that only gets you so far.   Just like my personal example, recruits are very visual and definitely consider training facilities, weight rooms, even the dorms they live in.   To deny that is just wrong.

I'm certain we are telling recruits and honestly, that improvements are being planned.   Still that puts us behind schools that already have improvements


 

All very true, but he cashed the check. It’s on him.
What is Anderson doing to change the facilities? Is he intimately working with Cragg for an upgrade to facilities?
What exactly do you think his duties are?
Does The Iona coach work for better facilities?
What’s the case in other programs? Why is SJU spending big bucks for a coach, if they know no one can attract top talent to Union Tpke.?

 

[SJU Double Alumn]

Beast-
Is it fair to express that a coach here should be expected to recruit the highest grade talent without improving facilities? 

if the coach cashes his very generous paycheck, YES!

I'll answer this with a hypothetical.   You are an office manager.   The stakeholders hold you accountable for not attracting the best talent when the office is horribly deficient, the equipment is old, and the place doesn't offer all the amenities other offices offer.

This is a real consideration.   I had a crappy basement office for a long time (almost 20 years).   I couldn't hire good talent locally because of that and had to come up with creative ways.   When I moved to a great neigherhood and a grade A building, my rent tripled, but I was able to hire better local talent.

However, I couldn't compete even on an equal salary basis with companies that had awesome offices, amenities like lunch everyday, kegs for after work, game rooms, on and on.   Didn't matter what my salary was, the type of people Google hires were never available to me, even if I paid the same salary.

So to your point 100,000 % what the coach makes has zero impact on a recruit deciding why to come here.

In our case, what they get in Mike Anderson is a man they can identify with, who is a successful family man as his everyone on his staff, who has a history of developing talent, and who understands where they came from and where they can be headed with a solid education.     

However, that only gets you so far.   Just like my personal example, recruits are very visual and definitely consider training facilities, weight rooms, even the dorms they live in.   To deny that is just wrong.

I'm certain we are telling recruits and honestly, that improvements are being planned.   Still that puts us behind schools that already have improvements



 

All very true, but he cashed the check. It’s on him.
What is Anderson doing to change the facilities? Is he intimately working with Cragg for an upgrade to facilities?
What exactly do you think his duties are?
Does The Iona coach work for better facilities?
What’s the case in other programs? Why is SJU spending big bucks for a coach, if they know no one can attract top talent to Union Tpke.?

What does Anderson's salary have to do with whether our poor facilities hamper recruiting? The bad facilities have a detrimental effect regardless of the coach's salary. If you want to argue then that we should just pack it in, hire a really cheap coach and give up on trying to have any type of success while the President and AD puts together a plan to improve facilities, then I would think most fans would disagree with that approach.

 

[beast of the east]

Beast-
Is it fair to express that a coach here should be expected to recruit the highest grade talent without improving facilities? 

if the coach cashes his very generous paycheck, YES!

I'll answer this with a hypothetical.   You are an office manager.   The stakeholders hold you accountable for not attracting the best talent when the office is horribly deficient, the equipment is old, and the place doesn't offer all the amenities other offices offer.

This is a real consideration.   I had a crappy basement office for a long time (almost 20 years).   I couldn't hire good talent locally because of that and had to come up with creative ways.   When I moved to a great neigherhood and a grade A building, my rent tripled, but I was able to hire better local talent.

However, I couldn't compete even on an equal salary basis with companies that had awesome offices, amenities like lunch everyday, kegs for after work, game rooms, on and on.   Didn't matter what my salary was, the type of people Google hires were never available to me, even if I paid the same salary.

So to your point 100,000 % what the coach makes has zero impact on a recruit deciding why to come here.

In our case, what they get in Mike Anderson is a man they can identify with, who is a successful family man as his everyone on his staff, who has a history of developing talent, and who understands where they came from and where they can be headed with a solid education.     

However, that only gets you so far.   Just like my personal example, recruits are very visual and definitely consider training facilities, weight rooms, even the dorms they live in.   To deny that is just wrong.

I'm certain we are telling recruits and honestly, that improvements are being planned.   Still that puts us behind schools that already have improvements




 

All very true, but he cashed the check. It’s on him.
What is Anderson doing to change the facilities? Is he intimately working with Cragg for an upgrade to facilities?
What exactly do you think his duties are?
Does The Iona coach work for better facilities?
What’s the case in other programs? Why is SJU spending big bucks for a coach, if they know no one can attract top talent to Union Tpke.?

Facilities are NOT on CMA.   He has a role and it is in a particular lane.   That's preposterous.   

I don't give a damn what Iona coaches do, or Hofstra, or Siena.   I will say that the smaller the program, the more a coach has to do.   Facilities are still not the Iona coach's responsibility.

We are spending $2 million per year on a coach because it's competitive to what a major conference coach makes.   You want experienced at high D1, that's the point of entry in a major market.   Thanks to the fact that we have a competitive athletic administrative leader, he is correctly pointing out that he needs better facilities to allow programs to be on an equal footing with competitors.

Denying this falls into the same old trap that investment isn't necessary.   We complain about the mom and pop mentiality, but by ignoring facilities, that is a mom and pop attitude.

It's Cragg's responsibility to give all of our sports and athletes the best chance to succeed, within our budget limitation.  He is correctly working on this.   What I think most people on here who identify as fans and alums are most angry about is that the responsibility to fund this come from donations.     

The reason most private schools cannot create sustained success in revenue producing sports is that revenue alone is not enough to compete with programs funded by tax dollar plus the ability to raise large sums of money.    Villanova fans get that.   Duke fans get that.    Collecitvely, our don't, at least not to the same extent as programs who enjoy tremendous success in sports.