Dunn Visit

[quote="Paultzman" post=355026][quote="Logen" post=355025][quote="fuchsia" post=355019]In Carlos Castaneda's writing about the Yaqui Indian brujo Don Juan, there is a passage about learning to look where things are not. If our last scholarship is used on a guard/wing and Steere is unavailable first semester, perhaps there is a possibility that Josh Roberts has taken a tremendous leap in skill and a judgment has been made that bringing in a second level big would be a disservice to both the team and the player.

In thinking about this I remembered Coach Lapchick's last game and sophomore Sonny Dove playing Villanova senior Jim Washington to a draw and STJ's 1965 NIT Championship. Josh Robert's second jump and quick feet reminded me of Sonny Dove.[/quote]

Really good point[/quote]

Fwiw, last week Heron told local scribe that Josh looks great, much improved.[/quote]

Love hearing that but I still think we need another big. Two if we had the room. And it is frustrating to be arguing about yet another mid level guard especially after watching Dixon last season. How are the players (younger ones especially) going to respond to an amped up full court defense? I'm thinking fouls. We are an injury and a few fouls away from 4 or 5 guards on the floor AGAIN. Sears is still practicing with a device on his knee. Even if that is just preventative it is foreboding. Roberts is prototypical for CMA style and if he's best case scenario playing like a senior, how many minutes can he realistically give? What if he gets injured? Need another big. Miracle and Steere is cleared, I'd still say we need another big.
 
[quote="fuchsia" post=355019]In Carlos Castaneda's writing about the Yaqui Indian brujo Don Juan, there is a passage about learning to look where things are not. If our last scholarship is used on a guard/wing and Steere is unavailable first semester, perhaps there is a possibility that Josh Roberts has taken a tremendous leap in skill and a judgment has been made that bringing in a second level big would be a disservice to both the team and the player.

In thinking about this I remembered Coach Lapchick's last game and sophomore Sonny Dove playing Villanova senior Jim Washington to a draw and STJ's 1965 NIT Championship. Josh Robert's second jump and quick feet reminded me of Sonny Dove.[/quote]
Fuchsia, I'm high on Roberts' potential too, but regardless of his feet, to put him and the great Sonny Dove in the same sentence borders is blasphemy. :unsure: And speaking of being high (i.e., on Roberts) and your reading Carlos Castaneda, maybe it's peyote flashbacks that have you looking (or finding) "where things are not." :)

P.S. Hope you take this in the spirit it was written.
 
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[quote="Paul Massell" post=355031][quote="Paultzman" post=355026][quote="Logen" post=355025][quote="fuchsia" post=355019]In Carlos Castaneda's writing about the Yaqui Indian brujo Don Juan, there is a passage about learning to look where things are not. If our last scholarship is used on a guard/wing and Steere is unavailable first semester, perhaps there is a possibility that Josh Roberts has taken a tremendous leap in skill and a judgment has been made that bringing in a second level big would be a disservice to both the team and the player.

In thinking about this I remembered Coach Lapchick's last game and sophomore Sonny Dove playing Villanova senior Jim Washington to a draw and STJ's 1965 NIT Championship. Josh Robert's second jump and quick feet reminded me of Sonny Dove.[/quote]

Really good point[/quote]

Fwiw, last week Heron told local scribe that Josh looks great, much improved.[/quote]

Love hearing that but I still think we need another big. Two if we had the room. And it is frustrating to be arguing about yet another mid level guard especially after watching Dixon last season. How are the players (younger ones especially) going to respond to an amped up full court defense? I'm thinking fouls. We are an injury and a few fouls away from 4 or 5 guards on the floor AGAIN. Sears is still practicing with a device on his knee. Even if that is just preventative it is foreboding. Roberts is prototypical for CMA style and if he's best case scenario playing like a senior, how many minutes can he realistically give? What if he gets injured? Need another big. Miracle and Steere is cleared, I'd still say we need another big.[/quote] take this with grain of salt but heard Earlingtin might have worked hardest since last season and really doing work with coaches. Might not be big contributor this year but with his busting his ass heard he definitely has chance with this staff to become something down the road
 
[quote="mjmaherjr" post=355056][quote="Paul Massell" post=355031][quote="Paultzman" post=355026][quote="Logen" post=355025][quote="fuchsia" post=355019]In Carlos Castaneda's writing about the Yaqui Indian brujo Don Juan, there is a passage about learning to look where things are not. If our last scholarship is used on a guard/wing and Steere is unavailable first semester, perhaps there is a possibility that Josh Roberts has taken a tremendous leap in skill and a judgment has been made that bringing in a second level big would be a disservice to both the team and the player.

In thinking about this I remembered Coach Lapchick's last game and sophomore Sonny Dove playing Villanova senior Jim Washington to a draw and STJ's 1965 NIT Championship. Josh Robert's second jump and quick feet reminded me of Sonny Dove.[/quote]

Really good point[/quote]

Fwiw, last week Heron told local scribe that Josh looks great, much improved.[/quote]

Love hearing that but I still think we need another big. Two if we had the room. And it is frustrating to be arguing about yet another mid level guard especially after watching Dixon last season. How are the players (younger ones especially) going to respond to an amped up full court defense? I'm thinking fouls. We are an injury and a few fouls away from 4 or 5 guards on the floor AGAIN. Sears is still practicing with a device on his knee. Even if that is just preventative it is foreboding. Roberts is prototypical for CMA style and if he's best case scenario playing like a senior, how many minutes can he realistically give? What if he gets injured? Need another big. Miracle and Steere is cleared, I'd still say we need another big.[/quote] take this with grain of salt but heard Earlingtin might have worked hardest since last season and really doing work with coaches. Might not be big contributor this year but with his busting his ass heard he definitely has chance with this staff to become something down the road[/quote]

No surprise there as a matter of fact it makes sense as the kid was always known to be a hard worker. My feeling is Earlington will thrive under CMA as will Roberts and Williams.
Looking forward to finally having a system in place, a team with an identity, a team committed to défense and a team committed to sharing the ball and doing the little unappreciated things required to win.
 
Put me on the side with needing another big one that takes up space and has the ability to take up space and score 6-11 , 250 would be nice Dreaming perhaps
 
Great to hear about Earlington as well but he is not a big. He's a strong kid who played football so he's tough and in some cases could guard an opposing big and would work in a switching defense for this purpose (I've had my fill of guard filled switching defense haven't you?) But he wants to be a guard and is most likely not going to grow 5 inches. He could be a valuable tweener and maybe a stretch 4 in some cases, but not a post player who can consistently matchup with the bigs we will face or be an option to post up on offense against bigger teams.
 
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Just spoke with Cleveland State transfer Raheem Dunn, who starts his official visit to St. John’s next week. He told me Shamorie Ponds will accompany him on his visit & has been helping him through the process. More in a story later #sjubb
DeAnte Mitchell
 
[quote="Paul Massell" post=355060]Great to hear about Earlington as well but he is not a big. He's a strong kid who played football so he's tough and in some cases could guard an opposing big and would work in a switching defense for this purpose (I've had my fill of guard filled switching defense haven't you?) But he wants to be a guard and is most likely not going to grow 5 inches. He could be a valuable tweener and maybe a stretch 4 in some cases, but not a post player who can consistently matchup with the bigs we will face or be an option to post up on offense against bigger teams.[/quote]

Charles Barkley was a 6'4 250 high school player who ended up playing center at 6'6. Let's fantasize that that Marcellus becomes our Round mound because unless we find a 6'11 Euro we will be what we will be and that is still deeper up front than any previous season. As for Rasheem I watched him play in high school and he was no where near top D 1 talent like Ponds. He would be wise to pick Siena. That said he is better at every facet of the game compared to Trimble. If he wants to be a role player fine because unlike Trimble he loves to drive and rebound. However he is a poor shooting 2 guard which we don't need.
 
[quote="Paul Massell" post=355031]
Love hearing that but I still think we need another big. Two if we had the room. And it is frustrating to be arguing about yet another mid level guard especially after watching Dixon last season. How are the players (younger ones especially) going to respond to an amped up full court defense? I'm thinking fouls. We are an injury and a few fouls away from 4 or 5 guards on the floor AGAIN. Sears is still practicing with a device on his knee. Even if that is just preventative it is foreboding. Roberts is prototypical for CMA style and if he's best case scenario playing like a senior, how many minutes can he realistically give? What if he gets injured? Need another big. Miracle and Steere is cleared, I'd still say we need another big.[/quote]

I'd personally like to see another big as well. But, looking at roster, could it be possible that the staff is comfortable enough with their front court rotation, to where they are just looking to take best available player?

5 - Steere (6'9 260), Sears (6'7 230), Roberts (6'9 210)
4 - Caraher (6'6 220), Earlington (6'6 220), Champagnie (6'7 220)

Honestly, that looks typical of a CMA front court. He usually has at 1 guy that 6'10+, but Steere is more athletic than those 6'10 guys he had there at Arkansas, with the exception of Gafford. And he typically has those 6'6-6'7 guys play the 4 in his system, he sometimes refer to them as quick forwards, I think those 3 guys I have listed above will fill in fine there.

The only person in that front court lineup that's kinda small at the position is Sears at 6'7, however, he's a banger with a lot of muscle, so he can make up for it. The back-up center at Arkansas last year was Reggie Chaney, who is 6'8 220, so it's not a big difference there at all.
 
[quote="Making Plays" post=355072][quote="Paul Massell" post=355031]

5 - Steere (6'9 260), Sears (6'7 230), Roberts (6'9 210)
4 - Caraher (6'6 220), Earlington (6'6 220), Champagnie (6'7 220)

The only person in that front court lineup that's kinda small at the position is Sears at 6'7, however, he's a banger with a lot of muscle, so he can make up for it. The back-up center at Arkansas last year was Reggie Chaney, who is 6'8 220, so it's not a big difference there at all.[/quote]

I look at matchups. I hated the switching defense but Mullin was more successful with it than I thought possible. I'm thinking however that without a Justin Simon (at 6'5 with close to a 7 ft wingspan) it would have been a complete disaster and we don't have another DPOY to fill that void.

Depending upon the matchups we can live with those guys and also remembering that the only guy with true banger size on your list is almost certainly out for the first half of the season. Roberts is slim but his explosive athleticism is our best hope but keeping him out of foul trouble will me the mantra all season long. Champagnie looks pretty slim to me more like a long 3. Earlington is 6'6 OK let's go with that if we are going to go along with 72's charles barkley fantasy comparisons... Caraher as a 4 is also a problem. We need another big.
 
[quote="Paul Massell" post=355075][quote="Making Plays" post=355072][quote="Paul Massell" post=355031]

5 - Steere (6'9 260), Sears (6'7 230), Roberts (6'9 210)
4 - Caraher (6'6 220), Earlington (6'6 220), Champagnie (6'7 220)

The only person in that front court lineup that's kinda small at the position is Sears at 6'7, however, he's a banger with a lot of muscle, so he can make up for it. The back-up center at Arkansas last year was Reggie Chaney, who is 6'8 220, so it's not a big difference there at all.[/quote]

I look at matchups. I hated the switching defense but Mullin was more successful with it than I thought possible. I'm thinking however that without a Justin Simon (at 6'5 with close to a 7 ft wingspan) it would have been a complete disaster and we don't have another DPOY to fill that void.

Depending upon the matchups we can live with those guys and also remembering that the only guy with true banger size on your list is almost certainly out for the first half of the season. Roberts is slim but his explosive athleticism is our best hope but keeping him out of foul trouble will me the mantra all season long. Champagnie looks pretty slim to me more like a long 3. Earlington is 6'6 OK let's go with that if we are going to go along with 72's charles barkley fantasy comparisons... Caraher as a 4 is also a problem. We need another big.[/quote]

How is Caraher at the 4 a problem? He played the 4 for HBU and averaged 16 PPG. He has the exact same weight and height as the starting 4 CMA used at Arkansas last year, and Caraher can actually shoot the ball, unlike Adrio Bailey.

Just my opinion, but I think people put too much into height these days, if a team doesn't have a 7 footer people will claim they need a big. I don't watch as much big east, as I do sec basketball, but I know the best team in the SEC last year, Tennessee, who at one point was #1 in the nation, frequently played lineups where there 2 forwards on the court were Grant Williams and Admiral Schofield and those guys are 6'6 and 6'7. The year before that Auburn tied winning the SEC and their tallest active player was 6'6. They had injuries and one of their big men was ruled ineligible that season.

In late July you just take the best available player. If it's the Dunn kid, you take him and let things work out. They've got enough front court players to survive, two 6'9 kids, and a 6'7 banger, and several 6'6 wing/forward players, it could be much worse. And honestly at this point unless they get the JUCO kid that just decommitted, you're going to be getting a kid that's a project that likely won't see a single significant minute of playing time anyway.
 
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I'd love to see us get another big. Don't see the point of getting another SG, but as others have said staff likely knows best what we need and what we can get at this stage.
 
[quote="Making Plays" post=355080][quote="Paul Massell" post=355075][quote="Making Plays" post=355072][quote="Paul Massell" post=355031]

5 - Steere (6'9 260), Sears (6'7 230), Roberts (6'9 210)
4 - Caraher (6'6 220), Earlington (6'6 220), Champagnie (6'7 220)

The only person in that front court lineup that's kinda small at the position is Sears at 6'7, however, he's a banger with a lot of muscle, so he can make up for it. The back-up center at Arkansas last year was Reggie Chaney, who is 6'8 220, so it's not a big difference there at all.[/quote]

I look at matchups. I hated the switching defense but Mullin was more successful with it than I thought possible. I'm thinking however that without a Justin Simon (at 6'5 with close to a 7 ft wingspan) it would have been a complete disaster and we don't have another DPOY to fill that void.

Depending upon the matchups we can live with those guys and also remembering that the only guy with true banger size on your list is almost certainly out for the first half of the season. Roberts is slim but his explosive athleticism is our best hope but keeping him out of foul trouble will me the mantra all season long. Champagnie looks pretty slim to me more like a long 3. Earlington is 6'6 OK let's go with that if we are going to go along with 72's charles barkley fantasy comparisons... Caraher as a 4 is also a problem. We need another big.[/quote]

How is Caraher at the 4 a problem? He played the 4 for HBU and averaged 16 PPG. He has the exact same weight and height as the starting 4 CMA used at Arkansas last year, and Caraher can actually shoot the ball, unlike Adrio Bailey.

Just my opinion, but I think people put too much into height these days, if a team doesn't have a 7 footer people will claim they need a big. I don't watch as much big east, as I do sec basketball, but I know the best team in the SEC last year, Tennessee, who at one point was #1 in the nation, frequently played lineups where there 2 forwards on the court were Grant Williams and Admiral Schofield and those guys are 6'6 and 6'7. The year before that Auburn tied winning the SEC and their tallest active player was 6'6. They had injuries and one of their big men was ruled ineligible that season.

In late July you just take the best available player. If it's the Dunn kid, you take him and let things work out. They've got enough front court players to survive, two 6'9 kids, and a 6'7 banger, and several 6'6 wing/forward players, it could be much worse. And honestly at this point unless they get the JUCO kid that just decommitted, you're going to be getting a kid that's a project that likely won't see a single significant minute of playing time anyway.[/quote]

I agree. There is height and there is wasted height. Keita was wasted height. We had no real Big East level center or power forward last season. The last staff had a terrible reputation recruiting or holding on to bigs. They had Trimble guarding 4s and 5s while Roberts was glued to the bench. I am confident that this staff will use anyone over 6'6 better.
 
Look for Greg Williams to ably fill Simon's defensive stopper role. Might not have the wingspan but I see the athleticism and intensity in him.
 
“They want me to be a part of what they have going on there with the fast pace and up-tempo style,” he said. “They feel like I can contribute to the team a lot and help them in the Big East”


“I’m expecting to learn more about the coaches,” he said. “I’m just trying to see what the coaches can do for me to help me get to the next level. Not only just for me, but other players on the team.”

“I want to feel a vibe, see their commitment to each other and if they have a vision for what they want from the players.”

Article notes Van Mason and CMA have been in constant contact w Dunn.

https://stjohns.rivals.com/news/st-john-s-eyes-brooklyn-guard
 
I think he can be a good fit for us. Attack the basket, push the tempo and lock up defensively. Also from videos and interviews I have seen, he's a confident kid. If he can improve his jumper, he can be real solid I think.

Not to be overlooked. Getting Dunn keep us strong with Jefferson, and they always have players. Jaquan Carlos is a stud PG in 21.
 
It is fair to assume staff feels Dunn will help the backcourt immediately. It is also fair imo to wonder if the prognosis for 2020 class guards they have targeted is guarded and getting Dunn is hedging a bet in some sense.
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=355100]It is fair to assume staff feels Dunn will help the backcourt immediately & they are confident about a waiver. It is also fair imo to wonder if the prognosis for 2020 class guards they have targeted is guarded and getting Dunn is hedging a bet in some sense.[/quote]
 
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