Dominic Artis, Oregon Transfer
- Thread starter TRabinowitz
- Start date
We don't know that "she was raped." We know that there was a sexual incident. Big difference.
I have not yet decided how I feel about this. I am a father of two girls, and that impacts my opinion. I am also an attorney and I do take a "innocent until proven guilty" perspective into the discussion. If he was charged, I would be squarely against it but I read the police report in its entirety and I have serious doubts about whether it was rape.
From a basketball perspective, I would not mind having him on the team. I also wouldn't mind if it opened up a pipeline with the Oakland Soldiers. The Post article says it would preclude us from getting Briscoe. I would hope that a roster could have room for junior pg and a freshman pg (even if he aspires to be one and done).
You can have your legal definition of rape. This doesn't pass the smell test. At very least, this young man has demonsteated very poor judgement. I would like to see another team take the risk. After all, it took half a decade to recover from the Jarvis era.
Good post. Too often people just jump all over they guy/athlete when a woman makes a claim--branded for life by half of the country right off the bat. I had a (very drunk) friend that was accused of rape at UConn when the drunk girl's bf walked in on them. Lucky for him, two of my other friends were passing out in the apartment as well and refuted the whole story and told the police they had been hooking up all weekend. The girl thought absolutely nothing of ruining his life to save her relationship. On the flip side, I also ended up breaking my best friend's nose at a party at Rutgers when he kept trying to lock himself in a bathroom with this girl. I had to get up like six times to stop it, and finally the girl I was with took her friend and left. I asked him to be a human being for an hour...worst wing man ever.
It's not my definition of rape. We can each have our opinion as to whether or not we should take the risk. I may be on the same side as you.
That being said, I think child molesters and rapists are the most vile people on earth. That is a far cry from a college kid who demonstrates "very poor judgment."
Mark,
I respectfully ask you or anyone to explain why Mr. Lavin should be considered to be a "great recruited" (your term).
Mr. Lavin is now in his 5th recruiting cycle (2011, 12, 13, 14 and 15) and he has delivered 3 marquee players who have or will seemingly make major contributions to the StJ's team (Harkless, Harrison, and Jordan).
I credit Mr. Lavin with delivering highly rated players in the 2011 class but many of those players unfortunately were seemingly overrated (Garrett), or a complete bust (Lindsey).
For every Harkless that Lavin has recruited to St.John's there has been a bust, a miss or a mediocre to "pretty good" player who could not start on a majority of Big East Conference teams (see Hooper, Balamou, Bourgault, Sanchez, Jones, Greene, Lindsey, and others).
Mr.Lavin may be considered to be a "pretty good" recruiter but please save me from the Lavin is a "great recruiter"drivel.
I hope Mr. Lavin proves me wrong but given the fact that nearly 1/3d of the Rivals top 100 class of 2015 has already committed to a school, and not one has selected StJ's, or is considered to be a strong probability I fear that this cycle will be more of the same where Lavin scours the transfer and JUCO markets to fill his roster when true "great coaches" replenish with top 100 high schoolers.
MarkRedman
Well-known member
Otis:
If you read the previous posts in this thread (see bottom of page 6), I did not anoint Mr. Lavin as a "great recruiter"
I was merely commenting on bamafan's post which labeled him as such
For my money, Mr. Lavin is a slightly better than average recruiter and a below average developer of talent and a below average bench coach
Mr. Lavin may be a "nice guy" and a good P.R. man, but that alone doesn't make our program successful
For the salary he is being paid, I believe that we should be able to attract a much more talented coach than Mr. Lavin
On a related note, the accuser has now hired the attorney who represented the accuser of Kobe Bryant in his civil suit for rape, which Bryant settled for an undisclosed amount of $$$. This attorney is also currently representing the accuser of Jameis Winston.
So this Oregon case isn't going out of the spotlight anytime soon. University of Oregon has deeper pockets than Bryant. I am sure the whole due diligence aspect around the recruitment of Brandon Austin will be front and center as well.
So this Oregon case isn't going out of the spotlight anytime soon. University of Oregon has deeper pockets than Bryant. I am sure the whole due diligence aspect around the recruitment of Brandon Austin will be front and center as well.
MarkRedman
Well-known member
Not a problem. Thanks for the kind words, Otis. Please know that the feeling is mutual.
Class of 72
Active member
I am not going to take sides on this issue with Artis but anyone who has been around athletes knows that these are young people at the prime of their sexual lives and have always been magnets for girls. The sad fact is they take full advantage of the opportunity. That is a far cry from a being a psycho molester. In this case the "victim" put herself in harm's way on more than one occasion and what occurred happens every week on college campuses and military bases. A kid of 19 hears yes, yes and sometimes does not hear the NO that is voiced hours later. Sometimes the victim just wants someone punished and identifies the wrong person or persons (see Central Park 5).
MarkRedman
Well-known member
Fwiw, The Maven is going wild on Twitter with lots of tweets ripping Lavin for pursuing Artis
Class of 72
Active member
First of all Lavin is striking out with every major target in the top 100 for 2014. He and his staff started late and are in desperation mode. His long term targets are starting to lean elsewhere and he needs to win this coming year and make the NCAA. I do not think Artis lands at SJU and Lavin is doing favors to west coast buddies as usual.
As for Maven ripping Lavin take it with a grain of salt. Maven has been in bed with every coach at SJ and few elsewhere. He is a guy that goes to church and sins 1 hour later. He believes in his own redemption but not the redemption of others. He can be as crude and as foul mouthed as a prison lifer but he loves his alma mater. I also agree with him that this recruit is a wasted visit and he should be camped outside Briscoes house instead of making bad headlines but desperate times calls for desperate measures but there are other programs pursuing Artis and he will end up elsewhere.
This is not a thread I hoped to chime in on as I am sorry it even exists.
I hate to say it but this is not a kid we should be pursuing. A team gangbang is what got us in this position in the first place. Now 10 years later it is acceptable to participate in a team gangbang as long as no charges are laid? This is shameful IMHO. In Pitt there was never any mention of confinement against ones will if my memory serves me correctly.
This recruitment is bad on all counts and is a black eye for the school.
Is Artis a player we need so badly?
Sorry to say but I would rather have the top 150 -300 level players that Norm Roberts recruited like Malik Booth and Paris Horne who were great kids and easy to root for than players who would be charged with serious crimes but not for lack of evidence and contradictory testimony.
72 I hear what you are saying about desperate times but there is no reason we should be in this position.
beast of the east
Active member
After reflecting on the comments here, and reading the accounts of the alleged rape, we should pass. As stated by others here, this story isn't going away any time soon. St. John's, with NYC media outlets in its backyard, is NOT the place for Artis to find redemption.
I suspect we will pass, and the next round of bad judgment in this story should not be Lavin's.
I suspect we will pass, and the next round of bad judgment in this story should not be Lavin's.
I disagree. Talent is of paramount importance. The team needs talent in 2015 and beyond.
Further this kid poses no risk at this point. You have all of 2014/2015 to keep him on a short leash.
If he behaves and goes to class you keep him and play him. If he does not go to class, is an academic disaster or
Misbehaves you throw him off the team. You also make it clear to the kid that there is zero tolerance for sexual
Misconduct and if there are any new allegations his career at SJU is over.
Btw I did read the report, so I understand the severity of the allegations at Oregon.
Further this kid poses no risk at this point. You have all of 2014/2015 to keep him on a short leash.
If he behaves and goes to class you keep him and play him. If he does not go to class, is an academic disaster or
Misbehaves you throw him off the team. You also make it clear to the kid that there is zero tolerance for sexual
Misconduct and if there are any new allegations his career at SJU is over.
Btw I did read the report, so I understand the severity of the allegations at Oregon.