Delaware, Sat., Dec. 28, 6p, FS-1

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lawmanfan said:
To pick up on this half- finished thought from last night:

I think most fans my age or older come from the frame that you bring players in with the idea of keeping and developing them. And with that comes a certain long-term perspective that lends itself to how you coach players - not just for today, but for tomorrow and next season. You don't want to be too tough on kids who have potential or bury them on the bench because you will lose them and their potential, thus wasting the work you did to bring them in.

Moreover, coaches tend to be teachers, and teachers tend to be built to work and behave that way anyway.

Pitino has gone the opposite way last year and this one. If you are playing and producing the way he wants, then you are "in the club" and you get lots of rope. Jenkins last year, Kadary and Zuby this year.

If you are not in the club, then he's going to be tremendously hard on you. You will get pulled and yelled at for every mistake, sometimes you'll get back in and sometimes you won't, sometimes you won't play at all.

If you survive that mentally and play and produce the way he wants, then you can make your way into the club. Wilcher is just about there. Smith got in now.

If you don't, his view is clearly "fine, you'll leave and I'll get someone else."

That is pretty dissonant for us olds, it is not at all what we grew up with and watched for decades.

But in truth Pitino has adjusted to the modern era better than most. He isn't wrong - the players have an equally short term view. So there really is no sense in investing in players for the long haul when they won't be there for the long haul anyway.

It's very disappointing and dispiriting from a human and teaching perspective, but it is the world we live in now. Which is why Jay Wright, Tony Bennett, Larranaga, Nick Saban and other excellent coaches have bailed out.

I probably prefer the Kim English approach to the modern era (more positivity and salesman, similar to Shaka Smart) than Pitino's Darth Vader approach, but I can't say he is off base.
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One other factor is time. Shaka has years ahead of him. Pitino has five year window to win championship. Does not have luxury of building in traditional way.
 
Joedib said:
One other factor is time. Shaka has years ahead of him. Pitino has five year window to win championship. Does not have luxury of building in traditional way.
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He just had to win an NCAA tournament game to become 2nd best ST John’s coach since Lou.
Think that is much more realistic goal.
 
Silly Donovan said:
What does the depth of other teams have to do with the Johnnie’s depth. Posters on this site believe we have quality depth to 9-10 guys. But when the game has been close in the second half, Rick rarely goes past 6 players.

The term depth is overused on this board. While we have some players that will fill in with a minimal amount of damage, depth usually refers to players who contribute significantly.

I like our top 6/7 but after that it’s a crap shoot.
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We still have more depth, because even if we play 7 or 8 guys most nights, we have 10 legit options for those 7 or 8 spots. The last 2 or so can change based on matchups/effective players.

In years past, we've usually had 7 or 8 players, for 7 or 8 spots.
 
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NCJohnnie said:
Guys, depth does not necessarily mean nine guys have to average double digit minutes. Take a look. Having six guys average 20 plus minutes and three guys average 6-10 mpg is the definition of depth and we will be right there
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When the game announcers discuss the team stats at the end of a game, they usually mention contributions from the bench based on their scoring contributions. They will tout a team as having depth by the number of points from the bench. So while I don’t believe that to be the only contributing factor, that’s generally what many will describe as a team with depth.

Even in the game against an overmatched Delaware team, every time a bench player scored they couldn’t stop using the term “depth”.
 
Silly Donovan said:
When the game announcers discuss the team stats at the end of a game, they usually mention contributions from the bench based on their scoring contributions. They will tout a team as having depth by the number of points from the bench. So while I don’t believe that to be the only contributing factor, that’s generally what many will describe as a team with depth.

Even in the game against an overmatched Delaware team, every time a bench player scored they couldn’t stop using the term “depth”.
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I think when they go over those stats, they always state it's about bench production, not depth. By those standards, if your sixth man averages fifteen points, a game that's depth. But it's not. Depths is like insurance.
 
Tell me we are not a deep team with:

Deivon
Wilcher
Kadary
RJ Luis
Glover
Scott
Zuby
Prey
Dunlap
Iwuchukwu

That’s an extremely nasty top 10. Ayo even gets minutes and likely down the road Lefteris can too. That’s a deep team in every respect.
 
Amaseinyourface said:
Don’t think we have great depth, do think we have necessary depth. Difference makers or not we have 7 foot and 6’11 off the bench and some athletic wings. And that’s with essentially 6 starters before them.

Asking for much more would be greedy
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I have a feeling we will laugh about thinking this team was deep next year if we retain our key players.
 
lawmanfan said:
Completely agree. Rick behaves like a guy under tremendous pressure to win now and he's coaching that way too. But I figure that's kind of who he is anyway.
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Do you think that Pitino is under more pressure now to win than the pressure he experienced at Kentucky, Louisville and even Iona, which was his first coaching job after returning from Greece? According to Sports-Reference CBB, his winning percentages at those three schools respectively were .814, .744 and .744. Overall he's won about 865 games, won two national championships at two different schools and has taken three different schools to the final four.

I don't necessarily disagree with you but he must have experienced a great deal of pressure to win in his career. Just asking.
 
CBA69 said:
Do you think that Pitino is under more pressure now to win than the pressure he experienced at Kentucky, Louisville and even Iona, which was his first coaching job after returning from Greece? According to Sports-Reference CBB, his winning percentages at those three schools respectively were .814, .744 and .744. Overall he's won about 865 games, won two national championships at two different schools and has taken three different schools to the final four.

I don't necessarily disagree with you but he must have experienced a great deal of pressure to win in his career. Just asking.
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No - I don't think he is under a lot of outside pressure. As someone noted somewhere along here, if he wins an NCAA tournament game that puts him in elite company among SJU coaches in the past 20 years.

Whether it is a case of "this is just who he is" or "he feels the footsteps of Father Time" I have no idea, though.
 
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