D1 Coaching Changes
- Thread starter paultzman
- Start date
RedStormRising
Well-known member
[quote="simplyred" post=278046][quote="Paultzman" post=278030]
We tend to rip UConn, Willard, SH, Chris Mack etc., but perhaps better to focus on our own program. Next year appears time to demonstrate we can be a program, not a chronic rebuild. I do believe with Ponds, a couple of bigs, a solid 19 class & improved coaching we can get there. Faltering in those areas would keep SJU in mediocrity imo. To a successful next season![/quote]
WE ARE...DE - PAUL! WE ARE...DE - PAUL![/quote]
This is upsetting because we were well on our way to being Providence or Seton Hall under Lavin. If memory serves me we had 2 NITs and 2 NCAAs in 6 years.
That was success we hadn't had seen in while. We chased him off hoping the grass was greener. (It was for him, he is the NCAA tournaments best color guy). Mullin has not given me any indication that it will be better for us. I would be more than happy to eat crow though.
We tend to rip UConn, Willard, SH, Chris Mack etc., but perhaps better to focus on our own program. Next year appears time to demonstrate we can be a program, not a chronic rebuild. I do believe with Ponds, a couple of bigs, a solid 19 class & improved coaching we can get there. Faltering in those areas would keep SJU in mediocrity imo. To a successful next season![/quote]
WE ARE...DE - PAUL! WE ARE...DE - PAUL![/quote]
This is upsetting because we were well on our way to being Providence or Seton Hall under Lavin. If memory serves me we had 2 NITs and 2 NCAAs in 6 years.
That was success we hadn't had seen in while. We chased him off hoping the grass was greener. (It was for him, he is the NCAA tournaments best color guy). Mullin has not given me any indication that it will be better for us. I would be more than happy to eat crow though.
JohnnyFever
Active member
[quote="RedStormRising2" post=278092][quote="simplyred" post=278046][quote="Paultzman" post=278030]
We tend to rip UConn, Willard, SH, Chris Mack etc., but perhaps better to focus on our own program. Next year appears time to demonstrate we can be a program, not a chronic rebuild. I do believe with Ponds, a couple of bigs, a solid 19 class & improved coaching we can get there. Faltering in those areas would keep SJU in mediocrity imo. To a successful next season![/quote]
WE ARE...DE - PAUL! WE ARE...DE - PAUL![/quote]
This is upsetting because we were well on our way to being Providence or Seton Hall under Lavin. If memory serves me we had 2 NITs and 2 NCAAs in 6 years.
That was success we hadn't had seen in while. We chased him off hoping the grass was greener. (It was for him, he is the NCAA tournaments best color guy). Mullin has not given me any indication that it will be better for us. I would be more than happy to eat crow though.[/quote]
Lavin recruited very well at first, brought in tons of talent...and then BARELY made the tournament by the skin of his teeth with Sweet 16 caliber talent. Players rarely got better and all he had them do was a weave passing back and forth. When in the tourney, we immediately bent over. His teams were absolutely atrocious in any postseason games including the NIT, NCAA's, and BET. That's why he got fired and rightfully so. You never got the feeling they were going to win after barely making the tourney. Then the only thing he had going for him (good recruiting) fell off and that was that. Mullin was another bad choice and we're paying for that with bad recruiting.
We tend to rip UConn, Willard, SH, Chris Mack etc., but perhaps better to focus on our own program. Next year appears time to demonstrate we can be a program, not a chronic rebuild. I do believe with Ponds, a couple of bigs, a solid 19 class & improved coaching we can get there. Faltering in those areas would keep SJU in mediocrity imo. To a successful next season![/quote]
WE ARE...DE - PAUL! WE ARE...DE - PAUL![/quote]
This is upsetting because we were well on our way to being Providence or Seton Hall under Lavin. If memory serves me we had 2 NITs and 2 NCAAs in 6 years.
That was success we hadn't had seen in while. We chased him off hoping the grass was greener. (It was for him, he is the NCAA tournaments best color guy). Mullin has not given me any indication that it will be better for us. I would be more than happy to eat crow though.[/quote]
Lavin recruited very well at first, brought in tons of talent...and then BARELY made the tournament by the skin of his teeth with Sweet 16 caliber talent. Players rarely got better and all he had them do was a weave passing back and forth. When in the tourney, we immediately bent over. His teams were absolutely atrocious in any postseason games including the NIT, NCAA's, and BET. That's why he got fired and rightfully so. You never got the feeling they were going to win after barely making the tourney. Then the only thing he had going for him (good recruiting) fell off and that was that. Mullin was another bad choice and we're paying for that with bad recruiting.
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=278093][quote="RedStormRising2" post=278092][quote="simplyred" post=278046][quote="Paultzman" post=278030]
We tend to rip UConn, Willard, SH, Chris Mack etc., but perhaps better to focus on our own program. Next year appears time to demonstrate we can be a program, not a chronic rebuild. I do believe with Ponds, a couple of bigs, a solid 19 class & improved coaching we can get there. Faltering in those areas would keep SJU in mediocrity imo. To a successful next season![/quote]
WE ARE...DE - PAUL! WE ARE...DE - PAUL![/quote]
This is upsetting because we were well on our way to being Providence or Seton Hall under Lavin. If memory serves me we had 2 NITs and 2 NCAAs in 6 years.
That was success we hadn't had seen in while. We chased him off hoping the grass was greener. (It was for him, he is the NCAA tournaments best color guy). Mullin has not given me any indication that it will be better for us. I would be more than happy to eat crow though.[/quote]
Lavin recruited very well at first, brought in tons of talent...and then BARELY made the tournament by the skin of his teeth with Sweet 16 caliber talent. Players rarely got better and all he had them do was a weave passing back and forth. When in the tourney, we immediately bent over. His teams were absolutely atrocious in any postseason games including the NIT, NCAA's, and BET. That's why he got fired and rightfully so. You never got the feeling they were going to win after barely making the tourney. Then the only thing he had going for him (good recruiting) fell off and that was that. Mullin was another bad choice and we're paying for that with bad recruiting.[/quote]
Watching Nevada vs Loyola now. Nevada only plays 6 guys. Have all year , and look what we they’re doing in the NCAA Tournament. Granted , they didn’t play in the Big East but just look at what good coaching can do. A short roster is no excuse.
We tend to rip UConn, Willard, SH, Chris Mack etc., but perhaps better to focus on our own program. Next year appears time to demonstrate we can be a program, not a chronic rebuild. I do believe with Ponds, a couple of bigs, a solid 19 class & improved coaching we can get there. Faltering in those areas would keep SJU in mediocrity imo. To a successful next season![/quote]
WE ARE...DE - PAUL! WE ARE...DE - PAUL![/quote]
This is upsetting because we were well on our way to being Providence or Seton Hall under Lavin. If memory serves me we had 2 NITs and 2 NCAAs in 6 years.
That was success we hadn't had seen in while. We chased him off hoping the grass was greener. (It was for him, he is the NCAA tournaments best color guy). Mullin has not given me any indication that it will be better for us. I would be more than happy to eat crow though.[/quote]
Lavin recruited very well at first, brought in tons of talent...and then BARELY made the tournament by the skin of his teeth with Sweet 16 caliber talent. Players rarely got better and all he had them do was a weave passing back and forth. When in the tourney, we immediately bent over. His teams were absolutely atrocious in any postseason games including the NIT, NCAA's, and BET. That's why he got fired and rightfully so. You never got the feeling they were going to win after barely making the tourney. Then the only thing he had going for him (good recruiting) fell off and that was that. Mullin was another bad choice and we're paying for that with bad recruiting.[/quote]
Watching Nevada vs Loyola now. Nevada only plays 6 guys. Have all year , and look what we they’re doing in the NCAA Tournament. Granted , they didn’t play in the Big East but just look at what good coaching can do. A short roster is no excuse.
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Class of 72
Active member
Mean Gene wrote:
"Watching Nevada vs Loyola now. Nevada only plays 6 guys. Have all year , and look what we they’re doing in the NCAA Tournament. Granted , they didn’t play in the Big East but just look at what good coaching can do. A short roster is no excuse."
Nevada is a good example. The Martin twins are very good players at 6'7 but they have no player over 6'8. They're going deep in the tourney after dismissing a Matt Abdelmassih flunky recruit Darien Williams. Matt can offer all the recruits he wants Mullin has to be able to close and thus far he has not been a closer.
"Watching Nevada vs Loyola now. Nevada only plays 6 guys. Have all year , and look what we they’re doing in the NCAA Tournament. Granted , they didn’t play in the Big East but just look at what good coaching can do. A short roster is no excuse."
Nevada is a good example. The Martin twins are very good players at 6'7 but they have no player over 6'8. They're going deep in the tourney after dismissing a Matt Abdelmassih flunky recruit Darien Williams. Matt can offer all the recruits he wants Mullin has to be able to close and thus far he has not been a closer.
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beast of the east
Active member
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=278093][quote="RedStormRising2" post=278092][quote="simplyred" post=278046][quote="Paultzman" post=278030]
We tend to rip UConn, Willard, SH, Chris Mack etc., but perhaps better to focus on our own program. Next year appears time to demonstrate we can be a program, not a chronic rebuild. I do believe with Ponds, a couple of bigs, a solid 19 class & improved coaching we can get there. Faltering in those areas would keep SJU in mediocrity imo. To a successful next season![/quote]
WE ARE...DE - PAUL! WE ARE...DE - PAUL![/quote]
This is upsetting because we were well on our way to being Providence or Seton Hall under Lavin. If memory serves me we had 2 NITs and 2 NCAAs in 6 years.
That was success we hadn't had seen in while. We chased him off hoping the grass was greener. (It was for him, he is the NCAA tournaments best color guy). Mullin has not given me any indication that it will be better for us. I would be more than happy to eat crow though.[/quote]
Lavin recruited very well at first, brought in tons of talent...and then BARELY made the tournament by the skin of his teeth with Sweet 16 caliber talent. Players rarely got better and all he had them do was a weave passing back and forth. When in the tourney, we immediately bent over. His teams were absolutely atrocious in any postseason games including the NIT, NCAA's, and BET. That's why he got fired and rightfully so. You never got the feeling they were going to win after barely making the tourney. Then the only thing he had going for him (good recruiting) fell off and that was that. Mullin was another bad choice and we're paying for that with bad recruiting.[/quote]
We had a 6 man rotation his final season. Essentially 5 guards plus Tokebepka
We tend to rip UConn, Willard, SH, Chris Mack etc., but perhaps better to focus on our own program. Next year appears time to demonstrate we can be a program, not a chronic rebuild. I do believe with Ponds, a couple of bigs, a solid 19 class & improved coaching we can get there. Faltering in those areas would keep SJU in mediocrity imo. To a successful next season![/quote]
WE ARE...DE - PAUL! WE ARE...DE - PAUL![/quote]
This is upsetting because we were well on our way to being Providence or Seton Hall under Lavin. If memory serves me we had 2 NITs and 2 NCAAs in 6 years.
That was success we hadn't had seen in while. We chased him off hoping the grass was greener. (It was for him, he is the NCAA tournaments best color guy). Mullin has not given me any indication that it will be better for us. I would be more than happy to eat crow though.[/quote]
Lavin recruited very well at first, brought in tons of talent...and then BARELY made the tournament by the skin of his teeth with Sweet 16 caliber talent. Players rarely got better and all he had them do was a weave passing back and forth. When in the tourney, we immediately bent over. His teams were absolutely atrocious in any postseason games including the NIT, NCAA's, and BET. That's why he got fired and rightfully so. You never got the feeling they were going to win after barely making the tourney. Then the only thing he had going for him (good recruiting) fell off and that was that. Mullin was another bad choice and we're paying for that with bad recruiting.[/quote]
We had a 6 man rotation his final season. Essentially 5 guards plus Tokebepka
L J S A
Well-known member
[quote="Class of 72" post=278097]Mean Gene wrote:
"Watching Nevada vs Loyola now. Nevada only plays 6 guys. Have all year , and look what we they’re doing in the NCAA Tournament. Granted , they didn’t play in the Big East but just look at what good coaching can do. A short roster is no excuse."
Nevada is a good example. The Martin twins are very good players at 6'7 but they have no player over 6'8. They're going deep in the tourney after dismissing a Matt Abdelmassih flunky recruit Darien Williams. Matt can offer all the recruits he wants Mullin has to be able to close and thus far he has not been a closer.[/quote]
The Martins can transfer after this season as grad students. Maybe Matt should call. If we hire Pitino he can pay them to come.
"Watching Nevada vs Loyola now. Nevada only plays 6 guys. Have all year , and look what we they’re doing in the NCAA Tournament. Granted , they didn’t play in the Big East but just look at what good coaching can do. A short roster is no excuse."
Nevada is a good example. The Martin twins are very good players at 6'7 but they have no player over 6'8. They're going deep in the tourney after dismissing a Matt Abdelmassih flunky recruit Darien Williams. Matt can offer all the recruits he wants Mullin has to be able to close and thus far he has not been a closer.[/quote]
The Martins can transfer after this season as grad students. Maybe Matt should call. If we hire Pitino he can pay them to come.
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[quote="RedStormRising2" post=278092]This is upsetting because we were well on our way to being ... Seton Hall under Lavin[/quote]
College Search Committee: Steve, how would you describe your experience at St John's?
Coach Lavs. I would describe or portray my time or tenure at St John's as positive or favorable. We began our journey up the hill or mountain by taking incremental or baby steps because there are more important things than winning. I consider myself a teacher first - just as was my dear late father - and a molder of character second and a mentor third and a life coach fourth and only after that a basketball coach. In fact, one of the things I enjoyed most about being at St John's was that I felt absolutely no pressure to win basketball games. Unfortunately we suffered or underwent some unfortunate setbacks or misfortunes during my time or regime including my illness or disease, which you probably never heard about because I didn't mention it on television or in print every chance I got and also my father or paterfamilias died or passed away, you might not have heard about that either. Despite which impasses or obstacles after five years we were well on our way to becoming Seton Hall, a team that's won one NCAA tournament game over the last six years. And I have no doubt that with the brilliant recruits I brought in over the last two years, including Keith Thomas and Amar Alibegowitz - the finest Serbian sharpshooter I've seen since Slobodan Milošević - we were poised or on the brink of taking the next step on our magic carpet ride that lofty goal of becoming Seton Hall or perhaps beyond or past that to becoming Marquette, which is coached by coach Wojo, who studied at the feet of my mentor Mike Scerwshrenski, who influenced or molded me so much as did my pop or father who recently died or passed away and also John Wooden, Bobby Knight, Clair Bee, Hank Iba, Phog Allen, Pete Newell, and my Mister Myagi Gene Keady, all of whose feet or appendages I studied or learned under or beneath. Unfortunately the administration wanted to move in a different or contradistinctional direction or course which led to my firing or being dismissed.
College Search Committee: Steve, how would you describe your experience at St John's?
Coach Lavs. I would describe or portray my time or tenure at St John's as positive or favorable. We began our journey up the hill or mountain by taking incremental or baby steps because there are more important things than winning. I consider myself a teacher first - just as was my dear late father - and a molder of character second and a mentor third and a life coach fourth and only after that a basketball coach. In fact, one of the things I enjoyed most about being at St John's was that I felt absolutely no pressure to win basketball games. Unfortunately we suffered or underwent some unfortunate setbacks or misfortunes during my time or regime including my illness or disease, which you probably never heard about because I didn't mention it on television or in print every chance I got and also my father or paterfamilias died or passed away, you might not have heard about that either. Despite which impasses or obstacles after five years we were well on our way to becoming Seton Hall, a team that's won one NCAA tournament game over the last six years. And I have no doubt that with the brilliant recruits I brought in over the last two years, including Keith Thomas and Amar Alibegowitz - the finest Serbian sharpshooter I've seen since Slobodan Milošević - we were poised or on the brink of taking the next step on our magic carpet ride that lofty goal of becoming Seton Hall or perhaps beyond or past that to becoming Marquette, which is coached by coach Wojo, who studied at the feet of my mentor Mike Scerwshrenski, who influenced or molded me so much as did my pop or father who recently died or passed away and also John Wooden, Bobby Knight, Clair Bee, Hank Iba, Phog Allen, Pete Newell, and my Mister Myagi Gene Keady, all of whose feet or appendages I studied or learned under or beneath. Unfortunately the administration wanted to move in a different or contradistinctional direction or course which led to my firing or being dismissed.
If Lavin had to Coach the Players Mullin did in his first season , we might hhave gone 0 for the Season . Lavin had lost whatever motivated him to come here , long before his last Season . He got DLO, Pointer, Greene, Branch , Jordan , Obepka , through their Last Year here and had nothing left in the Cupboard and he knew it . As for those naysayers again, Mullin and Staff got Ponds to come here . Convinced Lovett to come and sit out as partial qualifier and then play . Kept Mussini as a freshman and had him play the point and be the Team’s best player . Brought Simon and Clarke here . Found space for Owens as a transfer from Tenn. Recruited Ahmed from Jr College . Recruited Yakwe and Sima , coveted HS players that unfortunately did not pan out . Convinced Pervis Ellison and son , Malik to come to St John’s for 2 Years . Brought in Williams and got a serviceable year from him , before he self destructed at Nevada . Next year we have Dixon , Diakite, Williams , Roberts and who knows what 5 th year Player we may wind up with . So , while not all these Players were all successes , they were in most quarters highly sought after Players . Simon and Clarke were top 100 players in HS . Getting them to come here , no small accomplishment . Brooks ? Disappointing but , how do you explain a decommit from a School involved in Recruting violations , commit to us and then , go back to USC? Can’t find blame there .
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Class of 72
Active member
[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=278245]If Lavin had to Coach the Players Mullin did in his first season , we might hhave gone 0 for the Season . Lavin had lost whatever motivated him to come here , long before his last Season . He got DLO, Pointer, Greene, Branch , Jordan , Obepka , through their Last Year here and had nothing left in the Cupboard and he knew it . As for those naysayers again, Mullin and Staff got Ponds to come here . Convinced Lovett to come and sit out as partial qualifier and then play . Kept Mussini as a freshman and had him play the point and be the Team’s best player . Brought Simon and Clarke here . Found space for Owens as a transfer from Tenn. Recruited Ahmed from Jr College . Recruited Yakwe and Sima , coveted HS players that unfortunately did not pan out . Convinced Pervis Ellison and son , Malik to come to St John’s for 2 Years . Brought in Williams and got a serviceable year from him , before he self destructed at Nevada . Next year we have Dixon , Diakite, Williams , Roberts and who knows what 5 th year Player we may wind up with . So , while not all these Players were all successes , they were in most quarters highly sought after Players . Simon and Clarke were top 100 players in HS . Getting them to come here , no small accomplishment . Brooks ? Disappointing but , how do you explain a decommit from a School involved in Recruting violations , commit to us and then , go back to USC? Can’t find blame there .[/quote]
I'm not sure if this was a pro or anti Mullin post.
To quote loving father Mr. Owens: Men lie, women lie, but numbers don't lie.
Our venerable basketball legend has just completed his 3rd straight losing season and so far other than Ponds, I don't see any impact recruits knocking down the door to play for him. In fact, I don't see him knocking on any doors either. Hopefully he learns recruiting 101 while completing his introductory course in coaching 101. It never fails to amaze me that so many here need to justify the, to-date, failed Mullin experiment by knocking a former coach who took the program to 4 post season tourney appearances. Yes, after his cancer he lost his mojo recruiting but I recall some posters here in his first couple of years bragging "who Lavin wants, Lavin gets". As for the numbers, the man who only coached 11 years combined at two schools won 20 or more games in 9 of those 11 years and went to FIVE Sweet 16's.
Blaming Lavin for Mullin’s failures is foolish. We are the ones who hired an entire coaching staff with ZERO experience.
Soon some fans will blame the entire Big East for our poor recruiting and winning record. Actually, one sociopathic fan is already doing that. As I said many posts ago, don't bring up Lavin to embellish the current state of the program.
Finally, when Mr. Slyfox said " if Lavin had to coach the players Mullin did in his first season , we might have gone 0 for the season", he should remember that we went 1-17 in conference games that year. That's pretty close to zero imo.
I'm not sure if this was a pro or anti Mullin post.
To quote loving father Mr. Owens: Men lie, women lie, but numbers don't lie.
Our venerable basketball legend has just completed his 3rd straight losing season and so far other than Ponds, I don't see any impact recruits knocking down the door to play for him. In fact, I don't see him knocking on any doors either. Hopefully he learns recruiting 101 while completing his introductory course in coaching 101. It never fails to amaze me that so many here need to justify the, to-date, failed Mullin experiment by knocking a former coach who took the program to 4 post season tourney appearances. Yes, after his cancer he lost his mojo recruiting but I recall some posters here in his first couple of years bragging "who Lavin wants, Lavin gets". As for the numbers, the man who only coached 11 years combined at two schools won 20 or more games in 9 of those 11 years and went to FIVE Sweet 16's.
Blaming Lavin for Mullin’s failures is foolish. We are the ones who hired an entire coaching staff with ZERO experience.
Soon some fans will blame the entire Big East for our poor recruiting and winning record. Actually, one sociopathic fan is already doing that. As I said many posts ago, don't bring up Lavin to embellish the current state of the program.
Finally, when Mr. Slyfox said " if Lavin had to coach the players Mullin did in his first season , we might have gone 0 for the season", he should remember that we went 1-17 in conference games that year. That's pretty close to zero imo.
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[quote="Class of 72" post=278257][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=278245]If Lavin had to Coach the Players Mullin did in his first season , we might hhave gone 0 for the Season . Lavin had lost whatever motivated him to come here , long before his last Season . He got DLO, Pointer, Greene, Branch , Jordan , Obepka , through their Last Year here and had nothing left in the Cupboard and he knew it . As for those naysayers again, Mullin and Staff got Ponds to come here . Convinced Lovett to come and sit out as partial qualifier and then play . Kept Mussini as a freshman and had him play the point and be the Team’s best player . Brought Simon and Clarke here . Found space for Owens as a transfer from Tenn. Recruited Ahmed from Jr College . Recruited Yakwe and Sima , coveted HS players that unfortunately did not pan out . Convinced Pervis Ellison and son , Malik to come to St John’s for 2 Years . Brought in Williams and got a serviceable year from him , before he self destructed at Nevada . Next year we have Dixon , Diakite, Williams , Roberts and who knows what 5 th year Player we may wind up with . So , while not all these Players were all successes , they were in most quarters highly sought after Players . Simon and Clarke were top 100 players in HS . Getting them to come here , no small accomplishment . Brooks ? Disappointing but , how do you explain a decommit from a School involved in Recruting violations , commit to us and then , go back to USC? Can’t find blame there .[/quote]
I'm not sure if this was a pro or anti Mullin post.
To quote loving father Mr. Owens: Men lie, women lie, but numbers don't lie.
Our venerable basketball legend has just completed his 3rd straight losing season and so far other than Ponds, I don't see any impact recruits knocking down the door to play for him. In fact, I don't see him knocking on any doors either. Hopefully he learns recruiting 101 while completing his introductory course in coaching 101. It never fails to amaze me that so many here need to justify the, to-date, failed Mullin experiment by knocking a former coach who took the program to 4 post season tourney appearances. Yes, after his cancer he lost his mojo recruiting but I recall some posters here in his first couple of years bragging "who Lavin wants, Lavin gets". As for the numbers, the man who only coached 11 years combined at two schools won 20 or more games in 9 of those 11 years and went to FIVE Sweet 16's.
Blaming Lavin for Mullin’s failures is foolish. We are the ones who hired an entire coaching staff with ZERO experience.
Soon some fans will blame the entire Big East for our poor recruiting and winning record. Actually, one sociopathic fan is already doing that. As I said many posts ago, don't bring up Lavin to embellish the current state of the program.
Finally, when Mr. Slyfox said " if Lavin had to coach the players Mullin did in his first season , we might have gone 0 for the season", he should remember that we went 1-17 in conference games that year. That's pretty close to zero imo.[/quote]
As always, my position disregards Mullin's first year. So Mullin, who can't coach, can't recruit or do anything seemingly but piss off all the experts on this board has a two year record comparable to recent coaching legends in his first two years. Explain that to me, please. Not with your usual generalized blather but with substance. I am not a stat guy but they say something over the course of a season.
Let's look at defense first, playing a helter-skelter uptempo offense (more later), we finished 3rd in the conference in points allowed per game, 1st in field goal defense, 1st in steals and blocks; admittedly steals and blocks are not always positive stats, but combined with the points allowed they have some credibility. We were 1st in the conference in turnover margin. Negative defensive stat, we were 8th in 3 point defense %. But did we accomplish that with pure luck? No coaching, lousy players? No, but we did accomplish it with a limited roster, not to mention our best offensive player treating defense as a potential way to catch a communicable disease a good deal of the time.
Okay, offense, from my perspective, the most positive thing I can say is the staff has stuck to their guns and maybe with more time and experienced players the pro-system will eventually work. At times it did, but they were too few and far between for my taste. I do not like the offensive approach on the college level; too much one on one, too much jacking, too much standing around.
Intangibles if you will. No one can deny Mullin and staff did not lose this team, even after Lovett quit and we lost 11 games in a row. In my mind, that means a lot but even to the most ardent Mullin hater it has to count for something.
So am I sold on Mullin? No. Do I think he has done the horrible job you and others are trying to sell? No, not even close.
I'm not sure if this was a pro or anti Mullin post.
To quote loving father Mr. Owens: Men lie, women lie, but numbers don't lie.
Our venerable basketball legend has just completed his 3rd straight losing season and so far other than Ponds, I don't see any impact recruits knocking down the door to play for him. In fact, I don't see him knocking on any doors either. Hopefully he learns recruiting 101 while completing his introductory course in coaching 101. It never fails to amaze me that so many here need to justify the, to-date, failed Mullin experiment by knocking a former coach who took the program to 4 post season tourney appearances. Yes, after his cancer he lost his mojo recruiting but I recall some posters here in his first couple of years bragging "who Lavin wants, Lavin gets". As for the numbers, the man who only coached 11 years combined at two schools won 20 or more games in 9 of those 11 years and went to FIVE Sweet 16's.
Blaming Lavin for Mullin’s failures is foolish. We are the ones who hired an entire coaching staff with ZERO experience.
Soon some fans will blame the entire Big East for our poor recruiting and winning record. Actually, one sociopathic fan is already doing that. As I said many posts ago, don't bring up Lavin to embellish the current state of the program.
Finally, when Mr. Slyfox said " if Lavin had to coach the players Mullin did in his first season , we might have gone 0 for the season", he should remember that we went 1-17 in conference games that year. That's pretty close to zero imo.[/quote]
As always, my position disregards Mullin's first year. So Mullin, who can't coach, can't recruit or do anything seemingly but piss off all the experts on this board has a two year record comparable to recent coaching legends in his first two years. Explain that to me, please. Not with your usual generalized blather but with substance. I am not a stat guy but they say something over the course of a season.
Let's look at defense first, playing a helter-skelter uptempo offense (more later), we finished 3rd in the conference in points allowed per game, 1st in field goal defense, 1st in steals and blocks; admittedly steals and blocks are not always positive stats, but combined with the points allowed they have some credibility. We were 1st in the conference in turnover margin. Negative defensive stat, we were 8th in 3 point defense %. But did we accomplish that with pure luck? No coaching, lousy players? No, but we did accomplish it with a limited roster, not to mention our best offensive player treating defense as a potential way to catch a communicable disease a good deal of the time.
Okay, offense, from my perspective, the most positive thing I can say is the staff has stuck to their guns and maybe with more time and experienced players the pro-system will eventually work. At times it did, but they were too few and far between for my taste. I do not like the offensive approach on the college level; too much one on one, too much jacking, too much standing around.
Intangibles if you will. No one can deny Mullin and staff did not lose this team, even after Lovett quit and we lost 11 games in a row. In my mind, that means a lot but even to the most ardent Mullin hater it has to count for something.
So am I sold on Mullin? No. Do I think he has done the horrible job you and others are trying to sell? No, not even close.
72, I am pro Mullin . Sorry you couldn’t learn that . But , I mean no offense . Lavin is mentionable , because he is mentionable . He was solely responsible for the empty Cupboard in 2015 . Not Mullin ! If you think otherwise . And , didn’t Mullin’s teams beat Syracuse twice , albeit with a undermanned team . Beat Duke and Nova this year ? The Lavinites use Steve as the Anti Mullin . If that is your view , fine . But, like the faithful at UCLA promised when Lavin was hired here , be forewarned he will ultimately fail and your Progran with it . Steve had a very good , that proved to be overrated first Recruting class of DLO, Pointer, Harkless, Greene, Garrett . Jakarr did not qualify and threw open his Recruting , do you remember ? He eventually came here but, while a nice player , wasn’t a Impact contributor . After that , Steve did bring in Jordan and Obepka and Branch . None , ever approached their HS rankings as top players . And , Jordan and Obepka bailed , How did that turn our for them and us ? You are not giving Chris any credit for keeping Lovett as a recruit , though it was disappointing he did not qualify and sat out a year . . Plus , you give Mullin no credit for Owens ? And , none for Simon and Clarke ? Ridiculous and not fair on your part . In case you forgot , Lavin was brought here and paid very nicely to succeed Norm . He was left a team of 9 Seniors who has played together already . He did discover that Hardy was the best player of that Group and let him have a great year . That team of Notm’s made the NCAA and was trounced in the first round to Gonzaga in a rout . That game showed me that Lavin had no great Coaching genes at all . He let Few dictate the whole game and had no even remote strategy to make the game competitive . If many here think Mullin looks lost on the sidelines , look at the video of that Gonzaga game and see Lavin’s in sidelines demeanor . He was about as useless as a spectator . While Ponds was a highly sought recruit in the top 100, it has been Mullin and Richmond who have taken his skills and made him into arguably into a next season favorite for BE player of the Year ! Sure , he was asked to do too much this year . But , he nearly did it all except be found in the gym at midnight shooting 3 pointers . And , maybe he was there. No one likes the result this season but, the Roster was flawed when Lovett abandoned ship . In the middle of the Season . How do you replace 18-20 points a game when your bench is thin to begin with ? And , remove a Lovett and not suffer dire results ? So , the time is approaching when no finger can be pointed at Lavin for the Program’s descent . It’s not yet here though .
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[quote="Class of 72" post=278257][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=278245]If Lavin had to Coach the Players Mullin did in his first season , we might hhave gone 0 for the Season . Lavin had lost whatever motivated him to come here , long before his last Season . He got DLO, Pointer, Greene, Branch , Jordan , Obepka , through their Last Year here and had nothing left in the Cupboard and he knew it . As for those naysayers again, Mullin and Staff got Ponds to come here . Convinced Lovett to come and sit out as partial qualifier and then play . Kept Mussini as a freshman and had him play the point and be the Team’s best player . Brought Simon and Clarke here . Found space for Owens as a transfer from Tenn. Recruited Ahmed from Jr College . Recruited Yakwe and Sima , coveted HS players that unfortunately did not pan out . Convinced Pervis Ellison and son , Malik to come to St John’s for 2 Years . Brought in Williams and got a serviceable year from him , before he self destructed at Nevada . Next year we have Dixon , Diakite, Williams , Roberts and who knows what 5 th year Player we may wind up with . So , while not all these Players were all successes , they were in most quarters highly sought after Players . Simon and Clarke were top 100 players in HS . Getting them to come here , no small accomplishment . Brooks ? Disappointing but , how do you explain a decommit from a School involved in Recruting violations , commit to us and then , go back to USC? Can’t find blame there .[/quote]
I'm not sure if this was a pro or anti Mullin post.
To quote loving father Mr. Owens: Men lie, women lie, but numbers don't lie.
Our venerable basketball legend has just completed his 3rd straight losing season and so far other than Ponds, I don't see any impact recruits knocking down the door to play for him. In fact, I don't see him knocking on any doors either. Hopefully he learns recruiting 101 while completing his introductory course in coaching 101. It never fails to amaze me that so many here need to justify the, to-date, failed Mullin experiment by knocking a former coach who took the program to 4 post season tourney appearances. Yes, after his cancer he lost his mojo recruiting but I recall some posters here in his first couple of years bragging "who Lavin wants, Lavin gets". As for the numbers, the man who only coached 11 years combined at two schools won 20 or more games in 9 of those 11 years and went to FIVE Sweet 16's.
Blaming Lavin for Mullin’s failures is foolish. We are the ones who hired an entire coaching staff with ZERO experience.
Soon some fans will blame the entire Big East for our poor recruiting and winning record. Actually, one sociopathic fan is already doing that. As I said many posts ago, don't bring up Lavin to embellish the current state of the program.
Finally, when Mr. Slyfox said " if Lavin had to coach the players Mullin did in his first season , we might have gone 0 for the season", he should remember that we went 1-17 in conference games that year. That's pretty close to zero imo.[/quote]
If you gotta attempt to drag a person down to build up someone else, then that tells me all about the latter or what's perceived about the latter.
That's what we have here per a very, small group (but, mainly two or three posters). Frankly, with each passing day and mentioning Lavin to absolve Mullin already tells me what those folks subconsciously think.
As, I've said before.... It's deflection and mental gymnastics. Aesthetics. BS.
I'm not sure if this was a pro or anti Mullin post.
To quote loving father Mr. Owens: Men lie, women lie, but numbers don't lie.
Our venerable basketball legend has just completed his 3rd straight losing season and so far other than Ponds, I don't see any impact recruits knocking down the door to play for him. In fact, I don't see him knocking on any doors either. Hopefully he learns recruiting 101 while completing his introductory course in coaching 101. It never fails to amaze me that so many here need to justify the, to-date, failed Mullin experiment by knocking a former coach who took the program to 4 post season tourney appearances. Yes, after his cancer he lost his mojo recruiting but I recall some posters here in his first couple of years bragging "who Lavin wants, Lavin gets". As for the numbers, the man who only coached 11 years combined at two schools won 20 or more games in 9 of those 11 years and went to FIVE Sweet 16's.
Blaming Lavin for Mullin’s failures is foolish. We are the ones who hired an entire coaching staff with ZERO experience.
Soon some fans will blame the entire Big East for our poor recruiting and winning record. Actually, one sociopathic fan is already doing that. As I said many posts ago, don't bring up Lavin to embellish the current state of the program.
Finally, when Mr. Slyfox said " if Lavin had to coach the players Mullin did in his first season , we might have gone 0 for the season", he should remember that we went 1-17 in conference games that year. That's pretty close to zero imo.[/quote]
If you gotta attempt to drag a person down to build up someone else, then that tells me all about the latter or what's perceived about the latter.
That's what we have here per a very, small group (but, mainly two or three posters). Frankly, with each passing day and mentioning Lavin to absolve Mullin already tells me what those folks subconsciously think.
As, I've said before.... It's deflection and mental gymnastics. Aesthetics. BS.
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[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=278296]72, I am pro Mullin . Sorry you couldn’t learn that . But , I mean no offense . Lavin is mentionable , because he is mentionable . He was solely responsible for the empty Cupboard in 2015 . Not Mullin ! If you think otherwise . And , didn’t Mullin’s teams beat Syracuse twice , albeit with a undermanned team . Beat Duke and Nova this year ? The Lavinites use Steve as the Anti Mullin . If that is your view , fine . But, like the faithful at UCLA promised when Lavin was hired here , be forewarned he will ultimately fail and your Progran with it . Steve had a very good , that proved to be overrated first Recruting class of DLO, Pointer, Harkless, Greene, Garrett . Jakarr did not qualify and threw open his Recruting , do you remember ? He eventually came here but, while a nice player , wasn’t a Impact contributor . After that , Steve did bring in Jordan and Obepka and Branch . None , ever approached their HS rankings as top players . And , Jordan and Obepka bailed , How did that turn our for them and us ? You are not giving Chris any credit for keeping Lovett as a recruit , though it was disappointing he did not qualify and sat out a year . . Plus , you give Mullin no credit for Owens ? And , none for Simon and Clarke ? Ridiculous and not fair on your part . In case you forgot , Lavin was brought here and paid very nicely to succeed Norm . He was left a team of 9 Seniors who has played together already . He did discover that Hardy was the best player of that Group and let him have a great year . That team of Notm’s made the NCAA and was trounced in the first round to Gonzaga in a rout . That game showed me that Lavin had no great Coaching genes at all . He let Few dictate the whole game and had no even remote strategy to make the game competitive . If many here think Mullin looks lost on the sidelines , look at the video of that Gonzaga game and see Lavin’s in sidelines demeanor . He was about as useless as a spectator . While Ponds was a highly sought recruit in the top 100, it has been Mullin and Richmond who have taken his skills and made him into arguably into a next season favorite for BE player of the Year ! Sure , he was asked to do too much this year . But , he nearly did it all except be found in the gym at midnight shooting 3 pointers . And , maybe he was there. No one likes the result this season but, the Roster was flawed when Lovett abandoned ship . In the middle of the Season . How do you replace 18-20 points a game when your bench is thin to begin with ? And , remove a Lovett and not suffer dire results ? So , the time is approaching when no finger can be pointed at Lavin for the Program’s descent . It’s not yet here though .[/quote]
Haha! Really, dude? Who are you trying to convince by continuously parroting this stuff?
I could dissect this up like a cadaver, if I really wanted to do so.
Haha! Really, dude? Who are you trying to convince by continuously parroting this stuff?
I could dissect this up like a cadaver, if I really wanted to do so.
[quote="Logen" post=278294][quote="Class of 72" post=278257][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=278245]If Lavin had to Coach the Players Mullin did in his first season , we might hhave gone 0 for the Season . Lavin had lost whatever motivated him to come here , long before his last Season . He got DLO, Pointer, Greene, Branch , Jordan , Obepka , through their Last Year here and had nothing left in the Cupboard and he knew it . As for those naysayers again, Mullin and Staff got Ponds to come here . Convinced Lovett to come and sit out as partial qualifier and then play . Kept Mussini as a freshman and had him play the point and be the Team’s best player . Brought Simon and Clarke here . Found space for Owens as a transfer from Tenn. Recruited Ahmed from Jr College . Recruited Yakwe and Sima , coveted HS players that unfortunately did not pan out . Convinced Pervis Ellison and son , Malik to come to St John’s for 2 Years . Brought in Williams and got a serviceable year from him , before he self destructed at Nevada . Next year we have Dixon , Diakite, Williams , Roberts and who knows what 5 th year Player we may wind up with . So , while not all these Players were all successes , they were in most quarters highly sought after Players . Simon and Clarke were top 100 players in HS . Getting them to come here , no small accomplishment . Brooks ? Disappointing but , how do you explain a decommit from a School involved in Recruting violations , commit to us and then , go back to USC? Can’t find blame there .[/quote]
I'm not sure if this was a pro or anti Mullin post.
To quote loving father Mr. Owens: Men lie, women lie, but numbers don't lie.
Our venerable basketball legend has just completed his 3rd straight losing season and so far other than Ponds, I don't see any impact recruits knocking down the door to play for him. In fact, I don't see him knocking on any doors either. Hopefully he learns recruiting 101 while completing his introductory course in coaching 101. It never fails to amaze me that so many here need to justify the, to-date, failed Mullin experiment by knocking a former coach who took the program to 4 post season tourney appearances. Yes, after his cancer he lost his mojo recruiting but I recall some posters here in his first couple of years bragging "who Lavin wants, Lavin gets". As for the numbers, the man who only coached 11 years combined at two schools won 20 or more games in 9 of those 11 years and went to FIVE Sweet 16's.
Blaming Lavin for Mullin’s failures is foolish. We are the ones who hired an entire coaching staff with ZERO experience.
Soon some fans will blame the entire Big East for our poor recruiting and winning record. Actually, one sociopathic fan is already doing that. As I said many posts ago, don't bring up Lavin to embellish the current state of the program.
Finally, when Mr. Slyfox said " if Lavin had to coach the players Mullin did in his first season , we might have gone 0 for the season", he should remember that we went 1-17 in conference games that year. That's pretty close to zero imo.[/quote]
As always, my position disregards Mullin's first year. So Mullin, who can't coach, can't recruit or do anything seemingly but piss off all the experts on this board has a two year record comparable to recent coaching legends in his first two years. Explain that to me, please. Not with your usual generalized blather but with substance. I am not a stat guy but they say something over the course of a season.
Let's look at defense first, playing a helter-skelter uptempo offense (more later), we finished 3rd in the conference in points allowed per game, 1st in field goal defense, 1st in steals and blocks; admittedly steals and blocks are not always positive stats, but combined with the points allowed they have some credibility. We were 1st in the conference in turnover margin. Negative defensive stat, we were 8th in 3 point defense %. But did we accomplish that with pure luck? No coaching, lousy players? No, but we did accomplish it with a limited roster, not to mention our best offensive player treating defense as a potential way to catch a communicable disease a good deal of the time.
Okay, offense, from my perspective, the most positive thing I can say is the staff has stuck to their guns and maybe with more time and experienced players the pro-system will eventually work. At times it did, but they were too few and far between for my taste. I do not like the offensive approach on the college level; too much one on one, too much jacking, too much standing around.
Intangibles if you will. No one can deny Mullin and staff did not lose this team, even after Lovett quit and we lost 11 games in a row. In my mind, that means a lot but even to the most ardent Mullin hater it has to count for something.
So am I sold on Mullin? No. Do I think he has done the horrible job you and others are trying to sell? No, not even close.[/quote]
The difference between those coaching legends, as you say, is they did have coaching experience. If you think that doesn't account for anything, then you're wrong.
I'll give Mullin a pass his first year, but the record still counts. I bet you wouldn't be so dismissive of Mullin's record his first season if we had put together a halfway decent season.
I've given the team props for not quitting and playing decent-to-good defense throughout the season. But, I'm not gonna ignore the elephant in the room, either (ie, Slice fiasco, overall, assistant coaching situation, below average coaching, player transfers, roster management, only one recruiter).
There's no doubting this was a "not so good" situation three years ago, but this also wasn't a position that was dealing in postseason or scholarship banishments, either.
It's time to shit or get off the pot.
I'm not sure if this was a pro or anti Mullin post.
To quote loving father Mr. Owens: Men lie, women lie, but numbers don't lie.
Our venerable basketball legend has just completed his 3rd straight losing season and so far other than Ponds, I don't see any impact recruits knocking down the door to play for him. In fact, I don't see him knocking on any doors either. Hopefully he learns recruiting 101 while completing his introductory course in coaching 101. It never fails to amaze me that so many here need to justify the, to-date, failed Mullin experiment by knocking a former coach who took the program to 4 post season tourney appearances. Yes, after his cancer he lost his mojo recruiting but I recall some posters here in his first couple of years bragging "who Lavin wants, Lavin gets". As for the numbers, the man who only coached 11 years combined at two schools won 20 or more games in 9 of those 11 years and went to FIVE Sweet 16's.
Blaming Lavin for Mullin’s failures is foolish. We are the ones who hired an entire coaching staff with ZERO experience.
Soon some fans will blame the entire Big East for our poor recruiting and winning record. Actually, one sociopathic fan is already doing that. As I said many posts ago, don't bring up Lavin to embellish the current state of the program.
Finally, when Mr. Slyfox said " if Lavin had to coach the players Mullin did in his first season , we might have gone 0 for the season", he should remember that we went 1-17 in conference games that year. That's pretty close to zero imo.[/quote]
As always, my position disregards Mullin's first year. So Mullin, who can't coach, can't recruit or do anything seemingly but piss off all the experts on this board has a two year record comparable to recent coaching legends in his first two years. Explain that to me, please. Not with your usual generalized blather but with substance. I am not a stat guy but they say something over the course of a season.
Let's look at defense first, playing a helter-skelter uptempo offense (more later), we finished 3rd in the conference in points allowed per game, 1st in field goal defense, 1st in steals and blocks; admittedly steals and blocks are not always positive stats, but combined with the points allowed they have some credibility. We were 1st in the conference in turnover margin. Negative defensive stat, we were 8th in 3 point defense %. But did we accomplish that with pure luck? No coaching, lousy players? No, but we did accomplish it with a limited roster, not to mention our best offensive player treating defense as a potential way to catch a communicable disease a good deal of the time.
Okay, offense, from my perspective, the most positive thing I can say is the staff has stuck to their guns and maybe with more time and experienced players the pro-system will eventually work. At times it did, but they were too few and far between for my taste. I do not like the offensive approach on the college level; too much one on one, too much jacking, too much standing around.
Intangibles if you will. No one can deny Mullin and staff did not lose this team, even after Lovett quit and we lost 11 games in a row. In my mind, that means a lot but even to the most ardent Mullin hater it has to count for something.
So am I sold on Mullin? No. Do I think he has done the horrible job you and others are trying to sell? No, not even close.[/quote]
The difference between those coaching legends, as you say, is they did have coaching experience. If you think that doesn't account for anything, then you're wrong.
I'll give Mullin a pass his first year, but the record still counts. I bet you wouldn't be so dismissive of Mullin's record his first season if we had put together a halfway decent season.
I've given the team props for not quitting and playing decent-to-good defense throughout the season. But, I'm not gonna ignore the elephant in the room, either (ie, Slice fiasco, overall, assistant coaching situation, below average coaching, player transfers, roster management, only one recruiter).
There's no doubting this was a "not so good" situation three years ago, but this also wasn't a position that was dealing in postseason or scholarship banishments, either.
It's time to shit or get off the pot.
I've been reading all the coach talk posted and some thoughts came to mind. How do you get coaching experience? Primarily by being an assistant coach or by being a head coach. Well Mullin and staff now have 3 years experience. They've learned on the job with less than a well stocked roster. I look forward to better in-game decision making. Now I hope they ALL learn how to RECRUIT.
[quote="Knight" post=278303]I've been reading all the coach talk posted and some thoughts came to mind. How do you get coaching experience? Primarily by being an assistant coach or by being a head coach. Well Mullin and staff now have 3 years experience. They've learned on the job with less than a well stocked roster. I look forward to better in-game decision making. Now I hope they ALL learn how to RECRUIT.[/quote] Staff makeup wasn’t good. When Slice left Mitch shouldn’t have been promoted And an experienced assistant should have been hired.Staff only has 1 recruiter and little experience while learning on the job.