Criticism

Serious, serious posts on this thread so I thought I'd bring a little levity. For those of you who think CMA's system of quote unquote "40 minutes of hell" is antiquated maybe for our next coach we can bring in Phil Jackson and his triangle offense. It seemed to work wonders for the Knicks. ;) :)
 
[quote="bamafan" post=408686]Serious, serious posts on this thread so I thought I'd bring a little levity. For those of you who think CMA's system of quote unquote "40 minutes of hell" is antiquated maybe for our next coach we can bring in Phil Jackson and his triangle offense. It seemed to work wonders for the Knicks. ;) :)[/quote]

I liked CMA's line from very early last season: "Sometimes we will play 20 minutes of hell and 20 minutes of 'What the hell' but we will get better." He was right then, and I trust he will be right again in the end this season.
 
[quote="Monte" post=408626][quote="MJDinkins" post=408624][quote="Not an alum" post=408618]What kills me is when we defend well for 25 seconds than don’t rotate correctly and give up a wide open 3 end of shot clock

Not having a rim protector also hurts.[/quote]

I said to myself (and mentioned to another fan) that someone like Obekpa would be ideal for this team.[/quote]

I said exact same thing. Scary! lol. Over past 20 years, I'd say we've had 3 competent low post players. Obekpa, Burrell and Lamont Hamilton. Don't think I'm missing anyone. All 3 were mobile enough to play in CMA's system. Wish we had someone like any of those 3, but agree that Obekpa would be best fit.[/quote]

Obekpa was horrible with the ball in his hands IMO, and he also often left his man to try to block shots are far away as the corner.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=408692][quote="Monte" post=408626][quote="MJDinkins" post=408624][quote="Not an alum" post=408618]What kills me is when we defend well for 25 seconds than don’t rotate correctly and give up a wide open 3 end of shot clock

Not having a rim protector also hurts.[/quote]

I said to myself (and mentioned to another fan) that someone like Obekpa would be ideal for this team.[/quote]

I said exact same thing. Scary! lol. Over past 20 years, I'd say we've had 3 competent low post players. Obekpa, Burrell and Lamont Hamilton. Don't think I'm missing anyone. All 3 were mobile enough to play in CMA's system. Wish we had someone like any of those 3, but agree that Obekpa would be best fit.[/quote]

Obekpa was horrible with the ball in his hands IMO, and he also often left his man to try to block shots are far away as the corner.[/quote]

Still light years ahead of what we have in the middle now, which is pretty much nothing
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=408654]Lawmanfan, nice post. I may disagree with some stuff there, but I can see where you're coming from. Unfortunately I don't see us being PC or Xavier in year 3 or 4. I think our ceiling is low with the 40 min of hell style mixed with the lack of talent and size. I can't really see us finishing any better than 7th out of 11, because so far we cannot win in conference play on any regular basis. We can't even come close to .500. Our poor starts year after year all but cement this fact even when the seasons start with hope. I think our program is used to a losing culture by now.[/quote]

Someone quoted in the article that I posted earlier in this thread IMO said it best when he said; "Anderson has a high floor and a low ceiling".
 
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Curious if people would sign up for:
League record: 3-15, 3-15, 7-13, 11-9, pre-season picked 5th
Recruiting rankings: 63, 51, 125, 40: including only 1 4* recruit
Or would fans have wanted to fire that coach after year two?
I get people are disappointed with the last 2 games, but programs aren't rebuilt within a year.
 
[quote="gman" post=408728]Curious if people would sign up for:
League record: 3-15, 3-15, 7-13, 11-9, pre-season picked 5th
Recruiting rankings: 63, 51, 125, 40: including only 1 4* recruit
Or would fans have wanted to fire that coach after year two?
I get people are disappointed with the last 2 games, but programs aren't rebuilt within a year.[/quote]

Gman, the only thing I'll sing up for is real improvement for next year. I don't even care about this year anymore, we probably will finish 9th, but that's how it is.
Cma will have a team with experience next year, should be no excuses for a bad start next year (they'll be 0-3 after Creighton), and atleast a top 5 finish next year.
Time to be taking serious again, 20 years is enough.
Ohhh and just one ncaa win, and I'm satisfied.

That's what I'll sign up for gman.
 
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[quote="EliteBaller K" post=408730][quote="gman" post=408728]Curious if people would sign up for:
League record: 3-15, 3-15, 7-13, 11-9, pre-season picked 5th
Recruiting rankings: 63, 51, 125, 40: including only 1 4* recruit
Or would fans have wanted to fire that coach after year two?
I get people are disappointed with the last 2 games, but programs aren't rebuilt within a year.[/quote]

Gman, the only thing I'll sing up for is real improvement for next year. I don't even care about this year anymore, we probably will finish 9th, but that's how it is.
Cma will have a team with experience next year, should be no excuses for a bad start next year (they'll be 0-3 after Creighton), and atleast a top 5 finish next year.
Time to be taking serious again, 20 years is enough.
Ohhh and just one ncaa win, and I'm satisfied.

That's what I'll sign up for gman.[/quote]

Didn't you predict that we would vie for the conference championship?
 
[quote="gman" post=408728]Curious if people would sign up for:
League record: 3-15, 3-15, 7-13, 11-9, pre-season picked 5th
Recruiting rankings: 63, 51, 125, 40: including only 1 4* recruit
Or would fans have wanted to fire that coach after year two?
I get people are disappointed with the last 2 games, but programs aren't rebuilt within a year.[/quote]

The problem is that everyone on this board likes to bring up CMAs big time track record at his prior stops. He's been successful at big programs like Missouri and Arkansas and this is Pikiels first job at a big school. Two completely different things. Look at what Barnes is doing at Tenn, Musselman at Arkansas etc. If this were a new coach coming from a Mid major or as an assistant from a big school that would be one thing, but shouldlnt kids want to come play for a coach who's won at big programs and never had a losing season? Gotta go both ways
 
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[quote="TheArtest15" post=408732][quote="gman" post=408728]Curious if people would sign up for:
League record: 3-15, 3-15, 7-13, 11-9, pre-season picked 5th
Recruiting rankings: 63, 51, 125, 40: including only 1 4* recruit
Or would fans have wanted to fire that coach after year two?
I get people are disappointed with the last 2 games, but programs aren't rebuilt within a year.[/quote]

The problem is that everyone on this board likes to bring up CMAs big time track record at his prior stops. He's been successful at big programs like Missouri and Arkansas and this is Pikiels first job at a big school. Two completely different things. Look at what Barnes is doing at Tenn, Musselman at Arkansas etc. If this were a new coach coming from a Mid major or as an assistant from a big school that would be one thing, but shouldlnt kids want to come play for a coach who's won at big programs and never had a losing season? Gotta go both ways[/quote]

And the issue is that his track record of recruiting did not follow him here, at least yet. I think that's one of the major concerns some fans have. He hasn't proven he can win with this talent. Only better talent. Maybe it will get better, but right now the only players we have that would probably start on good Big East teams are Champ and maybe Posh. The rest have their good to great games here and there, but are not starting on a Creighton or other good teams. I hope Pinzon turns out to be the real deal. If he is that would be: Posh, Champ, Pinzon as a potentially solid 3 headed monster. We still need real shooters and real bigs though or I don't see us moving the needle.
 
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Let’s compare Anderson vs Musselman:
Anderson inherited a team that went 21-13 and went to the NCAA
Musselman inherited a team that went 18-16 and went to the NIT

Anderson’s first year went 17-15 and finished T-8th in conference of 10 with non conference wins over Arizona and WVA and a loss to Az St.
Musselman first year went 20-12 and finished T-7th in conference out of 14 schools with non conference big wins vs Indiana, TCU and Georgia Tech.

Anderson’s 2nd year so far is 5-3 and 0-2 in conference and not ranked.
Musselman’ s 2nd year so far is 6-0 and 0-0 in conference and is receiving some points in both polls.

This season Anderson is barely squeaking by his out of conference opponents, where Musselman is blowing his out of conference opponents anywhere’s from 15-35 pts per game. We can argue that our games vs BYU and BC are stronger than Ark has played, but who can say Ark does not beat then both or go at least 1-1?

Just saying I would prefer the projected upwards path of the Musselman program now in year 2 of each program. Let’s see how the season plays out for both programs and do an end of year 2 comparison, taking into consideration RPI and NCAA ranking points. Because in the end, what we all want is a team that wins, and is ranked and goes to the post season NCAA’s. Fair?
 
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[quote="AJ Hidell" post=408747]Let’s compare Anderson vs Musselman:
Anderson inherited a team that went 21-13 and went to the NCAA
Musselman inherited a team that went 18-16 and went to the NIT

Anderson’s first year went 17-15 and finished T-8th in conference of 10 with non conference wins over Arizona and WVA and a loss to Az St.
Musselman first year went 20-12 and finished T-7th in conference out of 14 schools with non conference big wins vs Indiana, TCU and Georgia Tech.

Anderson’s 2nd year so far is 5-3 and 0-2 in conference and not ranked.
Musselman’ s 2nd year so far is 6-0 and 0-0 in conference and is receiving some points in both polls.

This season Anderson is barely squeaking by his out of conference opponents, where Musselman is blowing his out of conference opponents anywhere’s from 15-35 pts per game. We can argue that our games vs BYU and BC are stronger than Ark has played, but who can say Ark does not beat then both or go at least 1-1?

Just saying I would prefer the projected upwards path of the Musselman program now in year 2 of each program. Let’s see how the season plays out for both programs and then do an end of year 2 comparison, taking into consideration RPI and NCAA ranking points. Because in the end, what we all want is a team that wins, and is ranked and goes to the post season NCAA’s. Fair?[/quote]
 
[quote="AJ Hidell" post=408747]Let’s compare Anderson vs Musselman:
Anderson inherited a team that went 21-13 and went to the NCAA
Musselman inherited a team that went 18-16 and went to the NIT

Anderson’s first year went 17-15 and finished T-8th in conference of 10 with non conference wins over Arizona and WVA and a loss to Az St.
Musselman first year went 20-12 and finished T-7th in conference out of 14 schools with non conference big wins vs Indiana, TCU and Georgia Tech.

Anderson’s 2nd year so far is 5-3 and 0-2 in conference and not ranked.
Musselman’ s 2nd year so far is 6-0 and 0-0 in conference and is receiving some points in both polls.

This season Anderson is barely squeaking by his out of conference opponents, where Musselman is blowing his out of conference opponents anywhere’s from 15-35 pts per game. We can argue that our games vs BYU and BC are stronger than Ark has played, but who can say Ark does not beat then both or go at least 1-1?

Just saying I would prefer the projected upwards path of the Musselman program now in year 2 of each program. Let’s see how the season plays out for both programs and do an end of year 2 comparison, taking into consideration RPI and NCAA ranking points. Because in the end, what we all want is a team that wins, and is ranked and goes to the post season NCAA’s. Fair?[/quote]

Fair you say? Completely unfair Anderson did not inherit a 21-13 team. He was left with 2 players, one of whom was injured. It is unfair to compare the obstacles CMA faces in recruiting to a commuter school that hasn't won in forever to a big money school like Arkansas. Musselman started at 2.5 million per year, with bonuses. If he were at St. John's, he would be getting bashed by now too. I thought Anderson did a great job last season. The team filled with newcomers hastily put together played well together in a tough system to master. So far, this inexperienced team has had, like all teams with no senior leadership, some growing pains. Comparing St. John's to Arkansas is like comparing apples to oranges. The only person I know that can compare apples to oranges is a friend who manages the produce department at Publix Supermarket in Florida.
 
Whoa. Did you really just say SJ fanbase would be unhappy if Musselman was doing here what he's doing now at Ark? His statue would be built already. He has like 4-5 kids who are 4* and they have been a very good program under him only trending up. I'd be surprised if they weren't making tourneys most yrs and spending lots of time in top 25 very soon. Not to go off topic, but just responding to what was said. I think the important thing to remember is that CMA's likelihood of success here almost certainly depends on a significant uptick in recruiting. He brought some nice pieces here in Posh and Champ. But we need much more.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=408751]Whoa. Did you really just say SJ fanbase would be unhappy if Musselman was doing here what he's doing now at Ark? [/quote]

That's not at all what he said.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=408751]Whoa. Did you really just say SJ fanbase would be unhappy if Musselman was doing here what he's doing now at Ark? His statue would be built already. He has like 4-5 kids who are 4* and they have been a very good program under him only trending up. I'd be surprised if they weren't making tourneys most yrs and spending lots of time in top 25 very soon. Not to go off topic, but just responding to what was said. I think the important thing to remember is that CMA's likelihood of success here almost certainly depends on a significant uptick in recruiting. He brought some nice pieces here in Posh and Champ. But we need much more.[/quote]

Slice brought in 5 star recruits to Kentucky. He didn't bring in anyone here. There is little chance that Musselman would bring to St. John's players from Arkansas and indiana and Missouri like Musselman has to Arkansas. Maybe it will finally sink in, but CMA does not have the recruiting advantages Looie had, and Looie still had plenty of recruiting years where he only hit a single or double. No one has recruited well here since Fran, and he had an AAU connection that no longer exists. That's the reality.
 
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[quote="Ray Morgan" post=408753][quote="Mike Zaun" post=408751]Whoa. Did you really just say SJ fanbase would be unhappy if Musselman was doing here what he's doing now at Ark? His statue would be built already. He has like 4-5 kids who are 4* and they have been a very good program under him only trending up. I'd be surprised if they weren't making tourneys most yrs and spending lots of time in top 25 very soon. Not to go off topic, but just responding to what was said. I think the important thing to remember is that CMA's likelihood of success here almost certainly depends on a significant uptick in recruiting. He brought some nice pieces here in Posh and Champ. But we need much more.[/quote]

Slice brought in 5 star recruits to Kentucky. He didn't bring in anyone here. There is little chance that Musselman would bring to St. John's players from Arkansas and indiana and Missouri like Musselman has to Arkansas. Maybe it will finally sink in, but CMA does not have the recruiting advantages Looie had, and Looie still had plenty of recruiting years where he only hit a single or double. No one has recruited well here since Fran, and he had an AASU connection that no longer exists. That's the reality.[/quote]

Agree with it being a much easier sell to a Ark type vs. us. But Lavin and Mullin (Matt) proved you can bring very good talent here. We beat #4 Duke and #1 Villanova on talent alone under Mullin and we won 20+ a few times on talent alone under Lavin throttling Cuse twice plus a ranking. Bad coaches but good talent. I think CMA is at worst a solid coach, but we will need a few more guys at the Champ level to really compete. Without more A list players, we have Champ, Posh, and a bunch of role players IMO.
 
.... and another thread becomes a "Zaun (with some help from others) bashing Anderson's recruiting" thread.

1. Stay on topic. There's an Anderson thread that includes recruiting, notwithstanding the title of this one it was not started as a recruiting thread.

2. Repetitively posting the same thing over and over and over and over and over again - especially when you have been put on notice that it will not be tolerated since it amounts to spamming the site and violates the site rules - will get you suspended.

Don't say you were warned.
 
[quote="lawmanfan" post=408755].... and another thread becomes a "Zaun (with some help from others) bashing Anderson's recruiting" thread.

1. Stay on topic. There's an Anderson thread that includes recruiting, notwithstanding the title of this one it was not started as a recruiting thread.

2. Repetitively posting the same thing over and over and over and over and over again - especially when you have been put on notice that it will not be tolerated since it amounts to spamming the site and violates the site rules - will get you suspended.

Don't say you were warned.[/quote]

Be careful.... Remember, this is the ONLY fan base that is sensitive to coaching critiques.
 
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