Cragg provides Mullin with show of support

[quote="Paultzman" post=337837]Well one would think Cragg grants Mullin short extension this week or so or not. If the latter, that is telling imo and how CM reacts should be interesting.[/quote]

First glance, Short extension would be the "kicking the can down the road" approach.

I can't see that being ideal.

Will be interesting to see how this plays out this week and season.
 
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While I don’t like either option I prefer letting it ride one more year and saving two million dollars then an extension.
 
[quote="Section3" post=337759]I have no doubt that CM wants to win badly and, as I have said before, I truly believe there are some aspects that he does extremely well. But, college coaching (and probably sports coaching/managing at any level) is a career choice built upon a passion and is something you chase. In Chris’ case he was chased and the job seems more like a case of something he is trying his his hand at at.

An extension means nothing except something you can tell recruits in terms of your longevity at the position. IT does not have to be guaranteed.

I’m sure he wants to win but not sure whether he has that 50 week a year passion for a job that requires dogged pursuit and comes with a constant pressure to win. That’s not to say that he still can’t succeed. Just means he needs the right help around him.[/quote]

OR, with his brother's illness behind him (which were considerable), and other family issues waning, he should have much more energy to focus on giving this full throttle effort. Do you really think he wasn't at his brother's side frequently during his prolonged illness? Do you really think he shouldn't have headed home to see his family whenever time allowed? I think he accepted this job with the intent of burning it at both ends, but life got in the way.

My guess is that if Mullin does return for year 5, an extension of 2-4 years will be negotiated that is not fully guaranteed. For Roberts it was announced because overwhelming public sentiment was that he was on the ropes in year 6, and he was. When they terminated him after a weak 1st round NIT exit, he was probably owed little more than a token amount.
 
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[quote="Section3" post=337782][quote="Moose" post=337765][quote="bamafan" post=337764]Very telling that CM is not at the Final 4 where assistant coaches hob nob around and connections are made. Either CM isn't "long" for the job or he can't be bothered to attend. With almost any other coach only one of these alternatives would be possible.[/quote]

Don't think he went last year either[/quote]
Not sure if you or anyone on the board would know the answer to this question. do most coaches attend?[/quote]

There was a time when there was a coach's meeting at the Final Four and large numbers attended. I don't think that's the case any longer.
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=337837]Well one would think Cragg grants Mullin short extension this week or so or not. If the latter, that is telling imo and how CM reacts should be interesting.[/quote]

Actually, the more telling sign will be if we announce an assistant in the next week or so. If that happens Mullim will be back for certain. If there is negotiations around staff, it won't happen until Cragg returns from Minnesota. I'm wondering if there is any negotiation involving replacing Mitch to clear space for two experienced college assistants who could help recruit as well as on the bench. If Cragg wanted to remove MR, and Mullin resisted, that could be the catalyst for an exit now.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=337879][quote="Paultzman" post=337837]Well one would think Cragg grants Mullin short extension this week or so or not. If the latter, that is telling imo and how CM reacts should be interesting.[/quote]

Actually, the more telling sign will be if we announce an assistant in the next week or so. If that happens Mullim will be back for certain. If there is negotiations around staff, it won't happen until Cragg returns from Minnesota. I'm wondering if there is any negotiation involving replacing Mitch to clear space for two experienced college assistants who could help recruit as well as on the bench. If Cragg wanted to remove MR, and Mullin resisted, that could be the catalyst for an exit now.[/quote]

It's a standoff right now. Cragg already told him no on the extension.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=337883][quote="Beast of the East" post=337879][quote="Paultzman" post=337837]Well one would think Cragg grants Mullin short extension this week or so or not. If the latter, that is telling imo and how CM reacts should be interesting.[/quote]

Actually, the more telling sign will be if we announce an assistant in the next week or so. If that happens Mullim will be back for certain. If there is negotiations around staff, it won't happen until Cragg returns from Minnesota. I'm wondering if there is any negotiation involving replacing Mitch to clear space for two experienced college assistants who could help recruit as well as on the bench. If Cragg wanted to remove MR, and Mullin resisted, that could be the catalyst for an exit now.[/quote]

It's a standoff right now. Cragg already told him no on the extension.[/quote]

If you know that as a certainty, then that's a termination because he cannot recruit with just 2 years left on a deal. Now if what you say is true, it's little more than a game to force him to resign. Rather than play that game, it would be much better to simply tell him he is not wanted back, and go straight to negotiating a separation, with the payout variable between 6 mos to 1 year salary. No giving him an extension creates a lame duck. A non-guaranteed extension costs the university nothing.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=337890][quote="fordham96" post=337883][quote="Beast of the East" post=337879][quote="Paultzman" post=337837]Well one would think Cragg grants Mullin short extension this week or so or not. If the latter, that is telling imo and how CM reacts should be interesting.[/quote]

Actually, the more telling sign will be if we announce an assistant in the next week or so. If that happens Mullim will be back for certain. If there is negotiations around staff, it won't happen until Cragg returns from Minnesota. I'm wondering if there is any negotiation involving replacing Mitch to clear space for two experienced college assistants who could help recruit as well as on the bench. If Cragg wanted to remove MR, and Mullin resisted, that could be the catalyst for an exit now.[/quote]

It's a standoff right now. Cragg already told him no on the extension.[/quote]

If you know that as a certainty, then that's a termination because he cannot recruit with just 2 years left on a deal. Now if what you say is true, it's little more than a game to force him to resign. Rather than play that game, it would be much better to simply tell him he is not wanted back, and go straight to negotiating a separation, with the payout variable between 6 mos to 1 year salary. No giving him an extension creates a lame duck. A non-guaranteed extension costs the university nothing.[/quote]

That is why it is a standoff. I think within a week or so this is going to be resolved. He may come back but I don't think it is 100% guaranteed. But there is no question that he was told no on an extension last week and that is what caused the rumors to start flying.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=337891][quote="Beast of the East" post=337890][quote="fordham96" post=337883][quote="Beast of the East" post=337879][quote="Paultzman" post=337837]Well one would think Cragg grants Mullin short extension this week or so or not. If the latter, that is telling imo and how CM reacts should be interesting.[/quote]

Actually, the more telling sign will be if we announce an assistant in the next week or so. If that happens Mullim will be back for certain. If there is negotiations around staff, it won't happen until Cragg returns from Minnesota. I'm wondering if there is any negotiation involving replacing Mitch to clear space for two experienced college assistants who could help recruit as well as on the bench. If Cragg wanted to remove MR, and Mullin resisted, that could be the catalyst for an exit now.[/quote]

It's a standoff right now. Cragg already told him no on the extension.[/quote]

If you know that as a certainty, then that's a termination because he cannot recruit with just 2 years left on a deal. Now if what you say is true, it's little more than a game to force him to resign. Rather than play that game, it would be much better to simply tell him he is not wanted back, and go straight to negotiating a separation, with the payout variable between 6 mos to 1 year salary. No giving him an extension creates a lame duck. A non-guaranteed extension costs the university nothing.[/quote]

That is why it is a standoff. I think within a week or so this is going to be resolved. He may come back but I don't think it is 100% guaranteed. But there is no question that he was told no on an extension last week and that is what caused the rumors to start flying.[/quote]

Perhaps a guaranteed extension was denied, and I'd agree with that. A non-guaranteed extension makes the most sense for the program if CM is not inclined to resign.
 
What exactly is a non-guaranteed extension? Would it have clauses in place that require a certain amount of wins?

In that case, wouldn't it be a fake extension that recruits and potential ACs would see through?
 
[quote="Adam" post=337900]What exactly is a non-guaranteed extension? Would it have clauses in place that require a certain amount of wins?

In that case, wouldn't it be a fake extension that recruits and potential ACs would see through?[/quote]

I think he means a reasonable buyout for less than the total amount of what he would have on his deal.
 
[quote="Adam" post=337900]What exactly is a non-guaranteed extension? Would it have clauses in place that require a certain amount of wins?

In that case, wouldn't it be a fake extension that recruits and potential ACs would see through?[/quote]

It is just a relatively empty extension. On the surface it gives recruits more confidence that the coach will remain, but it allows the school to buyout or even cancel it depending on the terms. The terms can be just about anything the two sides agree on...it can be conditioned on a # of wins, a tournament appearance, etc.
 
[quote="Marillac" post=337905][quote="Adam" post=337900]What exactly is a non-guaranteed extension? Would it have clauses in place that require a certain amount of wins?

In that case, wouldn't it be a fake extension that recruits and potential ACs would see through?[/quote]

It is just a relatively empty extension. On the surface it gives recruits more confidence that the coach will remain, but it allows the school to buyout or even cancel it depending on the terms. The terms can be just about anything the two sides agree on...it can be conditioned on a # of wins, a tournament appearance, etc.[/quote]

How about # of trips to HS gyms to recruit by Coach Mitch and him?
 
I think evaluating retaining or moving on from Mullin at this time is less about what he's done to date and more what the short and long term prospects look like.

I don't buy the incremental year over year improvement angle, especially when you look at conference performances. But the reality is they did make the Tournament in Year 4, and others have noted strong attendance, fundraising, etc.

Given all of that, if staff and roster looked stable for next year + recruiting had been and continues to look strong? I doubt there would be much discussion. Which indicates this is more about projecting than just assessing the last 4 years.

And that projection is understandably challenging at the moment. Ponds - who committed to SJU in Fall 2015 - is the only U.S. high school recruit to average even 10ppg for this staff. That's how non-existent the high school recruiting has been for almost 4 years now, and it doesn't look promising for that to change next year. We just had one of the most talented starting lineups this program has had in 20 years, and couldn't surround it with a basic supporting cast to take the jump that first 5 was likely capable of. The recruiting just hasn't been there at anywhere near the level it needs be to compete higher in this conference and nationally. While program improvement isn't typically a straight line, next year currently looks less promising than this one largely as a result of subpar recruiting.

The entire staff is to blame for that, and it doesn't matter much to me whether that's Matt not having enough help, Matt not doing a comprehensive enough job, or some combination. It's unsatisfactory performance that likely needs fundamental change to both staff composition and approach beyond just hiring Matt's replacement.

The market dictates value. One way to look at this staff is, if all were suddenly free agents, would they be sought after for a similar role with another program? Matt, no matter how limited the skillset, has bona fide market value to recruit for other power conference programs, and is probably the only of last year's coaches you can say that definitively about. Would think Mitch is incredibly unlikely to draw interest as a full time assistant in a power conference. GSJ? I suppose it's possible given his dad's background and that he now has experience at SJU, but certainly not a lock he'd land a high-major assistant gig, might have to take a small step back.

Mullin? I doubt he'd be a candidate at places like VT, Alabama, Arkansas, etc. Maybe a place like Nevada closer to CA? I get that there might not be any other job he'd want besides this one which is great, but it would still be nice if he was doing such a quality job here that it was clear he'd at least generate interest for comparable positions. Don't think that is the case.

And that's a ridiculously challenging place for SJU and a new AD to be in. This is an SJU-specific opportunity that is unlikely to work anywhere else, if it can work at all. It has gone okay to this point, but doesn't look to be on a continued incline. And I think that is where the decision is.
 
Cragg is finding himself between a rock and a hard place. He is negotiating with a coach who was on board before he was hired and Mullin seems to hold all the cards. How can you work out a deal with a coach who knew he needed help in both strategy planning and high school recruiting and instead of bringing in personnel who could have helped in both these areas and raised the schools standing as well as his own he opts to protect his buddies jobs.
Mullin obviously hates recruiting and Cragg can't get him to do it unless he extends him putting it the new contract which will only force Mullin's ouster another year or two down the line and another one or two disappointing years for the team. His past actions these past three years show that Mullin doesn't have enough concern for getting players that will improve SJUs position if it requires his recruiting efforts or replacing his friends.
This must be a unique attitude for a college coach to take and must have Cragg wishing he was back at Duke.
 
I would think GSJ is doing this for experience to help land an NBA job. If he was interested in coaching college then he would be more involved in recruiting. An assistant position at St. John’s is a great opportunity for a mid major assistant coach that can recruit.
 
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[quote="Adam" post=337900]What exactly is a non-guaranteed extension? Would it have clauses in place that require a certain amount of wins?

In that case, wouldn't it be a fake extension that recruits and potential ACs would see through?[/quote]

Roberts extension did not supply details to the public. Contractually, it would be extremely rare if at all that performance of team is mandated.
 
[quote="Andrew" post=337911]I would think GSJ is doing this for experience to help land an NBA job. If he was interested in coaching college then he would be more involved in recruiting. An assistant position at St. John’s is a great opportunity for a mid major assistant coach that can recruit.[/quote]
Successful recruiters tend to be “salesmen” and relationship builders with a lot of sketchy guys in the AAU world. I never got the impression that Greg was built for that and he may be better suited for the technical and instructional side of things. I am not saying he could not play a complementary role in chasing players however.
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=337844][quote="Mike Zaun" post=337841]If you take the emotion out of it, below is his resume with what are IMO his pros and cons:

Pros:
-Legendary player and face of the program...aka he's Chris Mullin
-Helps draw big crowds when we are supposed to be good
-1 NCAA berth though last team in, appearance in top 25 1 time

Cons:
-32 games below .500 in 4 years of conference play including 0 that were .500 or better
-Well under .500 overall in 4 years
-Does not recruit hard if at all
-Does not do much of in game coaching and defers to GSJ
-Spends a lot of time away from campus especially in off-season
-Has reportedly refused to change coaching staff when given opportunity
-Position-less basketball with almost no emphasis in big men
-Green light to shoot even when shots are stupid...doesn't reel players in
-Repeatedly underachieves even with very good talent
-Tons of transfers that I believe lead the Big East (leaving us)
-Has yet to finish in top 5 in conference
-Poor player development


Just tried to be as objective as possible...if you can argue against any of those then I invite it. My point being...is this really someone you want heading your program?[/quote]

I have confidence Cragg will cut through the noise and make the right decision. Since SJU has burned through one AD after another in past few years, my opinion is Administration will back his recommendation within reason. Not doing so would risk losing a guy who appears to have the goods to raise $$, professionalize operations and plan for the future. Just my opinion.[/quote]

Hi Paultz. More than curious, what does “Administration will back his recommendation within reason” mean?
Guessing it means Cragg cannot force CM to replace more than the departed Matt and it comes down to $$.
The Admin will not approve a reasonable buyout since we can’t afford it, and we get CM, present staff +a New AC back and that’s it?
Got to say that’d be a very unsatisfactory result imo.
And I luv the guy, but he must not be permitted to run roughshod over something I love more: St. John’s.
No extension if Chris does not agree to replaceat least 2 ACs.
Suffer through 1 more season and revamp.
 
[quote="Chicago Days" post=337914][quote="Paultzman" post=337844][quote="Mike Zaun" post=337841]If you take the emotion out of it, below is his resume with what are IMO his pros and cons:

Pros:
-Legendary player and face of the program...aka he's Chris Mullin
-Helps draw big crowds when we are supposed to be good
-1 NCAA berth though last team in, appearance in top 25 1 time

Cons:
-32 games below .500 in 4 years of conference play including 0 that were .500 or better
-Well under .500 overall in 4 years
-Does not recruit hard if at all
-Does not do much of in game coaching and defers to GSJ
-Spends a lot of time away from campus especially in off-season
-Has reportedly refused to change coaching staff when given opportunity
-Position-less basketball with almost no emphasis in big men
-Green light to shoot even when shots are stupid...doesn't reel players in
-Repeatedly underachieves even with very good talent
-Tons of transfers that I believe lead the Big East (leaving us)
-Has yet to finish in top 5 in conference
-Poor player development


Just tried to be as objective as possible...if you can argue against any of those then I invite it. My point being...is this really someone you want heading your program?[/quote]

I have confidence Cragg will cut through the noise and make the right decision. Since SJU has burned through one AD after another in past few years, my opinion is Administration will back his recommendation within reason. Not doing so would risk losing a guy who appears to have the goods to raise $$, professionalize operations and plan for the future. Just my opinion.[/quote]

Hi Paultz. More than curious, what does “Administration will back his recommendation within reason” mean?
Guessing it means Cragg cannot force CM to replace more than the departed Matt and it comes down to $$.
The Admin will not approve a reasonable buyout since we can’t afford it, and we get CM, present staff +a New AC back and that’s it?
Got to say that’d be a very unsatisfactory result imo.
And I luv the guy, but he must not be permitted to run roughshod over something I love more: St. John’s.
No extension if Chris does not agree to replaceat least 2 ACs.
Suffer through 1 more season and revamp.[/quote]
Meaning Cragg strikes me as a professional capable of astutely assessing situations and mapping a strategy with the long term in mind. My gut says Administration will trust his judgment. Just my opinion. Let’s see how this plays out regarding the HC extension and subsequent staffing change for starters.
 
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