L J S A
Well-known member
Pitchforks would be warranted if Hurley wanted him back but Alleyne instead blew off a workout to take his girlfriend to Mohegan Sun.
@Connecticut, Sat., Dec. 23, 8p, FOX
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agree neither put in enough work ( Lavin did in the beginning ) but with Lavin I think some of us kinda think cancer, father dying getting divorced we kinda have a soft spot for whereas one of the smartest and best and most hard working players ever we don't see a valid excuse
carmineabbatiello
Well-known member
Hollywood and Legend obviously > Norm and Cfc. I have no idea what went on behind the scenes but laziness seems like a very subjective and difficult to measure criteria. Even if the good 2 spent everyday at the racetrack and the bad 2 spent all day digging ditches, the good 2 were superior and deserve praise for it while the bad 2 deserve to get dumped on. Results are all that matter. And since one was Chris Mullin, that deserves a whole other level of praise.
And Mullin’s situation with his brother‘s illness and subsequent death, his families unhappiness after moving from California to New York and returning to California don’t count. Like I said, empathy for Lavin, vilification for Mullin. One set of life’s challenges can’t count while another one does, in my mind, it doesn’t work that way.
I personally know of two times Lavin blew off scheduled workouts for HS players in NJ HIS administrators set up to go to social events in NY, calling them off at the latest possible moment. I went after Lavin big time on this board during the end of his tenure here because he was as phony as the proverbial three dollar bill. As phony as his mentor, John Wooden.
Taking a paycheck and not doing the work is stealing, and I paint both of them with that brush. If you can’t do the job, for whatever reason, leave.
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Compare Shamorie's third year stats to Champs who everyone loves. Ponds also made the NCAA that last year. They aren't lackluster. I agree he doesn't get his due.
Shamorie Ponds College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com
Shamorie Ponds - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more
www.sports-reference.com
Julian Champagnie College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com
Julian Champagnie - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more
www.sports-reference.com
I have no beef with Ponds, he was a terrific player for the Johnnie's, as was Champagnie. My reply has nothing to do with them but rather the use of stats only to judge players. A prime example for me is AJ Storr who I was not a big fan of as a player, because I felt he did little on the court if he wasn’t shooting. My initial opinion of Dingle is much the same although he certainly appears to be trying to expand his influence on a game in other ways; that is a very tough thing to do after years of playing one way, and I admire him greatly for that. No sulking, no chemistry upsetting, just, ok, I will TRY.Compare Shamorie's third year stats to Champs who everyone loves. Ponds also made the NCAA that last year. They aren't lackluster. I agree he doesn't get his due.
Shamorie Ponds College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com
Shamorie Ponds - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much moreJulian Champagnie College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com
Julian Champagnie - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more
But I digress and now will enter into an area of hypocrisy, the use of stats. I have not seen Storr play for Wisconsin but it would APPEAR from his stats that he plays that same score or nothing game and that may very well be EXACTLY what Wisconsin needs from him, he might have found the perfect fit and great for him. I know he is a quality person and I will always root for those guys. But, IF true, emphasis on IF, his game IMO would not have fit into Pitino’s system, he would have had to change and expand.
I work with $ numbers all the time managing my business and I insist they be used for analysis, to ask the right questions and to make course corrections or apply lessons learned to other projects, etc. if required, Not as a static end all and be all unto themselves. I have had project teams who lost money but did a terrific job holding that number as low as possible because of things beyond their control and conversely, teams that turned a profit that could have been higher if they didn’t sit back basking in their “success”.
I feel the same way about using stats to judge players. It is interesting bar talk and all, for sure, but the only real way to judge a player is the eye test. Alleyne is a perfect example of that, so is Taylor.
That's fair but what was your eye test of Ponds?
I agree. When I saw those comments I thought I missed something the other night.
I thought Ponds was a terrific offensive player, good on defense, certainly far from afraid of the moment. I thought he could have been in better shape but could have been wrong, that is mostly based on things I heard from people I respect but I don’t know if it was true.
My only knock on him is that I thought he tried to change his on court persona to become more of a pure point guard his senior year, I imagine looking toward the NBA. Not unusual at all for players to do that after getting feedback after their junior year.
But all in all a terrific college player, borderline AA, a little too small without world class quickness for the NBA though.
My only knock on him is that I thought he tried to change his on court persona to become more of a pure point guard his senior year, I imagine looking toward the NBA. Not unusual at all for players to do that after getting feedback after their junior year.
But all in all a terrific college player, borderline AA, a little too small without world class quickness for the NBA though.
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Your point 2 is honest. « whatever the frick happened between Matt and Slice. « You acknowledge that you don’t know. For the 1000 th time nothing happened between Matt and Slice and for people to keep bringing up Matts name in connection with Slices departure is just unfair to Matt and tarnishes his good name.
Slice left because of a disagreement between himself and Mullin, no more no less, which had zero to do with Matt.
It is more than time for posters to accept that.
Matt has worked ever since the incident and was brought back to his Alma mater, Slice to my knowledge has not.
Who cares? A coach should be judged by the results on the court. Neither got it done but Lavin was much more successful here and we obviously would’ve been better off keeping him at the time (which isn’t just hindsight, many were against that decision).
I really don’t know how anyone can argue that 2 tourney appearances in 5 years (and another 2 NITs) at St. John’s didn’t deserve a paycheck. Look at the recent history of this program.
Appreciate your response. I don't verify every rumor especially sensitive ones. Matt is a good guy and very hard worker. He even came to Novitas and explained NIL to the guys.
Mike to be fair they both suffered tragedies while coaching at SJU. Lavin’s dad died at 83 after living what seemed to be a very nice life. Mullins brother got sick in his 50s and passed away. Not comparing, as a loss of a family member is a loss, but it seems both suffered great tragedies while coaching at SJU.
Bottom line is many like myself believed the BS as we knew Mullin the player, having watched him play for 4 years, having watched him work out morning day and night 365 days a year, believed he had the keys to every gym in the city and would put the same effort into coaching as he did in playing. Fact is, and for whatever reason, he didn’t come close to putting in the effort required to succeed at SJU.
Lavin had zero ties to SJU, Chris had the greatest of ties, we believed he came home to make us great and not just to collect a large pay cheque. Chris’s lack of effort hurts much more than that of Lavin.
Sorry Carmine but that’s the way I see it.
Rick after tomorrow night's W
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This mess all started with Louie selfishly retiring. If he was still coaching we could have avoided the last 20+ years of misery.
Alleyene earning a start tonight.
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hard to believe it’s 30 yrs since coach retired. Thought he’d stay for his 25th yr He was still young
There is a great interview with Coach K on Max with Chris Wallace. He said he loved coaching and the games were no problem, but he started to dread all the prep work before games, watching tape, learning what other teams do and preparing to stop them, identifying weaknesses, etc. That's the reason he knew it was time to go.
It appears CRP still has that drive and work ethic. He's in great health and works out. He loves it all (coaching), says it's the only thing he really loves to do, but also knows he may not feel that way forever.
I would guess that Looie at 67, knew it was time. He could have been nudged, but likely not.
Below is a link to a scouting report for this evenings game that appears on UConn’s fan website. Note the classy thing the author wrote about Brady Dunlap.
the-boneyard.com
St. John's Scouting Report
Flying early tomorrow morning, so onto the next one... St. John’s (8-3) #61 in KenPom 48th in Offensive efficiency 2nd in offensive rebounding 58th in offensive tempo 60th in A/FGM (57.2%) 89th w/ a 35.5 3P%, but just 33.9% of FGAs are from three (269th) 203rd w/ a 49.3 2P% 198th in turnover...
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