@Connecticut, Sat., Dec. 23, 8p, FOX
- Thread starter Knight
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That goes for Jenkins as well.
His shortcomings are not going to change. He plays a lot so I'm sure he'll have his moments, but that doesn't mean that the criticisms of his game are wrong.
Shows you the average age of us here
I can still outwork the "participation trophy" young bucks!Shows you the average age of us here
You can outwork them while learning a foreign language at the same time.I can still outwork the "participation trophy" young bucks!
I already taught myself French! How did you know?You can outwork them while learning a foreign language at the same time.
I remember you writing it. I find languages and people that can learn them beyond impressive. Next time you come up to a game I’ll bring Nathalie. She aside from English and natural Spanish abd decent Italian she speaks French so fluently and with proper accent when we were in France every single French person we met thought she was FrenchI already taught myself French! How did you know?
I'm barely literate in English
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SJUWillRockNYC
Well-known member
| 2023-24 |
|
| Career |
| FG | FG% | 3PT | 3P% | FT | FT% | OR | DR | REB | AST | BLK | STL | PF | TO | PTS |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 199-476 | 41.8 | 56-155 | 36.1 | 92-117 | 78.6 | 40 | 113 | 153 | 173 | 20 | 48 | 74 | 78 | 546 |
| 55-142 | 38.7 | 14-53 | 26.4 | 12-14 | 85.7 | 15 | 30 | 45 | 69 | 5 | 22 | 33 | 32 | 136 |
I just wish he'd shoot less and pass more.
Dingle leads the team in 3-pnt shots by 1, who is 2nd? You guessed it.
Why take so many shots when you're not a good shooter? Try to be more of a PG.
Unfortunately, I live in Florida. I wish I could attend games. Maybe I'll have to make a road trip!I remember you writing it. I find languages and people that can learn them beyond impressive. Next time you come up to a game I’ll bring Nathalie. She aside from English and natural Spanish abd decent Italian she speaks French so fluently and with proper accent when we were in France every single French person we met thought she was French
I'm barely literate in English
SJUDave
Well-known member
St. John's had a chance to steal one on the road in Hartford against the #5 Huskies. They were up six at half but let the opportunity slip by. We break down the loss; from Joel Soriano's usage to the surprise player that probably should taking those late game 3's, how good the matchup zone looks even though it's only been deployed for two games, Jenkins shooting woes and the silver linings that came from a tough road test
SJUDave
Well-known member
1. Glenn Taylor Jr. is shooting 45% from 3. He needs to be shooting more in general.
2. Jordan Dingle has to be looking for his shot more.
3. Luis should be closer to 100% for Hofstra, when he actually gets to that point and lets loose - he's going to flip this roster on it's head
4. That match up zone defense is going to give coaches in the Big East fits the rest of the season getting ready for it. Both Sean Miller and Dan Hurley weren't ready for it. Good luck to the rest of the bunch.
5. Missed opportunity no doubt, but this is about as good as you can feel on the outlook of the team after a loss as I can remember. Truly.
2. Jordan Dingle has to be looking for his shot more.
3. Luis should be closer to 100% for Hofstra, when he actually gets to that point and lets loose - he's going to flip this roster on it's head
4. That match up zone defense is going to give coaches in the Big East fits the rest of the season getting ready for it. Both Sean Miller and Dan Hurley weren't ready for it. Good luck to the rest of the bunch.
5. Missed opportunity no doubt, but this is about as good as you can feel on the outlook of the team after a loss as I can remember. Truly.
Not to knock your assessment based on stats but..
1. Glen Taylor's shooting % is a function of his shot selection where he is nailingbwide open 3's at a great clip. Unless ball movement radically creates more wide open shots for him, simply more shots will mean more contested shots and lower shooting %.
2. Astute uconn fans think they dodged a bullet by sju not spreading the floorvand gave Soriano go right at Johnson. Soriano took just 5 shots. Uconn fans say Sorianonwould have either scored at will on Johnson or fouled him out. Soriano's own foul trouble could have been a factor in taking him out of game.
3. UCONN fans think their guys shot uncharacteristically poor from 3 and that had nothing to do with our zone. Our zone made Johnson look formidable and wide open down low as every time Soriano helped out high johnson seemed to score an easy deuce down low.
4. You say Jenkins should less and Dingle more. 1-5 from three for Dingle not awe inspiring. Rick said it best during timeout. Don't take the first look you get. Work for good looks.
4. Luis looks like a player but didn't exactly tear it up in 18 mins. Still agree he can be a strong weapon
5. Typical fan knee jerk to Allleyne. Crowned him essential after Xavier. Downgraded him to no more than useful sub after uconn. Reality as it ususlly is, somewhere in middle.
Despite a poorly played game almost stole one in ct. Without Clingan teams appear pretty equal. We will see.
SJUDave
Well-known member
1. Regarding Glenn hitting open 3's....then run plays and get him more open 3's duh?? He's clearly showing he's proficient enough to hit them, and he's hitting them in big spots...get him the damn ball and let it fly
2. Joel Soriano getting 5 shots is criminal. IDC that he got to the line a few times, Joel Soriano SHOULD NEVER AGAIN this season be under 10 shots a game
3. UConn fans thinking them not playing well or scoring well or shooting well is because they were just off and it wasn't our defense are being homers. That Zone has done that twice in back to back games, it wasn't an accident. A team that averaged over 82 ppg I believe was held to 69.
4. It's not about DIngle having much better numbers, he's a proficient offensive player, and there's not many other options right now since this board and a lot of fans don't want Jenkins to be taking it. So who should it be? It's not gonna be Soriano or Drissa. It's not Ledlum. You eliminate Jenkins that leaves Taylor, Dingle, Alleyne, Luis when healthy and out there.
5. Alleyne had an off night, was clearly pressing and wanted to have a big night in that moment like anyone would. Unfortunate but I love his game and what he brings to this team, he will be fine and bounce back I have no doubt.
Agree with your points.
Glenn Taylor is shooting 45% from three because he only takes good shots. Heck, Justin Simon shot 42% from three in 2017-18 ONLY because he was very judicious in what shots he took. Taylor's shot is a billion times better than Simon's.
I'm not an expert, but to me Luis passes the eye test. Rare combination of silky smooth and aggression. If he can stay healthy, then he is the second best player on the team.
Dingle has to be aggressive hunting shots. If he is not putting the ball in the basket then there is no other reason for him to be on the court.
I'm optimistic after last Saturday, but UConn is still trying to find its way after losing Clingan. They did not play well. Its not like we took them to the wire while taking their best punch.
Finally, I would to see if someone can find this split, but our shooting percentage on three point shots off the dribble has to be in the teens. (step back shots, pull up shots and on ball screen shots). we are very good with catch and shoot, but take way too many of the other kind. This is a settle. Cut this type of shot in half and I believe our offensive efficiencies would improve by at least 5 points per 100 possessions. This likely equates to 3 1/2 to 4 points per game.
SJUDave
Well-known member
With what you said about Dingle hunting his shots, I think it's also hunting the rim, I want him using his frame and muscle to get to the basket and picking up fouls and going to the line. He's not going to be easy to stop when he goes down hill. So let him pick up some steam and go to the basket. He's not shooting great at the line this year 61% but last two years he's over 80%. He's a weapon who has had to find his footing in multiple adjusted roles since coming to SJU. From injuries early on to starting to bench role, it's a lot but he is very skilled and he just needs to put his foot on the gas pedal
Jenkins is a career 36% three pt shooter. He has been off so far this year. I am sure Pitino is telling him to keep shooting.
Had a chance to win a road game in the Big East, which is a hard thing to do generally, against a wounded UConn team. No moral victories, but somewhat encouraging in terms of being able to (potentially) meet reasonable expectations and be a bubble team.
General thoughts:
1. We have a Jenkins problem, but it isn't a solvable problem this season because there isn't a viable alternative, or at least not one that Pitino is willing to go with (though who knows - he did eventually give in and adjust his defense, but I don't think he will go away from Jenkins short of an injury). He's a useful player who is far too ball dominant - it's like watching Carmelo Anthony at point guard. He holds the ball too long and does not shoot well enough against high-major competition. Both the ball-dominance and the shooting come at the expense of players who should be getting more touches and shots, but don't. Against UConn he took 13 shots. Soriano and Taylor COMBINED had 11, 5 for Soriano and 6 for Taylor. That just can't happen - but sadly it isn't an aberration.
2. The backcourt is a challenge, but Luis returning may help some. I think that Pitino has correctly assessed that it's hard to play Dingle and Jenkins together. They are both players who want/need the ball in their hands, so pairing Taylor with Jenkins and Alleyne with Dingle works better because Alleyne and Taylor are both willing to share the ball (and also defend, which Dingle is ... not good at). Luis on the floor with either of those units provides another offensive option that should - hopefully - encourage more ball distribution. I am completely convinced that Taylor has the abilility to play that role (along with being an excellent defender and good rebounder) but for whatever (regrettable) reason he does not assert himself enough. Don't know if it's Pitino reining him in, Jenkins not getting him the ball where he can do something with it, or just a Sir Dom like personality.
3. With regard to Luis, some of us did see him play at U Mass and there is a reason he's on the NBA scout radar. But he has to get/stay healthy and produce - which I think will follow his health. He clearly has the ability to be a difference-maker on both ends of the floor and if he is a consistent rotation presence then that will scramble things a bit in a good way. The question is whether Luis' minutes come at the expense of Taylor or Ledlum (or how much comes out of each).
Bottom line is that this team isn't a coherent product. There's no point guard because the starting point guard is only playing that position by default. The 2 guard doesn't assert himself on offense, which exacerbates the point guard's existing approach. The coach doesn't trust the backup point guard enough to give him even 3 minutes in a league game, let alone give him the job. The backup 2 guard has been inconsistent on offense and can't play defense at all. Alleyne is Alleyne - good defender, willing passer, makes good decisions, has never been consistent on offense anywhere (really I'd try him as the starting PG and move Jenkins off the ball, but Pitino isn't gonna do that).
Up front there's Soriano and then there's an undersized PF who plays his heart out and is productive but is still an undersized PF. Then there's The Brute Squad behind them - useful in limited minutes.
Can Luis make this all fit together? That's a lot to ask, but I guess we will see.
General thoughts:
1. We have a Jenkins problem, but it isn't a solvable problem this season because there isn't a viable alternative, or at least not one that Pitino is willing to go with (though who knows - he did eventually give in and adjust his defense, but I don't think he will go away from Jenkins short of an injury). He's a useful player who is far too ball dominant - it's like watching Carmelo Anthony at point guard. He holds the ball too long and does not shoot well enough against high-major competition. Both the ball-dominance and the shooting come at the expense of players who should be getting more touches and shots, but don't. Against UConn he took 13 shots. Soriano and Taylor COMBINED had 11, 5 for Soriano and 6 for Taylor. That just can't happen - but sadly it isn't an aberration.
2. The backcourt is a challenge, but Luis returning may help some. I think that Pitino has correctly assessed that it's hard to play Dingle and Jenkins together. They are both players who want/need the ball in their hands, so pairing Taylor with Jenkins and Alleyne with Dingle works better because Alleyne and Taylor are both willing to share the ball (and also defend, which Dingle is ... not good at). Luis on the floor with either of those units provides another offensive option that should - hopefully - encourage more ball distribution. I am completely convinced that Taylor has the abilility to play that role (along with being an excellent defender and good rebounder) but for whatever (regrettable) reason he does not assert himself enough. Don't know if it's Pitino reining him in, Jenkins not getting him the ball where he can do something with it, or just a Sir Dom like personality.
3. With regard to Luis, some of us did see him play at U Mass and there is a reason he's on the NBA scout radar. But he has to get/stay healthy and produce - which I think will follow his health. He clearly has the ability to be a difference-maker on both ends of the floor and if he is a consistent rotation presence then that will scramble things a bit in a good way. The question is whether Luis' minutes come at the expense of Taylor or Ledlum (or how much comes out of each).
Bottom line is that this team isn't a coherent product. There's no point guard because the starting point guard is only playing that position by default. The 2 guard doesn't assert himself on offense, which exacerbates the point guard's existing approach. The coach doesn't trust the backup point guard enough to give him even 3 minutes in a league game, let alone give him the job. The backup 2 guard has been inconsistent on offense and can't play defense at all. Alleyne is Alleyne - good defender, willing passer, makes good decisions, has never been consistent on offense anywhere (really I'd try him as the starting PG and move Jenkins off the ball, but Pitino isn't gonna do that).
Up front there's Soriano and then there's an undersized PF who plays his heart out and is productive but is still an undersized PF. Then there's The Brute Squad behind them - useful in limited minutes.
Can Luis make this all fit together? That's a lot to ask, but I guess we will see.
I agree that Taylor's shooting percentage from three is directly related to the kind of threes he takes - wide open catch and shoots. What I would like to see more of from Glenn is taking the ball to the basket and drawing fouls something he proved to be very adept at last year at the high major level. He took 156 free throws (almost as many as Joel took for us), roughly 5 per game and made 80% of them. He is only averaging about 1.5 attempts so far this season and needs to be a little more aggressive doing what he does best on offense imho. Of course this becomes harder to do when he rarely sees the ball. I think he, Luis & Dingle can play well together.
Excellent post LMF
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