Coaching Decision Poll

[Class of 72]

Here's my take. I've been overly optimistic, but I voted no. A few points:

-Tired of hearing this back to back 20 win seasons accolade. Teams are playing more games than ever

-Lavin doesn't appear to be hungry. Too many lapses on the recruiting trail. Throw in the fact he hasn't evened out the classes after 5 years

-He'd probably make a great guidance counselor, but he's not a good game coach and we're such an ugly team to watch.

-His postseason record is unacceptable.

-All that being said, I think we need a change from the top down. Enough of this mom and pop mentality. I'm not sure we'd even hire an upgrade

Your last line confounds me!
Mom and Pop basketball operations do not have multimillion $ budgets. If you are not sure we would even hire an upgrade (like Baldi's coach of the year Masiello), what you are suggesting is change for change sake. That is the classic case of setting oneself up for instability.

 

[austour]

SJU also needs to give Lavin the tools that he needs and spend more money on upgrading the facilities, which I hear is also a problem.

I don'tbuy tha the facilities are a problem. Taffner is relatively new and was a big upgrade over what we had before. CA is a dump but we are not gonna build a 10,000 seat arena on campus. We play a majority of our games at the Garden. It was just totally renovated and is a great place for a basketball game. Better dorms for athletes (like UK)?

Actually, the building of dorms hurt our local recruiting
Years ago, local kids were eager to come to SJU to pocket the cost of living stipend
Dorms have been great for out of town recruits, not so much for NYC area kids
As for Taffner, my friend saw it for the first time this year and thought it was a dump

It is my understanding that because there are limited number of dorms STJ could still offer the stipend but ever since Pittsburgh the school has insisted that freshman players at least live on campus not sure if they let upper classmen live off campus. I recall a poster saying that some player(s) were collecting a stipend this year.

 

[room112]

SJU also needs to give Lavin the tools that he needs and spend more money on upgrading the facilities, which I hear is also a problem.

I don'tbuy tha the facilities are a problem. Taffner is relatively new and was a big upgrade over what we had before. CA is a dump but we are not gonna build a 10,000 seat arena on campus. We play a majority of our games at the Garden. It was just totally renovated and is a great place for a basketball game. Better dorms for athletes (like UK)?

Actually, the building of dorms hurt our local recruiting
Years ago, local kids were eager to come to SJU to pocket the cost of living stipend
Dorms have been great for out of town recruits, not so much for NYC area kids
As for Taffner, my friend saw it for the first time this year and thought it was a dump

Unfortunately Taffner is no comparison to the world class facilities being built or already built at the major schools

 

[mjmaherjr]

It would be ironic after all this back & forth if Lavin opts to walk.

Yep. And I could see how any coach would do that if he didn't have a ton of recruits on the horizon and didn't want next years potential poor team to affect his long term prospects since walking into final year of contract.

Exactly Mike. He also may not agree with all the terms. Just thinking out loud. Hopefully that does not make me a "hater" or "disciple".

No one can do that. They have to refer to you as the redmen.com poster bracket champion

Mike, you will be champ in the morning after title is vacated. Two of those seven footers Lawman noted on my team, took SATs after two years at Rise Academy.

I'm not so sure my players past their drug test.

We could have the first title game with no winner

 

[Section3]

SJU also needs to give Lavin the tools that he needs and spend more money on upgrading the facilities, which I hear is also a problem.

I don'tbuy tha the facilities are a problem. Taffner is relatively new and was a big upgrade over what we had before. CA is a dump but we are not gonna build a 10,000 seat arena on campus. We play a majority of our games at the Garden. It was just totally renovated and is a great place for a basketball game. Better dorms for athletes (like UK)?

Actually, the building of dorms hurt our local recruiting
Years ago, local kids were eager to come to SJU to pocket the cost of living stipend
Dorms have been great for out of town recruits, not so much for NYC area kids
As for Taffner, my friend saw it for the first time this year and thought it was a dump

It is my understanding that because there are limited number of dorms STJ could still offer the stipend but ever since Pittsburgh the school has insisted that freshman players at least live on campus not sure if they let upper classmen live off campus. I recall a poster saying that some player(s) were collecting a stipend this year.

Lavin stated at the preseason MSG open practice that most players, except freshmen, live off campus so that they could collect stipend

 

[Ricky Smith]

"Nobody expected Harless and Sampson to leave early, no one expected Amir to leave for baseball"

Why did he bring this up?

He was asked why he thinks his postseason record is so bad during his tenure here. I believe our buddy Zach asked him.

Lavin also suggested they sit down over coffee and discuss it further in depth.

This was a tweet

Steve Lavin is kiiiiiinda throwing his players under the bus right now, it sounds like.

 

[Class of 72]

SJU also needs to give Lavin the tools that he needs and spend more money on upgrading the facilities, which I hear is also a problem.

I don'tbuy tha the facilities are a problem. Taffner is relatively new and was a big upgrade over what we had before. CA is a dump but we are not gonna build a 10,000 seat arena on campus. We play a majority of our games at the Garden. It was just totally renovated and is a great place for a basketball game. Better dorms for athletes (like UK)?

Actually, the building of dorms hurt our local recruiting
Years ago, local kids were eager to come to SJU to pocket the cost of living stipend
Dorms have been great for out of town recruits, not so much for NYC area kids
As for Taffner, my friend saw it for the first time this year and thought it was a dump

Unfortunately Taffner is no comparison to the world class facilities being built or already built at the major schools

How many have you visited?
A weight room is a weight room. You lift them up, you put them down. Having 60" televisions lIke a sports bar has yet to be proven to get players in better shape. It's the people in those facilities that make them great.

 

[room112]

i took Lavin at his word and believed him that this Program would be resurrected and become a contender again in the BE Conference and nationally. He did not meet those goals as a Coach. He has had adequate time to build a Program and, hasn't.

Are you really that delusional? So him having us nationally ranked in 2 of 4 years on the bench and making the tourney in 2 of 4 years doesn't constitute being resurrected from the pit of dispare the program had been in for a decade? Maybe YOU and the others you mention should be realists in your expectations for St Johns University... Have you built a program from scratch in a major conference? Just curious how long it takes and what it should look like after 5 years... 3 20 win seasons seems like a damn good foundation to build off of.

Being nationally ranked in December in the grand scheme isn't that great. Seton hall was nationally ranked and I don't see their fan base endorsing Willard. It's all about March, and Lavin is 7-18 overall and 2-9 in tournaments at SJU.

Look at any successful head coach that has taken over a dead program in a major conference. Show me one coach who had to create a program from absolute scratch in a major conference that has a .600 plus winning percentage within the first 5 years of rebuild. If you can't see what he has been able to accomplish than there is no need to debate this. Improvement every year. Would i like to see a better winning percentage in March, of course. However it's nice actually playing in mid March once again. I just don't think you and the others look at things realistically. Look at Coach Ks first 5 years at Duke, Wright at Nova etc etc... Mind you none of these guys took over a program that had to have a complete foundation built like Lavin had to. Anyway we'll see how the chips fall over the next couple weeks.

My main issue with the constant improvement is, what about next year? He certainly has NOT set up this program for stabilized success. Unless everything breaks right this off season, we could have many ugly years ahead. We should not be doing a full rebuild at this point in his tenure

When did you finally wake up and smell the toast?

LoL man I've never really been a Lavin supporter, I've just remained more optimistic than most and try to be realistic. Now that things have played out following our departure from the tournament I'm glad to give my opinion

 

[room112]

Here's my take. I've been overly optimistic, but I voted no. A few points:

-Tired of hearing this back to back 20 win seasons accolade. Teams are playing more games than ever

-Lavin doesn't appear to be hungry. Too many lapses on the recruiting trail. Throw in the fact he hasn't evened out the classes after 5 years

-He'd probably make a great guidance counselor, but he's not a good game coach and we're such an ugly team to watch.

-His postseason record is unacceptable.

-All that being said, I think we need a change from the top down. Enough of this mom and pop mentality. I'm not sure we'd even hire an upgrade

Your last line confounds me!
Mom and Pop basketball operations do not have multimillion $ budgets. If you are not sure we would even hire an upgrade (like Baldi's coach of the year Masiello), what you are suggesting is change for change sake. That is the classic case of setting oneself up for instability.

I think you're confused by my comments. Just because we pay 2 mil for a coach doesn't mean we're not mom and pop. Everything the program does, from the marketing, to the treatment of season ticket holders, so the way concessions are done in Carnessecca, to the way their is no gear available in stores, and that's just the tip of the iceberg

 

[ZanMan]

"Nobody expected Harless and Sampson to leave early, no one expected Amir to leave for baseball"

Why did he bring this up?

He was asked why he thinks his postseason record is so bad during his tenure here. I believe our buddy Zach asked him.

Lavin also suggested they sit down over coffee and discuss it further in depth.

This was a tweet

Steve Lavin is kiiiiiinda throwing his players under the bus right now, it sounds like.

What are you talking about? How is he throwing his players under the bus? The list of players leaving was brought up when asked why he thinks his teams have done poorly in the postseason.

When was that a tweet from Lavin?

 

[gman]

SJU also needs to give Lavin the tools that he needs and spend more money on upgrading the facilities, which I hear is also a problem.

I don'tbuy tha the facilities are a problem. Taffner is relatively new and was a big upgrade over what we had before. CA is a dump but we are not gonna build a 10,000 seat arena on campus. We play a majority of our games at the Garden. It was just totally renovated and is a great place for a basketball game. Better dorms for athletes (like UK)?

Actually, the building of dorms hurt our local recruiting
Years ago, local kids were eager to come to SJU to pocket the cost of living stipend
Dorms have been great for out of town recruits, not so much for NYC area kids
As for Taffner, my friend saw it for the first time this year and thought it was a dump

Unfortunately Taffner is no comparison to the world class facilities being built or already built at the major schools

How many have you visited?
A weight room is a weight room. You lift them up, you put them down. Having 60" televisions lIke a sports bar has yet to be proven to get players in better shape. It's the people in those facilities that make them great.

I haven't seen Taffner, but there are some sick facilities around the country. Even the new one at Cornell is awesome.

 

[Ricky Smith]

"Nobody expected Harless and Sampson to leave early, no one expected Amir to leave for baseball"

Why did he bring this up?

He was asked why he thinks his postseason record is so bad during his tenure here. I believe our buddy Zach asked him.

Lavin also suggested they sit down over coffee and discuss it further in depth.

This was a tweet

Steve Lavin is kiiiiiinda throwing his players under the bus right now, it sounds like.

What are you talking about? How is he throwing his players under the bus? The list of players leaving was brought up when asked why he thinks his teams have done poorly in the postseason.

When was that a tweet from Lavin?

Not a Lavin tweet.

 

[Avon Barksdale]

Wichita state up qo on Kansas w 645 to go.

Give Marshall whatever he wants and let him be the coach. That's going from a 74 pinto to a brand new Ferrari.

 

[ZanMan]

Taffner is far from being a dump. Maybe it isn't what some other school's have, but there is no way it is a roadblock for recruits.

 

[Ricky Smith]

Wichita state up qo on Kansas w 645 to go.

Give Marshall whatever he wants and let him be the coach. That's going from a 74 pinto to a brand new Ferrari.

This is why majors don't want to play local mids

 

[Avon Barksdale]

Wichita state up qo on Kansas w 645 to go.

Give Marshall whatever he wants and let him be the coach. That's going from a 74 pinto to a brand new Ferrari.

This is why majors don't want to play local mids

Oh my goodness gracious it's the TROLL!

Did you also post this on the jungle, Mr Troll?

 

[Ricky Smith]

Wichita state up qo on Kansas w 645 to go.

Give Marshall whatever he wants and let him be the coach. That's going from a 74 pinto to a brand new Ferrari.

This is why majors don't want to play local mids

Oh my goodness gracious it's the TROLL!

Did you also post this on the jungle, Mr Troll?

Not yet. I come here for my fans. Especially class of 72

 

[weathermannyc]

Wichita state up qo on Kansas w 645 to go.

Give Marshall whatever he wants and let him be the coach. That's going from a 74 pinto to a brand new Ferrari.

It would be a pleasure to watch a Marshall coached team in red.

 

[westchesterjoe]

First of all, this poll means nothing in the grand scheme of things and has no effect on what will happen. I know this is a blow to all, yesers and noers alike... I think back to all those posters here, who actually blame other fans for the performance of these players and this Coach...Pray for them..
Then there are those who are posting today, if Lavin comes back and Jordan comes back and sadly, those misinformed who are actually lobbying for Obepka to return next year.. Desco should disqualify all those who remotely expressed any interest in this player returning as UNFIT TO REGISTER A VOTE.

2 days ago, CO was being portrayed as the culprit of all time. Now, the lunatic fringe is actually touting that as being a viable part of our team next year? GOD needs to talk to these unfortunates.

And, for those who have forgotten.. Lavin achieved his 5 season record with the 3rd ranked recruits he enrolled. The guys had some talent, albeit some overrated but, still in his best year Lavin finished 5th in the league

UCLA fans, for those not aware, warned us that Lavin had taken Final 4 talent to the SWEET 16 A BIT OF A UNDERACHIEVEMENT.

And, who can forget Baron Davis's quote on his teams finish, "Yeah we could have done better, if we actually had a Coach!" BARON'S WORDS NOT MINE.

And, so it goes on..

Many here, in just 2 days have completely forgotten the fact , that Steve Lavin is not a good Coach of the game of BASKETBALL. .. he hasn't put a team together that has any understanding of the game because, he doesn't either. DLO, POINTER, GREENE, JORDAN all deserved more from their Coach on the BB court. He failed them in that regard.

Helter skelter might have worked if he had the talent of GOLDEN state Warriors but, even then, it is suspect.

Even, if LAVIN brings in best talent in the BE conference, he won't know what to do with it, except the same old, elementary pick and roll.. Our results will never reach any sort of Championship Play under his guidance...

And, a last word for those who are using the Roberts years as a standard to evaluate the Program under Lavin, DON'T. That is not the passing grade standard!


BTW, for those watching at home, Kansas getting blown out by Wichita State.. Norm and Chuckie Martin, clearly in TV VIEW during the time ours, etc.

 

[austour]

Wichita state up qo on Kansas w 645 to go.

Give Marshall whatever he wants and let him be the coach. That's going from a 74 pinto to a brand new Ferrari.

Marshall has made it clear he would only leave Wichita State for a very high major job per articles on the subject. STJ does not qualify . He already makes 1.75 mill per as well.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/99081/what-would-it-take-gregg-marshall