Coaching Decision Poll

[lawmanfan]

Both polls have value. Mine was in no way intended to diminish or distract from this one.

I thought it was interesting that so many of the posters who commented (and there are clearly many who voted but didn't comment) made it clear that their vote was a "yes if", as in "if we can't do better" or "if there's a low buyout," etc.

Since this poll was Lavin vs the unknown, I thought it would be interesting to see the results of Lavin vs a known. There were limited options, so I picked Lavin plus a couple of the better known names.

The result is interesting. It seems to show that while about 60% of the responders prefer Lavin to the unknown (and clearly many are bearing in mind that it is SJU who would be picking the unknown), about 60% of the responders prefer another (specific and potentially available) coach to Lavin.

Those who disagree with the results of one poll or the other shouldn't criticize the polls or read into the motivation of posting them. The numbers are what they are. I think each gives you some insight into how the sentiments of our fan base fall out.

 

[paultzman]

Both polls have value. Mine was in no way intended to diminish or distract from this one.

I thought it was interesting that so many of the posters who commented (and there are clearly many who voted but didn't comment) made it clear that their vote was a "yes if", as in "if we can't do better" or "if there's a low buyout," etc.

Since this poll was Lavin vs the unknown, I thought it would be interesting to see the results of Lavin vs a known. There were limited options, so I picked Lavin plus a couple of the better known names.

The result is interesting. It seems to show that while about 60% of the responders prefer Lavin to the unknown (and clearly many are bearing in mind that it is SJU who would be picking the unknown), about 60% of the responders prefer another (specific) and potentially available) coach to Lavin.

Those who disagree with the results of one poll or the other shouldn't criticize the polls or read into them. The numbers are what they are. I think each gives you some insight into how the sentiments of our fan base fall out.

Nicely done.

 

[stjohnschris]

I have been a fan since the early 1980's. I have read just about every post on this board since the very beginning, but I have only posted once or twice ever. I couldn't even figure out how to post without hitting reply. LOL. I wanted to note my background, because I suspect that the votes are coming from many like me who don't post regularly. (ie the vote total is the genuine view of the board and not just a product of yes people being better at creating alternative login accounts. LOL)

I voted yes and here is why. The last 5 years have been a very bumpy road. I have been disappointed by the constant drama. However, when you are not already at the top, I think it hard to be as selective in avoiding players with baggage (see SHU for example). It would help to get us over the hump, if Lavin was also an outstanding game coach, but he is not. As with many fans, I have not been that happy with our style of play. However, there are a lot of very successful coaches (several still in the current sweet 16) who more or less play the same style as us. As much as I don't like our style some times, I am not convinced that our style of play is really holding us back. it should be noted that Lavin also clearly has some coaching strengths. Particularly, he seems to be a very good player manager. How in the world he gets the kids not to quit when we have some bad losses is beyond me, and how he completely changed DLO's attitude is impressive. The bottom line is, if Lavin can recruit at the level he has generally achieved at both UCLA and here, I think we will be in the tournament pretty consistently.

The main question for the immediate future then is why Lavin hasn't reloaded us with talent, particularly last years class. The thing I keep coming back to is how Lavin answered a question from a reporter about our lack of recent recruiting. I believe it was during a post game interview during our bad streak, but I am not sure. Lavin's response was basically, he acknowledged that we have had some major problems overall, but insisted that recruiting is not one of them. He said that we are in the best position recruiting-wise that we have been in since he got here. Now I know Lavin's tendency to exaggerate, but the way he kind of laughed when answering the question gave me the distinct impression that this is not BS. So, I will wait and see.

My guess is that if they extend him, this years and next years recruiting class will turn out better then some expect. If so, 2 years from now I imagine that we will be back to the talent level we had last year and this year. If we have that kind of talent consistently, we will generally be in the tournament and hopefully sometimes make a deeper run. I would be happy with that. If the recruiting does not go well, I hope that the extension has a lower buyout. But based on Lavin's comment, and his large body of work recruiting wise, I believe that we generally have a better chance at quickly getting back to that talent level by keeping him, rather than going in a new direction.

That is why I voted yes.

This is a very reasonable post. Thanks for joining the conversation.

For me the things you identify are precisely the reason why Lavin is the wrong man for the job (turmoil, poor game coach). To some extent your reason for keeping him is based more on a projection of what you think he will do on the recruiting front going forward. I don't share your confidence in that, and even if I did I think his lack of coaching ability will consistently result in the team underperforming any talent he recruits.

I also disagree that you can find a team in the Sweet 16 that is remotely as poorly coached or that plays our "style" (which is really the lack of any organized offense).

And if two years from now we are back to our talent level then that will mean 3 NCAA appearances every 8 years (with blowout exits in the first round) is the standard for success, which is not my standard.

I guess the question is whether the glass is half empty or half full. I respect your opinion that the glass is half full, but also respectfully disagree.

I too appreciated the post from Johnnies not lately, had a nice calming vibe to it. But for me, It's not the recruiting, or the ineligibles, or the reefer madness... it's his ability to coach, beginning and end of story. Our talent needed a solid coach, not a cheerleader, or a mentor or an expert at press conferences. It's unfair to ask our assistant coaches to make up for the deficiencies that our head coach has, and there are several threads in the past that give a lot of credit to early success of the Lavin era to Mike Dunlap (sorry to drag that dead horse topic out). There's also a big difference in our fan base between the people who attend or watch every game, and the people who read the scores, a few articles, and keep up on alumni news that always paints a nice picture. If you didn't tune in much during the season, but watched the tourney game...We don't play any particular brand or style of basketball, and that's been very consistent. There are no teams in the Sweet 16 that play our style of hope-for-a-fast-break offense that eventually reverts to one on one moves in the half-court. We are fortunate to have (had) some truly gifted players like Harrison, Pointer, and Jordan, who can create things out of nowhere to put points on the board. If I didn't watch all of the games and go to a few as well, I wouldn't know that by seeing our record, or seeing us in the bracket on selection Sunday. I'm not claiming to be a coach, or someone smarter than a division 1 coach, but I know what good fundamental basketball is, and for myself and several others on this board, we know that a top recruiting class will not be given a fair chance to realize their potential on the court.

 

[southernjohnny2]

Both polls have value. Mine was in no way intended to diminish or distract from this one.

I thought it was interesting that so many of the posters who commented (and there are clearly many who voted but didn't comment) made it clear that their vote was a "yes if", as in "if we can't do better" or "if there's a low buyout," etc.

Since this poll was Lavin vs the unknown, I thought it would be interesting to see the results of Lavin vs a known. There were limited options, so I picked Lavin plus a couple of the better known names.

The result is interesting. It seems to show that while about 60% of the responders prefer Lavin to the unknown (and clearly many are bearing in mind that it is SJU who would be picking the unknown), about 60% of the responders prefer another (specific and potentially available) coach to Lavin.

Those who disagree with the results of one poll or the other shouldn't criticize the polls or read into the motivation of posting them. The numbers are what they are. I think each gives you some insight into how the sentiments of our fan base fall out.

I look at it slightly different. Both polls thus far show Lavin in the front. Over 60 percent in this poll, and by no means are either a ringing endorsement! But a wake up call for Lavin! He needs to shake up the staff in a big way. I would suggest Whitsell replaced.
I think most people don't want to go back to where we were with Norm, and some of these named kicked around are exactly that! I like the idea of a 3 year extension with his feet in the fire.

 

[Knight]

What is the rule at a poker table? If you can't find the sucker in 10 minutes, its you who is the sucker. Put Lavin at a poker table with the other coaches, do you feel he would outwit anyone? This is nothing against him personally, nor do I wish him ill will but can we do better? Have we underachieved? I expected 25 wins this year. I don't believe that was asking too much. Are there always discipline problems ? Yes. Are we poorly set up for the next two years? Yes. Does the Big East need St. John's to be in its top half yearly? Yes. I don't beileve it happens under Lavin's watch. I see him as a Rex Ryan- he is great with the media, players like to play for him, but like that High School English teacher who you loved but realized after graduating you didn't learn much (if at all) players don't get to their potential under Lavin.-Just My Two Cents.

I think Pointer & DLo reached their potentials.
Branch & Green not so much.

 

[Section3]

Back on topic...I voted yes, keep the coach, despite being off the Lavin bandwagon. I hope the school does due diligence in finding his replacement. I'd love to see an improvement. Barring that, I vote no for an iffy replacement that'll set us back another few years.

I don't trust the powers that be to find anything other than a slick talker. Extend Lavin.

d I

And i dont want someone with a lot of bucks, but little knowledge ofthe coaching ranks dictating the next coach..

 

[monte]

Both polls have value. Mine was in no way intended to diminish or distract from this one.

I thought it was interesting that so many of the posters who commented (and there are clearly many who voted but didn't comment) made it clear that their vote was a "yes if", as in "if we can't do better" or "if there's a low buyout," etc.

Since this poll was Lavin vs the unknown, I thought it would be interesting to see the results of Lavin vs a known. There were limited options, so I picked Lavin plus a couple of the better known names.

The result is interesting. It seems to show that while about 60% of the responders prefer Lavin to the unknown (and clearly many are bearing in mind that it is SJU who would be picking the unknown), about 60% of the responders prefer another (specific and potentially available) coach to Lavin.

Those who disagree with the results of one poll or the other shouldn't criticize the polls or read into the motivation of posting them. The numbers are what they are. I think each gives you some insight into how the sentiments of our fan base fall out.

I look at it slightly different. Both polls thus far show Lavin in the front. Over 60 percent in this poll, and by no means are either a ringing endorsement! But a wake up call for Lavin! He needs to shake up the staff in a big way. I would suggest Whitsell replaced.
I think most people don't want to go back to where we were with Norm, and some of these named kicked around are exactly that! I like the idea of a 3 year extension with his feet in the fire.

A. If he hasn't figured out how to put a staff together by now he should not be a head coach
B. If he needs his "feet in the fire" in order to be motivated then he should not be a head coach
C. The fact that people are saying that the school should give him an extension and tell him what kind of changes he needs to make tells me me he should not be a head coach.
D. If he's still trying to "figure it out" after all these years, especially at 2mil+ per year, then something is seriously wrong and he should not be a head coach.

Additionally you cannot compare any of the coaches who would be serious candidates to Norm, who had no D1 head coaching experience, and a losing record at every other level of coaching. I understand your fondness for Lavin, but lets please keep some perspective here.

 

[bamafan]

What is the rule at a poker table? If you can't find the sucker in 10 minutes, its you who is the sucker. Put Lavin at a poker table with the other coaches, do you feel he would outwit anyone? This is nothing against him personally, nor do I wish him ill will but can we do better? Have we underachieved? I expected 25 wins this year. I don't believe that was asking too much. Are there always discipline problems ? Yes. Are we poorly set up for the next two years? Yes. Does the Big East need St. John's to be in its top half yearly? Yes. I don't beileve it happens under Lavin's watch. I see him as a Rex Ryan- he is great with the media, players like to play for him, but like that High School English teacher who you loved but realized after graduating you didn't learn much (if at all) players don't get to their potential under Lavin.-Just My Two Cents.

I would of agreed with you after the game Friday night which was a hard pill to swallow, however when I look at the difference in Pointer this season, and how much his game improved and his patience at the top of the key against the zone I was impressed. He was named most improved in the conference. I was impressed with the maturity of Dlo all season long. He really matured. Then I go to Sheed, and he really matured as well as the season went on. He went from a me first euro walking selfish take it to the hole everytime to letting the game come to him.

I agree the recruiting this last cycle was a mess. He should of had a couple blue chippers to fill the gap so we weren't left with a bakers dozen of schollies to give out.I really like what we have coming in next year, and have been a big fan of BSamp, and Samir, I think both of them will be instant offense from day 1. We got on Samir before he blew up, and locked him up. I think we are good at guards but definitely need a really good couple of forwards. I am not one wanting Obekpa coming back, but Sheed would be huge

It's interesting to see Lavin getting credit for the improvement in Dom. If you read the article about Dom's improvement, what actually occurred is that Dom's father couldn't figure out why Dom had lost so much confidence and gotten so bad under Lavin. He went and found a basketball tutor for Dom in California, and the rest is history.

I can't think of many things more damning than for a player to get so little help from an NCAA Division 1 coach and staff that his father had to go find outside help for him. Which clearly did a heck of a lot more for the kid than anyone here did.

Similarly I'll give Lavin some credit for suspending Harrison (though I'm pretty sure he really didn't have much of a choice). Yet it was Lucas who spurred the transformation. Once again, a player who didn't get what he needed here and had to go elsewhere to get it.

Lavin still deserves credit for Dom's improvement for doing so little for him and hurting his confidence that it made Dom and his dad seek the outside help that led to his improvement.

 

[OLV72]

I see Lavin winning by 25 points. It's like Reagan versus Mondale or us versus Nova.

This election was called 24 hour ago.

 

[bamafan]

I see Lavin winning by 25 points. It's like Reagan versus Mondale or us versus Nova.

This election was called 24 hour ago.

But the controlling electoral college votes go for a coaching change.