Coaching Alternatives

[quote="Sju grad 13" post=336196][quote="Class of 72" post=336193][quote="otis" post=336188][quote="mattc" post=336161]
...... t someone I trust who has connections told me he's heard from a couple different sources there's chatter about Mullin possibly stepping aside and that would clear the path for Bobby Hurley. ..... .[/quote]

—————-
Per the below linked news article Coach Hurley’s 2018 contract extension, (which contains retention bonuses for him to stay at UArizona) provides that there is a $2.5M buyout to be paid to UArizona if he leaves to coach another school.

I would be shoked if St.John’s has $2.5M or has a donor that will pay the $2M buyout fee.

“If Hurley leaves for another job
If Hurley breaks the contract to take a college or pro coaching position, the university may require Hurley to pay the school:

$3 million if Hurley terminates the contract in the first year of the five-year deal.

$2.5 million if Hurley terminates the contract the second year.

$2 million if Hurley terminates the contract the third year.

$500,000 if Hurley terminates the contract the fourth year”

[URL]https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.azcentral.com/amp/1082866001[/URL][/quote]

Thanks for the info Otis. I agree there is no way SJ pays to get any coach out of his contract. Our esteemed president has not even allowed Mullin to fill a $500K Slice vacancy over the past three years. I don't think he has a vision for the basketball program other than cost containment. Cragg is caught between a rock and a hard place. In the end it has always been the president of the university that made the final bad decision and we have been led by the weakest presidents for over 20 years now compared to all the other Big East schools.[/quote]

You’re incorrect about filling that slice role. Mullin could’ve filled that spot anytime over the last two years if he wanted to, he chose not to.

That’s not Bobby G fault that’s Mullin arrogance.[/quote]

Not what I heard two years ago. A Matt raise was the only budgetary compromise approved. Mullin had to eat the headcount position. Same issue with Mike Rice position. Administration refused to allocate ANY position or dollars. The buck stops with the university president and not Chris Mullin.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=336198][quote="Sju grad 13" post=336196][quote="Class of 72" post=336193][quote="otis" post=336188][quote="mattc" post=336161]
...... t someone I trust who has connections told me he's heard from a couple different sources there's chatter about Mullin possibly stepping aside and that would clear the path for Bobby Hurley. ..... .[/quote]

—————-
Per the below linked news article Coach Hurley’s 2018 contract extension, (which contains retention bonuses for him to stay at UArizona) provides that there is a $2.5M buyout to be paid to UArizona if he leaves to coach another school.

I would be shoked if St.John’s has $2.5M or has a donor that will pay the $2M buyout fee.

“If Hurley leaves for another job
If Hurley breaks the contract to take a college or pro coaching position, the university may require Hurley to pay the school:

$3 million if Hurley terminates the contract in the first year of the five-year deal.

$2.5 million if Hurley terminates the contract the second year.

$2 million if Hurley terminates the contract the third year.

$500,000 if Hurley terminates the contract the fourth year”

[URL]https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.azcentral.com/amp/1082866001[/URL][/quote]

Thanks for the info Otis. I agree there is no way SJ pays to get any coach out of his contract. Our esteemed president has not even allowed Mullin to fill a $500K Slice vacancy over the past three years. I don't think he has a vision for the basketball program other than cost containment. Cragg is caught between a rock and a hard place. In the end it has always been the president of the university that made the final bad decision and we have been led by the weakest presidents for over 20 years now compared to all the other Big East schools.[/quote]

You’re incorrect about filling that slice role. Mullin could’ve filled that spot anytime over the last two years if he wanted to, he chose not to.

That’s not Bobby G fault that’s Mullin arrogance.[/quote]

Not what I heard two years ago. A Matt raise was the only budgetary compromise approved. Mullin had to eat the headcount position. Same issue with Mike Rice position. Administration refused to allocate ANY position or dollars. The buck stops with the university president and not Chris Mullin.[/quote]

Well considering Mitch assumed Slice's role and his salary is also absurd granted not as absurd as Slice I don't fault admin from saying no more headcount for fear of Billy Owens or someone getting a cushy job.
 
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I'm not exactly impressed with "coach" Bobby Hurley, and our first round game against ASU solidified that. That was a poorly coached game for both teams, and was a tournament embarrassment. Felt like a lot of negative energy coming from Bobby Hurley the entire game. No thanks.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=336193][quote="otis" post=336188][quote="mattc" post=336161]
...... t someone I trust who has connections told me he's heard from a couple different sources there's chatter about Mullin possibly stepping aside and that would clear the path for Bobby Hurley. ..... .[/quote]

—————-
Per the below linked news article Coach Hurley’s 2018 contract extension, (which contains retention bonuses for him to stay at UArizona) provides that there is a $2.5M buyout to be paid to UArizona if he leaves to coach another school.

I would be shoked if St.John’s has $2.5M or has a donor that will pay the $2M buyout fee.

“If Hurley leaves for another job
If Hurley breaks the contract to take a college or pro coaching position, the university may require Hurley to pay the school:

$3 million if Hurley terminates the contract in the first year of the five-year deal.

$2.5 million if Hurley terminates the contract the second year.

$2 million if Hurley terminates the contract the third year.

$500,000 if Hurley terminates the contract the fourth year”

[URL]https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.azcentral.com/amp/1082866001[/URL][/quote]

Thanks for the info Otis. I agree there is no way SJ pays to get any coach out of his contract. Our esteemed president has not even allowed Mullin to fill a $500K Slice vacancy over the past three years. I don't think he has a vision for the basketball program other than cost containment. Cragg is caught between a rock and a hard place. In the end it has always been the president of the university that made the final bad decision and we have been led by the weakest presidents for over 20 years now compared to all the other Big East schools.[/quote]

Just because someone doesn't want to endow a bunch of professorships doesn't mean an individual or group don't want to fund a new vision for the program, especially if their money buys influence.
 
[quote="SJU61982" post=336204]See, this is why I think it will always be hard for us to get an established, high-major coach to come here.

The second it becomes public that UCLA (a school in a similar situation to us, although not identical) has made inquiries to John Calipari, this happens:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26417804/kentucky-offers-calipari-life-deal[/quote]

He's the highest paid coach in the nation, at a blue blood who consistently gets 5 star lottery picks every year. Him going to UCLA would just revive another blue blood at UCLA. This has no impact on SJU, but I'd rather he stay at UK. We (along with 99% of teams) are light years away from trying to poach Calipari.
 
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[quote="Adam" post=336205][quote="SJU61982" post=336204]See, this is why I think it will always be hard for us to get an established, high-major coach to come here.

The second it becomes public that UCLA (a school in a similar situation to us, although not identical) has made inquiries to John Calipari, this happens:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26417804/kentucky-offers-calipari-life-deal[/quote]

He's the highest paid coach in the nation, at a blue blood who consistently gets 5 star lottery picks every year. Him going to UCLA would just revive another blue blood at UCLA. This has no impact on SJU, but I'd rather he stay at UK. We (along with 99% of teams) are light years away from trying to poach Calipari.[/quote]

Exactly. What does this have to do with SJU?
 
[quote="fordham96" post=336206][quote="Adam" post=336205][quote="SJU61982" post=336204]See, this is why I think it will always be hard for us to get an established, high-major coach to come here.

The second it becomes public that UCLA (a school in a similar situation to us, although not identical) has made inquiries to John Calipari, this happens:

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26417804/kentucky-offers-calipari-life-deal[/quote]

He's the highest paid coach in the nation, at a blue blood who consistently gets 5 star lottery picks every year. Him going to UCLA would just revive another blue blood at UCLA. This has no impact on SJU, but I'd rather he stay at UK. We (along with 99% of teams) are light years away from trying to poach Calipari.[/quote]

Exactly. What does this have to do with SJU?[/quote]

I think UCLA is very similar to us, in terms of our situation.

A lot of people think that the basketball program should be a lot better then it is. They're right of course, but I don't think it can ever be like it was in the past, for them, or us.

Neither program has been a major factor in college hoops (with the exception of a few years here and there) for a long, long time, now.

EDIT: I just went through the forum again. I meant to put this in the "2019 Coaching Changes" thread. My apologies (although I think my general point still stands).
 
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Past 20 years:
STJ - 5 tourneys, 0 Sweet Sixteens, 1 tourney win
UCLA - 14 tourneys, 9 Sweet Sixteens, 3 Final Fours, 1 National Title Game

Yeah, pretty much the same.

UCLA ain't Duke anymore, that's for sure but their recent history would be nirvana for STJ fans. But the natives here are very hard to please that's for sure as well. When they don't get Cal I wonder, given their boredom with Howland's system, if they'll be in favor of going after another defensive slow down coach like Bennett or Beard?
 
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[quote="Class of 72" post=336198][quote="Sju grad 13" post=336196][quote="Class of 72" post=336193][quote="otis" post=336188][quote="mattc" post=336161]
...... t someone I trust who has connections told me he's heard from a couple different sources there's chatter about Mullin possibly stepping aside and that would clear the path for Bobby Hurley. ..... .[/quote]

—————-
Per the below linked news article Coach Hurley’s 2018 contract extension, (which contains retention bonuses for him to stay at UArizona) provides that there is a $2.5M buyout to be paid to UArizona if he leaves to coach another school.

I would be shoked if St.John’s has $2.5M or has a donor that will pay the $2M buyout fee.

“If Hurley leaves for another job
If Hurley breaks the contract to take a college or pro coaching position, the university may require Hurley to pay the school:

$3 million if Hurley terminates the contract in the first year of the five-year deal.

$2.5 million if Hurley terminates the contract the second year.

$2 million if Hurley terminates the contract the third year.

$500,000 if Hurley terminates the contract the fourth year”

[URL]https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.azcentral.com/amp/1082866001[/URL][/quote]

Thanks for the info Otis. I agree there is no way SJ pays to get any coach out of his contract. Our esteemed president has not even allowed Mullin to fill a $500K Slice vacancy over the past three years. I don't think he has a vision for the basketball program other than cost containment. Cragg is caught between a rock and a hard place. In the end it has always been the president of the university that made the final bad decision and we have been led by the weakest presidents for over 20 years now compared to all the other Big East schools.[/quote]

You’re incorrect about filling that slice role. Mullin could’ve filled that spot anytime over the last two years if he wanted to, he chose not to.

That’s not Bobby G fault that’s Mullin arrogance.[/quote]

Not what I heard two years ago. A Matt raise was the only budgetary compromise approved. Mullin had to eat the headcount position. Same issue with Mike Rice position. Administration refused to allocate ANY position or dollars. The buck stops with the university president and not Chris Mullin.[/quote]

So you’re saying that once the school opened the bank(so to speak) for Matt, they refused to allocate any more money for the another asst?
 
[quote="Monte" post=336244][quote="Class of 72" post=336198][quote="Sju grad 13" post=336196][quote="Class of 72" post=336193][quote="otis" post=336188][quote="mattc" post=336161]
...... t someone I trust who has connections told me he's heard from a couple different sources there's chatter about Mullin possibly stepping aside and that would clear the path for Bobby Hurley. ..... .[/quote]

—————-
Per the below linked news article Coach Hurley’s 2018 contract extension, (which contains retention bonuses for him to stay at UArizona) provides that there is a $2.5M buyout to be paid to UArizona if he leaves to coach another school.

I would be shoked if St.John’s has $2.5M or has a donor that will pay the $2M buyout fee.

“If Hurley leaves for another job
If Hurley breaks the contract to take a college or pro coaching position, the university may require Hurley to pay the school:

$3 million if Hurley terminates the contract in the first year of the five-year deal.

$2.5 million if Hurley terminates the contract the second year.

$2 million if Hurley terminates the contract the third year.

$500,000 if Hurley terminates the contract the fourth year”

[URL]https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.azcentral.com/amp/1082866001[/URL][/quote]

Thanks for the info Otis. I agree there is no way SJ pays to get any coach out of his contract. Our esteemed president has not even allowed Mullin to fill a $500K Slice vacancy over the past three years. I don't think he has a vision for the basketball program other than cost containment. Cragg is caught between a rock and a hard place. In the end it has always been the president of the university that made the final bad decision and we have been led by the weakest presidents for over 20 years now compared to all the other Big East schools.[/quote]

You’re incorrect about filling that slice role. Mullin could’ve filled that spot anytime over the last two years if he wanted to, he chose not to.

That’s not Bobby G fault that’s Mullin arrogance.[/quote]

Not what I heard two years ago. A Matt raise was the only budgetary compromise approved. Mullin had to eat the headcount position. Same issue with Mike Rice position. Administration refused to allocate ANY position or dollars. The buck stops with the university president and not Chris Mullin.[/quote]

So you’re saying that once the school opened the bank(so to speak) for Matt, they refused to allocate any more money for the another asst?[/quote]

This very old news. Slice has never come off payroll. There was zero cause for termination and his contract apparently was rock solid. Oliva and Bobby approved that contract, not Mullin. Moving Mitch laterally was the only option Mullin had otherwise they would be carrying 5 coaches on payroll. All Bobby and Oliva had to do was finance a buyout. They refused and it bit them and the program on the ass.
What is puzzling is folks here are speculating about buying out some head coach's contract to dump Mullin. This president refused to buy out the contract of an assistant coach which has set back staffing for three years. Now we are discussing replacing Matt because supposedly there is zero recruiting taking place.
Discussion here about staff have reached Twighlit Zone levels.
This is not on Cragg but on Gampsesaw and always has been.
 
[quote="austour" post=336242]Past 20 years:
STJ - 5 tourneys, 0 Sweet Sixteens, 1 tourney win
UCLA - 14 tourneys, 9 Sweet Sixteens, 3 Final Fours, 1 National Title Game

Yeah, pretty much the same.

…...and I don't think anyone would confuse Carnesecca Arena with Pauley Pavilion.
 
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[quote="Class of 72" post=336255][quote="Monte" post=336244][quote="Class of 72" post=336198][quote="Sju grad 13" post=336196][quote="Class of 72" post=336193][quote="otis" post=336188][quote="mattc" post=336161]
...... t someone I trust who has connections told me he's heard from a couple different sources there's chatter about Mullin possibly stepping aside and that would clear the path for Bobby Hurley. ..... .[/quote]

—————-
Per the below linked news article Coach Hurley’s 2018 contract extension, (which contains retention bonuses for him to stay at UArizona) provides that there is a $2.5M buyout to be paid to UArizona if he leaves to coach another school.

I would be shoked if St.John’s has $2.5M or has a donor that will pay the $2M buyout fee.

“If Hurley leaves for another job
If Hurley breaks the contract to take a college or pro coaching position, the university may require Hurley to pay the school:

$3 million if Hurley terminates the contract in the first year of the five-year deal.

$2.5 million if Hurley terminates the contract the second year.

$2 million if Hurley terminates the contract the third year.

$500,000 if Hurley terminates the contract the fourth year”

[URL]https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.azcentral.com/amp/1082866001[/URL][/quote]

Thanks for the info Otis. I agree there is no way SJ pays to get any coach out of his contract. Our esteemed president has not even allowed Mullin to fill a $500K Slice vacancy over the past three years. I don't think he has a vision for the basketball program other than cost containment. Cragg is caught between a rock and a hard place. In the end it has always been the president of the university that made the final bad decision and we have been led by the weakest presidents for over 20 years now compared to all the other Big East schools.[/quote]

You’re incorrect about filling that slice role. Mullin could’ve filled that spot anytime over the last two years if he wanted to, he chose not to.

That’s not Bobby G fault that’s Mullin arrogance.[/quote]

Not what I heard two years ago. A Matt raise was the only budgetary compromise approved. Mullin had to eat the headcount position. Same issue with Mike Rice position. Administration refused to allocate ANY position or dollars. The buck stops with the university president and not Chris Mullin.[/quote]

So you’re saying that once the school opened the bank(so to speak) for Matt, they refused to allocate any more money for the another asst?[/quote]

This very old news. Slice has never come off payroll. There was zero cause for termination and his contract apparently was rock solid. Oliva and Bobby approved that contract, not Mullin. Moving Mitch laterally was the only option Mullin had otherwise they would be carrying 5 coaches on payroll. All Bobby and Oliva had to do was finance a buyout. They refused and it bit them and the program on the ass.
What is puzzling is folks here are speculating about buying out some head coach's contract to dump Mullin. This president refused to buy out the contract of an assistant coach which has set back staffing for three years. Now we are discussing replacing Matt because supposedly there is zero recruiting taking place.
Discussion here about staff have reached Twighlit Zone levels.
This is not on Cragg but on Gampsesaw and always has been.[/quote] A friend of mine is an extremely successful business consultant but makes about 25% of what Mullin makes. He decided he needed to hire someone else to bring in new clients in addition to what he was already doing and basically hired someone for 100k guaranteed salary out of his own pocket just to start plus % of new biz. Best move he ever made

So sure Bobby G deserves blame but bottom line is if you are making 2 million a year and want to win there are no excuses because you find a way yourself to get it done if the school cant
 
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[quote="Las Vegan" post=336257][quote="austour" post=336242]Past 20 years:
STJ - 5 tourneys, 0 Sweet Sixteens, 1 tourney win
UCLA - 14 tourneys, 9 Sweet Sixteens, 3 Final Fours, 1 National Title Game

Yeah, pretty much the same.

…...and I don't think anyone would confuse Carnesecca Arena with Pauley Pavilion.[/quote]

Crowds are actually pretty close
 
[quote="Moose" post=336264][quote="Las Vegan" post=336257][quote="austour" post=336242]Past 20 years:
STJ - 5 tourneys, 0 Sweet Sixteens, 1 tourney win
UCLA - 14 tourneys, 9 Sweet Sixteens, 3 Final Fours, 1 National Title Game

Yeah, pretty much the same.

…...and I don't think anyone would confuse Carnesecca Arena with Pauley Pavilion.[/quote]

Crowds are actually pretty close[/quote]

Not between CA and Pauley, but overall quite likely. Pauley only holds a bit over 12K and they play no home games off campus so that sets their maximum well below the capacity for MSG. Not much room for opposing fan bases, at least no where near what it is in MSG.
 
[quote="austour" post=336265][quote="Moose" post=336264][quote="Las Vegan" post=336257][quote="austour" post=336242]Past 20 years:
STJ - 5 tourneys, 0 Sweet Sixteens, 1 tourney win
UCLA - 14 tourneys, 9 Sweet Sixteens, 3 Final Fours, 1 National Title Game

Yeah, pretty much the same.

…...and I don't think anyone would confuse Carnesecca Arena with Pauley Pavilion.[/quote]

Crowds are actually pretty close[/quote]

Not between CA and Pauley, but overall quite likely. Pauley only holds a bit over 12K and they play no home games off campus so that sets their maximum well below the capacity for MSG. Not much room for opposing fan bases, at least no where near what it is in MSG.[/quote]

I thought they struggle at Pauley to draw
 
[quote="Moose" post=336266][quote="austour" post=336265][quote="Moose" post=336264][quote="Las Vegan" post=336257][quote="austour" post=336242]Past 20 years:
STJ - 5 tourneys, 0 Sweet Sixteens, 1 tourney win
UCLA - 14 tourneys, 9 Sweet Sixteens, 3 Final Fours, 1 National Title Game

Yeah, pretty much the same.

…...and I don't think anyone would confuse Carnesecca Arena with Pauley Pavilion.[/quote]

Crowds are actually pretty close[/quote]

Not between CA and Pauley, but overall quite likely. Pauley only holds a bit over 12K and they play no home games off campus so that sets their maximum well below the capacity for MSG. Not much room for opposing fan bases, at least no where near what it is in MSG.[/quote]

I thought they struggle at Pauley to draw[/quote]

They struggle to get season ticket holders into their seats when they're not in the national title conversation. That's kind of a different problem. Pretty spoiled. Most recent stats I could find was for two years ago and they averaged over 11K in a 12K venue with a lot of crap games on campus in November and December.
 
This year and last was quite low but they've only averaged under 8K 3 times including this year and average 11.2K in 2017, close to 12K per game in conference play. Fair weather fans, like Angelenos are for all teams, but UCLA generates a lot of fair weather. Impossible ticket during periods like Howlands first 5 years and only crap tickets available even in only OK years. But yeah, things there are bad right now. I was talking more historically than the immediate present.
 
[quote="austour" post=336274][quote="Moose" post=336266][quote="austour" post=336265][quote="Moose" post=336264][quote="Las Vegan" post=336257][quote="austour" post=336242]Past 20 years:
STJ - 5 tourneys, 0 Sweet Sixteens, 1 tourney win
UCLA - 14 tourneys, 9 Sweet Sixteens, 3 Final Fours, 1 National Title Game

Yeah, pretty much the same.

…...and I don't think anyone would confuse Carnesecca Arena with Pauley Pavilion.[/quote]

Crowds are actually pretty close[/quote]

Not between CA and Pauley, but overall quite likely. Pauley only holds a bit over 12K and they play no home games off campus so that sets their maximum well below the capacity for MSG. Not much room for opposing fan bases, at least no where near what it is in MSG.[/quote]

I thought they struggle at Pauley to draw[/quote]

They struggle to get season ticket holders into their seats when they're not in the national title conversation. That's kind of a different problem. Pretty spoiled. Most recent stats I could find was for two years ago and they averaged over 11K in a 12K venue with a lot of crap games on campus in November and December.[/quote]

That was the highest year in 2016-17. Please see the past 5 years in this recent Bruins blog.

https://gojoebruin.com/2018/12/26/u...-struggling-ucla-is-giving-away-free-tickets/
 
[quote="austour" post=336242]Past 20 years:
STJ - 5 tourneys, 0 Sweet Sixteens, 1 tourney win
UCLA - 14 tourneys, 9 Sweet Sixteens, 3 Final Fours, 1 National Title Game

Yeah, pretty much the same.

UCLA ain't Duke anymore, that's for sure but their recent history would be nirvana for STJ fans. But the natives here are very hard to please that's for sure as well. When they don't get Cal I wonder, given their boredom with Howland's system, if they'll be in favor of going after another defensive slow down coach like Bennett or Beard?[/quote]

Hey 3 of those sweet 16's were Lavin's. I found the connection.
 
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