Cluess

[quote="Section3" post=341263][quote="billthetruth" post=341165][quote="Paultzman" post=341156]Have to think Cluess coming down stretch is the guy. Add Borman, Rasheen Davis, another quality AC and go to work. Practical hire at this point.[/quote]

Got to think Cluess and Borman would keep LJ and Heron here which would give us fighting chance next year with sit out transfers and some grad transfer addition.[/quote]
Those are the easier ones. The test is letting recommit from Tabor, Manuel et al[/quote]
Forget Manuel
 
[quote="Ray Morgan" post=341181][quote="Paultzman" post=341156]Have to think Cluess coming down stretch is the guy. Add Borman, Rasheen Davis, another quality AC and go to work. Practical hire at this point.[/quote]

He is a practical hire like the Toyota Camry is a practical car. It gets you from home to the store and back with great reliability. It gets you to Bingo on time. It's the safe choice for a man on a budget. But it doesn't inspire excitement. There are tons of Camrys on the lot. I would rather pursue a limited edition Porsche, and give our best offer after reaching between the seat cushions for every last nickel. Every coaching hire is a chance to bring the program to greatness. I don't see greatness with Cluess. Like others have said, with all the coaching changes since he was at Iona, who has pursued him?[/quote]
Agree. Long term vision is an absolute must. But, we can’t give up the next 2 years and return to the leftover scraps we cobbled together during Mullin’s 1st two seasons.

And, that short and long term approach requires someone who inspires excitement.
 
I have no particularly strong opinions on who exactly the next hire should be.
That said here are some thoughts about the process, other things and the Cluess candidacy:

First and foremost it is far better to do it right than to do it quick. When pressured to act quickly, mistakes are often made and to be thorough is very important. While I agree it has great value to keep our best pieces here, making the best hire will do more than anything to get our people back on board.

Secondly I have felt from the beginning that Cragg would make his next hire from someone with Duke on his resume somewhere. With Cragg being at Duke for thirty-one years, having him go in this direction makes total sense to me. Regardless of who that person is the Coach K hiring branches have largely been pretty successful, so if that is where are next hire comes from it is not necessarily a bad thing.

Thirdly, if Cragg goes in another direction and goes outside of the Duke tree then that could work out well too. As long as there is some due diligence done and it is a well thought out hire.

In that regard if Cluess is the hire, he certainly checks many of the boxes that people have felt that our previous hires did not.
1) Mahoney (losing coach at his other HC gig Manhattan)
2) Fraschilla (using the job as a stepping stone to other things)
3) Jarvis (No New York ties, unethical and arrogant, looking to use the job as a stepping stone to other things)
4) Roberts (Losing coach at his other HC gig Queens College)
5) Lavin (only a HC coach at one place (UCLA), was bashed by some UCLA folk when fired, no local connections, more shine than substance, perceived as weak on Xs and Os by some and perceived by some to not work at his craft)
6) Mullin (No head coaching experience, doesn't understand the college game)

Cluess has consistently won everywhere, High School, D2 and D1. In those jobs he won championships in most years. Additionally he is well respected and well connected locally, he has deep familial St. John's roots and understands the culture and tradition here on a really personal level. He seems to have a good grasp on the college game, plays an upbeat style that is player friendly and will not likely be looking to take this job to leave it for an upwardly mobile move.

Does he have some question marks (Age, lack of power conference success)? Yes of course, but every candidate has question marks on their resume. Those question marks are part of the reason they are available for us to hire. Cluess does seem to check the boxes that many of our previous hires have not. If he is the choice, than like all our previous hires I will be behind it and hope for the best.
 
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[quote="Monte" post=341213][quote="Paultzman" post=341156]Have to think Cluess coming down stretch is the guy. Add Borman, Rasheen Davis, another quality AC and go to work. Practical hire at this point.[/quote]

Feeling same way as you Paultz for a couple of reasons. First, don’t feel confident that we’ll have any success with any of the other candidates, and we don’t have the luxury of time. Second, not even sure that any of the other candidates are a much better hire than Cluess. So why waste our time if we’re not going after someone who is clearly far superior to Cluess? When Mullin resigned I wanted the next coach to be a home run. For a variety of reasons that ain’t happening. So now I’ve shifted my thought process to “who is safest bet”, and the one name that keeps coming up is Tim Cluess. Seems the same people who complain about our coaching situation since Louie, are the same ones who want us to take a bigger risk on the next hire. I understand the whole risk/reward thing, but at this point I’d be thrilled with a solid coach who wants to be here and who, provided he meets with success, will be here for the next 10-15 years. That’s Tim Cluess.[/quote]
While there are a lot of comparable coaching options out there, the differentiator is emphasis on defense.
 
[quote="Section3" post=341261][quote="Beast of the East" post=341131][quote="Class of 72" post=341050][quote="L J S A" post=341031][quote="Section9" post=340911][quote="RedStormNC" post=340905]Adam Zagoria
‏@AdamZagoria

Source: Tim Cluess’ buyout has caused things to become ‘stagnant’ with @StJohnsBBall. The buyout is in the $2-2.5M range.[/quote]

Apparently we were willing to pay at least that amount for Hurley but the same, or lower, amount has caused things to become stagnant with Cluess. Hmmm.[/quote]

The cash was coming from somewhere else for Hurley. Maybe he doesn't want his money spent on Cluess. I don't think the rejection by Hurley makes us look as bad as some posters think, but if Cluess was legitimately a top fallback option, not paying for his buyout makes us look like we're returning to the penny-pinching Norm days. President Bean Counter seemingly doesn't have the vision or the testicular fortitude to make a move that would solve the basketball problem and make a nice dent in the school's financial problems.[/quote]

This entire mess is the fault of a guy who should not have been a university President and he hired a guy who should not have been a college basketball coach. I will be disappointed if he is St. John's long term leader. Academically we are last in the Big East. He is now cementing our place in the conference basketball cellar.[/quote]

Actually, Gempeshaw, aside from not being the charismatic fundraiser that many school put way high on the list, has brought in top notch academic leaders who I was told would not have come here without his leadership. Top students are also coming here. In the past we'd get maybe 2 or 3 Chaminade grads. Due to Gempeshaw's direct advocacy, St John's was the number 3 choice of Chami grads, sending over 20 kids here last year. It's happening at other area catholic high schools also, like in the old days. He also led us out of some very bleak finances after markets tanked plus federal guarantees of student loans caused an enrollment shortfall of 500 incoming freshmen.

Think about the realities of st. John's basketball. Considering how much chris Mack and Danny Hurley got paid from Louisville and uconn, how much more would either have wanted from st. John's to come here? 500k per? 1 mm? Probably both would have turned even that much more down to choose where they went.

$ 2 mm spent on Mullin wasnt chicken feed and it's clear they were upping that to go after Bobby Hurley. What more do you expect?[/quote]
Glad to hear the academic side is looking up...thanks Beast[/quote]

I really like to hear that. My son goes to a very academically rigorous public high school in Queens. It's a very diverse school that represents NYC well. Not that it matters to me but there are actually quite a few Catholic students there. Some of the students prefer to stay local for college often for family reasons and a number go to CUNY schools, particularly in honors programs. With the financial aid opportunities at SJU it is a very affordable school for many of these kids. Actually can be cheaper than going to a state school like StonyBrook. These are kids you want to offer scholarships to and its nice to hear that St. john's is a good alternative for them.
 
[quote="Ray Morgan" post=341181][quote="Paultzman" post=341156]Have to think Cluess coming down stretch is the guy. Add Borman, Rasheen Davis, another quality AC and go to work. Practical hire at this point.[/quote]

He is a practical hire like the Toyota Camry is a practical car. It gets you from home to the store and back with great reliability. It gets you to Bingo on time. It's the safe choice for a man on a budget. But it doesn't inspire excitement. There are tons of Camrys on the lot. I would rather pursue a limited edition Porsche, and give our best offer after reaching between the seat cushions for every last nickel. Every coaching hire is a chance to bring the program to greatness. I don't see greatness with Cluess. Like others have said, with all the coaching changes since he was at Iona, who has pursued him?[/quote]

I know nothing about the details of Tim Cluess's coaching history in terms of what programs have pursued him beyond the local schools he's been associated with, but Beast knows the guy and has implied that Tim has had 'some' attractive non-local offers or opportunities over the years but refused to pursue them for 'personal' reasons.
 
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[quote="mattc" post=341157][quote="Paultzman" post=341156]Have to think Cluess coming down stretch is the guy. Add Borman, Rasheen Davis, another quality AC and go to work. Practical hire at this point.[/quote]

Thank God for Mike Cragg. I mean seriously, what other AD in the country could've delivered TIm Cluess to St. John's. Masterful work here.[/quote]

Ohhhh yeah, great job mikey.
Tim is gonna bring greatness back with all these 97-91 losses.
What a bang up job.

So why don't they just announce it already, why the wait?
 
Question; if the choice is Cluess why hasn't it happened yet? I believe he is the fall back if all else fails.

I think a lot of the posts I am reading show an inferiority complex about SJU. I don't think a coach would be so quick to jump to any "power conference school" if they got this school going in the right direction. I am sure you all were witness to the hype and vibe at MSG this year (and with Lavin) with just the small success we had. Can you Imagine what that becomes if we can consistently win? Would someone go to Duke, Kentucky, UNC; most likely, but Virginia Tech or Wake Forest, I don't think so.
 
[quote="billthetruth" post=341171][quote="mkras99" post=341164][quote="Paultzman" post=341156]Have to think Cluess coming down stretch is the guy. Add Borman, Rasheen Davis, another quality AC and go to work. Practical hire at this point.[/quote]

Maybe, but practical not to rush at this point. This hire shouldn’t be about next year or the year after. Should try to make a smart hire, with long-term vision for once. If that takes another week or two, so be it (on the plus side, might cause some posters to explode).[/quote]

You think this fan base is going to put up with another 2 disaster seasons.They should not be expected.If they lose LJ and Heron and go through another 1 win big east season ticket sales and attendance sales will plummet.

Get Cluess and some ace recruiters In here. He will surprise to upside with limited roster the next couple of years (Guy has done so at every level) while assistants pound pavement and restock talent base over next 18 months[/quote]

Another 2 years? Shit I'm hoping alot of fans don't go to games, stop donating, hurt the sob's in the pocket.
I want SJU to hurt bad from this pathetic hire, if it's indeed Cluess.
In 4 yrs maybe SJU will understand, stop bs'ing the fans, and to get real when the next coaching search begins.

20 years of shit, and now we're getting cluess, why, he said elite and win championships, well you need defense for that, just look at this years championship game?
Cluess wont get us to ELITE STATUS, you're a liar Cragg if you hire Cluess.
 
[quote="Chicago Days" post=341273]
I know nothing about the details of Tim Cluess's coaching history in terms of what programs have pursued him beyond the local schools he's been associated with, but Beast knows the guy and has implied that Tim has had 'some' attractive non-local offers or opportunities over the years but refused to pursue them for 'personal' reasons.[/quote]

Beast would know more than me, and he obviously won't give details anyway, but I believe Cluess' son necessitated the need to stay local -- doctors and/or specific type of schooling. I don't believe it's an issue anymore, but that certainly would have kept him rooted in Floral Park. Iona is pretty much the furthest he would have gone, but I don't doubt there have been other offers. I certainly could see mid-major New Jersey schools sending out feelers over the years.

Plus I don't take him for the most materialistic guy -- I think he's comfortable living in Floral Park and stays even after a big pay boost from us. He's certainly going to love the commute from his house to St. John's if he is indeed the choice early next week.
 
[quote="fan5577" post=341281]Question; if the choice is Cluess why hasn't it happened yet? I believe he is the fall back if all else fails.

I think a lot of the posts I am reading show an inferiority complex about SJU. I don't think a coach would be so quick to jump to any "power conference school" if they got this school going in the right direction. I am sure you all were witness to the hype and vibe at MSG this year (and with Lavin) with just the small success we had. Can you Imagine what that becomes if we can consistently win? Would someone go to Duke, Kentucky, UNC; most likely, but Virginia Tech or Wake Forest, I don't think so.[/quote]

Great post, fan5577! Totally agree.
We are a roughed-up dull gem, if not a 'sleeping' giant.
IF a new HC could produce a steady winning program here, fans would be revived, MSG attendance would jump, the student base would be excited, the NY Media would accelerate the hype, and the $$$'s would roll in.
 
Putting this here, easier
Was told St. John's board of trustees met this afternoon. Could be some clarity on the opening today ... #sjubb
Braziller
 
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[quote="JohnnyFan" post=341294]Sounds good. Now let's get a strong staff in place and hope we picked a winner.[/quote]

If we start hearing rumblings of a Monday or Tuesday announcement I think it'll be Cluess. Stretches further than that and I think Cragg has his eye on another guy and is getting his ducks lined up.
 
[quote="Chicago Days" post=341251][quote="JohnnyFan" post=341196][quote="P Simmons" post=341193][quote="JohnnyFan" post=341191]Agree we should kick the tires on Rhoades. Also, disappointed I am not hearing anything on Odom.

I am not outraged by Cluess, but prefer one of these experienced, up-and-coming coaches in their mid 40s.[/quote]

Odom recently turned down the Virginia Tech job, for what it's worth.
Frank Martin apparently has turned down the Cincy job.[/quote]

Could make the case the SJU job is a better job than VT. The ACC is brutal and Buzz a tough act to follow. If someone like Odom makes the tournament a few times with the Johnnie's, it could get him a bigger job.

By the way, at this point, I wouldn't mind being a stepping stone for a coach. It would mean we had some success and, as a program, we desperately need some momentum.[/quote]

Ah, not Odom. He wouldn't be here more than 3 years. We would just have turned the corner and be thrust back into major uncertainty at a time when kids can leave with a phone call or is it a text to enter the transfer 'portal'? Lol.
I know we're diehard Johnnies fans on this Board and eat 'uncertainty' (and misery) for breakfast, but we also gripe loudly about it as well.
Nah, I think it's time to get a seasoned coach in here for the long term and build a winning program with him.[/quote]

Seriously disagree with not hiring the best coach possible based on an underestimation of St. Johns appeal and prestige. Don't think STJ is stepping stone job to just any P5 job.
So long as we are willing to increase the $$ as his success rises, don't think he leaves for anything less than KU, UK, UCLA Duke, UNC type of gig. No coach is going to leave SJU for a Ohio St or VT unless theyre being lowballed compensation wise...we're not Butler or DePaul.

They should seriously give Odom and others a look before settling lazily on Cluess
 
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[quote="Mean Gene" post=341220][quote="Monte" post=341213][quote="Paultzman" post=341156]Have to think Cluess coming down stretch is the guy. Add Borman, Rasheen Davis, another quality AC and go to work. Practical hire at this point.[/quote]

Feeling same way as you Paultz for a couple of reasons. First, don’t feel confident that we’ll have any success with any of the other candidates, and we don’t have the luxury of time. Second, not even sure that any of the other candidates are a much better hire than Cluess. So why waste our time if we’re not going after someone who is clearly far superior to Cluess? When Mullin resigned I wanted the next coach to be a home run. For a variety of reasons that ain’t happening. So now I’ve shifted my thought process to “who is safest bet”, and the one name that keeps coming up is Tim Cluess. Seems the same people who complain about our coaching situation since Louie, are the same ones who want us to take a bigger risk on the next hire. I understand the whole risk/reward thing, but at this point I’d be thrilled with a solid coach who wants to be here and who, provided he meets with success, will be here for the next 10-15 years. That’s Tim Cluess.[/quote]

Monte, I like Cluess as a safe bet but he’s 60 yrs old and will not be here 10-15 years. I would take Cluess but only if our next coach is sitting on the bench next to him. At this point I would take a shot with a young guy like Scheyer and hope he’s a home run who be here 25 years.[/quote]

60 is the new 50.
 
[quote="MainMan" post=341260][quote="oldschool Redmen" post=341016]

So 20wins every year is good enough for you huh. Happy to finish behind nova every yesr and atleast 1 -2 schools. So 4 place every year is acceptable to you?

Well you settle for that, me? I want to be king of the b.e. every 2 or 3 times in a 5 year period. I want a top 15 program most year.
And i dont care who laughs at this but yeah i want a freaking nc, and I'm saying that with a straight face. Might take 10-15yrs to do it, but if jay did it twice in. 3 yrs at villanova.
There has to be someone that can do 1NC in the next 10yrs.[/quote]

After 25 years of let downs, sanctions, hail marys and an exile to bball wasteland, I'll gladly settle for consistently good.

Actually consistently good sounds like a goddamn steak dinner right now.[/quote]

You and Steve Lavin. Good but not good enough
 
[quote="TobinGrad" post=341297][quote="Chicago Days" post=341251][quote="JohnnyFan" post=341196][quote="P Simmons" post=341193][quote="JohnnyFan" post=341191]Agree we should kick the tires on Rhoades. Also, disappointed I am not hearing anything on Odom.

I am not outraged by Cluess, but prefer one of these experienced, up-and-coming coaches in their mid 40s.[/quote]

Odom recently turned down the Virginia Tech job, for what it's worth.
Frank Martin apparently has turned down the Cincy job.[/quote]

Could make the case the SJU job is a better job than VT. The ACC is brutal and Buzz a tough act to follow. If someone like Odom makes the tournament a few times with the Johnnie's, it could get him a bigger job.

By the way, at this point, I wouldn't mind being a stepping stone for a coach. It would mean we had some success and, as a program, we desperately need some momentum.[/quote]

Ah, not Odom. He wouldn't be here more than 3 years. We would just have turned the corner and be thrust back into major uncertainty at a time when kids can leave with a phone call or is it a text to enter the transfer 'portal'? Lol.
I know we're diehard Johnnies fans on this Board and eat 'uncertainty' (and misery) for breakfast, but we also gripe loudly about it as well.
Nah, I think it's time to get a seasoned coach in here for the long term and build a winning program with him.[/quote]

Seriously disagree with not hiring the best coach possible based on an underestimation of St. Johns appeal and prestige. Don't think STJ is stepping stone job to just any P5 job.
So long as we are willing to increase the $$ as his success rises, don't think he leaves for anything less than KU, UK, UCLA Duke, UNC type of gig. No coach is going to leave SJU for a Ohio St or VT unless theyre being lowballed compensation wise...we're not Butler or DePaul.

They should seriously give Odom and others a look before settling lazily on Cluess[/quote]

Nothing we could do about it but just wish.
 
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