Cluess

[quote="MainMan" post=341223]I know this is crazy in the world of cut-throat collegiate athletics but......

You would think the Iona AD or president would cut Cluess a break on the buyout and let him go to his dream job considering he gave them a decade of unparalleled success and was a model representative of the school.

And even if they weren't that charitable, do they really want a pissed off employee still working for them?[/quote]

That’s a nice thought but no one is giving up a couple of mill.
 
[confidential][/confidential][quote="Mean Gene" post=341220][quote="Monte" post=341213][quote="Paultzman" post=341156]Have to think Cluess coming down stretch is the guy. Add Borman, Rasheen Davis, another quality AC and go to work. Practical hire at this point.[/quote]

Feeling same way as you Paultz for a couple of reasons. First, don’t feel confident that we’ll have any success with any of the other candidates, and we don’t have the luxury of time. Second, not even sure that any of the other candidates are a much better hire than Cluess. So why waste our time if we’re not going after someone who is clearly far superior to Cluess? When Mullin resigned I wanted the next coach to be a home run. For a variety of reasons that ain’t happening. So now I’ve shifted my thought process to “who is safest bet”, and the one name that keeps coming up is Tim Cluess. Seems the same people who complain about our coaching situation since Louie, are the same ones who want us to take a bigger risk on the next hire. I understand the whole risk/reward thing, but at this point I’d be thrilled with a solid coach who wants to be here and who, provided he meets with success, will be here for the next 10-15 years. That’s Tim Cluess.[/quote]

Monte, I like Cluess as a safe bet but he’s 60 yrs old and will not be here 10-15 years. I would take Cluess but only if our next coach is sitting on the bench next to him. At this point I would take a shot with a young guy like Scheyer and hope he’s a home run who be here 25 years.[/quote]

I guess Gene what it boils down to is this: Would you rather take a bigger risk on someone(Sheyer) who has a higher ceiling and who will likely leave if he meets with some success here, or a lower risk on someone with a lower ceiling who will stay here for the long haul? There’s no right or wrong, but as someone who has lived through the coaching changes here over the last 25 years, I’d rather go with the lower risk/lower ceiling guy who will likely be here till he retires.
 
Last edited:
Just throwing this out here, but is it possible that Cluess never wanted this job and hence agreed to that seemingly crazy buyout? He must know that if he does not deliver the goods here, he will be savaged within relatively short order. Maybe he's content to stay where he's treated like a king and the highest paid guy in his conference.

Just speculating.
 
[quote="Fred Solomon" post=341219]You all should listen to what Tom Bradley is saying. It’s not just about x and o , it’s about survival as a conference going forward and avoiding being gobbled up by man eater Power 5 conferences. All about big money , and they’re in our backyard at Barclays and MSG so we need to hire high profile ratings worthy coach.Hope there is the money for it but I’m sure Repole and other large donors understand the situation clearly. In that case a buyout of Cluess doesn’t make dollars and sense, spend your money on a bigger name![/quote]

No reasonable person disagrees with the existential threat our program and league face going forward.

Our school is short-sighted. 500k a year can be made up easily with a coach like Hurley. Give him 50% of the $ we get for playing in each round of the tournament. Let him host a camp and a weekly tv show and keep 100% of the profits. Admissions and student quality go up with success in basketball. Ticket prices and sales go up.

But the school always balks at making the investment and they look for the coaching equivalent of Jason Vargas on the Mets to fill the void. And Cragg doesn’t have the chops to make up the difference with creative means that won’t cost the school anything.
 
[quote="P Simmons" post=341234]Just throwing this out here, but is it possible that Cluess never wanted this job and hence agreed to that seemingly crazy buyout? He must know that if he does not deliver the goods here, he will be savaged within relatively short order. Maybe he's content to stay where he's treated like a king and the highest paid guy in his conference.

Just speculating.[/quote]

No. He'd come here for sure. 10 minutes from campus. Summers in long beach, not cali
 
[quote="SJUNC" post=341229][quote="otis" post=341167][quote="mattc" post=341157]
Thank God for Mike Cragg. I mean seriously, what other AD in the country could've delivered TIm Cluess to St. John's. Masterful work here.[/quote]

__________

Had Cragg had more $ to work with then he could have delivered a more attractive candidate.

Craig was merely playing the cards dealt him and following the directions provided to him by the StJ's Board of Trustees..[/quote]

Who would he deliver ? How much money does he need ?[/quote]

If we didn't have so much money tied up in buyouts and paying off previous contracts, that didn't work out, I think Cragg would have played his cards entirely different. He could have made some good offers to some desirable targets.
This entire process looks like amateurs are running it. I think Cragg is a good man and will do a fine job at SJU, but this whole process has to be concluded. If it turns out to be Cluess, he may prove the axiom,sometimes LESS is MORE.
 
Agree 1000%!You would think that Cragg would have changed that thinking with his hiring and that of the expensive consulting group.I guess we shall see soon enough with whoever gets the job.Amazing that being in the biggest media market in the world St. John’s can’t make it work!
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=341238][quote="P Simmons" post=341234]Just throwing this out here, but is it possible that Cluess never wanted this job and hence agreed to that seemingly crazy buyout? He must know that if he does not deliver the goods here, he will be savaged within relatively short order. Maybe he's content to stay where he's treated like a king and the highest paid guy in his conference.

Just speculating.[/quote]

No. He'd come here for sure. 10 minutes from campus. Summers in long beach, not cali[/quote]

You seem to know him personally, so will take your word on that. If he'd come here for sure, wonder if that buyout amount is just a rumor. It makes no sense that he'd agree to something like that unless he had no desire to leave Iona.
 
Last edited:
[quote="P Simmons" post=341242]
You seem to know him personally, so will take your word on that. If he'd come here for sure, wonder if that buyout amount is just a rumor. It makes no sense that he'd agree to something like that unless he had no desire to leave Iona.[/quote]

Unless he had no agent....
 
[quote="Amaseinyourface" post=341178][quote="mkras99" post=341174][quote="Paultzman" post=341173][quote="mattc" post=341157][quote="Paultzman" post=341156]Have to think Cluess coming down stretch is the guy. Add Borman, Rasheen Davis, another quality AC and go to work. Practical hire at this point.[/quote]

Thank God for Mike Cragg. I mean seriously, what other AD in the country could've delivered TIm Cluess to St. John's. Masterful work here.[/quote]
I get it and frankly am disappointed in the way a lot of things were handled in the last week. I am assuming Cluess, but must say this process is so cloudy that nothing would surprise me including someone we are not even thinking about.[/quote]

Mike Rhoades?[/quote]

Only 46 and close to 20 years as head coach. My pick, but I also think Cluess can be successful here.[/quote]

Agree with this, I think Mike Rhoades would do a great job here.
 
[quote="MainMan" post=341243][quote="P Simmons" post=341242]
You seem to know him personally, so will take your word on that. If he'd come here for sure, wonder if that buyout amount is just a rumor. It makes no sense that he'd agree to something like that unless he had no desire to leave Iona.[/quote]

Unless he had no agent....[/quote]

Well, if that rumored buyout amount is indeed correct, then those Iona guys are real p$icks. Typical buyout for a mid-major coach as a % of salary isn't even remotely in that ballpark. Who knew Catholic school could be so devious?
 
If we can’t take a shot at Odom or Rhoades because they are too expensive, Cluess would be a non-starter with his buy out and likely $1mm plus salary demands.

Get Shaheen Holloway on the phone pay him 3 mill over 5 years, retain GSJ, and hire all these ace recruiters that somehow where going to make Cluess an accept candidate to fill out the bench.

There I just solved out coaching and money problems.
 
[quote="mkras99" post=341164][quote="Paultzman" post=341156]Have to think Cluess coming down stretch is the guy. Add Borman, Rasheen Davis, another quality AC and go to work. Practical hire at this point.[/quote]

Maybe, but practical not to rush at this point. This hire shouldn’t be about next year or the year after. Should try to make a smart hire, with long-term vision for once. If that takes another week or two, so be it (on the plus side, might cause some posters to explode).[/quote]

Respectfully disagree about taking 1 - 2 more weeks to get a 'smart hire'?
The roster has half-imploded.
Wright & Caraher & Steere are the 'givens', having not played in a year. LJ has 1/2 foot out the door.
Heron, Williams, Roberts are rumored to be antsy; Earlington seems the safest 'keep' at this point.
IF we lost LJ, Heron, Williams & Roberts, we'd be in total re-set mode.
That's a nightmare we all recall too well to not be revisited.
We need an experienced HC with a secure deal who can spin a vision these guys will accept and 'run' with (pun intended).
By this point, I'm sure Cragg has perused over a likely 'list' of HCs who would even listen to his pitch and be amenable to strike a deal sooner than later.
For whatever reasons, Cluess is the principal candidate.
And i think he's the guy that with some solid ACs will win here.
Let's do it...Monday.
 
[quote="JohnnyFan" post=341196][quote="P Simmons" post=341193][quote="JohnnyFan" post=341191]Agree we should kick the tires on Rhoades. Also, disappointed I am not hearing anything on Odom.

I am not outraged by Cluess, but prefer one of these experienced, up-and-coming coaches in their mid 40s.[/quote]

Odom recently turned down the Virginia Tech job, for what it's worth.
Frank Martin apparently has turned down the Cincy job.[/quote]

Could make the case the SJU job is a better job than VT. The ACC is brutal and Buzz a tough act to follow. If someone like Odom makes the tournament a few times with the Johnnie's, it could get him a bigger job.

By the way, at this point, I wouldn't mind being a stepping stone for a coach. It would mean we had some success and, as a program, we desperately need some momentum.[/quote]

Ah, not Odom. He wouldn't be here more than 3 years. We would just have turned the corner and be thrust back into major uncertainty at a time when kids can leave with a phone call or is it a text to enter the transfer 'portal'? Lol.
I know we're diehard Johnnies fans on this Board and eat 'uncertainty' (and misery) for breakfast, but we also gripe loudly about it as well.
Nah, I think it's time to get a seasoned coach in here for the long term and build a winning program with him.
 
I think Cluess' agent working on a reasonable buyout. $2-2.5 mil. a non-starter for SJU with Mullin's $4mil buyout bomb.
We are in a major rebuilding cycle now and should seek a coach with an idea for his staff from the get go. This is not where any of us wanted to be but we have little influence in coach selection.
Cluess at a fair net price with a great staff with an heir apparent aboard works for me.
 
[quote="Chicago Days" post=341251][quote="JohnnyFan" post=341196] ... at this point, I wouldn't mind being a stepping stone for a coach. It would mean we had some success and, as a program, we desperately need some momentum.[/quote]

Ah, not Odom. He wouldn't be here more than 3 years. We would just have turned the corner and be thrust back into major uncertainty at a time when kids can leave with a phone call or is it a text to enter the transfer 'portal'? Lol.
I know we're diehard Johnnies fans on this Board and eat 'uncertainty' (and misery) for breakfast, but we also gripe loudly about it as well.
Nah, I think it's time to get a seasoned coach in here for the long term and build a winning program with him.[/quote]
Think Cragg would rather slit his wrists than go through this insane process again in just three years.
 
With all due respect, I think the Anti-Cluess Crowd on this Board suffer from illogical thought lapses in opposing the guy.
'Illogical thought lapses' on this Board?!?
It's a living reality here--who would 'logically' be diehard Johnny fans way past adulthood into 'old-geezer-hood?!?
Lol.
Seriously though, the Anti-Cluess spin goes like this: "He's an old coach in a weak mid-major conference who recruits 2*s and 2nd tier transfers and JUCOs. He would fail miserably here with that talent pool."
But why wouldn't he--with a long-term deal and a good Staff-- be capable of getting solid 3* kids and even an 'occasional' 4* kid to come and play more games at MSG and build a winner in NYC?
He has a solid record of not just winning but also 'developing' players.
Hasn't the lack of that been a steady and accurate gripe about the Mullin era?
At this point, Cluess makes the most sense and I'm actually confident he'll win here and restore at least 'some' luster to our brand.
Looking forward to Monday's announcement.
Join me in welcoming the guy.
 
Last edited:
[quote="oldschool Redmen" post=341016]

So 20wins every year is good enough for you huh. Happy to finish behind nova every yesr and atleast 1 -2 schools. So 4 place every year is acceptable to you?

Well you settle for that, me? I want to be king of the b.e. every 2 or 3 times in a 5 year period. I want a top 15 program most year.
And i dont care who laughs at this but yeah i want a freaking nc, and I'm saying that with a straight face. Might take 10-15yrs to do it, but if jay did it twice in. 3 yrs at villanova.
There has to be someone that can do 1NC in the next 10yrs.[/quote]

After 25 years of let downs, sanctions, hail marys and an exile to bball wasteland, I'll gladly settle for consistently good.

Actually consistently good sounds like a goddamn steak dinner right now.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=341131][quote="Class of 72" post=341050][quote="L J S A" post=341031][quote="Section9" post=340911][quote="RedStormNC" post=340905]Adam Zagoria
‏@AdamZagoria

Source: Tim Cluess’ buyout has caused things to become ‘stagnant’ with @StJohnsBBall. The buyout is in the $2-2.5M range.[/quote]

Apparently we were willing to pay at least that amount for Hurley but the same, or lower, amount has caused things to become stagnant with Cluess. Hmmm.[/quote]

The cash was coming from somewhere else for Hurley. Maybe he doesn't want his money spent on Cluess. I don't think the rejection by Hurley makes us look as bad as some posters think, but if Cluess was legitimately a top fallback option, not paying for his buyout makes us look like we're returning to the penny-pinching Norm days. President Bean Counter seemingly doesn't have the vision or the testicular fortitude to make a move that would solve the basketball problem and make a nice dent in the school's financial problems.[/quote]

This entire mess is the fault of a guy who should not have been a university President and he hired a guy who should not have been a college basketball coach. I will be disappointed if he is St. John's long term leader. Academically we are last in the Big East. He is now cementing our place in the conference basketball cellar.[/quote]

Actually, Gempeshaw, aside from not being the charismatic fundraiser that many school put way high on the list, has brought in top notch academic leaders who I was told would not have come here without his leadership. Top students are also coming here. In the past we'd get maybe 2 or 3 Chaminade grads. Due to Gempeshaw's direct advocacy, St John's was the number 3 choice of Chami grads, sending over 20 kids here last year. It's happening at other area catholic high schools also, like in the old days. He also led us out of some very bleak finances after markets tanked plus federal guarantees of student loans caused an enrollment shortfall of 500 incoming freshmen.

Think about the realities of st. John's basketball. Considering how much chris Mack and Danny Hurley got paid from Louisville and uconn, how much more would either have wanted from st. John's to come here? 500k per? 1 mm? Probably both would have turned even that much more down to choose where they went.

$ 2 mm spent on Mullin wasnt chicken feed and it's clear they were upping that to go after Bobby Hurley. What more do you expect?[/quote]
Glad to hear the academic side is looking up...thanks Beast
 
[quote="billthetruth" post=341165][quote="Paultzman" post=341156]Have to think Cluess coming down stretch is the guy. Add Borman, Rasheen Davis, another quality AC and go to work. Practical hire at this point.[/quote]

Got to think Cluess and Borman would keep LJ and Heron here which would give us fighting chance next year with sit out transfers and some grad transfer addition.[/quote]
Those are the easier ones. The test is letting recommit from Tabor, Manuel et al
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top