Cluess

[quote="Section9" post=340911][quote="RedStormNC" post=340905]Adam Zagoria
‏@AdamZagoria

Source: Tim Cluess’ buyout has caused things to become ‘stagnant’ with @StJohnsBBall. The buyout is in the $2-2.5M range.[/quote]

Apparently we were willing to pay at least that amount for Hurley but the same, or lower, amount has caused things to become stagnant with Cluess. Hmmm.[/quote]

The cash was coming from somewhere else for Hurley. Maybe he doesn't want his money spent on Cluess. I don't think the rejection by Hurley makes us look as bad as some posters think, but if Cluess was legitimately a top fallback option, not paying for his buyout makes us look like we're returning to the penny-pinching Norm days. President Bean Counter seemingly doesn't have the vision or the testicular fortitude to make a move that would solve the basketball problem and make a nice dent in the school's financial problems.
 
[quote="Chicago Days" post=341028][quote="Section3" post=341015][quote="Chicago Days" post=340986]I totally agree with the aspiration to challenge Villanova on a consistent basis.
But we've got to walk with contenders before we can run with champions.
I see a 1-4 year time frame to be on par with Providence, Hall, Xavier, Marquette, Creighton and 4+ years to be able to challenge Nova consistently.
My worry about picking a young, hungry coach to lead that challenge is that 'he' would have higher aspirations of his own over that span and leave us high and dry.
Would Cluess succeed at the high major level at St. John's?
Don't know.
But I do know he'd bust his gut to do that and be here long term.
Better than good enough for me versus playing in the shark pool world of high major coaches.[/quote]
1-4 years to run with PC, X et al? We were there! Now we are OK with taking a huge step back and take 4 years to get where we were at end of 2019?

Hate to say it. We were better off trading a commitment to changes for an extension. I personally overestimated the prospective candidates and underestimated the defections.[/quote

We were ‘there’ in lightening bug fashion. Ponds was out the door regardless, Mack and Keita and Trimble and Manuel gone when Matt left. Poof. Gone.
Our HC and Staff was not fully committed and basically, dysfunctional.
The challenge is to build a program that achieves consistent success.
That’s done with hard work and includes recruiting, x&o strategy, player development, roster construction, and having a Staff functioning on all cylinders to accomplish those goals.
And that is best done with a coach not looking to jump at the first ‘golden’ goose that he sees.
Cluess seems our best chance to achieve that imo.[/quote]
CD...we were absolutely not losing most of those guys had Mullin stayed...we needed a replacement who would incent these kids to stay...anything else is a do over and is not worth it.

If someone had said, we’re moving on from Mullin, many would have said “OK” or “Hell Yes”, very few, if any, would have done so had they been told we would lose 4-5 players and replace him with Tim Cluess.
 
Last edited:
[quote="L J S A" post=341031][quote="Section9" post=340911][quote="RedStormNC" post=340905]Adam Zagoria
‏@AdamZagoria

Source: Tim Cluess’ buyout has caused things to become ‘stagnant’ with @StJohnsBBall. The buyout is in the $2-2.5M range.[/quote]

Apparently we were willing to pay at least that amount for Hurley but the same, or lower, amount has caused things to become stagnant with Cluess. Hmmm.[/quote]

The cash was coming from somewhere else for Hurley. Maybe he doesn't want his money spent on Cluess. I don't think the rejection by Hurley makes us look as bad as some posters think, but if Cluess was legitimately a top fallback option, not paying for his buyout makes us look like we're returning to the penny-pinching Norm days. President Bean Counter seemingly doesn't have the vision or the testicular fortitude to make a move that would solve the basketball problem and make a nice dent in the school's financial problems.[/quote]

We have a winner!!!!! Ding, Ding, Ding. There is money available. Not everyone on the same page... We have some higher ups who see things in a very strange way..
 
[quote="Section3" post=341037][quote="Chicago Days" post=341028][quote="Section3" post=341015][quote="Chicago Days" post=340986]I totally agree with the aspiration to challenge Villanova on a consistent basis.
But we've got to walk with contenders before we can run with champions.
I see a 1-4 year time frame to be on par with Providence, Hall, Xavier, Marquette, Creighton and 4+ years to be able to challenge Nova consistently.
My worry about picking a young, hungry coach to lead that challenge is that 'he' would have higher aspirations of his own over that span and leave us high and dry.
Would Cluess succeed at the high major level at St. John's?
Don't know.
But I do know he'd bust his gut to do that and be here long term.
Better than good enough for me versus playing in the shark pool world of high major coaches.[/quote]
1-4 years to run with PC, X et al? We were there! Now we are OK with taking a huge step back and take 4 years to get where we were at end of 2019?

Hate to say it. We were better off trading a commitment to changes for an extension. I personally overestimated the prospective candidates and underestimated the defections.[/quote

We were ‘there’ in lightening bug fashion. Ponds was out the door regardless, Mack and Keita and Trimble and Manuel gone when Matt left. Poof. Gone.
Our HC and Staff was not fully committed and basically, dysfunctional.
The challenge is to build a program that achieves consistent success.
That’s done with hard work and includes recruiting, x&o strategy, player development, roster construction, and having a Staff functioning on all cylinders to accomplish those goals.
And that is best done with a coach not looking to jump at the first ‘golden’ goose that he sees.
Cluess seems our best chance to achieve that imo.[/quote]
CD...we were absolutely not losing most of those guys had a Mullin stayed...we needed a replacement who would incent these kids to stay...anything else is a do over and is not worth it.

If someone had said, we’re moving on from Mullin, many would have said “OK” or “Hell Yes”, very few, if any, would have done so had they been told we would lose 4-5 players and replace him with Tim Cluess.[/quote]

I don't know about that. Next season was going to be bad whether Mullin stayed or not. It is just a matter of how bad. I was expecting us to be close to a last place team with the lack of coaching and a much weaker roster. If Mullin had stayed it probably would have been at least two bad years, maybe more if he were extended. There was no player development in four years and no reason to think that would change. At least with a new coach there may be a chance to build the program back up. I believe we will be better off in the long run no matter who is named the new coach.
 
I was a huge Chris supporter and saw it wasn't working so have no problem with the decision to make a change, what I am disappointed in to date is the execution of that change. Hoping for the best.
 
[quote="L J S A" post=341031][quote="Section9" post=340911][quote="RedStormNC" post=340905]Adam Zagoria
‏@AdamZagoria

Source: Tim Cluess’ buyout has caused things to become ‘stagnant’ with @StJohnsBBall. The buyout is in the $2-2.5M range.[/quote]

Apparently we were willing to pay at least that amount for Hurley but the same, or lower, amount has caused things to become stagnant with Cluess. Hmmm.[/quote]

The cash was coming from somewhere else for Hurley. Maybe he doesn't want his money spent on Cluess. I don't think the rejection by Hurley makes us look as bad as some posters think, but if Cluess was legitimately a top fallback option, not paying for his buyout makes us look like we're returning to the penny-pinching Norm days. President Bean Counter seemingly doesn't have the vision or the testicular fortitude to make a move that would solve the basketball problem and make a nice dent in the school's financial problems.[/quote]

This entire mess is the fault of a guy who should not have been a university President and he hired a guy who should not have been a college basketball coach. I will be disappointed if he is St. John's long term leader. Academically we are last in the Big East. He is now cementing our place in the conference basketball cellar.
 
[quote="tom bradley" post=341040][quote="L J S A" post=341031][quote="Section9" post=340911][quote="RedStormNC" post=340905]Adam Zagoria
‏@AdamZagoria

Source: Tim Cluess’ buyout has caused things to become ‘stagnant’ with @StJohnsBBall. The buyout is in the $2-2.5M range.[/quote]

Apparently we were willing to pay at least that amount for Hurley but the same, or lower, amount has caused things to become stagnant with Cluess. Hmmm.[/quote]

The cash was coming from somewhere else for Hurley. Maybe he doesn't want his money spent on Cluess. I don't think the rejection by Hurley makes us look as bad as some posters think, but if Cluess was legitimately a top fallback option, not paying for his buyout makes us look like we're returning to the penny-pinching Norm days. President Bean Counter seemingly doesn't have the vision or the testicular fortitude to make a move that would solve the basketball problem and make a nice dent in the school's financial problems.[/quote]

We have a winner!!!!! Ding, Ding, Ding. There is money available. Not everyone on the same page... We have some higher ups who see things in a very strange way..[/quote]

UCLA gets all the boosters on the same page and then go after the coach only to be rejected

We on the other hand can't get anyone on the same page and we're all over the map
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=341050][quote="L J S A" post=341031][quote="Section9" post=340911][quote="RedStormNC" post=340905]Adam Zagoria
‏@AdamZagoria

Source: Tim Cluess’ buyout has caused things to become ‘stagnant’ with @StJohnsBBall. The buyout is in the $2-2.5M range.[/quote]

Apparently we were willing to pay at least that amount for Hurley but the same, or lower, amount has caused things to become stagnant with Cluess. Hmmm.[/quote]

The cash was coming from somewhere else for Hurley. Maybe he doesn't want his money spent on Cluess. I don't think the rejection by Hurley makes us look as bad as some posters think, but if Cluess was legitimately a top fallback option, not paying for his buyout makes us look like we're returning to the penny-pinching Norm days. President Bean Counter seemingly doesn't have the vision or the testicular fortitude to make a move that would solve the basketball problem and make a nice dent in the school's financial problems.[/quote]

This entire mess is the fault of a guy who should not have been a university President and he hired a guy who should not have been a college basketball coach. I will be disappointed if he is St. John's long term leader. Academically we are last in the Big East. He is now cementing our place in the conference basketball cellar.[/quote]

Actually, Gempeshaw, aside from not being the charismatic fundraiser that many school put way high on the list, has brought in top notch academic leaders who I was told would not have come here without his leadership. Top students are also coming here. In the past we'd get maybe 2 or 3 Chaminade grads. Due to Gempeshaw's direct advocacy, St John's was the number 3 choice of Chami grads, sending over 20 kids here last year. It's happening at other area catholic high schools also, like in the old days. He also led us out of some very bleak finances after markets tanked plus federal guarantees of student loans caused an enrollment shortfall of 500 incoming freshmen.

Think about the realities of st. John's basketball. Considering how much chris Mack and Danny Hurley got paid from Louisville and uconn, how much more would either have wanted from st. John's to come here? 500k per? 1 mm? Probably both would have turned even that much more down to choose where they went.

$ 2 mm spent on Mullin wasnt chicken feed and it's clear they were upping that to go after Bobby Hurley. What more do you expect?
 
[quote="Moose" post=341065][quote="tom bradley" post=341040][quote="L J S A" post=341031][quote="Section9" post=340911][quote="RedStormNC" post=340905]Adam Zagoria
‏@AdamZagoria

Source: Tim Cluess’ buyout has caused things to become ‘stagnant’ with @StJohnsBBall. The buyout is in the $2-2.5M range.[/quote]

Apparently we were willing to pay at least that amount for Hurley but the same, or lower, amount has caused things to become stagnant with Cluess. Hmmm.[/quote]

The cash was coming from somewhere else for Hurley. Maybe he doesn't want his money spent on Cluess. I don't think the rejection by Hurley makes us look as bad as some posters think, but if Cluess was legitimately a top fallback option, not paying for his buyout makes us look like we're returning to the penny-pinching Norm days. President Bean Counter seemingly doesn't have the vision or the testicular fortitude to make a move that would solve the basketball problem and make a nice dent in the school's financial problems.[/quote]

We have a winner!!!!! Ding, Ding, Ding. There is money available. Not everyone on the same page... We have some higher ups who see things in a very strange way..[/quote]

UCLA gets all the boosters on the same page and then go after the coach only to be rejected

We on the other hand can't get anyone on the same page and we're all over the map[/quote]

UCLA is much more unified in their cries to fire a coach than hire one. Kind of like us. What's their endowment like? Overall sports revenue?
 
Not counting the residual benefits of prestige and marketing, does the athletic department break even?

Beast, do you know?
 
[quote="Desco80" post=341137]Not counting the residual benefits of prestige and marketing, does the athletic department break even?

Beast, do you know?[/quote]

Well, men's basketball is the only revenue producing sport and that has to help support all mens and women sports. Without checking I'm going to guess they need athletic giving to make up a deficit.

Two great guys, nick vendikos and Paul sclafani head up that effort. Believe it or not the athletic dept hit the phones this week to ask donors their opinions on the Mullin departure. Not an easy task since all fans love to chat and it's not a 2 minute call.
 
Have to think Cluess coming down stretch is the guy. Add Borman, Rasheen Davis, another quality AC and go to work. Practical hire at this point.
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=341156]Have to think Cluess coming down stretch is the guy. Add Borman, Rasheen Davis, another quality AC and go to work. Practical hire at this point.[/quote]

Thank God for Mike Cragg. I mean seriously, what other AD in the country could've delivered TIm Cluess to St. John's. Masterful work here.
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=341156]Have to think Cluess coming down stretch is the guy. Add Borman, Rasheen Davis, another quality AC and go to work. Practical hire at this point.[/quote]

I think it’s the only practical hire at this point. Skepticism will certainly come to the forefront but he’s the only guy out there ready to step in and get this rolling again. Add two excellent recruiters and honestly, keep St. Jean on board as a top assistant if at all possible. I’d actually like to see St. Jean stay and be groomed for a future here. Have a gut feeling he’s a bright bulb in a dark room at SJU. He’s a hustler. He needs more experience out recruiting, but I like the kid. If at all possible, I’d like to keep GSJ around. Maybe he’s our head coach some day.
 
Last edited:
Have to say the increasing amount of people who post on here without second thought or even first thought for that matter makes it very difficult to read.
 
[quote="mattc" post=341157][quote="Paultzman" post=341156]Have to think Cluess coming down stretch is the guy. Add Borman, Rasheen Davis, another quality AC and go to work. Practical hire at this point.[/quote]



Thank God for Mike Cragg. I mean seriously, what other AD in the country could've delivered TIm Cluess to St. John's. Masterful work here.[/quote]

I respect your opinion but at same time will you give praise to Cluess when he wins here consistently like he had done his whole life and at every level?
 
Last edited:
[quote="Paultzman" post=341156]Have to think Cluess coming down stretch is the guy. Add Borman, Rasheen Davis, another quality AC and go to work. Practical hire at this point.[/quote]
_________

Think Monday.
 
Last edited:
[quote="billthetruth" post=341161][quote="mattc" post=341157][quote="Paultzman" post=341156]Have to think Cluess coming down stretch is the guy. Add Borman, Rasheen Davis, another quality AC and go to work. Practical hire at this point.[/quote]



Thank God for Mike Cragg. I mean seriously, what other AD in the country could've delivered TIm Cluess to St. John's. Masterful work here.[/quote]

I respect your opinion but at same time will you give praise to Cluess when he wins here consistently like he had done his whole life and at every level?[/quote]

100 percent. And if you go through this thread and re-read my posts (not that I would expect to you), my criticism has been the same throughout. I'm more upset with the process and how this all played out than I am the end result. I think Cluess could work out just fine, but the way this was conducted is laughable in my opinion.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top