Cluess
- Thread starter dalydoseofhoops
- Start date
[quote="Beast of the East" post=340941][quote="Adam" post=340938]Mullin's $4 million "buyout" (or lack thereof) is definitely screwing over the school. Without it we may have gotten Hurley. That horrible contract could set us back a full decade (two coaching hires).
Hopefully the school learns how to write up a contract this time. Mullin never should have been paid that much annually in the first place, let alone lacking a way for us to exit without paying 100%.[/quote]
I don't think anyone in a major conference would not demand 6 years guaranteed $$, 5 at the least. Don't blame him for his contract, and tbh, he appeared to be interest in fulfilling it even after Matt left. The school appears to have pulled the plug, and in doing so are left with the obligation. However, as always, the devil is in the details, and we rarely know enough to waste all these keystrokes.[/quote]
I don't know all the details, but the story is that Mullin asked for an extension, wasn't given one, and then "stepped down". I don't understand why we still owe him the rest of his contract if he "stepped down". He's getting paid two years to do absolutely nothing.
Personally if I were him I would have struck a friendly exit deal with the school, as he clearly does not deserve that $4 million. Then again, this is what happens when you hire somebody you can't fire who supposedly never donated to the school. St. John's would probably be making a case against paying him right now if his name wasn't Chris Mullin, but since it is he'll likely escape with all $4 million.
Hopefully the school learns how to write up a contract this time. Mullin never should have been paid that much annually in the first place, let alone lacking a way for us to exit without paying 100%.[/quote]
I don't think anyone in a major conference would not demand 6 years guaranteed $$, 5 at the least. Don't blame him for his contract, and tbh, he appeared to be interest in fulfilling it even after Matt left. The school appears to have pulled the plug, and in doing so are left with the obligation. However, as always, the devil is in the details, and we rarely know enough to waste all these keystrokes.[/quote]
I don't know all the details, but the story is that Mullin asked for an extension, wasn't given one, and then "stepped down". I don't understand why we still owe him the rest of his contract if he "stepped down". He's getting paid two years to do absolutely nothing.
Personally if I were him I would have struck a friendly exit deal with the school, as he clearly does not deserve that $4 million. Then again, this is what happens when you hire somebody you can't fire who supposedly never donated to the school. St. John's would probably be making a case against paying him right now if his name wasn't Chris Mullin, but since it is he'll likely escape with all $4 million.
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ronm
Well-known member
[quote="Beast of the East" post=340942][quote="MCNPA" post=340940][quote="Adam" post=340938]Mullin's $4 million "buyout" (or lack thereof) is definitely screwing over the school. Without it we may have gotten Hurley. That horrible contract could set us back a full decade (two coaching hires).
Hopefully the school learns how to write up a contract this time. Mullin never should have been paid that much annually in the first place, let alone not having a way for us to exit.[/quote]
Same guys that wrote up Slice’s contract I assume? Maybe Mullin should be held responsible for that contract cost.[/quote]
A thought occurred. Since his adversaries are now gone (Matt and Chris), wouldn't it be really funny if a new HC put Slice on his staff to fulfill the final 2 years of his contract since he is still getting paid?[/quote]
Not happening. He was bought out. He would have to be paid all over again. Speaking of which I thought ACs were paid year to year. I guess Slice's contract is yet another Mullin legacy.
Hopefully the school learns how to write up a contract this time. Mullin never should have been paid that much annually in the first place, let alone not having a way for us to exit.[/quote]
Same guys that wrote up Slice’s contract I assume? Maybe Mullin should be held responsible for that contract cost.[/quote]
A thought occurred. Since his adversaries are now gone (Matt and Chris), wouldn't it be really funny if a new HC put Slice on his staff to fulfill the final 2 years of his contract since he is still getting paid?[/quote]
Not happening. He was bought out. He would have to be paid all over again. Speaking of which I thought ACs were paid year to year. I guess Slice's contract is yet another Mullin legacy.
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[quote="Adam" post=340938]Mullin's $4 million "buyout" (or lack thereof) is definitely screwing over the school. Without it we may have gotten Hurley. That horrible contract could set us back a full decade (two coaching hires).
Hopefully the school learns how to write up a contract this time. Mullin never should have been paid that much annually in the first place, let alone lacking a way for us to exit without paying 100%.[/quote]
If Mullin truly walked away on his own volition, then he's not getting the $4 million. Unless he can show some kind of constructive dismissal. I'm no lawyer, but perhaps the school owes him less than we think and therefore has more to shell out on the next coach. One of the unknowns.
Hopefully the school learns how to write up a contract this time. Mullin never should have been paid that much annually in the first place, let alone lacking a way for us to exit without paying 100%.[/quote]
If Mullin truly walked away on his own volition, then he's not getting the $4 million. Unless he can show some kind of constructive dismissal. I'm no lawyer, but perhaps the school owes him less than we think and therefore has more to shell out on the next coach. One of the unknowns.
redfan259999888
Active member
[quote="Catman" post=340588]Well said Monte! I agree totally! Let’s all get behind him with all the support we can give him![/quote]
I can't someone that I feel that in 5 or 6 years, we'll be looking for another coach.
Hire a proven coach, or an ex college coach that's coaching h.s. now that was proving in college.
.
If Cluess had some upsets in the ncaa tourny with Iona, I might be all in with him, just not gonna set myself up for another disappointment. Did we even contact Matta, maybe he's the mystery coach???
I can't someone that I feel that in 5 or 6 years, we'll be looking for another coach.
Hire a proven coach, or an ex college coach that's coaching h.s. now that was proving in college.
.
If Cluess had some upsets in the ncaa tourny with Iona, I might be all in with him, just not gonna set myself up for another disappointment. Did we even contact Matta, maybe he's the mystery coach???
[quote="ron " post=340952]If the $2.5 million buyout for Cluess is accurate, I think that would take him out of contention.[/quote]
If he is making around $500K at Iona (think I saw that number), then maybe we could offer him $800K-1M annually with some incentives. $800K is pretty pathetic for a Big East school, but maybe he'd still take it knowing that he signed a very unfriendly deal with Iona and would be getting a pay bump. This would not have worked for Hurley but it might for Cluess.
Basically, try to negotiate a lower annual salary based on needing to pay his buyout. Then in a couple years if he's successful sign him to a much nicer deal.
If he is making around $500K at Iona (think I saw that number), then maybe we could offer him $800K-1M annually with some incentives. $800K is pretty pathetic for a Big East school, but maybe he'd still take it knowing that he signed a very unfriendly deal with Iona and would be getting a pay bump. This would not have worked for Hurley but it might for Cluess.
Basically, try to negotiate a lower annual salary based on needing to pay his buyout. Then in a couple years if he's successful sign him to a much nicer deal.
beast of the east
Active member
[quote="Adam" post=340947][quote="Beast of the East" post=340941][quote="Adam" post=340938]Mullin's $4 million "buyout" (or lack thereof) is definitely screwing over the school. Without it we may have gotten Hurley. That horrible contract could set us back a full decade (two coaching hires).
Hopefully the school learns how to write up a contract this time. Mullin never should have been paid that much annually in the first place, let alone lacking a way for us to exit without paying 100%.[/quote]
I don't think anyone in a major conference would not demand 6 years guaranteed $$, 5 at the least. Don't blame him for his contract, and tbh, he appeared to be interest in fulfilling it even after Matt left. The school appears to have pulled the plug, and in doing so are left with the obligation. However, as always, the devil is in the details, and we rarely know enough to waste all these keystrokes.[/quote]
I don't know all the details, but the story is that Mullin asked for an extension, wasn't given one, and then "stepped down". I don't understand why we still owe him the rest of his contract if he "stepped down". He's getting paid two years to do absolutely nothing.
Personally if I were him I would have struck a friendly exit deal with the school, as he clearly does not deserve that $4 million. Then again, this is what happens when you hire somebody you can't fire who supposedly never donated to the school. St. John's would probably be making a case against paying him right now if his name wasn't Chris Mullin, but since it is he'll likely escape with all $4 million.[/quote]
I thought something along those lines about his resignation letter. It sounds like he voluntarily resigned, but he could have been handed termination notice and was allowed to save face by publicly resigning. If just a voluntary resignation, typically you aren;'t guaranteed anything, but often there can be all sorts of clauses since a contract is simply an agreement between two parties that complies with state law. As far as never donating to the school, that may or may not be true but was hearsay that could have come out of the AD, I don't know. What I was told recently is often contracts like these for high profile employees like a HC include donations to the school that are subtracted from salary as a payroll deduction built into the contract to make a public good showing.
Hopefully the school learns how to write up a contract this time. Mullin never should have been paid that much annually in the first place, let alone lacking a way for us to exit without paying 100%.[/quote]
I don't think anyone in a major conference would not demand 6 years guaranteed $$, 5 at the least. Don't blame him for his contract, and tbh, he appeared to be interest in fulfilling it even after Matt left. The school appears to have pulled the plug, and in doing so are left with the obligation. However, as always, the devil is in the details, and we rarely know enough to waste all these keystrokes.[/quote]
I don't know all the details, but the story is that Mullin asked for an extension, wasn't given one, and then "stepped down". I don't understand why we still owe him the rest of his contract if he "stepped down". He's getting paid two years to do absolutely nothing.
Personally if I were him I would have struck a friendly exit deal with the school, as he clearly does not deserve that $4 million. Then again, this is what happens when you hire somebody you can't fire who supposedly never donated to the school. St. John's would probably be making a case against paying him right now if his name wasn't Chris Mullin, but since it is he'll likely escape with all $4 million.[/quote]
I thought something along those lines about his resignation letter. It sounds like he voluntarily resigned, but he could have been handed termination notice and was allowed to save face by publicly resigning. If just a voluntary resignation, typically you aren;'t guaranteed anything, but often there can be all sorts of clauses since a contract is simply an agreement between two parties that complies with state law. As far as never donating to the school, that may or may not be true but was hearsay that could have come out of the AD, I don't know. What I was told recently is often contracts like these for high profile employees like a HC include donations to the school that are subtracted from salary as a payroll deduction built into the contract to make a public good showing.
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redfan259999888
Active member
[quote="Amaseinyourface" post=340681]Just playing devils advocate but what kind of players would you expect cluess to recruit to Iona? How bout the ones that are good enough to win the conference on a consistent basis.
And if your stance is that he’s always had the best players, well shit we’re gonna hold that against him too?[/quote]
He's a proven coach in a freaking MID MAJOR CONF. I hope we don't see how he does in a HIGH MAJOR CONF.
And if your stance is that he’s always had the best players, well shit we’re gonna hold that against him too?[/quote]
He's a proven coach in a freaking MID MAJOR CONF. I hope we don't see how he does in a HIGH MAJOR CONF.
Mullin was forced out. He didn’t resign, if he did , he won’t be owed anything. The step down part was for optics. That said Craig was aware of the buyout. If the school couldn’t afford it, should have just kept Mullin and reworked the assistants. Hopefully Repole loves the BB program.
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[quote="oldschool Redmen" post=340961][quote="Amaseinyourface" post=340681]Just playing devils advocate but what kind of players would you expect cluess to recruit to Iona? How bout the ones that are good enough to win the conference on a consistent basis.
And if your stance is that he’s always had the best players, well shit we’re gonna hold that against him too?[/quote]
He's a proven coach in a freaking MID MAJOR CONF. I hope we don't see how he does in a HIGH MAJOR CONF.[/quote]
Right, winning in a lesser conferences should deter us from looking into him.
And if your stance is that he’s always had the best players, well shit we’re gonna hold that against him too?[/quote]
He's a proven coach in a freaking MID MAJOR CONF. I hope we don't see how he does in a HIGH MAJOR CONF.[/quote]
Right, winning in a lesser conferences should deter us from looking into him.
SeattleJohnny
Well-known member
I want Cluess.
Bummed that his buy out is that insane.
With no Cluess I'm wheels up on Odom, has all the makings of a rising star. Good Coach, Good Family, Won everywhere he has been, Young.
Bummed that his buy out is that insane.
With no Cluess I'm wheels up on Odom, has all the makings of a rising star. Good Coach, Good Family, Won everywhere he has been, Young.
beast of the east
Active member
[quote="richard A Steinfeld" post=340965]Mullin was forced out. He didn’t resign, if he did , he won’t be owed anything. The step down part was for optics.[/quote]
When I read his resignation letter, it was totally in synch with what I was told about a month or so before Rod died, that Chris was contemplating stepping away to take care of his very ill brother. Not surprisingly if you know him Frank Gilroy quit a Wall Street job to take care of his terminally ill brother, who hung on for more than a year to my recollection.
That his resignation letter raised something that I heard as a rumor 6 weeks or so prior, validates that Chris had given serious thought to quitting to be with his brother. My guess though is that his brother's passing caused him to consider a return, perhaps energizing his focus for the next 4 years.
Chris is gone, and whatever his contract says, the university should honor. That's why you execute these things. No one should be expected to give back anything. The school wanted him badly, and committed to full payout for 6 years of work. They could of course pursue termination with cause, but likely not much basis since those clauses are often very specific.
When I read his resignation letter, it was totally in synch with what I was told about a month or so before Rod died, that Chris was contemplating stepping away to take care of his very ill brother. Not surprisingly if you know him Frank Gilroy quit a Wall Street job to take care of his terminally ill brother, who hung on for more than a year to my recollection.
That his resignation letter raised something that I heard as a rumor 6 weeks or so prior, validates that Chris had given serious thought to quitting to be with his brother. My guess though is that his brother's passing caused him to consider a return, perhaps energizing his focus for the next 4 years.
Chris is gone, and whatever his contract says, the university should honor. That's why you execute these things. No one should be expected to give back anything. The school wanted him badly, and committed to full payout for 6 years of work. They could of course pursue termination with cause, but likely not much basis since those clauses are often very specific.
redfan259999888
Active member
[quote="Amaseinyourface" post=340970][quote="oldschool Redmen" post=340961][quote="Amaseinyourface" post=340681]Just playing devils advocate but what kind of players would you expect cluess to recruit to Iona? How bout the ones that are good enough to win the conference on a consistent basis.
And if your stance is that he’s always had the best players, well shit we’re gonna hold that against him too?[/quote]
He's a proven coach in a freaking MID MAJOR CONF. I hope we don't see how he does in a HIGH MAJOR CONF.[/quote]
Right, winning in a lesser conferences should deter us from looking into him.[/quote]
0-6 in the ncaa tourny. No defense.
The 2 teams in the NC game was what? Great defensive teams.
I wouldn't get excited with Odom or moses but I also wouldn't bitch about them.
I seen some iona games and I'm turned off by his teams.
Just how I feel.
And if your stance is that he’s always had the best players, well shit we’re gonna hold that against him too?[/quote]
He's a proven coach in a freaking MID MAJOR CONF. I hope we don't see how he does in a HIGH MAJOR CONF.[/quote]
Right, winning in a lesser conferences should deter us from looking into him.[/quote]
0-6 in the ncaa tourny. No defense.
The 2 teams in the NC game was what? Great defensive teams.
I wouldn't get excited with Odom or moses but I also wouldn't bitch about them.
I seen some iona games and I'm turned off by his teams.
Just how I feel.
[quote="oldschool Redmen" post=340974][quote="Amaseinyourface" post=340970][quote="oldschool Redmen" post=340961][quote="Amaseinyourface" post=340681]Just playing devils advocate but what kind of players would you expect cluess to recruit to Iona? How bout the ones that are good enough to win the conference on a consistent basis.
And if your stance is that he’s always had the best players, well shit we’re gonna hold that against him too?[/quote]
He's a proven coach in a freaking MID MAJOR CONF. I hope we don't see how he does in a HIGH MAJOR CONF.[/quote]
Right, winning in a lesser conferences should deter us from looking into him.[/quote]
0-6 in the ncaa tourny. No defense.
The 2 teams in the NC game was what? Great defensive teams.
I wouldn't get excited with Odom or moses but I also wouldn't bitch about them.
I seen some iona games and I'm turned off by his teams.
Just how I feel.[/quote]
Much more fair than “he coaches in a freaking midmajor conference!!”
0-6 in he NCAAT tournament doesn’t scare me that much. Iona is never expected to win a tourney game. How bout his record in conference tourney games?
And if your stance is that he’s always had the best players, well shit we’re gonna hold that against him too?[/quote]
He's a proven coach in a freaking MID MAJOR CONF. I hope we don't see how he does in a HIGH MAJOR CONF.[/quote]
Right, winning in a lesser conferences should deter us from looking into him.[/quote]
0-6 in the ncaa tourny. No defense.
The 2 teams in the NC game was what? Great defensive teams.
I wouldn't get excited with Odom or moses but I also wouldn't bitch about them.
I seen some iona games and I'm turned off by his teams.
Just how I feel.[/quote]
Much more fair than “he coaches in a freaking midmajor conference!!”
0-6 in he NCAAT tournament doesn’t scare me that much. Iona is never expected to win a tourney game. How bout his record in conference tourney games?
[quote="Beast of the East" post=340973][quote="richard A Steinfeld" post=340965]Mullin was forced out. He didn’t resign, if he did , he won’t be owed anything. The step down part was for optics.[/quote]
When I read his resignation letter, it was totally in synch with what I was told about a month or so before Rod died, that Chris was contemplating stepping away to take care of his very ill brother. Not surprisingly if you know him Frank Gilroy quit a Wall Street job to take care of his terminally ill brother, who hung on for more than a year to my recollection.
That his resignation letter raised something that I heard as a rumor 6 weeks or so prior, validates that Chris had given serious thought to quitting to be with his brother. My guess though is that his brother's passing caused him to consider a return, perhaps energizing his focus for the next 4 years.
Chris is gone, and whatever his contract says, the university should honor. That's why you execute these things. No one should be expected to give back anything. The school wanted him badly, and committed to full payout for 6 years of work. They could of course pursue termination with cause, but likely not much basis since those clauses are often very specific.[/quote] The school has to be run by a bunch of morons if they are going to pay him $4000000 if he wanted to quit. But, We are St. Johns
When I read his resignation letter, it was totally in synch with what I was told about a month or so before Rod died, that Chris was contemplating stepping away to take care of his very ill brother. Not surprisingly if you know him Frank Gilroy quit a Wall Street job to take care of his terminally ill brother, who hung on for more than a year to my recollection.
That his resignation letter raised something that I heard as a rumor 6 weeks or so prior, validates that Chris had given serious thought to quitting to be with his brother. My guess though is that his brother's passing caused him to consider a return, perhaps energizing his focus for the next 4 years.
Chris is gone, and whatever his contract says, the university should honor. That's why you execute these things. No one should be expected to give back anything. The school wanted him badly, and committed to full payout for 6 years of work. They could of course pursue termination with cause, but likely not much basis since those clauses are often very specific.[/quote] The school has to be run by a bunch of morons if they are going to pay him $4000000 if he wanted to quit. But, We are St. Johns
redfan259999888
Active member
[quote="Amaseinyourface" post=340976][quote="oldschool Redmen" post=340974][quote="Amaseinyourface" post=340970][quote="oldschool Redmen" post=340961][quote="Amaseinyourface" post=340681]Just playing devils advocate but what kind of players would you expect cluess to recruit to Iona? How bout the ones that are good enough to win the conference on a consistent basis.
And if your stance is that he’s always had the best players, well shit we’re gonna hold that against him too?[/quote]
He's a proven coach in a freaking MID MAJOR CONF. I hope we don't see how he does in a HIGH MAJOR CONF.[/quote]
Right, winning in a lesser conferences should deter us from looking into him.[/quote]
0-6 in the ncaa tourny. No defense.
The 2 teams in the NC game was what? Great defensive teams.
I wouldn't get excited with Odom or moses but I also wouldn't bitch about them.
I seen some iona games and I'm turned off by his teams.
Just how I feel.[/quote]
Much more fair than “he coaches in a freaking midmajor conference!!”
0-6 in he NCAAT tournament doesn’t scare me that much. Iona is never expected to win a tourney game. How bout his record in conference tourney games?[/quote]
Other little school get some big upsets in the ncaat, Cluess hasn't once in 6 tries.
Great record vs. MAAC teams, you really think he'd have the same success in the B.E. tournament?
NEGATIVE.
And if your stance is that he’s always had the best players, well shit we’re gonna hold that against him too?[/quote]
He's a proven coach in a freaking MID MAJOR CONF. I hope we don't see how he does in a HIGH MAJOR CONF.[/quote]
Right, winning in a lesser conferences should deter us from looking into him.[/quote]
0-6 in the ncaa tourny. No defense.
The 2 teams in the NC game was what? Great defensive teams.
I wouldn't get excited with Odom or moses but I also wouldn't bitch about them.
I seen some iona games and I'm turned off by his teams.
Just how I feel.[/quote]
Much more fair than “he coaches in a freaking midmajor conference!!”
0-6 in he NCAAT tournament doesn’t scare me that much. Iona is never expected to win a tourney game. How bout his record in conference tourney games?[/quote]
Other little school get some big upsets in the ncaat, Cluess hasn't once in 6 tries.
Great record vs. MAAC teams, you really think he'd have the same success in the B.E. tournament?
NEGATIVE.
[quote="SeattleJohnny" post=340972]I want Cluess.
Bummed that his buy out is that insane.
With no Cluess I'm wheels up on Odom, has all the makings of a rising star. Good Coach, Good Family, Won everywhere he has been, Young.[/quote]
Except Odom seems 1 phone call away from the ACC in 1-2 years, if that, so why bother?
That would set back the program sooner than later for a potential total restart and is too risky.
This program needs stability and consistency more than anything else, defined as at least 5 years of improved results and a few dances.
I have no clue who else Cragg is looking at following sticker-shock over Cluess's buyout but find a guy who'd be here at least 5 years and be productive or sign Cluess by Monday.
Scheyer on steroids (with Borman & Hsu) might work.
Is Rhoades a worthy shot, Brey?
I don't get the anti-Cluess sentiment on this Board, but whatever.
We need stability and consistency by Monday.
That's all I know.
Bummed that his buy out is that insane.
With no Cluess I'm wheels up on Odom, has all the makings of a rising star. Good Coach, Good Family, Won everywhere he has been, Young.[/quote]
Except Odom seems 1 phone call away from the ACC in 1-2 years, if that, so why bother?
That would set back the program sooner than later for a potential total restart and is too risky.
This program needs stability and consistency more than anything else, defined as at least 5 years of improved results and a few dances.
I have no clue who else Cragg is looking at following sticker-shock over Cluess's buyout but find a guy who'd be here at least 5 years and be productive or sign Cluess by Monday.
Scheyer on steroids (with Borman & Hsu) might work.
Is Rhoades a worthy shot, Brey?
I don't get the anti-Cluess sentiment on this Board, but whatever.
We need stability and consistency by Monday.
That's all I know.
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