Cluess

[quote="MJDinkins" post=340823]I'm not at all concerned what conference Cluess is coming from. Tons of quality coaches have come from smaller conferences.

I'm just not sold on his style of play and how it'll translate here without the necessary talent. As, I stated a couple of weeks ago.... He won't have the same advantages at St. John's as he had at Iona when it comes to particular personnel at his disposal. If he's adept at adapting, then he might be capable of working out here. Though the term "working out" is debatable. My "working out" is challenging Villanova on a routine basis. Some other folks "working out" may be along the lines of Providence and Seton Hall.[/quote]
Agree on all points...

It’s style of play and willingness to adapt at age 60 after all these years of coaching. If he is willing to, he can work.

Jury is still out on whether he will be able to recruit. His first real test will come with a Tabor. I don’t count LJ as he faces having to sit out.

Also agree on the barometer for success. Nova...not SH or Providence.
 
[quote="oldschool Redmen" post=340974][quote="Amaseinyourface" post=340970][quote="oldschool Redmen" post=340961][quote="Amaseinyourface" post=340681]Just playing devils advocate but what kind of players would you expect cluess to recruit to Iona? How bout the ones that are good enough to win the conference on a consistent basis.

And if your stance is that he’s always had the best players, well shit we’re gonna hold that against him too?[/quote]

He's a proven coach in a freaking MID MAJOR CONF. I hope we don't see how he does in a HIGH MAJOR CONF.[/quote]

Right, winning in a lesser conferences should deter us from looking into him.[/quote]

0-6 in the ncaa tourny. No defense.
The 2 teams in the NC game was what? Great defensive teams.

I wouldn't get excited with Odom or moses but I also wouldn't bitch about them.

I seen some iona games and I'm turned off by his teams.
Just how I feel.[/quote]
Basically his teams gave up 74, 85 and 99 points to Columbia, Princeton and Yale. Plus 88 to VCU, and was blown out by Providence 91-79. All losses.
Let the good times roll!
 
The longer this process drags out, the more I think that we're gong to F-up another coaching search. After all, that's the St John's way of doing things.
 
[quote="oldschool Redmen" post=340978]
Other little school get some big upsets in the ncaat, Cluess hasn't once in 6 tries.
Great record vs. MAAC teams, you really think he'd have the same success in the B.E. tournament?
NEGATIVE.[/quote]

Redmen.com: where the best predictor of future performance is not past performance but assumption.
 
[quote="MainMan" post=340984][quote="oldschool Redmen" post=340978]
Other little school get some big upsets in the ncaat, Cluess hasn't once in 6 tries.
Great record vs. MAAC teams, you really think he'd have the same success in the B.E. tournament?
NEGATIVE.[/quote]

Redmen.com: where the best predictor of future performance is not past performance but assumption.[/quote]

Haha. I gotta laugh, timmy boy is going lead us to glory.
Yeah, keep on thinking that.
 
I totally agree with the aspiration to challenge Villanova on a consistent basis.
But we've got to walk with contenders before we can run with champions.
I see a 1-4 year time frame to be on par with Providence, Hall, Xavier, Marquette, Creighton and 4+ years to be able to challenge Nova consistently.
My worry about picking a young, hungry coach to lead that challenge is that 'he' would have higher aspirations of his own over that span and leave us high and dry.
Would Cluess succeed at the high major level at St. John's?
Don't know.
But I do know he'd bust his gut to do that and be here long term.
Better than good enough for me versus playing in the shark pool world of high major coaches.
 
How are you guys seriously comparing his coaching record against teams in significantly better conferences? All those teams have talent levels exponentially better as no 4 star recruit will play in the MAAC. Iona, by any metric you look at (Kenpom, wins, RPI, etc) has VASTLY outperformed every other team in their league.

Being disappointed that we beat them at home by "only" 10 points with our full squad the same year we beat Duke and Nova is laughable. Maybe we should target Mark Few instead? He's the only coach in a mid major conference bringing in talent anywhere near our level. Or we could just hire a couple competent recruiters. Apparently St. John's is good enough to get Heron/Mack/Wilson/etc to commit without even meeting the head coach.

No candidate is perfect but Cluess checks off a lot of boxes. He'd be a smart hire and I'd be happy to have him as our next coach.
 
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[quote="oldschool Redmen" post=340985][quote="MainMan" post=340984][quote="oldschool Redmen" post=340978]
Other little school get some big upsets in the ncaat, Cluess hasn't once in 6 tries.
Great record vs. MAAC teams, you really think he'd have the same success in the B.E. tournament?
NEGATIVE.[/quote]

Redmen.com: where the best predictor of future performance is not past performance but assumption.[/quote]

Haha. I gotta laugh, timmy boy is going lead us to glory.
Yeah, keep on thinking that.[/quote]

I'm gonna say this. When confronted, you are always really so nice about it that I hesitate to do that anymore. I'm sure you are a really nice guy who gets bent out of shape on SJU basketball. But you really have to relax and let things play out.

No malice meant. You are a really passionate fan. I don't know if you get to games, but especially Carnesecca games I frequently have an extra ticket. Next season I'm going to offer one to you.
 
2012 First Four Lost to BYU - 78-72
2013 15 Seed Lost to Ohio St 95-70
2016 13 seed Lost to Iowa St 94-81
2017 14 seed Lost to Oregon 93-77
2018 15 Seed Lost to Duke 85-57
2019 16 Seed Lost to UNC 88-73

I wanted to put the Tournament Games in perspective. I will say that coming from a one bid league they needed to win conference tournaments to get in which is never easy.

I have nothing against Cluess. I would prefer a coach younger than 60 but will continue to shout from the Mountain tops that Pitino is a no brainer.

I understand that Pitino is older than Cluess is but he is a great HOF coach that usually would not be available.
 
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[quote="SJUNC" post=340992]2012 First Four Lost to BYU - 78-72
2013 15 Seed Lost to Ohio St 95-70
2016 13 seed Lost to Iowa St 94-81
2017 14 seed Lost to Oregon 93-77
2018 15 Seed Lost to Duke 85-57
2019 16 Seed Lost to UNC 88-73

I wanted to put the Tournament Games in perspective. I will say that coming from a one bid league they needed to win conference tournaments to get in which is never easy.

I have nothing against Cluess. I would prefer a coach younger than 60 but will continue to shout from the Mountain tops that Pitino is a no brainer.[/quote]

Funny, we lost to Duke by 30 this year while Iona lost to UNC in the Dance by 15 and led at the Half by 3.
Unless blown away by an 'ideal' HC, young/hungry and loyal to a metric other than the $, Cluess is our guy, imo.
 
[quote="oldschool Redmen" post=340985]

Haha. I gotta laugh, timmy boy is going lead us to glory.
Yeah, keep on thinking that.[/quote]

Glory?
No. We are St. John's.
What's the difference between Paul Hewitt and Louie? Paul Hewitt competed for a national championship.
This program has an out-sized ego it does not deserve thanks to 1979, 1983, 1985 and so-so 1986 and 1991.
We actually had a great run from '79 to 91. That's a solid 12 years of mostly Top 20, sometimes Top 10 basketball.
We've been irrelevant since. (except for, gulp, Jarvis's first two years).

My goal for Cluess and anyone else is to build a program that would consistently be in the top half of the BE.
That equates to a 20 win season and a puncher's chance at the NCAAs every other year.
Everything else is gravy.
Because We Are St. John's.
And our expectations should reflect our history.
 
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[quote="Beast of the East" post=340988][quote="oldschool Redmen" post=340985][quote="MainMan" post=340984][quote="oldschool Redmen" post=340978]
Other little school get some big upsets in the ncaat, Cluess hasn't once in 6 tries.
Great record vs. MAAC teams, you really think he'd have the same success in the B.E. tournament?
NEGATIVE.[/quote]

Redmen.com: where the best predictor of future performance is not past performance but assumption.[/quote]

Haha. I gotta laugh, timmy boy is going lead us to glory.
Yeah, keep on thinking that.[/quote]

I'm gonna say this. When confronted, you are always really so nice about it that I hesitate to do that anymore. I'm sure you are a really nice guy who gets bent out of shape on SJU basketball. But you really have to relax and let things play out.

No malice meant. You are a really passionate fan. I don't know if you get to games, but especially Carnesecca games I frequently have an extra ticket. Next season I'm going to offer one to you.[/quote]

Ha "when confronted you're really nice about it." So I'm supposed to take it as a compliment when you say i remind you of beatle juice. Not gonna happen, and I'll always go right back. Just how i always was and always how I will be. I dont name call with anyone, unless they start it.
I'll take your offer up unless cluess is our coach.
 
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[quote="Brian W." post=340928][quote="Moose" post=340915][quote="MainMan" post=340908][quote="RedStormNC" post=340905]Adam Zagoria
‏@AdamZagoria

Source: Tim Cluess’ buyout has caused things to become ‘stagnant’ with @StJohnsBBall. The buyout is in the $2-2.5M range.[/quote]

Did anyone do any homework about the targets' current contracts?[/quote]

Well when coaches walk away a job usually the $4M stays put.
But We Are![/quote]

Walked away? He was forced out by a combination of factors, not least of which is toxic fans like yourself.

Just over a week ago we had a quality team, a coach who had just got his first 20 win season and an NCAA berth. Now we're interviewing his 4th assistant, Greg St. Jean, to steer a ship which has lost all its players, recruits and other assistants. We are a circus. All that "fire Mullin" CRAP all year from twitter and other media, including this site. Couldn't even leave him alone while he took care of pressing family business. No loyalty. No respect.

Well you imbeciles couldn't leave well enough alone. Now you got what you wanted. Half of you are a total disgrace.[/quote]
I put myself in the court of those who thought that Mullin could succeed if, and only if, he adapted and was surrounded by coaches who filled the gaps. If he was unwilling, I believed he had to go.

I’ll say this now, and speaking for myself, I grossly overestimated the candidates we would be entertaining. None of them, including Cluess, are options that will get us where we want to be quickly. We’ve been reduced to George Constanza trying to convince ourselves that our girlfriend is pretty and doesn’t look like Jerry.
 
[quote="oldschool Redmen" post=340985]

Haha. I gotta laugh, timmy boy is going lead us to glory.
Yeah, keep on thinking that.[/quote]

Glory?
No. We are St. John's.
What's the difference between Paul Hewitt and Louie? Paul Hewitt competed for a national championship.
This program has an out-sized ego it does not deserve thanks to 1979, 1983, 1985 and so-so 1986 and 1991.
We actually had a great run from '79 to 91. That's a solid 12 years of mostly Top 20, sometimes Top 10 basketball.
We've been irrelevant since. (except for, gulp, Jarvis's first two years).

My goal for Cluess and anyone else is to build a program that would consistently be in the top half of the BE.
That equates to a 20 win season and a puncher's chance at the NCAAs every other year.
Everything else is gravy.
Because We Are St. John's.
And our expectations should reflect our history.
 
[quote="oldschool Redmen" post=340978][quote="Amaseinyourface" post=340976][quote="oldschool Redmen" post=340974][quote="Amaseinyourface" post=340970][quote="oldschool Redmen" post=340961][quote="Amaseinyourface" post=340681]Just playing devils advocate but what kind of players would you expect cluess to recruit to Iona? How bout the ones that are good enough to win the conference on a consistent basis.

And if your stance is that he’s always had the best players, well shit we’re gonna hold that against him too?[/quote]

He's a proven coach in a freaking MID MAJOR CONF. I hope we don't see how he does in a HIGH MAJOR CONF.[/quote]

Right, winning in a lesser conferences should deter us from looking into him.[/quote]

0-6 in the ncaa tourny. No defense.
The 2 teams in the NC game was what? Great defensive teams.

I wouldn't get excited with Odom or moses but I also wouldn't bitch about them.

I seen some iona games and I'm turned off by his teams.
Just how I feel.[/quote]

Much more fair than “he coaches in a freaking midmajor conference!!”

0-6 in he NCAAT tournament doesn’t scare me that much. Iona is never expected to win a tourney game. How bout his record in conference tourney games?[/quote]

Other little school get some big upsets in the ncaat, Cluess hasn't once in 6 tries.
Great record vs. MAAC teams, you really think he'd have the same success in the B.E. tournament?
NEGATIVE.[/quote]
Mid Major is a broad category. MAAC is a VERY low mid major. The A10 and MAC, on the other hand, are more of a high mid major
 
[quote="Section3" post=341005][quote="Brian W." post=340928][quote="Moose" post=340915][quote="MainMan" post=340908][quote="RedStormNC" post=340905]Adam Zagoria
‏@AdamZagoria

Source: Tim Cluess’ buyout has caused things to become ‘stagnant’ with @StJohnsBBall. The buyout is in the $2-2.5M range.[/quote]

Did anyone do any homework about the targets' current contracts?[/quote]

Well when coaches walk away a job usually the $4M stays put.
But We Are![/quote]

Walked away? He was forced out by a combination of factors, not least of which is toxic fans like yourself.

Just over a week ago we had a quality team, a coach who had just got his first 20 win season and an NCAA berth. Now we're interviewing his 4th assistant, Greg St. Jean, to steer a ship which has lost all its players, recruits and other assistants. We are a circus. All that "fire Mullin" CRAP all year from twitter and other media, including this site. Couldn't even leave him alone while he took care of pressing family business. No loyalty. No respect.

Well you imbeciles couldn't leave well enough alone. Now you got what you wanted. Half of you are a total disgrace.[/quote]
I put myself in the court of those who thought that Mullin could succeed if, and only if, he adapted and was surrounded by coaches who filled the gaps. If he was unwilling, I believed he had to go.

I’ll say this now, and speaking for myself, I grossly overestimated the candidates we would be entertaining. None of them, including Cluess, are options that will get us where we want to be quickly. We’ve been reduced to George Constanza trying to convince ourselves that our girlfriend is pretty and doesn’t look like Jerry.[/quote]
George actually had some pretty good looking girlfriends, St. John's not so much having good coaches.
 
[quote="Chicago Days" post=340986]I totally agree with the aspiration to challenge Villanova on a consistent basis.
But we've got to walk with contenders before we can run with champions.
I see a 1-4 year time frame to be on par with Providence, Hall, Xavier, Marquette, Creighton and 4+ years to be able to challenge Nova consistently.
My worry about picking a young, hungry coach to lead that challenge is that 'he' would have higher aspirations of his own over that span and leave us high and dry.
Would Cluess succeed at the high major level at St. John's?
Don't know.
But I do know he'd bust his gut to do that and be here long term.
Better than good enough for me versus playing in the shark pool world of high major coaches.[/quote]
1-4 years to run with PC, X et al? We were there! Now we are OK with taking a huge step back and take 4 years to get where we were at end of 2019?

Hate to say it. We were better off trading a commitment to changes for an extension. I personally overestimated the prospective candidates and underestimated the defections.
 
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[quote="MainMan" post=341009][quote="oldschool Redmen" post=340985]

Haha. I gotta laugh, timmy boy is going lead us to glory.
Yeah, keep on thinking that.[/quote]



Glory?
No. We are St. John's.
What's the difference between Paul Hewitt and Louie? Paul Hewitt competed for a national championship.
This program has an out-sized ego it does not deserve thanks to 1979, 1983, 1985 and so-so 1986 and 1991.
We actually had a great run from '79 to 91. That's a solid 12 years of mostly Top 20, sometimes Top 10 basketball.
We've been irrelevant since. (except for, gulp, Jarvis's first two years).

My goal for Cluess and anyone else is to build a program that would consistently be in the top half of the BE.
That equates to a 20 win season and a puncher's chance at the NCAAs every other year.
Everything else is gravy.
Because We Are St. John's.
And our expectations should reflect our history.[/quote]

So 20wins every year is good enough for you huh. Happy to finish behind nova every yesr and atleast 1 -2 schools. So 4 place every year is acceptable to you?

Well you settle for that, me? I want to be king of the b.e. every 2 or 3 times in a 5 year period. I want a top 15 program most year.
And i dont care who laughs at this but yeah i want a freaking nc, and I'm saying that with a straight face. Might take 10-15yrs to do it, but if jay did it twice in. 3 yrs at villanova.
There has to be someone that can do 1NC in the next 10yrs.
 
[quote="bamafan" post=341013][quote="Section3" post=341005][quote="Brian W." post=340928][quote="Moose" post=340915][quote="MainMan" post=340908][quote="RedStormNC" post=340905]Adam Zagoria
‏@AdamZagoria

Source: Tim Cluess’ buyout has caused things to become ‘stagnant’ with @StJohnsBBall. The buyout is in the $2-2.5M range.[/quote]

Did anyone do any homework about the targets' current contracts?[/quote]

Well when coaches walk away a job usually the $4M stays put.
But We Are![/quote]

Walked away? He was forced out by a combination of factors, not least of which is toxic fans like yourself.

Just over a week ago we had a quality team, a coach who had just got his first 20 win season and an NCAA berth. Now we're interviewing his 4th assistant, Greg St. Jean, to steer a ship which has lost all its players, recruits and other assistants. We are a circus. All that "fire Mullin" CRAP all year from twitter and other media, including this site. Couldn't even leave him alone while he took care of pressing family business. No loyalty. No respect.

Well you imbeciles couldn't leave well enough alone. Now you got what you wanted. Half of you are a total disgrace.[/quote]
I put myself in the court of those who thought that Mullin could succeed if, and only if, he adapted and was surrounded by coaches who filled the gaps. If he was unwilling, I believed he had to go.

I’ll say this now, and speaking for myself, I grossly overestimated the candidates we would be entertaining. None of them, including Cluess, are options that will get us where we want to be quickly. We’ve been reduced to George Constanza trying to convince ourselves that our girlfriend is pretty and doesn’t look like Jerry.[/quote]
George actually had some pretty good looking girlfriends, St. John's not so much having good coaches.[/quote]
Let’s be fair, only when he did the opposite
 
[quote="Section3" post=341015][quote="Chicago Days" post=340986]I totally agree with the aspiration to challenge Villanova on a consistent basis.
But we've got to walk with contenders before we can run with champions.
I see a 1-4 year time frame to be on par with Providence, Hall, Xavier, Marquette, Creighton and 4+ years to be able to challenge Nova consistently.
My worry about picking a young, hungry coach to lead that challenge is that 'he' would have higher aspirations of his own over that span and leave us high and dry.
Would Cluess succeed at the high major level at St. John's?
Don't know.
But I do know he'd bust his gut to do that and be here long term.
Better than good enough for me versus playing in the shark pool world of high major coaches.[/quote]
1-4 years to run with PC, X et al? We were there! Now we are OK with taking a huge step back and take 4 years to get where we were at end of 2019?

Hate to say it. We were better off trading a commitment to changes for an extension. I personally overestimated the prospective candidates and underestimated the defections.[/quote

We were ‘there’ in lightening bug fashion. Ponds was out the door regardless, Mack and Keita and Trimble and Manuel gone when Matt left. Poof. Gone.
Our HC and Staff was not fully committed and basically, dysfunctional.
The challenge is to build a program that achieves consistent success.
That’s done with hard work and includes recruiting, x&o strategy, player development, roster construction, and having a Staff functioning on all cylinders to accomplish those goals.
And that is best done with a coach not looking to jump at the first ‘golden’ goose that he sees.
Cluess seems our best chance to achieve that imo.
 
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