Cluess

[quote="MainMan" post=340870][quote="Beast of the East" post=340865]
Serious question for anyone with time on their hands or ESPKEN: Who was the last St. John's Coach to go to the NCAA tournament 6 times in 8 years and 4 times in a row?[/quote]

Louie, of course.[/quote]

Wow. Carnesecca did 16 of his last 18 seasons, but only 3 out of his first 7, and 4 out of his first 8. 19 of 25 overall.
Not to denigrate that, but that was in the period that the NCAA was trying to crush the NIT, and SJU in the NIT gave them a strong local draw.
 
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[quote="MJDinkins" post=340823]I'm not at all concerned what conference Cluess is coming from. Tons of quality coaches have come from smaller conferences.

I'm just not sold on his style of play and how it'll translate here without the necessary talent. As, I stated a couple of weeks ago.... He won't have the same advantages at St. John's as he had at Iona when it comes to particular personnel at his disposal. If he's adept at adapting, then he might be capable of working out here. Though the term "working out" is debatable. My "working out" is challenging Villanova on a routine basis. Some other folks "working out" may be along the lines of Providence and Seton Hall.[/quote]

This hire would be along the lines of DePaul, DePaul and DePaul. The refusal to be creative in funding the job will relegate St. John's to the bottom of the conference and out of the vocabulary of every major recruit. You will miss Lavin, a national coach, who went to 4 post season appearances in his 4 years and who was a recognized name. If it's Cluess, so be it, but then accept our fate as a mid major and cease and desist from any discussions of NCAA tournament appearances. This President has been the death knell of St. John's basketball.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=340875][quote="MJDinkins" post=340823]I'm not at all concerned what conference Cluess is coming from. Tons of quality coaches have come from smaller conferences.

I'm just not sold on his style of play and how it'll translate here without the necessary talent. As, I stated a couple of weeks ago.... He won't have the same advantages at St. John's as he had at Iona when it comes to particular personnel at his disposal. If he's adept at adapting, then he might be capable of working out here. Though the term "working out" is debatable. My "working out" is challenging Villanova on a routine basis. Some other folks "working out" may be along the lines of Providence and Seton Hall.[/quote]

This hire would be along the lines of DePaul, DePaul and DePaul. The refusal to be creative in funding the job will relegate St. John's to the bottom of the conference and out of the vocabulary of every major recruit. You will miss Lavin, a national coach, who went to 4 post season appearances in his 4 years and who was a recognized name. If it's Cluess, so be it, but then accept our fate as a mid major and cease and desist from any discussions of NCAA tournament appearances. This President has been the death knell of St. John's basketball.[/quote]

How do you creatively fund a homerun hire that would be in the $3.5 to $5 million per year range? Debt financing?
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=340880][quote="Class of 72" post=340875][quote="MJDinkins" post=340823]I'm not at all concerned what conference Cluess is coming from. Tons of quality coaches have come from smaller conferences.

I'm just not sold on his style of play and how it'll translate here without the necessary talent. As, I stated a couple of weeks ago.... He won't have the same advantages at St. John's as he had at Iona when it comes to particular personnel at his disposal. If he's adept at adapting, then he might be capable of working out here. Though the term "working out" is debatable. My "working out" is challenging Villanova on a routine basis. Some other folks "working out" may be along the lines of Providence and Seton Hall.[/quote]

This hire would be along the lines of DePaul, DePaul and DePaul. The refusal to be creative in funding the job will relegate St. John's to the bottom of the conference and out of the vocabulary of every major recruit. You will miss Lavin, a national coach, who went to 4 post season appearances in his 4 years and who was a recognized name. If it's Cluess, so be it, but then accept our fate as a mid major and cease and desist from any discussions of NCAA tournament appearances. This President has been the death knell of St. John's basketball.[/quote]

How do you creatively fund a homerun hire that would be in the $3.5 to $5 million per year range? Debt financing?[/quote]

But no way would SJU be hiring anyone making more that 3.5 to me. Even that seems hefty.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=340875][quote="MJDinkins" post=340823]I'm not at all concerned what conference Cluess is coming from. Tons of quality coaches have come from smaller conferences.

I'm just not sold on his style of play and how it'll translate here without the necessary talent. As, I stated a couple of weeks ago.... He won't have the same advantages at St. John's as he had at Iona when it comes to particular personnel at his disposal. If he's adept at adapting, then he might be capable of working out here. Though the term "working out" is debatable. My "working out" is challenging Villanova on a routine basis. Some other folks "working out" may be along the lines of Providence and Seton Hall.[/quote]

This hire would be along the lines of DePaul, DePaul and DePaul. The refusal to be creative in funding the job will relegate St. John's to the bottom of the conference and out of the vocabulary of every major recruit. You will miss Lavin, a national coach, who went to 4 post season appearances in his 4 years and who was a recognized name. If it's Cluess, so be it, but then accept our fate as a mid major and cease and desist from any discussions of NCAA tournament appearances. This President has been the death knell of St. John's basketball.[/quote]

Time to call you out 72. You were the biggest Lavin hater and basher on this site for 3 years, so for you to use Lavin as an example is comical.

Go back and look at Lavin threads and they are littered with your posts bashing Lavin.

Do you have selective amnesia?
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=340880][quote="Class of 72" post=340875][quote="MJDinkins" post=340823]I'm not at all concerned what conference Cluess is coming from. Tons of quality coaches have come from smaller conferences.

I'm just not sold on his style of play and how it'll translate here without the necessary talent. As, I stated a couple of weeks ago.... He won't have the same advantages at St. John's as he had at Iona when it comes to particular personnel at his disposal. If he's adept at adapting, then he might be capable of working out here. Though the term "working out" is debatable. My "working out" is challenging Villanova on a routine basis. Some other folks "working out" may be along the lines of Providence and Seton Hall.[/quote]

This hire would be along the lines of DePaul, DePaul and DePaul. The refusal to be creative in funding the job will relegate St. John's to the bottom of the conference and out of the vocabulary of every major recruit. You will miss Lavin, a national coach, who went to 4 post season appearances in his 4 years and who was a recognized name. If it's Cluess, so be it, but then accept our fate as a mid major and cease and desist from any discussions of NCAA tournament appearances. This President has been the death knell of St. John's basketball.[/quote]

How do you creatively fund a homerun hire that would be in the $3.5 to $5 million per year range? Debt financing?[/quote]

you hire Pitino and run an easy surplus in year ONE
 
It seems logical that this process could continue with an interview or two over the weekend. In the meantime, names will fly all over the place. We may be better served just waiting to see what Monday brings. Perhaps Cluess is the guy at the end of the day, but it seems Cragg is conducting a process at a speed he determines. Yes, Hurley pursuit left a bad taste in my mouth, but let’s see what the outcome is before rendering judgment.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=340874][quote="MainMan" post=340870][quote="Beast of the East" post=340865]
Serious question for anyone with time on their hands or ESPKEN: Who was the last St. John's Coach to go to the NCAA tournament 6 times in 8 years and 4 times in a row?[/quote]

Louie, of course.[/quote]

Wow. Carnesecca did 16 of his last 18 seasons, but only 3 out of his first 7, and 4 out of his first 8. 19 of 25 overall.
Not to denigrate that, but that was in the period that the NCAA was trying to crush the NIT, and SJU in the NIT gave them a strong local draw.[/quote]
For the record, during Louie's tenure the number of invitations went from 25 to 32 (in 1975) to 40 (in 1979) to 48 (in 1980) to 52 (1983) to 53 (1984) and finally 64 (1985).
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=340893]It seems logical that this process could continue with an interview or two over the weekend. In the meantime, names will fly all over the place. We may be better served just waiting to see what Monday brings. Perhaps Cluess is the guy at the end of the day, but it seems Cragg is conducting a process at a speed he determines. Yes, Hurley pursuit left a bad taste in my mouth, but let’s see what the outcome is before rendering judgment.[/quote]

The risks were all there in terms of rejection and I'm sure Cragg and our team knew that.. It's plausible that Hurley was sincere in his interest, but when ASU quickly promised to renegotiate his deal, likely before SJU even made a concrete offer, he decided to stay put for the time being. His name will likely be called again by a much more attractive situation than St. John's
 
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Cluess still seems like the best name we could get. Unless there is a surprise candidate (highly doubt it), sign Cluess during the next few days.

Why is his age even a significant factor? Look at the age of most elite coaches around the NCAA, they're older than him by 5-15 years. If he has a good 10+ years here then that'd be incredible. While younger may be better, there are risks and concerns no matter what age a candidate is. Younger candidates for instance may get poached 3-5 years from now. In no way is his age a deal breaker.

A lot of people are just looking for issues. Let's look at the positives, because there are far more of them. He loves New York/St. John's (even lives here), is a hard worker (as a coach), has ZERO baggage, and has went to the Tournament 4 years in a row. Now tell me how many of those very important boxes our last few coaches checked off. One or two at best? He isn't a sexy name but he WILL be if he has a couple successful seasons here. Sign him.
 
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I'm antsy. 'Pazienza' has never been a trait of mine; last in line for it.
And with the roster in a fragile state and with pending recruiting events on the horizon as well as the need to repair the roster and sign a couple of Grad Transfers (mysteries or not), I do not see how we can wait any longer than Monday for resolution on getting a new HC and a new Staff .
To linger on this is irresponsible, imo.
Whether it's Cluess or the insane idea of Pitino, or Rhoades, Odom, or Scheyer on steroids, I don't care.
We need hungry, dedicated, and capable management of our basketball program and we need that now.
Find the guy and get him in here.
 
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Adam Zagoria
‏@AdamZagoria

Source: Tim Cluess’ buyout has caused things to become ‘stagnant’ with @StJohnsBBall. The buyout is in the $2-2.5M range.
 
[quote="RedStormNC" post=340905]Adam Zagoria
‏@AdamZagoria

Source: Tim Cluess’ buyout has caused things to become ‘stagnant’ with @StJohnsBBall. The buyout is in the $2-2.5M range.[/quote]

Did anyone do any homework about the targets' current contracts?
 
[quote="Adam" post=340902]Cluess still seems like the best name we could get. Unless there is a surprise candidate (highly doubt it), sign Cluess during the next few days.

Why is his age even a significant factor? Look at the age of most elite coaches around the NCAA, they're older than him by 5-15 years. If he has a good 10+ years here then that'd be incredible. While younger may be better, there are risks and concerns no matter what age a candidate is. Younger candidates for instance may get poached 3-5 years from now. In no way is his age a deal breaker.

A lot of people are just looking for issues. Let's look at the positives, because there are far more of them. He loves New York/St. John's (even lives here), is a hard worker (as a coach), has ZERO baggage, and has went to the Tournament 4 years in a row. Now tell me how many of those very important boxes our last few coaches checked off. One or two at best? He isn't a sexy name but he WILL be if he has a couple successful seasons here. Sign him.[/quote]

His age definitely shouldn't be a factor. As you noted, the younger coaches that succeed end up moving on. Can't think of too many current big time coaches that have stayed at one school for the long haul. Coach K, Izzo, Boeheim?
 
[quote="RedStormNC" post=340905]Adam Zagoria
‏@AdamZagoria

Source: Tim Cluess’ buyout has caused things to become ‘stagnant’ with @StJohnsBBall. The buyout is in the $2-2.5M range.[/quote]

That's a hefty sum that makes me go 'gulp'. Hurley's was $2.5mm. But we need a coach in the worst way to stanch the 'bleed', rebuild the roster and recruit.
 
[quote="RedStormNC" post=340905]Adam Zagoria
‏@AdamZagoria

Source: Tim Cluess’ buyout has caused things to become ‘stagnant’ with @StJohnsBBall. The buyout is in the $2-2.5M range.[/quote]

Apparently we were willing to pay at least that amount for Hurley but the same, or lower, amount has caused things to become stagnant with Cluess. Hmmm.
 
[quote="RedStormNC" post=340905]Adam Zagoria
‏@AdamZagoria

Source: Tim Cluess’ buyout has caused things to become ‘stagnant’ with @StJohnsBBall. The buyout is in the $2-2.5M range.[/quote]

Wow, that's unacceptable. We need to pay it. Cluess would be paid significantly less than a Hurley annually. How were we even in the running for Hurley? Is it because donors won't back Cluess?
 
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[quote="Chicago Days" post=340910][quote="RedStormNC" post=340905]Adam Zagoria
‏@AdamZagoria

Source: Tim Cluess’ buyout has caused things to become ‘stagnant’ with @StJohnsBBall. The buyout is in the $2-2.5M range.[/quote]

That's a hefty sum that makes me go 'gulp'. Hurley's was $2.5mm. But we need a coach in the worst way to stanch the 'bleed', rebuild the roster and recruit.[/quote]

I'm in the wrong business. I need to get coaches under contract and then collect buy out money... crickets that's a lot of cash.
 
[quote="MainMan" post=340908][quote="RedStormNC" post=340905]Adam Zagoria
‏@AdamZagoria

Source: Tim Cluess’ buyout has caused things to become ‘stagnant’ with @StJohnsBBall. The buyout is in the $2-2.5M range.[/quote]

Did anyone do any homework about the targets' current contracts?[/quote]

Well when coaches walk away a job usually the $4M stays put.
But We Are!
 
Fran being Fran, always and forever:

Fran Fraschilla
Looks like @StJohnsBBall closing in on Iona’s solid Tim Cluess, who has Red Storm DNA. The last decision to hire a mid-major coach was a good one but this will have the support of their Hall of Fame coach. That will help immensely.
 
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