Not that long ago we were all jumping for joy (well, sorta) when Mike Jarvis received a commitment from from another kid named Jones from Texas -- the unheralded Tyler Jones -- yet now some fans are grousing about Coach Lavin adding someone who sounds like a more talented player to the end of our bench. I think I'll go with Lavin on this one.
Christian Jones
- Thread starter MJDinkins
- Start date
Not that long ago we were all jumping for joy (well, sorta) when Mike Jarvis received a commitment from from another kid named Jones from Texas -- the unheralded Tyler Jones -- yet now some fans are grousing about Coach Lavin adding someone who sounds like a more talented player to the end of our bench. I think I'll go with Lavin on this one.
Obviously the staff has seen something in Christian that they like. There ARE some things that can be gleaned from a highlight reel, tho I feel pretty sure Laving and Chiles have seen him in person, and verified that during the on campus friday/saturday. Great leaper, obviously very strong physically. Looks like great footspeed (judging from the clips - he pulls away on breaks several times from what look like 6 foot guards chashing him). Decent midrange shot (one highlight clip showed him hitting three 15-17 foot shots in what from the jerseys appeared to be the same game...most kids these days don't even ATTEMPT 3 midrange shots a game). Appears to have a fine first step, and very good body control. Looks to be very guick off the floor on 2nd jumps - again highlight clip stuff, but several times gets his own offensive reb for a putback. Appears to have a good concept of spacing on offense. Generally seems to be in the right place on the court. Appears to also move well without the ball.
Some seem concerned with his size - they're calling him a PF, and one report says 6'8, but it seems pretty obvious that's an overstatement (tho kids DO grow - at his age David Robinson was stillshort enuf to get into the Naval Academy) - but I'm guessing 6'5-6'6.
Size (or lack of it) at the PF spot has never scared off Lavin - especially at the BACKUP Pf spot. From the clips Jones reminds me physically very much of a poor mans version of former Lavin player JaRon Rush - the BEST of the three Rush brothers (Kareem and Brandon), who drank himself out of his college and pro career. And yes, Lav's had no qualms qualms with the 6'5 1/2 210 lb Rush at PF (his natural position) or at SF. He led Lav's top 25 Bruin team in rebounding as a frosh, on front line that also had Dan Gadzuric, future lotto pick Jerome Moiso, and Matt Barnes. And its worth noting, the 6'6 1/2 Matt Barnes (they now list him at 6'7 in the NBA) started for 2 years at PF - on two Sweet 16/top 25 teams - alongside SF Jason Kapono and C Gadzuric for Steve.
Right now this kid projects as the 12th man off the bench, as the 3rd string PF (behind a Junior College All Americn in Sanchez and a top 40 talent in Sampson). SO there's plenty of time for him to develop.
Think of it this way - if this kid was a year older and this was a year earlier and we signed him July 1st, even tho we aleady knew our roster was Norvell Pelle, Mo Harkless, Amir Garrett, Nurideen Lindsey, Malik Stith, Sir Dom Pointer, D'Angelo Harrison, God's Gift Achiuwa, Phil Greene - we'd have likely thought he was in excess THEN, too - we should save the ride for the 2012 class. After all, look at all the posts on there being no downside to the Meikle decommit. Heck, Meikle would have never seen the court for us last year, right? So we finish the season with 6 bodies. A 7th (even a Meikle or Christian Jones - and I like the idea of Jones better) would have been a blessing.
I'm thinking the staff is simply taking no chances. They think this kid is a legitimate 10th/11th/12th player on the bench, with a chance a couple years with Rico can turn him into something more - maybe much more.
Rides for next year will work out - they seem to always do (D'lo, Sampson, Sanchez may go). BUT - do you realize the DOWNSIDE if the rides DON'T open up? The DOWNSIDE is we have to play the 2013/14 season with D'lo as a Junior, Sampson as a Sophmore, and Sanchez as a Senior, instead of breaking in three freshmen, and wait to get our freshman in the 2014 class instead. Having 3 potential NBA players an extra year, with an extra year of maturity and development is the DOWNSIDE :lol:
Some seem concerned with his size - they're calling him a PF, and one report says 6'8, but it seems pretty obvious that's an overstatement (tho kids DO grow - at his age David Robinson was stillshort enuf to get into the Naval Academy) - but I'm guessing 6'5-6'6.
Size (or lack of it) at the PF spot has never scared off Lavin - especially at the BACKUP Pf spot. From the clips Jones reminds me physically very much of a poor mans version of former Lavin player JaRon Rush - the BEST of the three Rush brothers (Kareem and Brandon), who drank himself out of his college and pro career. And yes, Lav's had no qualms qualms with the 6'5 1/2 210 lb Rush at PF (his natural position) or at SF. He led Lav's top 25 Bruin team in rebounding as a frosh, on front line that also had Dan Gadzuric, future lotto pick Jerome Moiso, and Matt Barnes. And its worth noting, the 6'6 1/2 Matt Barnes (they now list him at 6'7 in the NBA) started for 2 years at PF - on two Sweet 16/top 25 teams - alongside SF Jason Kapono and C Gadzuric for Steve.
Right now this kid projects as the 12th man off the bench, as the 3rd string PF (behind a Junior College All Americn in Sanchez and a top 40 talent in Sampson). SO there's plenty of time for him to develop.
Think of it this way - if this kid was a year older and this was a year earlier and we signed him July 1st, even tho we aleady knew our roster was Norvell Pelle, Mo Harkless, Amir Garrett, Nurideen Lindsey, Malik Stith, Sir Dom Pointer, D'Angelo Harrison, God's Gift Achiuwa, Phil Greene - we'd have likely thought he was in excess THEN, too - we should save the ride for the 2012 class. After all, look at all the posts on there being no downside to the Meikle decommit. Heck, Meikle would have never seen the court for us last year, right? So we finish the season with 6 bodies. A 7th (even a Meikle or Christian Jones - and I like the idea of Jones better) would have been a blessing.
I'm thinking the staff is simply taking no chances. They think this kid is a legitimate 10th/11th/12th player on the bench, with a chance a couple years with Rico can turn him into something more - maybe much more.
Rides for next year will work out - they seem to always do (D'lo, Sampson, Sanchez may go). BUT - do you realize the DOWNSIDE if the rides DON'T open up? The DOWNSIDE is we have to play the 2013/14 season with D'lo as a Junior, Sampson as a Sophmore, and Sanchez as a Senior, instead of breaking in three freshmen, and wait to get our freshman in the 2014 class instead. Having 3 potential NBA players an extra year, with an extra year of maturity and development is the DOWNSIDE :lol:
G'town under the older John Thompson used to recruit a lot of athletes that could run, jump and play D. This kid seems to have some skill in addition to above qualities and with solid coaching could be a very solid 4 yr contributor. We don't need all of our guys to be the type you have to be concerned that they already have one foot out the door. Butler, VC and G. Mason all went to final 4 recently and without many if any highly recruited players. I trust coach and doubt he would "waste" a schollie given they we should have precious few over the next two seasons. Having a solid experienced roster and maybe adding the likes of a J Lawrence or similar type player in 13 and a C McCollough or the like in 14 would not be bad and after that will have many schollies to recruit more top players.
The benefits outweigh the negatives with this development. The staff clearly sees upside with Christian and they haven't been wrong in that department in 2 years time. I'd rather have a kid like this than some malcontent prima donna who turns out to not live up to the hype( Nurideen). Worst case scenario is he sits on the end of the bench and works hard to get better while we finagle ways to open ships for '13.
RedStorm212
Member
I think there has to be a good reason Lavin used a 2012 'ship on this kid. They must've seen something in him that led them to believe he'd be a good player.
I prefer to go by what I see rather than some ranking by guys who are lucky to have seen half these kids. Let's face it, trick photography notwithstanding, this kid looks like a real find. If he's 6'6" I compare him with Dom and Amir and see things on offense that they can't touch. He also seems more comfortable near the hoop than Sampson and Sanchez. I watch and see quick feet, good hands, rebounding skills and oh yeah, that 40 inch vertical. What's not to like here? This is not a 12 or 13 man. He's a guy who will push a bunch of others and that's a good thing. He looks like a super sleeper to me or at least a kid with great cinematography connections.
Moose
Well-known member
You just love trying to tout the underdog and when he succeeds, tooting your own horn
I agree he does things Amir and Dom don't. He has a better touch on his jumper. Seems confident to take the ball along the baseline and immediately shoot. No indecisiveness there.
Must disagree with you about him being more comfortable around the hoop than Sampson.
You just love trying to tout the underdog and when he succeeds, tooting your own horn
I agree he does things Amir and Dom don't. He has a better touch on his jumper. Seems confident to take the ball along the baseline and immediately shoot. No indecisiveness there.
Must disagree with you about him being more comfortable around the hoop than Sampson.
Yeah I just love underdogs, especially when they succeed. Glad you agree about Amir and Dom. Got to give them the edge on "D" but this guy seems to be a horse down low. When I've seen Sampson play he seemed to station himself around the free throw line and slash to the hoop. There's room for both of these guys for sure. I think Steve found a hidden gem here and kudos to him for that.
I posted this four months ago in a thread called, "Recruiting Beyond the Lists." I think the theme applies to the recruitment of Christian Jones. (see post below):
As we fans try and speculate over who will make up our next incoming class be aware that for the most part our point of view comes mostly from reading recruiting lists, by seeing talent on video clip highlights or hearing idle gossip. Know however that there are experts whose job it is to find talent, that is overlooked, while combing the country scouting games. It is not an exact science, but it is one of the reasons St. John's has invested so heavily in having a deep and talented coaching staff. They are using their skills, connections and resources to find hidden gems. If you are John Calipari you may be able to limit your recruiting to the ESPN top fifty, but it doesn't work that way for ninety nine percent of the division one schools. So while we guess who will make up the 2012/2013 class, I know that whatever talent we ultimately do find will be a product of hard work and a high level of scouting expertise.
As we fans try and speculate over who will make up our next incoming class be aware that for the most part our point of view comes mostly from reading recruiting lists, by seeing talent on video clip highlights or hearing idle gossip. Know however that there are experts whose job it is to find talent, that is overlooked, while combing the country scouting games. It is not an exact science, but it is one of the reasons St. John's has invested so heavily in having a deep and talented coaching staff. They are using their skills, connections and resources to find hidden gems. If you are John Calipari you may be able to limit your recruiting to the ESPN top fifty, but it doesn't work that way for ninety nine percent of the division one schools. So while we guess who will make up the 2012/2013 class, I know that whatever talent we ultimately do find will be a product of hard work and a high level of scouting expertise.
Amen to that. Every year there are guys in the NCAAs who weren't touted as blue chippers. Now all we need is a couple of good seasons and the sky will be the limit. I love this year's roster and would be shocked if we didn't make some serious noise. Mo benefitted from NYC exposure even on a losing team and that will always be a huge factor in attracting kids. Even Norm managed to find future pros and Lavin will take us over the top. Man, what a difference a coach makes. Good times are upon us at last.
Special? I wouldn't go that far, but I do find it comical that do many are knocking this pickup.
My take from the extremely limited footage: he appears to be pretty stiff compared to guys like Sampson and Sanchez. Great hops...looks like he has a strong build but there is no evidence of him applying it on the court like we saw from Garrret and Harrison. That could just be due to the nature of the highlight tape. If he has a high motor and understands leverage and positioning that would really help his stock.
At worst, he gives us a big, strong kid with a post grad year that can provide depth at four positions in the zone after some learning and another athlete to add to the stable. I like that he signed after we already had Garret, Pointer, Sampson, Gift, Sampson, Sanchez, and Obekpa. It shows he is confident and knows full well he has to earn his burn.
IMO Lavin won't even think of this kid as a SF for three years. He looks like a more skilled Sean Evans.
JackofVirginia
Active member
I sense a Sean Evans clone.
Per Zags....
In his first interview since committing to St. John’s over the weekend, Christian Jones said he’s excited about joining the Johnnies and believes they can get back to the NCAA Tournament.
Jones chose St. John’s over Auburn and Oklahoma State and will suit up for the 2012-13 season.
Asked why he committed, the 6-foot-7, 220-pound Jones out of Arlington, Texas, told SNY.tv, “Their coaching staff is unbelievable. They’re fun, they’re energetic, they get you going. And they’re just overall good. When they’re all together, we all had fun. And then their style of play, they’re fast, they’re uptempo. That’s how I came from. With IMG [Academies], that’s how we was, real fast, they don’t slow the ball down.”
http://www.zagsblog.com/2012/07/02/christian-jones-talks-st-johns-commitment/
In his first interview since committing to St. John’s over the weekend, Christian Jones said he’s excited about joining the Johnnies and believes they can get back to the NCAA Tournament.
Jones chose St. John’s over Auburn and Oklahoma State and will suit up for the 2012-13 season.
Asked why he committed, the 6-foot-7, 220-pound Jones out of Arlington, Texas, told SNY.tv, “Their coaching staff is unbelievable. They’re fun, they’re energetic, they get you going. And they’re just overall good. When they’re all together, we all had fun. And then their style of play, they’re fast, they’re uptempo. That’s how I came from. With IMG [Academies], that’s how we was, real fast, they don’t slow the ball down.”
http://www.zagsblog.com/2012/07/02/christian-jones-talks-st-johns-commitment/
I agree with what a lot of people are saying re: recruit rankings. It's not an exact science, and there are plenty of examples of kids who fly under the radar.
Point 1-
But there's a difference between being under the radar, and not on the radar. Jones has zero stars from Rivals. Now that might turn out to mean less than nothing, he could be a fantastic player. But it could also mean we're looking at a highlight reel and his in game play leaves a lot to be desired.
Point 2-
I trust the staff, but it's not treason to question their decisions. Everyone who's saying that Jones as a 13th man on the roster isn't a problem, and is an uprgrade over what we've had is right. All true. But I'm also confident that there are players of Jones's caliber that play other positions that were/are available. If Lavin wants to use all the 'ships, that's fine, but I think an argument could be made we need a backup pg, and backup C much more than a combo forward.
Point 3-
It's true that not every player on our roster needs to be a top ranked recruit.
But it's also an exaggeration to say no one comes close to that. The majority of the Syracuse and Louisville rosters were at least notable recruits. Many top 150s, and no one that I can find who was below 3 stars. And only 1 or 2 of those. Not coincidentally, those were the best teams in the BE last season, and probably will be again.
Just my 2 cents.
Point 1-
But there's a difference between being under the radar, and not on the radar. Jones has zero stars from Rivals. Now that might turn out to mean less than nothing, he could be a fantastic player. But it could also mean we're looking at a highlight reel and his in game play leaves a lot to be desired.
Point 2-
I trust the staff, but it's not treason to question their decisions. Everyone who's saying that Jones as a 13th man on the roster isn't a problem, and is an uprgrade over what we've had is right. All true. But I'm also confident that there are players of Jones's caliber that play other positions that were/are available. If Lavin wants to use all the 'ships, that's fine, but I think an argument could be made we need a backup pg, and backup C much more than a combo forward.
Point 3-
It's true that not every player on our roster needs to be a top ranked recruit.
But it's also an exaggeration to say no one comes close to that. The majority of the Syracuse and Louisville rosters were at least notable recruits. Many top 150s, and no one that I can find who was below 3 stars. And only 1 or 2 of those. Not coincidentally, those were the best teams in the BE last season, and probably will be again.
Just my 2 cents.