Attendance

[monte]

Johnnyfan this is in response to your post on the UCONN thread. While I do agree that we have more fans overall on Long
Island and Queens, the question is how many more fans who already attend games at CA and MSG, will attend games at UBS? Let's hypothetically say that we're playing well and have a game against marquee team at MSG. Let's say we draw 15k to MSG. Now, move that same game to UBS and I'd say we'd loose at least 5k who would have gone to MSG, between impartial fans, diehard fans (like me) who live in Manhattan, and opposing team fans. Do you really think we can make up those additional 5k fans at UBS?  I don't. I'd say maybe 2K. 

Since we really don't know how UBS would work out, why don't we give it a shot with games that wouldn't project to be a big draw at MSG.  Start with renewing our rivalry with Hofstra and maybe the Butler game. The train station connection to Manhattan should be finished and see how a weekend game draws.

 

Agreed. Kansas was a test case, but there should be more games scheduled there. If you play local teams, IMO it must be part of a doubleheader or tourney. Maybe they can revive the Lapchick  at UBS, or the ECAC holiday festival. 

 

[monte]

Games played at MSG are a necessity, a cost of doing business and being St. John’s.


 

IMO Perceptually if we stop playing games at MSG, it's as though we're throwing in the towel as a program. That is, unless UBS becomes such a huge draw that we can justify it. But I just don't see that happening. 

 

[otis]

If St. John’s stops scheduling at MSG then MSG, a profit making entity, will merely rent it to one or more other college teams.

.

 

[monte]

Friday night I was at dinner at a friends' apartment. Their son, a Georgetown grad and good friend of my daughter, was there along with some of his Georgetown friends. The conversation came up about basketball. FWIW the kid played basketball at Regis, so he's a basketball guy. I asked the kids if they'd gone to any games at MSG or when they're in DC. The response was swift and harsh "go to games? We don't even watch games any more. They suck!". It's the same everywhere. 

 

[room112]

Friday night I was at dinner at a friends' apartment. Their son, a Georgetown grad and good friend of my daughter, was there along with some of his Georgetown friends. The conversation came up about basketball. FWIW the kid played basketball at Regis, so he's a basketball guy. I asked the kids if they'd gone to any games at MSG or when they're in DC. The response was swift and harsh "go to games? We don't even watch games any more. They suck!". It's the same everywhere. 

Just look at the current makeup of St. John's fan base (and the makeup of this board for that matter), and it skews older. I had often observed that the team probably had a hard time developing new fans over the past two decades. Sure, students attend while at school. But without much success for many years, who knows how quickly they lose interest after they graduate.

 

[ManhattAn1]

Simple solution- Move Uconn to campus and play 3 big East games and an OCC game at msg. Exactly what Villanova did at wells Fargo this year.

 

[IDRAFT]

There are 3,000 season ticket holders and 3,000 UCONN fans (easily) made up the 6,600 at the game yesterday. The season ticket holders by definition go no matter where a game is played. 

So SJU needs to play at MSG for 600 people? I don’t consider that much of a broader audience. Sure if they have a top team people will go. They don’t. And in what universe does anyone think they will be in the preseason top 25 next year. Let’s live in reality.

That means by your own standards crappy attendance at MSG again next year. So why play so many games there?

I know folks keep telling me. It looks good on their TV! In my seats, surrounded by empty ones - it’s really crappy.

If they become a top program that’s different. But playing in an empty MSG is not impressive. If they felt like playing there St Francis could do that, it’s not like Dolan wouldn’t rent it to them.

 

[monte]

Friday night I was at dinner at a friends' apartment. Their son, a Georgetown grad and good friend of my daughter, was there along with some of his Georgetown friends. The conversation came up about basketball. FWIW the kid played basketball at Regis, so he's a basketball guy. I asked the kids if they'd gone to any games at MSG or when they're in DC. The response was swift and harsh "go to games? We don't even watch games any more. They suck!". It's the same everywhere. 

Just look at the current makeup of St. John's fan base (and the makeup of this board for that matter), and it skews older. I had often observed that the team probably had a hard time developing new fans over the past two decades. Sure, students attend while at school. But without much success for many years, who knows how quickly they lose interest after they graduate.

Our fan base has always skewed older IMO. We've never had that campus sports spirit. Probably because of our history as a commuter school, and a school for a lot of kids who need to work while in school. Like I did when I was in school. I don't see Shanley and Cragg being able to duplicate the PC or Duke models, because SJU is neither PC nor Duke. We've always relied on non-SJU fans to support our program. Maybe some kind of hybrid. I don't know. Anyhow that's not my job to figure out. Plus they're way smarter then me and that's  what they get paid the big bucks to do.  Like anything else, create a good product and it will sell. 
 

 

[fordham96]

Put a better product on the court and games at MSG become much more exciting and fun even with the opposing team having their fans there as well.

And if you want to schedule major programs in the non-conference obviously you have no choice but MSG.  Duke and Kansas are not playing in Carnesecca.

 

[MarkRedman]

Put a better product on the court and games at MSG become much more exciting and fun even with the opposing team having their fans there as well.

And if you want to schedule major programs in the non-conference obviously you have no choice but MSG.  Duke and Kansas are not playing in Carnesecca.


Absolutely, Fordham
This is New York City
Win and they will come
Lose and they will stay home
 

 

[monte]

If the idea is to prevent opposing team fans from coming, by all means stop playing at MSG and play all our games at CA and UBS. Because few opposing team fans care about visiting Belmont or Jamaica Estates, as they do Manhattan. Now, here's where it gets tricky; how do you replace the lost MSG fans, both opposing team fans and impartial fans, with our fans? Easy at CA. Not so easy at UBS. At the end of the day, opposing team fans are a big source of ticket sales and revenue. 

 

[ADORAZ]

Anyone who wants to drop MSG just needs to look back to 2019- the last time we weren't awful and fans were allowed to attend.

That year we had at least 16K fans per game at MSG for all 4 Big East games. The #13 Nova game (a great upset which I attended), was sold out.

This year there are a LOT of reasons why attendance is this bad (COVID, vaccine cards, poor product, question future, etc), but this is the worst it's been in quite some time. Even during previous "down" years we were bringing in far more than 6K fans against teams like UConn. There wasn't a Thanos snap, those fans would come back if we start winning.

That's not even to mention the massive drop in fan and recruiting interest that leaving MSG would cause. Also, our partners at Fox and MSG (BET) certainly wouldn't be happy. This suggestion is almost as bad as moving down to a worse conference. Totally reactionary. If St. John's feels it'd be better to drop one MSG game then fine, but no more than that.

 

[beast of the east]

[URL]https://www.al.com/news/2021/0...real-study-from-alabama-university-finds.html[/URL]

 

[beast of the east]

What's really crazy is I'm pretty sure more single ticket sales are for the opposing team than for sju, certainly when you subtract student tix sold.  

 

[Johnny Rapper]

What's really crazy is I'm pretty sure more single ticket sales are for the opposing team than for sju, certainly when you subtract student tix sold.  

Agree with you on the fan impact. Even a stacked Duke team last year with no home fans had a mediocre season. Anderson and the Johnnies themselves benefitted from not playing in front of raucous away crowds to produce a very respectable Big East record. 

The reality is though all the gimmicks give aways etc. are not going to get students of a mostly commuter school to come to games, the team will have to win. 

Unliike many schools with dorms and a closed campus, what else can kids do, they are stuck there.  Many of the social activities, parties that kids enjoy flow out from the on campus games. It’s just an advantage  that those schools have and St Johns does not. That’s why kids will need a reason to come back to the campus to watch games and giving away bobble head dolls won’t cut it. 

 

[JohnnyFan]

I appreciate the dialogue on this topic.  At the end of the day, the board is fairly aligned.  No one (including me) wants to stop playing at MSG.  I agree MSG is part of our identity and bailing on this venue is (as Monte mentioned) equivalent to raising the white flag.

I also understand that, until we have a winning program, we rely on opposing teams' fans to reach the necessary attendance threshold in the big arenas.  However, in the meantime, I am a proponent of experimenting with UBS based on it's location.  And, while we are experimenting, let's do it with UConn and Nova. 
 

 

[RedmanMike]

We need to play a few games at MSG - maybe one big OOC game and two BE games.  MSG is part of the St. John's DNA, so we can't bail on it.  But we would be foolish not to play more games at UBS.  I came up from DC for the Kansas game, and it was super easy to get to.  That LIRR shuttle from Jamaica to UBS was basically a St. John's train - nothing but red.  Obviously for an out of town guy like me, a game at MSG is much better - but for a student or for anyone in Queens or LI (where I'm originally from), its no comparison.  Plus, UBS is a great venue.  I really enjoyed it. I think we eventually could have a great home court atmosphere there.

 

[beast of the east]

I appreciate the dialogue on this topic.  At the end of the day, the board is fairly aligned.  No one (including me) wants to stop playing at MSG.  I agree MSG is part of our identity and bailing on this venue is (as Monte mentioned) equivalent to raising the white flag.

I also understand that, until we have a winning program, we rely on opposing teams' fans to reach the necessary attendance threshold in the big arenas.  However, in the meantime, I am a proponent of experimenting with UBS based on it's location.  And, while we are experimenting, let's do it with UConn and Nova. 

 

We need a presence at MSG - perhaps a couple of conference games.   UBS is an interesting proposition.   It is 7 miles from campus and 10 minutes away due to the proximity to parkways.    Providence plays at the Dunk, which is 2.5 miles and 7 minutes by car to the arena.   

Still and all, we must be able to sell enough tickets to make UBS games a worthwhile proposition.    What we don't want to do is leave ticket sales on the table by drawing 5500 at CA, when we could draw 9000 at UBS.

If we start selling 12,000 tickets at UBS, those games could be moved  to MSG.

Your plan sounds solid.

 

[mjmaherjr]

Went to UBS last night for concert. Free parking in emerald if you have a BMW instead of paying the $50 and they have an Amex lounge near section 101 that you get free and a free drink ( $25 margarita actually they gave me 2 ) so right there $100 in my pocket. I just became huge UBS fan

 

[ohiofan]

Went to UBS last night for concert. Free parking in emerald if you have a BMW instead of paying the $50 and they have an Amex lounge near section 101 that you get free and a free drink ( $25 margarita actually they gave me 2 ) so right there $100 in my pocket. I just became huge UBS fan

Just 2?