Attendance

[jackfro]

Apparently it wasn,t only SJU fans who did not come out to the ame. In the past UCON fans were retty well represented. Have a feeling that Covtd and it being Super Bowl Sunday had a lot to do with it.

 

[Knight]

Covid has influenced sports, especially in NY, where vax proof and mask requirements throw a monkey wrench into the works.

 

[beast of the east]

Once we leave MSG we'll never come back. It'll be just another nail in our coffin. And let me just add, it'll tell me all that I need to know about the administration's future plans for our program. May as well move to the MAAC. 

Well, no one with any authority whatsoever is talking about leaving MSG whatsoever.   But I do think SJU will take a long hard look at how important it really is when we don't draw consistently well there and haven't for a very long time.    Other teams who sell more individual game tix at MSG than we do actually can make a stronger case to how important MSG is.

 

[beast of the east]

..  I always loved this quote from Jack Welch

“If the rate of change on the outside exceeds the rate of change on the inside, the end is near.”

Some here have said you can't run a non-profit, especially a mission driven uniiversity like a business, or a high tech start up..but no way around it...it's a business and the basketball program is even more of a business.  Imagine, Think steps ahead of the competition, not try to just get to par... getting to par will still keep us behind.  Make bold moves...communicate heavily along the way.   

When I was an employee of SJU, whenever a pharmacy student failed out (despite the fact that these were overall the smartest kids at SJU), they would immediately schedule an appointment for that kid across campus to discuss a public health major, or anything the student might be interested in.   The goal was to keep the student in the university.   It was then and there that I realized that the university is a business and that every tuition paying student is of value to the revenue of the school.  

SJU has always operated on the presumption that MSG was a critical piece of their basketball revenue generating activities.   I think perhaps this went all the way back to when we were in Brooklyn, and getting to the old MSG that was downtown was a few stops on the subway.   Our students were largely from Brooklyn and NYC, and our fans were also. 

In the early 90s, as soon as we fell out of a permanent place in the national rankings, our attendance at MSG faltered.    Most games don't even half fill the house, and in recent years, the Garden closed off the upper level to ticket sales.    On redmen.com there is an older fan base, one who remembers Ali-Frazier, the Knicks, the Rangers.   World class great teams and events.   SJU as one of those events had cache.

Last week a 4 star recruit visited the Garden for the first time.   His voiced opinion was that he was impressed, but that he didn't know a thing about the Garden before we took him there.   It makes you wonder how important it is to a recruit.

I fully expect that unless we get a bump in ticket sales the days of 4 or more conference games at MSG will become a memory until attendnace warrants it.

For the record, the circus folded because after the removed elephants, the next year's attendance was horrific.   Not enough people cared anymore.   For old time's sake I took my family to the last performance at Nassau Coliseum.   It was sad.
 

 

[ohiofan]

..  I always loved this quote from Jack Welch

“If the rate of change on the outside exceeds the rate of change on the inside, the end is near.”

Some here have said you can't run a non-profit, especially a mission driven uniiversity like a business, or a high tech start up..but no way around it...it's a business and the basketball program is even more of a business.  Imagine, Think steps ahead of the competition, not try to just get to par... getting to par will still keep us behind.  Make bold moves...communicate heavily along the way.   

When I was an employee of SJU, whenever a pharmacy student failed out (despite the fact that these were overall the smartest kids at SJU), they would immediately schedule an appointment for that kid across campus to discuss a public health major, or anything the student might be interested in.   The goal was to keep the student in the university.   It was then and there that I realized that the university is a business and that every tuition paying student is of value to the revenue of the school.  

SJU has always operated on the presumption that MSG was a critical piece of their basketball revenue generating activities.   I think perhaps this went all the way back to when we were in Brooklyn, and getting to the old MSG that was downtown was a few stops on the subway.   Our students were largely from Brooklyn and NYC, and our fans were also. 

In the early 90s, as soon as we fell out of a permanent place in the national rankings, our attendance at MSG faltered.    Most games don't even half fill the house, and in recent years, the Garden closed off the upper level to ticket sales.    On redmen.com there is an older fan base, one who remembers Ali-Frazier, the Knicks, the Rangers.   World class great teams and events.   SJU as one of those events had cache.

Last week a 4 star recruit visited the Garden for the first time.   His voiced opinion was that he was impressed, but that he didn't know a thing about the Garden before we took him there.   It makes you wonder how important it is to a recruit.

I fully expect that unless we get a bump in ticket sales the days of 4 or more conference games at MSG will become a memory until attendnace warrants it.

For the record, the circus folded because after the removed elephants, the next year's attendance was horrific.   Not enough people cared anymore.   For old time's sake I took my family to the last performance at Nassau Coliseum.   It was sad.

 

But, the circus still had sheep. They should have done quite quite well in Connecticut (and probably Rhode Island).  

 

[monte]

Once we leave MSG we'll never come back. It'll be just another nail in our coffin. And let me just add, it'll tell me all that I need to know about the administration's future plans for our program. May as well move to the MAAC. 

Well, no one with any authority whatsoever is talking about leaving MSG whatsoever.   But I do think SJU will take a long hard look at how important it really is when we don't draw consistently well there and haven't for a very long time.    Other teams who sell more individual game tix at MSG than we do actually can make a stronger case to how important MSG is.

Glad to hear that. The MSG brand is a huge part of the Big East brand. The other teams we play there have been, at least over the past 2 decades, more successful then us. So not surprising teams like UCONN and Nova are drawing as many fans as we are. 

 

[NCJohnnie]

I'd rather see Stanley in than Nyiwe right now. Wheeler just picked up his 3rd.

 

[room112]

Once we leave MSG we'll never come back. It'll be just another nail in our coffin. And let me just add, it'll tell me all that I need to know about the administration's future plans for our program. May as well move to the MAAC. 

Well, no one with any authority whatsoever is talking about leaving MSG whatsoever.   But I do think SJU will take a long hard look at how important it really is when we don't draw consistently well there and haven't for a very long time.    Other teams who sell more individual game tix at MSG than we do actually can make a stronger case to how important MSG is.

Glad to hear that. The MSG brand is a huge part of the Big East brand. The other teams we play there have been, at least over the past 2 decades, more successful then us. So not surprising teams like UCONN and Nova are drawing as many fans as we are. 

Also have to keep in mind about UConn fans. They are all over the state of Connecticut. So for many fans in Southwest Connecticut (Fairfield county), it's easier to jump on the Metro North and see the team at MSG than to trek up to Hartford (who wants to go to Hartford??) or the campus. Plus a day in NYC is a treat for many who don't live here. Probably adds to the excitement.

 

[ManhattAn1]

I would move to 3 games at MSG next year  and move uconn to Carnesecca 

 

[RedStormNC]

We can't bail on MSG...at least yet.

I'm not sure who in Athletic dept is responsible for generating ticket demand (beyond season ticket holders) or if demand generation is outsourced to 3rd party... or how the #'s work, but if we have a 10K / $400-500K ?? per game committment at MSG, I wonder if we dropped ticket prices could we considerably generate more sales if the right casual fans were targeted....

still may need to give some away at no cost,  but offer great deals to corporations so they can pass along as "employee discount program benefits", all local child sports leagues, local unions, city employees etc. 

Might still cost us, but worth trying to fill the place above 10-15K, a bit before scaling back due to the P&L.  
 

 

[bamafan]

Well at least we had good attendance tonight with just over 10,000 which was 99% of capacity. /media/kunena/emoticons/smile.png

 

[GardenCity62]

The younger posters may not be aware how important the MSG  SJU connection was back when SJU was considered a top five program. In the five seasons of 1948 to  l953 SJU played 72 games at MSG. Just about every college team wanted to come to NY.
Another interesting point was the top level of competition. In a nine game home stand in 51 SJU played Kan, Holy Cross, Utah, Kentucky, Temple, San Fran, CCNY, Syr and Bradley. Not a NJIT in the lot. Then the point shaving scandal took effect and many schools blamed MSG for the scandal and SJU basically started its fall.

 

[JohnnyFan]

If you haven't read this whole thread, here's the cliff notes......

"I think we should explore UBS Arena some more"
"But we can't leave MSG, it will ruin the program"
"We won't leave MSG, just explore a conference game or two at UBS"
"But what about our history and our brand"
"We're not leaving MSG, just exploring a conference game or two at UBS"
"I won't be a fan anymore if we abandon the Garden"
"Nobody is suggesting we abandon the Garden"
"If we're leaving the Garden then we might as well drop down to the MAAC"
"But...WE'RE NOT LEAVING THE GARDEN!"
 

 

[beast of the east]

The younger posters may not be aware how important the MSG  SJU connection was back when SJU was considered a top five program. In the five seasons of 1948 to  l953 SJU played 72 games at MSG. Just about every college team wanted to come to NY.
Another interesting point was the top level of competition. In a nine game home stand in 51 SJU played Kan, Holy Cross, Utah, Kentucky, Temple, San Fran, CCNY, Syr and Bradley. Not a NJIT in the lot. Then the point shaving scandal took effect and many schools blamed MSG for the scandal and SJU basically started its fall.

 

Did we even have a home arena when we were in Brooklyn?    How far was our campus to the old MSG at that point?

 

[RedmanMike]

If you haven't read this whole thread, here's the cliff notes......

"I think we should explore UBS Arena some more"
"But we can't leave MSG, it will ruin the program"
"We won't leave MSG, just explore a conference game or two at UBS"
"But what about our history and our brand"
"We're not leaving MSG, just exploring a conference game or two at UBS"
"I won't be a fan anymore if we abandon the Garden"
"Nobody is suggesting we abandon the Garden"
"If we're leaving the Garden then we might as well drop down to the MAAC"
"But...WE'RE NOT LEAVING THE GARDEN!"

Excellent summary!
 

 

[GardenCity62]

Prior to CA SJU had no home arena. They were like nomads traveling to. De Gray gym which I know nothing about or local high schools to practice, The players would jump into cars and drive to Flushing hs Van Buren or Jamaica high when they moved to hilcrest. Sometimes they would travel to MSG but I don’t think they even had a barbell and this was a top program.

 

[beast of the east]

Prior to CA SJU had no home arena. They were like nomads traveling to. De Gray gym which I know nothing about or local high schools to practice, The players would jump into cars and drive to Flushing hs Van Buren or Jamaica high when they moved to hilcrest. Sometimes they would travel to MSG but I don’t think they even had a barbell and this was a top program.

Thanks for a great historical. Yes no barbells, and shorter pudgier white guys shooting set shots. Different era.

Don't want that to read as a negative response.   No one here ever speaks about the Brooklyn campus or the team at that point.   Thanks for adding that.

 

[GardenCity62]

De Gray gym was located near the Brooklyn campus and SJU practiced there and played a few cupcakes there each season until the Hillcrest campus opened in the late fifties.
We complain about the facilities now but how bizarre is SJU in 1960 using  one of the local high schools near Hillcrest to practice for the next nights game vs the Jerry Lucas, John Havilchek Ohio State team which was the top team in the country. I think SJU was number three, Tickets were impossible to get and Leroy Ellis , Kevin Loughery and Tony Jackson had to sit in the stands waiting for the high school team to finish practice before they could take the floor. 

 

[ADORAZ]

If you haven't read this whole thread, here's the cliff notes......

"I think we should explore UBS Arena some more"
"But we can't leave MSG, it will ruin the program"
"We won't leave MSG, just explore a conference game or two at UBS"
"But what about our history and our brand"
"We're not leaving MSG, just exploring a conference game or two at UBS"
"I won't be a fan anymore if we abandon the Garden"
"Nobody is suggesting we abandon the Garden"
"If we're leaving the Garden then we might as well drop down to the MAAC"
"But...WE'RE NOT LEAVING THE GARDEN!"


 

I want this to be the case, but there are some fans who do want to leave the Garden. This Twitter post is a bit vague in terms of abandoning 100% of our Garden games, but it does imply to want to schedule at least some games at a renovated CA instead of MSG (despite how few MSG games we are currently playing).

https://twitter.com/JohnniesTape/status/1494731591352004612

I'm not saying that Tweet is a threat that we'd leave MSG or anything, and obviously a renovated CA is years off, but I do think that a sizable portion of our fanbase unfortunately doesn't see the value in MSG. 33 likes in an hour is a lot for a random St. John's Twitter post and could represent how many St. John's fans actually feel. Redmen does skew older and may be bigger fans of MSG than the average Twitter user.

That said, I hope and trust St. John's admin sees the value in MSG. I just think it's ridiculous for people to blame MSG when it's clear there are many, many other issues holding us back. Like do people really think getting a couple extra Vegas points on 4-5 games per year is going to be the difference in us being relevant vs irrelevant? Especially when so many recruits cite MSG as one of the reasons for their commitment? In that case we may be taking 4 points off spreads for our entire 32 game schedule. The logic just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[jackfro]

Prior to the '61-'62 season we played anywhere from 6 to 8 games at MSG not including many games in the Holiday Festival and NIT each year which raised the total # of games to about 13 to 15 games a year. MSG was our home court and was approximately 10 subway stops from the Brooklyn campus.