Around the Big East 19/20

[quote="Mike Zaun" post=373865]No doubt Powell is a great player. He is everything we wished Ponds would've been and more. No games off...the bigger the moment, the better he played. Very consistent scorer. His jump shot doesn't disappear some games. That being said, it will be really really interesting to see how SHU does without him. They've relied heavily on him for 4 years and I don't see anyone else guard wise anywhere near as dominant and consistent. This is why I think Willard has been overrated a bit. Remember how this all started...with him getting Whitehead through shady means then the success all came from that. If SHU can still be a very good team even after Powell then I'll be very impressed but not expecting it. We must remember that Seton Hall is our direct rival geographically. If we want to own the NYC metro area, we need to be better than Rutgers and Seton Hall.[/quote]

Goalpost, Moved.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=373865]No doubt Powell is a great player. He is everything we wished Ponds would've been and more. No games off...the bigger the moment, the better he played. Very consistent scorer. His jump shot doesn't disappear some games. That being said, it will be really really interesting to see how SHU does without him. They've relied heavily on him for 4 years and I don't see anyone else guard wise anywhere near as dominant and consistent. This is why I think Willard has been overrated a bit. Remember how this all started...with him getting Whitehead through shady means then the success all came from that. If SHU can still be a very good team even after Powell then I'll be very impressed but not expecting it. We must remember that Seton Hall is our direct rival geographically. If we want to own the NYC metro area, we need to be better than Rutgers and Seton Hall.[/quote]


Your always mentioning coaches need players in order to succeed. Especially when talking about SJU. But when talking about Willard he's overrated because he had Whitehead and Powell. Huh? You really goin in circles my man.
 
Ed Morrow is no longer with the Marquette basketball program, the school announced. Morrow averaged 3.4 PPG and 3.4 RPG.
Evan Daniels
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=373865]No doubt Powell is a great player. He is everything we wished Ponds would've been and more. No games off...the bigger the moment, the better he played. Very consistent scorer. His jump shot doesn't disappear some games. That being said, it will be really really interesting to see how SHU does without him. They've relied heavily on him for 4 years and I don't see anyone else guard wise anywhere near as dominant and consistent. This is why I think Willard has been overrated a bit. Remember how this all started...with him getting Whitehead through shady means then the success all came from that. If SHU can still be a very good team even after Powell then I'll be very impressed but not expecting it. We must remember that Seton Hall is our direct rival geographically. If we want to own the NYC metro area, we need to be better than Rutgers and Seton Hall.[/quote]

Just curious.....how long does Willard have to do well at Seton Hall before we stop attributing it all to the Whitehead fiasco?

By the way, I happen to know that it took a lot of work to keep that team (Carrington, Whitehead, Delgado and Rodriguez) on the straight and narrow while they were underclassmen. A lot of in fighting with Sterling Gibbs and Jared Sina. Willard navigated it very well.

Maybe the guy is just a good coach and a formidable opponent?
 
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[quote="Adam" post=373858]I know that a lot of people here dislike Hall, but personally I'd rather they win the Big East than Nova (yet again). I'm personally rooting for Hall to get a 1/2 seed. I think they have a really good shot at doing that.[/quote]

I agree Adam. It is the same reason I am rooting for Chiefs in the Super Bowl. Lets see someone NEW win for once, gives struggling fan bases like us a little hope that maybe one day our time will come
 
how many times do we have to see up close and personal that Willard is a good coach before we believe it?

How about last weekend. Him coming out in the second half pressing us changed that game completely. He has demonstrated time and time again he is a good coach.

We literally just witnessed them beat Maryland without Powell. So I think he will be alright in the future.
 
Glad to be in the minority here. All I'm saying is that they've been very lucky. Willard's shadiness got him Whitehead and that's a fact. The reason I bring that up is because that jump started the program again and since then they never looked back. It kinda proves you may need to muck it up a bit if you want to win at a major level consistently. Plus didn't they tamper with Thompson while he was still at Cuse? They are willing to do what it takes. Not sure we are.

So they get Whitehead and then they get Powell who turned out to be one of the best players SHU has ever had. He scores practically 30 PPG most nights and if that's not putting your team on your back in college I don't know what is. They were lucky enough that he stayed all 4 years too. I'm sure Willard gets some credit for all this, but not all of it. They've had breaks and they've mucked it up. I just don't see who could ever come close to that production after he leaves. Would be like asking for another Mullin to come through our doors practically. I know many of you will immediately say "Gill", and he's a great big but bigs can't carry the scoring load for a team and are prone to injury at least more so than guards. Idk why some are saying I moved the goal post...I still think they go out early in the NCAA's like always because that's all they've done. And I still think after Powell is gone they will be setback more than you'd think. And by the way, we beat #16 Zona without Heron and that meant nothing. So don't really care about their Maryland example. Many forget just how hot Willard's seat was just a handful of years ago before Powell became Michael Jordan. SHU fanbase was calling for his head from every direction. The way they shut me up for good about SHU is if they make at least the Sweet 16 and then continue to succeed without Powell. Not saying top 10 but making tourneys regularly.
 
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Geez....pretty sure some will never give Willard credit. The guy has had his team in the NCAA tournament four years in a row. It's been over three decades since SJUBB has done that.

I remember when it was suggested that Ed Cooley would be nothing without Marshawn Brooks. Then the narrative became he would be nothing without Bryce Cotton. I mean, these guys have had some sustained success. Give it up and tip your cap. They are good for the conference.
 
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[quote="Mike Zaun" post=373942]Glad to be in the minority here. All I'm saying is that they've been very lucky. Willard's shadiness got him Whitehead and that's a fact. The reason I bring that up is because that jump started the program again and since then they never looked back. It kinda proves you may need to muck it up a bit if you want to win at a major level consistently. Plus didn't they tamper with Thompson while he was still at Cuse? They are willing to do what it takes. Not sure we are.

So they get Whitehead and then they get Powell who turned out to be one of the best players SHU has ever had. He scores practically 30 PPG most nights and if that's not putting your team on your back in college I don't know what is. They were lucky enough that he stayed all 4 years too. I'm sure Willard gets some credit for all this, but not all of it. They've had breaks and they've mucked it up. I just don't see who could ever come close to that production after he leaves. Would be like asking for another Mullin to come through our doors practically. I know many of you will immediately say "Gill", and he's a great big but bigs can't carry the scoring load for a team and are prone to injury at least more so than guards. Idk why some are saying I moved the goal post...I still think they go out early in the NCAA's like always because that's all they've done. And I still think after Powell is gone they will be setback more than you'd think. And by the way, we beat #16 Zona without Heron and that meant nothing. So don't really care about their Maryland example. Many forget just how hot Willard's seat was just a handful of years ago before Powell became Michael Jordan. SHU fanbase was calling for his head from every direction. The way they shut me up for good about SHU is if they make at least the Sweet 16 and then continue to succeed without Powell. Not saying top 10 but making tourneys regularly.[/quote]


In this post, you (amazingly) managed to...


1. Prove there are still people here bent out of shape over the Whitehead thing. He didn’t do anything illegal. It sucked at the time because IW was close to going St. John’s. But we gotta get over it. Whitehead is years removed from his Hall tenure, we can’t harp on this forever.

2. Make the most glaring false equivalency of all time comparing us beating zona with no heron to them beating Maryland without Powell. Powell’s one of the best players in the country. Heron is, well he’s heron. It’s not nearly the same. You go on in this same post to make it sound like seton hall is just all Myles Powell that’s all they have but yet you minimize a huge win they got without him by comparing it to us nabbing a win over a worse team without a guy who has played like ass for most of the season. Nice

3. Also, this isn’t just you who does this, but can the sports world please stop with the lazy “coach (x) wouldn’t be anything without player (y)”. Guess what? Coaches need great players to succeed. So Jim Boeheim, Take credit from him for his title, he had Melo. Coach K stinks cause he had numerous first round picks on a ton of his good teams. Jay wright had a freaking college dream team on his last title team. Brunson, Bridges, paschall, spellman, DiVincenzo. To try and minimize willards success just because he has Powell is such a lazy take. Cause guess what? When seton hall is still good next year, they’ll have some player averaging 20 PPG I’m sure... and you’ll move the goalposts once again and say willards lucky he has this guy playing so well for him. Oh yea, about goalposts

4. You claim you never moved the goalposts but you did say this when seton hall was struggling earlier this season.

“This was an overrated SHU team from the start and couldn't win a close game against real top 15 teams.”

Damn, so an overrated seton hall team is now knocking on the door of being a 2 seed in the NCAA tournament? Shit, that’s gotta be good coaching right? If an overrated team keeps winning it must be coaching doing a great job.

You’ve already started talking next year and how they will setback, now that’s my fav part of your post. When you take the leap of faith that seton hall won’t be as great as they are now with the best college player on the planet. Love that

I have to admit zaun. You have made the future seton hall NCAA games in March must watch games for me. Cause I need the post in here where you eat crow. I need it

But I can see it now, clear as day. Powell is gonna average like 30 in the tournament and get them to the second weekend and we are gonna see you post... “clearly this is just Powell putting on his cape, don’t know how much credit Willard deserves”.

That post might be as enjoyable as the crow one. Either way I can’t wait
 
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[quote="Jack Williams" post=373964][quote="Mike Zaun" post=373942]Glad to be in the minority here. All I'm saying is that they've been very lucky. Willard's shadiness got him Whitehead and that's a fact. The reason I bring that up is because that jump started the program again and since then they never looked back. It kinda proves you may need to muck it up a bit if you want to win at a major level consistently. Plus didn't they tamper with Thompson while he was still at Cuse? They are willing to do what it takes. Not sure we are.

So they get Whitehead and then they get Powell who turned out to be one of the best players SHU has ever had. He scores practically 30 PPG most nights and if that's not putting your team on your back in college I don't know what is. They were lucky enough that he stayed all 4 years too. I'm sure Willard gets some credit for all this, but not all of it. They've had breaks and they've mucked it up. I just don't see who could ever come close to that production after he leaves. Would be like asking for another Mullin to come through our doors practically. I know many of you will immediately say "Gill", and he's a great big but bigs can't carry the scoring load for a team and are prone to injury at least more so than guards. Idk why some are saying I moved the goal post...I still think they go out early in the NCAA's like always because that's all they've done. And I still think after Powell is gone they will be setback more than you'd think. And by the way, we beat #16 Zona without Heron and that meant nothing. So don't really care about their Maryland example. Many forget just how hot Willard's seat was just a handful of years ago before Powell became Michael Jordan. SHU fanbase was calling for his head from every direction. The way they shut me up for good about SHU is if they make at least the Sweet 16 and then continue to succeed without Powell. Not saying top 10 but making tourneys regularly.[/quote]


In this post, you (amazingly) managed to...


1. Prove there are still people here bent out of shape over the Whitehead thing. He didn’t do anything illegal. It sucked at the time because IW was close to going St. John’s. But we gotta get over it. Whitehead is years removed from his Hall tenure, we can’t harp on this forever.

2. Make the most glaring false equivalency of all time comparing us beating zona with no heron to them beating Maryland without Powell. Powell’s one of the best players in the country. Heron is, well he’s heron. It’s not nearly the same. You go on in this same post to make it sound like seton hall is just all Myles Powell that’s all they have but yet you minimize a huge win they got without him by comparing it to us nabbing a win over a worse team without a guy who has played like ass for most of the season. Nice

3. Also, this isn’t just you who does this, but can the sports world please stop with the lazy “coach (x) wouldn’t be anything without player (y)”. Guess what? Coaches need great players to succeed. So Jim Boeheim, Take credit from him for his title, he had Melo. Coach K stinks cause he had numerous first round picks on a ton of his good teams. Jay wright had a freaking college dream team on his last title team. Brunson, Bridges, paschall, spellman, DiVincenzo. To try and minimize willards success just because he has Powell is such a lazy take. Cause guess what? When seton hall is still good next year, they’ll have some player averaging 20 PPG I’m sure... and you’ll move the goalposts once again and say willards lucky he has this guy playing so well for him. Oh yea, about goalposts

4. You claim you never moved the goalposts but you did say this when seton hall was struggling earlier this season.

“This was an overrated SHU team from the start and couldn't win a close game against real top 15 teams.”

Damn, so an overrated seton hall team is now knocking on the door of being a 2 seed in the NCAA tournament? Shit, that’s gotta be good coaching right? If an overrated team keeps winning it must be coaching doing a great job.

You’ve already started talking next year and how they will setback, now that’s my fav part of your post. When you take the leap of faith that seton hall won’t be as great as they are now with the best college player on the planet. Love that

I have to admit zaun. You have made the future seton hall NCAA games in March must watch games for me. Cause I need the post in here where you eat crow. I need it

But I can see it now, clear as day. Powell is gonna average like 30 in the tournament and get them to the second weekend and we are gonna see you post... “clearly this is just Powell putting on his cape, don’t know how much credit Willard deserves”.

That post might be as enjoyable as the crow one. Either way I can’t wait[/quote]

You should consider being a surgeon.
 
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[quote="Mike Zaun" post=373942]Glad to be in the minority here. All I'm saying is that they've been very lucky. Willard's shadiness got him Whitehead and that's a fact. The reason I bring that up is because that jump started the program again and since then they never looked back. It kinda proves you may need to muck it up a bit if you want to win at a major level consistently. Plus didn't they tamper with Thompson while he was still at Cuse? They are willing to do what it takes. Not sure we are.

So they get Whitehead and then they get Powell who turned out to be one of the best players SHU has ever had. He scores practically 30 PPG most nights and if that's not putting your team on your back in college I don't know what is. They were lucky enough that he stayed all 4 years too. I'm sure Willard gets some credit for all this, but not all of it. They've had breaks and they've mucked it up. I just don't see who could ever come close to that production after he leaves. Would be like asking for another Mullin to come through our doors practically. I know many of you will immediately say "Gill", and he's a great big but bigs can't carry the scoring load for a team and are prone to injury at least more so than guards. Idk why some are saying I moved the goal post...I still think they go out early in the NCAA's like always because that's all they've done. And I still think after Powell is gone they will be setback more than you'd think. And by the way, we beat #16 Zona without Heron and that meant nothing. So don't really care about their Maryland example. Many forget just how hot Willard's seat was just a handful of years ago before Powell became Michael Jordan. SHU fanbase was calling for his head from every direction. The way they shut me up for good about SHU is if they make at least the Sweet 16 and then continue to succeed without Powell. Not saying top 10 but making tourneys regularly.[/quote]

Please give it a rest. I can give you a list of coaches starting with Dean Smith (he was hung in effigy), Coach K .(Check out on ESPN, ACC Channel or possibly On- Demand "The Class That Save Coach K") or another Seton Hall coach, P.J. Carlesimo (in his five seasons he, he was under 500 in his first four and only 1 game above in his fifth and, was under 500 in the BE in all five) who were on the verge of getting fired and were able to turn the tide, be it because of a class of players who matured and grew together, one player or things just coming together. It happens.

People so much want to tear down folks (he got lucky or if it wasn't for this), why not just give credit where it is due and move on otherwise you'll be looking for another excuse if they stay where they are after Powell leaves. He has built a program something we are praying Anderson will do for us.
 
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Just to add, we went after Whitehead hard initially but stopped somewhere around September of his Senior Year. Whitehead was quoted in a article as saying he didn't know why we stopped. Probably because we didn't want Tiny to come. He gave us one last chance as the Hall had already agreed to bring Tiny on but wanted to see if we would do the same. We wouldn't and he wound up a the Hall. Now there were several posters on this Board then, some of whom are still here but might not be as vocal who would have had no problem taking on Tiny at the expense of an Assistant Coach not named Childs. There are also several on this Board now who wanted to bring in Gorman and an AC because of the players he had with his AAU team.

Agree with the move or not, it probably helped save his job as he was definitely on the hot seat, but then again, even without Whitehead (who was the last to sign), he had a pretty good recruiting class that did well with and without Whitehead and did well with them.
 
Zaun is repetitive. But he is entitled to his opinion....Regarding Whitehead, not only did it save Willards job , but if we got him, probably would have saved Lavin job.
 
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This is the type of season where Seton Hall could win it all. Zaun's head will explode if that happens.:lol:
 
Wow......great game at Hinkle. Now going to overtime.

Butler played from behind all game long against Marquette. Then, with about 5 minutes left, Kamar Baldwin put on his superhero cape. Kid is a tremendous college player.
 
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[quote="Duke of Earlington" post=374014]Baldwin making every shot. Howard missing every shot. Baldwin outplayed howard tonight by a wide margian.[/quote]

I mean.....Baldwin was pretty much Michael Jordan in the second half.
 
Baldwin scored 19 points in the last 2 minutes of regulation + overtime.

[attachment=1273]Screenshot.png[/attachment]
 
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