Around the Big East 18/19

[quote="Class of 72" post=308407][quote="NCJohnnie" post=308354]We're not Nova now, nor should anyone expect us to be; just crazy imho.[/quote]

The point that the conoscenti here seem to have missed in my comment about Villanova is that except for one freaking position on the front line is that we ARE as good as Villanova NOW. I wouldn't even be surprised if we sweep them if Keita is 100 % and makes a difference.
Now, when you say "nor should anyone expect us to be; just crazy", that in itself is crazy. We, me, the local fans, the donors and I'm pretty sure Mully expect St. John's, in the basketball sense, to be as good as Villanova. If going into year 5 some of you persist with a second class mentality with regards to St. John's basketball everyone should just change their screen names to No Hope 1, No Hope 2, No Hope 3, etc.[/quote]

Sure we all want to be Villanova level but I don’t think anyone should reasonably expect that.

And I don’t think that’s a loser mentality that’s instilled in our program and in our fans, I just think it’s more about Villanova being great than us being so bad. 2 championships in the last 3 years. Vs no tournament wins in the last 18 years? That’s crazy.

It’s like if Ryan Tannehill, consistently average and honestly sometimes below average Quarterback, woke up and said “hey I expect to be as good as Tom Brady”. You can expect it and hope for it, but is it realistic?

At the same time, if the QB just focuses on smaller goals, like maybe winning a playoff game, success can be gained through that way. We don’t have to be anywhere Villanova to achieve success, I think that is important to recognize here. While maybe a long term, more ultimate goal for the program is reaching Villanova status, I think we should just try to do some smaller things first. Maybe win a big east tournament. It’s in our stadium. Maybe win a tournament game. Maybe make it into the second weekend one of these years. Maybe string together a couple consistently good seasons in a row.

Picture a staircase, we are at the bottom and nova is at the top. We can’t just jump up to the top of the stairs in one swift movement. We have to get there by making smaller strides, little by little.

As for us vs nova this season. We are probably a little better this year, I agree. But this is our best team in a long time. And Nova’s worst team in a long time. That alone tells you what you need to know.
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=308608]Maryland, which hosts Seton Hall Saturday, finished 27th in today's AP Top 25 balloting. St. John's inches up to 29th.
Jerry Carino

Marquette #20 & Nova out, full poll
https://collegebasketball.ap.org/poll[/quote]

12-0 and unranked. Probably fair but still will look odd coming from power conference.
 
[quote="we are sju" post=308612][quote="Paultzman" post=308608]Maryland, which hosts Seton Hall Saturday, finished 27th in today's AP Top 25 balloting. St. John's inches up to 29th.
Jerry Carino

Marquette #20 & Nova out, full poll
https://collegebasketball.ap.org/poll[/quote]

12-0 and unranked. Probably fair but still will look odd coming from power conference.[/quote]

That's precisely the point, the fact that they are undefeated and play in a Power 5+BE conference and are STIL not ranked is a direct result of the schedule. I actually think it is more than just the schedule it is the fact that they have struggled to bury some bad opponents. My guess is if they had buried Cal, Bowling Green, MD Eastern Shore etc by a ton of points and looked good doing it then they would probably be ranked at this point in the 20-25 range even with the same schedule. If you are going to play a soft schedule and go undefeated you need to earn some beauty points on the way and far too many times against very bad teams they have looked disinterested and sloppy.
 
[quote="NCJohnnie" post=308615]Win our next three and we will be ranked in all the polls.[/quote]


And that 3rd game would be the ‘charm’.
It’s for real: a BEC game away at the Hall.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=308617][quote="we are sju" post=308612][quote="Paultzman" post=308608]Maryland, which hosts Seton Hall Saturday, finished 27th in today's AP Top 25 balloting. St. John's inches up to 29th.
Jerry Carino

Marquette #20 & Nova out, full poll
https://collegebasketball.ap.org/poll[/quote]

12-0 and unranked. Probably fair but still will look odd coming from power conference.[/quote]

That's precisely the point, the fact that they are undefeated and play in a Power 5+BE conference and are STIL not ranked is a direct result of the schedule. I actually think it is more than just the schedule it is the fact that they have struggled to bury some bad opponents. My guess is if they had buried Cal, Bowling Green, MD Eastern Shore etc by a ton of points and looked good doing it then they would probably be ranked at this point in the 20-25 range even with the same schedule. If you are going to play a soft schedule and go undefeated you need to earn some beauty points on the way and far too many times against very bad teams they have looked disinterested and sloppy.[/quote]

I do think getting off to a good record even if not recognized by polls was very important for Ponds and the team. Not to mention Mullin obviously. I also think the silver lining in struggling with the weaker teams is it does prepare us better than if we would have wiped everyone out early on. If my memory serves the year Felipe and Zendon got off to 7-0 or whatever they played weak schedule beat the teams handily then did not know what to do once tougher games began. Of course if we still defend lazily once BE starts then we will struggle and lose and 12-0 start will have been meaningless.
In short I do think the good start gives team confidence while still having some experience with close games. That is my hope anyway.
 
At this point we're so close to Big East play, the ranking doesn't matter. Just keep winning. We'll be ranked if we beat Hall. Two weeks away.

As I've said, I rather play these mid majors without a ranking (major target) attached to our name. We're 10-0. Would we have lost the past couple months had we been ranked? Who knows. I just know we wouldn't be better than 10-0.
 
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How the hell is Furman and Kentucky ranked and we're not? Furman's best and only good win is vs. unranked overrated Villanova, and Kentucky has two losses, and it's best win is vs Winthrop at home. The voting in these things are such a joke.
 
[quote="Jack Williams" post=308560][quote="Class of 72" post=308407][quote="NCJohnnie" post=308354]We're not Nova now, nor should anyone expect us to be; just crazy imho.[/quote]

The point that the conoscenti here seem to have missed in my comment about Villanova is that except for one freaking position on the front line is that we ARE as good as Villanova NOW. I wouldn't even be surprised if we sweep them if Keita is 100 % and makes a difference.
Now, when you say "nor should anyone expect us to be; just crazy", that in itself is crazy. We, me, the local fans, the donors and I'm pretty sure Mully expect St. John's, in the basketball sense, to be as good as Villanova. If going into year 5 some of you persist with a second class mentality with regards to St. John's basketball everyone should just change their screen names to No Hope 1, No Hope 2, No Hope 3, etc.[/quote]

Sure we all want to be Villanova level but I don’t think anyone should reasonably expect that.

And I don’t think that’s a loser mentality that’s instilled in our program and in our fans, I just think it’s more about Villanova being great than us being so bad. 2 championships in the last 3 years. Vs no tournament wins in the last 18 years? That’s crazy.

It’s like if Ryan Tannehill, consistently average and honestly sometimes below average Quarterback, woke up and said “hey I expect to be as good as Tom Brady”. You can expect it and hope for it, but is it realistic?

At the same time, if the QB just focuses on smaller goals, like maybe winning a playoff game, success can be gained through that way. We don’t have to be anywhere Villanova to achieve success, I think that is important to recognize here. While maybe a long term, more ultimate goal for the program is reaching Villanova status, I think we should just try to do some smaller things first. Maybe win a big east tournament. It’s in our stadium. Maybe win a tournament game. Maybe make it into the second weekend one of these years. Maybe string together a couple consistently good seasons in a row.

Picture a staircase, we are at the bottom and nova is at the top. We can’t just jump up to the top of the stairs in one swift movement. We have to get there by making smaller strides, little by little.

As for us vs nova this season. We are probably a little better this year, I agree. But this is our best team in a long time. And Nova’s worst team in a long time. That alone tells you what you need to know.[/quote]

Here's what you need to know Jack - some here will make it seem like Villanova has been the Duke of the East but their dominant success is rather recent against St. John's. You need to look no further than the moronic hiring decisions since the great Lou Carnessecca retired. Mahoney could recruit but couldn't coach. Fraschilla saw the job merely as a stepping stone. Norm Roberts couldn't bring in the players nor coach. We hired an ESPN celebrity after not having coached for 6 years. We hire an NBA Hall of Fame player that never coached girls CYO.
Now look at the Villanova coaching tree.
BTW, here is the Villanova record since 1950 against St. John's. It has only been in the last 10 years that Villanova has caught up to St. John's. As they say, the record doesn't lie.

St. John's (NY) 95 games 49 (V) 46(SJ) .516
 
CBS put Indiana, Maryland and Oklahoma in the top 25. Nova and Cuse dropped out.

The new teams all have 1 or 2 losses vs top 25 teams.
 
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Impressed by Oklahoma so far. Lon Kruger is a great coach and after losing Trae Young he seems to have a really solid team.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=308627]Impressed by Oklahoma so far. Lon Kruger is a great coach and after losing Trae Young he seems to have a really solid team.[/quote]

Oklahoma might be better this year without Trae Young because they have a much more balanced offense not totally dependent on one player. Four of five different players could possibly lead them in scoring on any given night. Brady Manek is a player
 
We're #29 in the ap, and #28 in coaches poll

I'm thinking if we win both this week, we'll get to #26 in the ap, and might actually crack the top25 in the coaches poll.
The B.E. has an opportunity for some good wins tomorrow night:
X @ Mizzou and Creighton @ Oklahoma
Lets sweep, gotta make up for this past weekend.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=308625][quote="Jack Williams" post=308560][quote="Class of 72" post=308407][quote="NCJohnnie" post=308354]We're not Nova now, nor should anyone expect us to be; just crazy imho.[/quote]

The point that the conoscenti here seem to have missed in my comment about Villanova is that except for one freaking position on the front line is that we ARE as good as Villanova NOW. I wouldn't even be surprised if we sweep them if Keita is 100 % and makes a difference.
Now, when you say "nor should anyone expect us to be; just crazy", that in itself is crazy. We, me, the local fans, the donors and I'm pretty sure Mully expect St. John's, in the basketball sense, to be as good as Villanova. If going into year 5 some of you persist with a second class mentality with regards to St. John's basketball everyone should just change their screen names to No Hope 1, No Hope 2, No Hope 3, etc.[/quote]

Sure we all want to be Villanova level but I don’t think anyone should reasonably expect that.

And I don’t think that’s a loser mentality that’s instilled in our program and in our fans, I just think it’s more about Villanova being great than us being so bad. 2 championships in the last 3 years. Vs no tournament wins in the last 18 years? That’s crazy.

It’s like if Ryan Tannehill, consistently average and honestly sometimes below average Quarterback, woke up and said “hey I expect to be as good as Tom Brady”. You can expect it and hope for it, but is it realistic?

At the same time, if the QB just focuses on smaller goals, like maybe winning a playoff game, success can be gained through that way. We don’t have to be anywhere Villanova to achieve success, I think that is important to recognize here. While maybe a long term, more ultimate goal for the program is reaching Villanova status, I think we should just try to do some smaller things first. Maybe win a big east tournament. It’s in our stadium. Maybe win a tournament game. Maybe make it into the second weekend one of these years. Maybe string together a couple consistently good seasons in a row.

Picture a staircase, we are at the bottom and nova is at the top. We can’t just jump up to the top of the stairs in one swift movement. We have to get there by making smaller strides, little by little.

As for us vs nova this season. We are probably a little better this year, I agree. But this is our best team in a long time. And Nova’s worst team in a long time. That alone tells you what you need to know.[/quote]

Here's what you need to know Jack - some here will make it seem like Villanova has been the Duke of the East but their dominant success is rather recent against St. John's. You need to look no further than the moronic hiring decisions since the great Lou Carnessecca retired. Mahoney could recruit but couldn't coach. Fraschilla saw the job merely as a stepping stone. Norm Roberts couldn't bring in the players nor coach. We hired an ESPN celebrity after not having coached for 6 years. We hire an NBA Hall of Fame player that never coached girls CYO.
Now look at the Villanova coaching tree.
BTW, here is the Villanova record since 1950 against St. John's. It has only been in the last 10 years that Villanova has caught up to St. John's. As they say, the record doesn't lie.

St. John's (NY) 95 games 49 (V) 46(SJ) .516[/quote]


All that matters is the present. Im sure everyone on this board could have a detailed discussion about the coaches who have been hired here, and the mistakes that have been made, and how good the program once was.

The reality of the situation is Villanova is currently a much better and much more successful program than St. John's. And we need to improve one season at a time if we want to get to that level, the level we once were.

Ill use another football analogy, one that hits close to home for me. The Jets won super bowl 3, had Namath, everything was great. What have the Jets done since? Meanwhile, the Patriots have risen and become a dynasty that has crapped on us year after year. We still play the Pats tough every year, but we aren't them. Maybe one day. but not now.
 
[quote="Mean Gene" post=308628][quote="fordham96" post=308627]Impressed by Oklahoma so far. Lon Kruger is a great coach and after losing Trae Young he seems to have a really solid team.[/quote]

Oklahoma might be better this year without Trae Young because they have a much more balanced offense not totally dependent on one player. Four of five different players could possibly lead them in scoring on any given night. Brady Manek is a player[/quote]

I posted about this not long ago. It seems many teams that return a good core get better after they lose a superstar. I don't know why that is...maybe it's the improvements several players make after practicing against and playing with such a talent outweigh the loss of the talent itself? Whatever the reason it seems much easier to keep winning going than to turn a losing team into a winning one.

Hopefully we can keep this rolling after Ponds.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=308625]

Here's what you need to know Jack - some here will make it seem like Villanova has been the Duke of the East but their dominant success is rather recent against St. John's. You need to look no further than the moronic hiring decisions since the great Lou Carnessecca retired. Mahoney could recruit but couldn't coach. Fraschilla saw the job merely as a stepping stone. Norm Roberts couldn't bring in the players nor coach. We hired an ESPN celebrity after not having coached for 6 years. We hire an NBA Hall of Fame player that never coached girls CYO.
Now look at the Villanova coaching tree.
BTW, here is the Villanova record since 1950 against St. John's. It has only been in the last 10 years that Villanova has caught up to St. John's. As they say, the record doesn't lie.

St. John's (NY) 95 games 49 (V) 46(SJ) .516[/quote]

Exactly, It's those whippersnappers whose first memory seems to be when Nova won the natty in 1985. Back when the ball didn't bounce and the kids didn't jump and the arena was filled with smoke St Johns OWNED Nova.
 
Syracuse loses to ODU at home and stays right where they are. It’s almost like a lot of media members are Syracuse grads.
 
[quote="IDRAFT" post=308642]Syracuse loses to ODU at home and stays right where they are. It’s almost like a lot of media members are Syracuse grads.[/quote]

OR from upstate New York. Buffalo had one significant win over a now 4 loss West Virginia. They have a great coach and it seems coaching cred is a factor. We are the Rodney Dangerfields of college basketball.
 
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