Around the Big East 18/19

Mike Zaun: Big East needs to do more in tournament other than Nova. No one nationally really starts paying attention very closely unless you make the Sweet 16 or better. I understand people will say, "Well, they got a tough draw, so it's ok to lose early every year". My response would be "Find a way". There are upsets literally all over the place every March. There's no reason Seton Hall couldn't have won their game to get to the Sweet 16 last year. It would be such a gift if we could make the tourney, win the opening round, and then have someone pull off a huge upset to have us face a mid major in the 2nd round. Some teams get very lucky that way and instead of facing a team like Michigan State or UNC maybe they play George Mason or something. Either way though, the league needs to make more noise in this regard. We have checked every other box and the only one still unchecked is how we do as a whole come March without Nova.

Mike we have the national champ 2 of the past 3 years and the one year Nova didn't win it, Xavier got to the Elite 8, beating the #2, #3 and #6 seeds in their region to get there. Seton Hall lost to the #1 seed Kansas last year in a close game, hardly something to be defensive about.
 
[quote="Room112" post=299726][quote="Chicago Days" post=299701][quote="Mike Zaun" post=299447][quote="Chicago Days" post=299436][quote="NCJohnnie" post=299434]Thanks for posting the Willard interview, very enjoyable read. I thought it was particularly interesting that Willard thinks point guard is going to be an area of strength for the Hall, as that was widely considered as a potential weakness this year for them. No easy outs in this league.[/quote]

Willard has become a good coach and seems able to get the most out of his guys.
Rightfully, he expects a lot from Myles Powell.
I wish them well when they’re not playing us, but here’s hoping they don’t over-achieve!
Lol.[/quote]

They underachieved last year IMO. They should've been a Sweet 16 shoe-in and maybe even a darkhorse Elite 8 threat. They had as much experience as anyone and had good chemistry. I think Willard held them back if anything.[/quote]

Always thought Willard was a good coach, but their exit in the Dance last year did surprise me, given their veteran and talented roster.[/quote]

They lost to the #1 seed Kansas in the second round. They played them tough and lost by 4. That wasn't really a surprise exit.[/quote]

Totally get it's difficult to beat Kansas...but if that's the reasoning it will become the same excuse every year. Most of our teams aren't going to get those really good seeds like 1-3 except Nova. If we really see ourselves as a power conference still (which we are), then we need to have power conference expectations. The ACC will have teams like FSU, VT, NC State, etc. every once in a while making big runs. Then you have the usuals like Duke/UNC/Cuse/etc. Nova is our usual...we need more FSU/VT/NC State type teams that aren't elite but hold their own making deep runs every several years or so. We are more than just Nova and teams like Marquette, Creighton, G'Town, SJ need to step up big time.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=299731][quote="Room112" post=299726][quote="Chicago Days" post=299701][quote="Mike Zaun" post=299447][quote="Chicago Days" post=299436][quote="NCJohnnie" post=299434]Thanks for posting the Willard interview, very enjoyable read. I thought it was particularly interesting that Willard thinks point guard is going to be an area of strength for the Hall, as that was widely considered as a potential weakness this year for them. No easy outs in this league.[/quote]

Willard has become a good coach and seems able to get the most out of his guys.
Rightfully, he expects a lot from Myles Powell.
I wish them well when they’re not playing us, but here’s hoping they don’t over-achieve!
Lol.[/quote]

They underachieved last year IMO. They should've been a Sweet 16 shoe-in and maybe even a darkhorse Elite 8 threat. They had as much experience as anyone and had good chemistry. I think Willard held them back if anything.[/quote]

Always thought Willard was a good coach, but their exit in the Dance last year did surprise me, given their veteran and talented roster.[/quote]

They lost to the #1 seed Kansas in the second round. They played them tough and lost by 4. That wasn't really a surprise exit.[/quote]

Totally get it's difficult to beat Kansas...but if that's the reasoning it will become the same excuse every year. Most of our teams aren't going to get those really good seeds like 1-3 except Nova. If we really see ourselves as a power conference still (which we are), then we need to have power conference expectations. The ACC will have teams like FSU, VT, NC State, etc. every once in a while making big runs. Then you have the usuals like Duke/UNC/Cuse/etc. Nova is our usual...we need more FSU/VT/NC State type teams that aren't elite but hold their own making deep runs every several years or so. We are more than just Nova and teams like Marquette, Creighton, G'Town, SJ need to step up big time.[/quote]

Virginia tech has never once made it to the sweet 16.
 
[quote="Amaseinyourface" post=299732][quote="Mike Zaun" post=299731][quote="Room112" post=299726][quote="Chicago Days" post=299701][quote="Mike Zaun" post=299447][quote="Chicago Days" post=299436][quote="NCJohnnie" post=299434]Thanks for posting the Willard interview, very enjoyable read. I thought it was particularly interesting that Willard thinks point guard is going to be an area of strength for the Hall, as that was widely considered as a potential weakness this year for them. No easy outs in this league.[/quote]

Willard has become a good coach and seems able to get the most out of his guys.
Rightfully, he expects a lot from Myles Powell.
I wish them well when they’re not playing us, but here’s hoping they don’t over-achieve!
Lol.[/quote]

They underachieved last year IMO. They should've been a Sweet 16 shoe-in and maybe even a darkhorse Elite 8 threat. They had as much experience as anyone and had good chemistry. I think Willard held them back if anything.[/quote]

Always thought Willard was a good coach, but their exit in the Dance last year did surprise me, given their veteran and talented roster.[/quote]

They lost to the #1 seed Kansas in the second round. They played them tough and lost by 4. That wasn't really a surprise exit.[/quote]

Totally get it's difficult to beat Kansas...but if that's the reasoning it will become the same excuse every year. Most of our teams aren't going to get those really good seeds like 1-3 except Nova. If we really see ourselves as a power conference still (which we are), then we need to have power conference expectations. The ACC will have teams like FSU, VT, NC State, etc. every once in a while making big runs. Then you have the usuals like Duke/UNC/Cuse/etc. Nova is our usual...we need more FSU/VT/NC State type teams that aren't elite but hold their own making deep runs every several years or so. We are more than just Nova and teams like Marquette, Creighton, G'Town, SJ need to step up big time.[/quote]

Virginia tech has never once made it to the sweet 16.[/quote]
Mase, no facts please. :)
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=299724]Big East needs to do more in tournament other than Nova. No one nationally really starts paying attention very closely unless you make the Sweet 16 or better. I understand people will say, "Well, they got a tough draw, so it's ok to lose early every year". My response would be "Find a way". There are upsets literally all over the place every March. There's no reason Seton Hall couldn't have won their game to get to the Sweet 16 last year. It would be such a gift if we could make the tourney, win the opening round, and then have someone pull off a huge upset to have us face a mid major in the 2nd round. Some teams get very lucky that way and instead of facing a team like Michigan State or UNC maybe they play George Mason or something. Either way though, the league needs to make more noise in this regard. We have checked every other box and the only one still unchecked is how we do as a whole come March without Nova.[/quote]


Xavier was a one seed with Nova last year, in 2017 Nova was a one seed, Xavier made the Elite 8 and Butler made the sweet 16. 2016 Nova was a 2 seed and won it all and Xavier was also a two seed.
 
[quote="Amaseinyourface" post=299732][quote="Mike Zaun" post=299731][quote="Room112" post=299726][quote="Chicago Days" post=299701][quote="Mike Zaun" post=299447][quote="Chicago Days" post=299436][quote="NCJohnnie" post=299434]Thanks for posting the Willard interview, very enjoyable read. I thought it was particularly interesting that Willard thinks point guard is going to be an area of strength for the Hall, as that was widely considered as a potential weakness this year for them. No easy outs in this league.[/quote]

Willard has become a good coach and seems able to get the most out of his guys.
Rightfully, he expects a lot from Myles Powell.
I wish them well when they’re not playing us, but here’s hoping they don’t over-achieve!
Lol.[/quote]

They underachieved last year IMO. They should've been a Sweet 16 shoe-in and maybe even a darkhorse Elite 8 threat. They had as much experience as anyone and had good chemistry. I think Willard held them back if anything.[/quote]

Always thought Willard was a good coach, but their exit in the Dance last year did surprise me, given their veteran and talented roster.[/quote]

They lost to the #1 seed Kansas in the second round. They played them tough and lost by 4. That wasn't really a surprise exit.[/quote]

Totally get it's difficult to beat Kansas...but if that's the reasoning it will become the same excuse every year. Most of our teams aren't going to get those really good seeds like 1-3 except Nova. If we really see ourselves as a power conference still (which we are), then we need to have power conference expectations. The ACC will have teams like FSU, VT, NC State, etc. every once in a while making big runs. Then you have the usuals like Duke/UNC/Cuse/etc. Nova is our usual...we need more FSU/VT/NC State type teams that aren't elite but hold their own making deep runs every several years or so. We are more than just Nova and teams like Marquette, Creighton, G'Town, SJ need to step up big time.[/quote]

Virginia tech has never once made it to the sweet 16.[/quote]

They would be picked to fight Nova for the Big East championship if they were here. They're ranked #15 to start the season. They may very well make it this year. My point was that conferences like the B1G, B12, ACC, and SEC have their usual powers who go deep but they also have other teams which are not blue blood schools but make their occasional runs. We have Villanova making deep runs but after them there are a bunch of big questionmarks. All I'm doing is echoing the same thing national pundits have been saying.
 
Mike Zaun wrote:They would be picked to fight Nova for the Big East championship if they were here. They're ranked #15 to start the season. They may very well make it this year. My point was that conferences like the B1G, B12, ACC, and SEC have their usual powers who go deep but they also have other teams which are not blue blood schools but make their occasional runs. We have Villanova making deep runs but after them there are a bunch of big questionmarks. All I'm doing is echoing the same thing national pundits have been saying.

The Big East is pretty consistently ranked at least 4th best of the Power conferences behind the Big 12, ACC & SEC but ahead of the Big Ten & PAC 12. Given that most of the teams in the other Power conferences get huge funding from their football programs, I'd say that is damn impressive and believe the substantial majority of redmen.com posters are rightly proud of what the new Big East has achieved since 2012 which I suspect is better than most of us thought likely at the time.
 
Last edited:
[quote="NCJohnnie" post=299738]Mike Zaun wrote:They would be picked to fight Nova for the Big East championship if they were here. They're ranked #15 to start the season. They may very well make it this year. My point was that conferences like the B1G, B12, ACC, and SEC have their usual powers who go deep but they also have other teams which are not blue blood schools but make their occasional runs. We have Villanova making deep runs but after them there are a bunch of big questionmarks. All I'm doing is echoing the same thing national pundits have been saying.

The Big East is pretty consistently ranked at least 4th best of the Power conferences behind the Big 12, ACC & SEC but ahead of the Big Ten & PAC 12. Given that most of the teams in the other Power conferences get huge funding from their football programs, I'd say that is damn impressive and believe the substantial majority of redmen.com posters are rightly proud of what the new Big East has achieved since 2012 which I suspect is better than most of us thought likely at the time.[/quote]

If we are comparing to what we thought might happen post realignment of course as a conference we're making out very well. Just saying that every March it seems it's Villanova then pray other teams get past the 1st and 2nd rounds. As a new league we are still young and we do very well in the regular season, but most fans measure teams by what they do in March and we all know that right or wrong.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=299735][quote="Amaseinyourface" post=299732][quote="Mike Zaun" post=299731][quote="Room112" post=299726][quote="Chicago Days" post=299701][quote="Mike Zaun" post=299447][quote="Chicago Days" post=299436][quote="NCJohnnie" post=299434]Thanks for posting the Willard interview, very enjoyable read. I thought it was particularly interesting that Willard thinks point guard is going to be an area of strength for the Hall, as that was widely considered as a potential weakness this year for them. No easy outs in this league.[/quote]

Willard has become a good coach and seems able to get the most out of his guys.
Rightfully, he expects a lot from Myles Powell.
I wish them well when they’re not playing us, but here’s hoping they don’t over-achieve!
Lol.[/quote]

They underachieved last year IMO. They should've been a Sweet 16 shoe-in and maybe even a darkhorse Elite 8 threat. They had as much experience as anyone and had good chemistry. I think Willard held them back if anything.[/quote]

Always thought Willard was a good coach, but their exit in the Dance last year did surprise me, given their veteran and talented roster.[/quote]

They lost to the #1 seed Kansas in the second round. They played them tough and lost by 4. That wasn't really a surprise exit.[/quote]

Totally get it's difficult to beat Kansas...but if that's the reasoning it will become the same excuse every year. Most of our teams aren't going to get those really good seeds like 1-3 except Nova. If we really see ourselves as a power conference still (which we are), then we need to have power conference expectations. The ACC will have teams like FSU, VT, NC State, etc. every once in a while making big runs. Then you have the usuals like Duke/UNC/Cuse/etc. Nova is our usual...we need more FSU/VT/NC State type teams that aren't elite but hold their own making deep runs every several years or so. We are more than just Nova and teams like Marquette, Creighton, G'Town, SJ need to step up big time.[/quote]

Virginia tech has never once made it to the sweet 16.[/quote]

They would be picked to fight Nova for the Big East championship if they were here. They're ranked #15 to start the season. They may very well make it this year. My point was that conferences like the B1G, B12, ACC, and SEC have their usual powers who go deep but they also have other teams which are not blue blood schools but make their occasional runs. We have Villanova making deep runs but after them there are a bunch of big questionmarks. All I'm doing is echoing the same thing national pundits have been saying.[/quote]

Other then the Big 12, all of those conferences have more teams then the Big East, hence, more chances to make deep runs. The ACC sends 9 or 10 schools (at least) to the tournament every year, so somebody usually emerges by accident.

That's why, when looking for the best conference, they should be judged on percentage of teams that make the NCAA Tournament. That will tell you who was the best over the course of the entire season.

The tournament itself? Too much can happen in a one game and out situation. Two years ago, Xavier was a 2 seed, and lost in round 2 because the other team hit a miracle buzzer beating shot off a broken play. You can't kill them for that, IMO.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=299731][quote="Room112" post=299726][quote="Chicago Days" post=299701][quote="Mike Zaun" post=299447][quote="Chicago Days" post=299436][quote="NCJohnnie" post=299434]Thanks for posting the Willard interview, very enjoyable read. I thought it was particularly interesting that Willard thinks point guard is going to be an area of strength for the Hall, as that was widely considered as a potential weakness this year for them. No easy outs in this league.[/quote]

Willard has become a good coach and seems able to get the most out of his guys.
Rightfully, he expects a lot from Myles Powell.
I wish them well when they’re not playing us, but here’s hoping they don’t over-achieve!
Lol.[/quote]

They underachieved last year IMO. They should've been a Sweet 16 shoe-in and maybe even a darkhorse Elite 8 threat. They had as much experience as anyone and had good chemistry. I think Willard held them back if anything.[/quote]

Always thought Willard was a good coach, but their exit in the Dance last year did surprise me, given their veteran and talented roster.[/quote]

They lost to the #1 seed Kansas in the second round. They played them tough and lost by 4. That wasn't really a surprise exit.[/quote]

Totally get it's difficult to beat Kansas...but if that's the reasoning it will become the same excuse every year. Most of our teams aren't going to get those really good seeds like 1-3 except Nova. If we really see ourselves as a power conference still (which we are), then we need to have power conference expectations. The ACC will have teams like FSU, VT, NC State, etc. every once in a while making big runs. Then you have the usuals like Duke/UNC/Cuse/etc. Nova is our usual...we need more FSU/VT/NC State type teams that aren't elite but hold their own making deep runs every several years or so. We are more than just Nova and teams like Marquette, Creighton, G'Town, SJ need to step up big time.[/quote]

Haven't we yet realized that the NCAA tourney is mostly a wild crapshoot and not an indicator of conference strength? I mean we just had #1 Virginia get blown out by #16. Is anyone saying the mighty ACC was overrated?
 
[quote="SJU61982" post=299740][quote="Mike Zaun" post=299735][quote="Amaseinyourface" post=299732][quote="Mike Zaun" post=299731][quote="Room112" post=299726][quote="Chicago Days" post=299701][quote="Mike Zaun" post=299447][quote="Chicago Days" post=299436][quote="NCJohnnie" post=299434]Thanks for posting the Willard interview, very enjoyable read. I thought it was particularly interesting that Willard thinks point guard is going to be an area of strength for the Hall, as that was widely considered as a potential weakness this year for them. No easy outs in this league.[/quote]

Willard has become a good coach and seems able to get the most out of his guys.
Rightfully, he expects a lot from Myles Powell.
I wish them well when they’re not playing us, but here’s hoping they don’t over-achieve!
Lol.[/quote]

They underachieved last year IMO. They should've been a Sweet 16 shoe-in and maybe even a darkhorse Elite 8 threat. They had as much experience as anyone and had good chemistry. I think Willard held them back if anything.[/quote]

Always thought Willard was a good coach, but their exit in the Dance last year did surprise me, given their veteran and talented roster.[/quote]

They lost to the #1 seed Kansas in the second round. They played them tough and lost by 4. That wasn't really a surprise exit.[/quote]

Totally get it's difficult to beat Kansas...but if that's the reasoning it will become the same excuse every year. Most of our teams aren't going to get those really good seeds like 1-3 except Nova. If we really see ourselves as a power conference still (which we are), then we need to have power conference expectations. The ACC will have teams like FSU, VT, NC State, etc. every once in a while making big runs. Then you have the usuals like Duke/UNC/Cuse/etc. Nova is our usual...we need more FSU/VT/NC State type teams that aren't elite but hold their own making deep runs every several years or so. We are more than just Nova and teams like Marquette, Creighton, G'Town, SJ need to step up big time.[/quote]

Virginia tech has never once made it to the sweet 16.[/quote]

They would be picked to fight Nova for the Big East championship if they were here. They're ranked #15 to start the season. They may very well make it this year. My point was that conferences like the B1G, B12, ACC, and SEC have their usual powers who go deep but they also have other teams which are not blue blood schools but make their occasional runs. We have Villanova making deep runs but after them there are a bunch of big questionmarks. All I'm doing is echoing the same thing national pundits have been saying.[/quote]

Other then the Big 12, all of those conferences have more teams then the Big East, hence, more chances to make deep runs. The ACC sends 9 or 10 schools (at least) to the tournament every year, so somebody usually emerges by accident.

That's why, when looking for the best conference, they should be judged on percentage of teams that make the NCAA Tournament. That will tell you who was the best over the course of the entire season.

The tournament itself? Too much can happen in a one game and out situation. Two years ago, Xavier was a 2 seed, and lost in round 2 because the other team hit a miracle buzzer beating shot off a broken play. You can't kill them for that, IMO.[/quote]

Agreed.
 
[quote="Room112" post=299743][quote="Mike Zaun" post=299731][quote="Room112" post=299726][quote="Chicago Days" post=299701][quote="Mike Zaun" post=299447][quote="Chicago Days" post=299436][quote="NCJohnnie" post=299434]Thanks for posting the Willard interview, very enjoyable read. I thought it was particularly interesting that Willard thinks point guard is going to be an area of strength for the Hall, as that was widely considered as a potential weakness this year for them. No easy outs in this league.[/quote]

Willard has become a good coach and seems able to get the most out of his guys.
Rightfully, he expects a lot from Myles Powell.
I wish them well when they’re not playing us, but here’s hoping they don’t over-achieve!
Lol.[/quote]

They underachieved last year IMO. They should've been a Sweet 16 shoe-in and maybe even a darkhorse Elite 8 threat. They had as much experience as anyone and had good chemistry. I think Willard held them back if anything.[/quote]

Always thought Willard was a good coach, but their exit in the Dance last year did surprise me, given their veteran and talented roster.[/quote]

They lost to the #1 seed Kansas in the second round. They played them tough and lost by 4. That wasn't really a surprise exit.[/quote]

Totally get it's difficult to beat Kansas...but if that's the reasoning it will become the same excuse every year. Most of our teams aren't going to get those really good seeds like 1-3 except Nova. If we really see ourselves as a power conference still (which we are), then we need to have power conference expectations. The ACC will have teams like FSU, VT, NC State, etc. every once in a while making big runs. Then you have the usuals like Duke/UNC/Cuse/etc. Nova is our usual...we need more FSU/VT/NC State type teams that aren't elite but hold their own making deep runs every several years or so. We are more than just Nova and teams like Marquette, Creighton, G'Town, SJ need to step up big time.[/quote]

Haven't we yet realized that the NCAA tourney is mostly a wild crapshoot and not an indicator of conference strength? I mean we just had #1 Virginia get blown out by #16. Is anyone saying the mighty ACC was overrated?[/quote]

No because the ACC is already proven. We are not beyond Nova and you could argue Xavier (when I say proven I mean in March). I get that we are smaller and it should be the ratio not the number but that's not how it works unfortunately to the mainstream. I never said conferences SHOULD be measured by what they do in March, obviously sometimes it's a crapshoot. I'm just saying we are perceived by a decent amount of common fans to be "just Villanova". If PC, SJ, and Marquette made the Sweet 16 and Villanova made the Elite 8, those people would shut up quickly. I never said it's fair to be judged this way, I'm just saying that's the reality and I want the Big East to be regarded as a big time conference to common fans as well nationally. Personally I'm thrilled the conference has been this good, just concerned about March for our teams as they have a tendency to bow out quite early except Nova and X.
 
Number of Big East teams dancing and seed placement to me are key barometers of League success. Of course championships & Final Four representation are meaningful, but the “Dance” is a crap shoot. All in all, from the advent of the Big East, a conference w/o football revenue, this venture has been a huge success. Looking for imperfections seems folly.
 
The Minnesota Timberwolves are declining center Justin Patton’s third-year team option. Creighton big finding next level challenging, as do so many obviously.
 
Looking only at the tournament is a narrow view of any Conference. When you look at the Big East OOC record against other “power conferences” since it went back to basketball only schools it is very solid.
 
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