Anderson - is he really the guy ?

[NCJohnnie]

Proud Alum wrote:

Adam post=454736 wrote:

 

Yes exactly, his teams at Arkansas/Missouri were primarily 4 stars with the occasional 5 star player. At St. John's his teams are primarily 3 stars with the occasional player like Champ/Posh who outperform their ranking. He never would've survived as long at his former schools by recruiting at his current level. Totally different talent levels. 

You really do post a lot of incorrect information. He recruited one 5-star player in his whole time at Arkansas. He had mainly a mix of 3-star and 4-star kids, more 3-star than 4-star.

Making Plays, can you opine on whether CMA recruited mostly 3 star or 4 star players at Arkansas? See above.

 

[ADORAZ]

 

Yes exactly, his teams at Arkansas/Missouri were primarily 4 stars with the occasional 5 star player. At St. John's his teams are primarily 3 stars with the occasional player like Champ/Posh who outperform their ranking. He never would've survived as long at his former schools by recruiting at his current level. Totally different talent levels.

You really do post a lot of incorrect information. He recruited one 5-star player in his whole time at Arkansas. He had mainly a mix of 3-star and 4-star kids, more 3-star than 4-star.

247 Composite Class Rankings for CMA:
Arkansas 2011: #8
Arkansas 2012: #46
Arkansas 2013: #19
Arkansas 2014: #43
Arkansas 2015: #101
Arkansas 2016: #29
Arkansas 2017: #36
Arkansas 2018: #38
St. John's 2019: #159
St. John's 2020: #68
St. John's 2021: #63
St. John's 2022: #62

CMA Average Class Rankings:
Arkansas (8 years): #40 (#29 for first 4 years / #51 for final 4 years)
St. John's (4 years): #88

Are we done here, or are you going to continue embarrassing yourself?

 

[SJU Double Alumn]

 

Yes exactly, his teams at Arkansas/Missouri were primarily 4 stars with the occasional 5 star player. At St. John's his teams are primarily 3 stars with the occasional player like Champ/Posh who outperform their ranking. He never would've survived as long at his former schools by recruiting at his current level. Totally different talent levels.

You really do post a lot of incorrect information. He recruited one 5-star player in his whole time at Arkansas. He had mainly a mix of 3-star and 4-star kids, more 3-star than 4-star.

247 Composite Class Rankings for CMA:
Arkansas 2011: #8
Arkansas 2012: #46
Arkansas 2013: #19
Arkansas 2014: #43
Arkansas 2015: #101
Arkansas 2016: #29
Arkansas 2017: #36
Arkansas 2018: #38
St. John's 2019: #159
St. John's 2020: #68
St. John's 2021: #63
St. John's 2022: #62

CMA Average Class Rankings:
Arkansas (8 years): #40 (#29 for first 4 years / #51 for final 4 years)
St. John's (4 years): #88

Are we done here, or are you going to continue embarrassing yourself?

You really aren't good at this. You should stop while you are behind.
Anderson was hired at Arkansas on March 23, 2011.
Your statement regarding him bringing in primarily 4-star and occasional 5-star players at Arkansas is entirely incorrect. Nothing you posted above changes how entirely incorrect you are. 

 

[austour]

 

Yes exactly, his teams at Arkansas/Missouri were primarily 4 stars with the occasional 5 star player. At St. John's his teams are primarily 3 stars with the occasional player like Champ/Posh who outperform their ranking. He never would've survived as long at his former schools by recruiting at his current level. Totally different talent levels.

You really do post a lot of incorrect information. He recruited one 5-star player in his whole time at Arkansas. He had mainly a mix of 3-star and 4-star kids, more 3-star than 4-star.

247 Composite Class Rankings for CMA:
Arkansas 2011: #8
Arkansas 2012: #46
Arkansas 2013: #19
Arkansas 2014: #43
Arkansas 2015: #101
Arkansas 2016: #29
Arkansas 2017: #36
Arkansas 2018: #38
St. John's 2019: #159
St. John's 2020: #68
St. John's 2021: #63
St. John's 2022: #62

CMA Average Class Rankings:
Arkansas (8 years): #40 (#29 for first 4 years / #51 for final 4 years)
St. John's (4 years): #88

Are we done here, or are you going to continue embarrassing yourself?
 

I am sure he will if you come up with a coherent response to his point, which I believe is correct.  No one said anything about him recruiting better or worse at STJ then Arkansas.  Just that your point about 4 and 5 stars came out your tushy. 

 

 

[ADORAZ]

 

Yes exactly, his teams at Arkansas/Missouri were primarily 4 stars with the occasional 5 star player. At St. John's his teams are primarily 3 stars with the occasional player like Champ/Posh who outperform their ranking. He never would've survived as long at his former schools by recruiting at his current level. Totally different talent levels.

You really do post a lot of incorrect information. He recruited one 5-star player in his whole time at Arkansas. He had mainly a mix of 3-star and 4-star kids, more 3-star than 4-star.

247 Composite Class Rankings for CMA:
Arkansas 2011: #8
Arkansas 2012: #46
Arkansas 2013: #19
Arkansas 2014: #43
Arkansas 2015: #101
Arkansas 2016: #29
Arkansas 2017: #36
Arkansas 2018: #38
St. John's 2019: #159
St. John's 2020: #68
St. John's 2021: #63
St. John's 2022: #62

CMA Average Class Rankings:
Arkansas (8 years): #40 (#29 for first 4 years / #51 for final 4 years)
St. John's (4 years): #88

Are we done here, or are you going to continue embarrassing yourself?

You really aren't good at this. You should stop while you are behind.
Anderson was hired at Arkansas on March 23, 2011.
Your statement regarding him bringing in primarily 4-star and occasional 5-star players at Arkansas is entirely incorrect. Nothing you posted above changes how entirely incorrect you are. 

Uh yeah, he was hired in March 2011. His first class was for 2011 (the fall). Reread what I posted. His 8 Arkansas classes ranked more than twice as high on average compared to his 4 St. John's classes (#40 vs #88). Not sure how much more clear I can make this.

Are you a troll or just this naive?

 

[ADORAZ]

 

Yes exactly, his teams at Arkansas/Missouri were primarily 4 stars with the occasional 5 star player. At St. John's his teams are primarily 3 stars with the occasional player like Champ/Posh who outperform their ranking. He never would've survived as long at his former schools by recruiting at his current level. Totally different talent levels.

You really do post a lot of incorrect information. He recruited one 5-star player in his whole time at Arkansas. He had mainly a mix of 3-star and 4-star kids, more 3-star than 4-star.

247 Composite Class Rankings for CMA:
Arkansas 2011: #8
Arkansas 2012: #46
Arkansas 2013: #19
Arkansas 2014: #43
Arkansas 2015: #101
Arkansas 2016: #29
Arkansas 2017: #36
Arkansas 2018: #38
St. John's 2019: #159
St. John's 2020: #68
St. John's 2021: #63
St. John's 2022: #62

CMA Average Class Rankings:
Arkansas (8 years): #40 (#29 for first 4 years / #51 for final 4 years)
St. John's (4 years): #88

Are we done here, or are you going to continue embarrassing yourself?


 

I am sure he will if you come up with a coherent response to his point, which I believe is correct.  No one said anything about him recruiting better or worse at STJ then Arkansas.  Just that your point about 4 and 5 stars came out your tushy. 



 

Good Lord. I said CMA teams were primarily made up of 4 stars with the occasional 5 star at Arkansas and Missouri. That is absolutely true. 

Do I really need to show exactly how many 4 stars he recruited every year? I will if people can't look them up themselves, but I've already wasted enough time showing his overall rankings (which have more relevance). I just did a quick scan of a few of his Arkansas classes, and yes they had plenty of 4 stars... as evident by the overall rankings being #40 (Arkansas) vs #88 (St. John's). 7/8 of his Arkansas classes were top 46, do you think he got those classes with a bunch of 3 stars?

How is this even a debate? He recruited better at Arkansas than he did here.

 

[Dan V]

Recruiting rankings shouldn’t be taken so seriously outside the top 50 or so. Never forget Ivan Renko rising up these rankings and getting a scouting report from the “experts” lmao. 

 

[ADORAZ]

Recruiting rankings shouldn’t be taken so seriously outside the top 50 or so. Never forget Ivan Renko rising up these rankings and getting a scouting report from the “experts” lmao. 

Sure, then let's talk about NET rankings...

 

[Dan V]

Recruiting rankings shouldn’t be taken so seriously outside the top 50 or so. Never forget Ivan Renko rising up these rankings and getting a scouting report from the “experts” lmao. 

Sure, then let's talk about NET rankings...

Sure ones based on numbers and data and the other had Ja Morant as a zero star recruit who probably only got a profile after he signed with Murray St. 

 

[ADORAZ]

Number of five stars and four stars per CMA classes:

Arkansas:
2011: 1 five star, 3 four stars (#8 overall)
2012: 0 five/four stars (#46 overall- a bunch just outside the 4 star range)
2013: 1 five star, 1 four star (#19 overall)
2014: 1 four star (#43 overall)
2015: 1 four star (#101 overall)
2016: 3 four stars (#29 overall)
2017: 1 four star (#36 overall)
2018: 0 five/four stars (#38 overall- a bunch just outside the 4 star range)

St. John's:
2019: 0 five/four stars (#159 overall)
2020: 0 five/four stars (#68 overall)
2021: 0 five/four stars (#63 overall)
2022: 1 four star (#62 overall)

In 8 years at Arkansas he got 2 five stars and 10 four stars (12 total), and also had far more players in the high 3 star range.
In 4 years at St. John's he got 0 five stars and 1 four star.

At Arkansas he averaged 1.5 four/five stars per year (along with more high 3 stars).
At St. John's he's averaged 0.25 four/five stars per year.

At Arkansas he got 6X as many four/five stars per year vs St. John's.

Average class rankings:
Arkansas: #40
St. John's: #88

Hopefully that settles it. This isn't the recruiting St. John's signed up for, and it isn't anywhere close to his recruiting at Arkansas.

 

[monte]

Number of four stars and five stars per CMA classes:

2011: 1 five star, 3 four stars (#8 overall)
2012: 0 five/four stars (#46 overall- a bunch just outside the 4 star range)
2013: 1 five star, 1 four star (#19 overall)
2014: 1 four star (#43 overall)
2015: 1 four star (#101 overall)
2016: 3 fours stars (#29 overall)
2017: 1 four star (#36 overall)
2018: 0 five/four stars (#38 overall- a bunch just outside the 4 star range)

2019: 0 five/four stars (#159 overall)
2020: 0 five/four stars (#68 overall)
2021: 0 five/four stars (#63 overall)
2022: 1 four star (#62 overall)

In 8 years at Arkansas he got 2 five stars and 10 four stars (12 total), and also had far more players in the high 3 star range.
In 4 years at St. John's he got 0 five stars and 1 four star.

At Arkansas he averaged 1.5 four/five stars per year (along with more high 3 stars).
At St. John's he's averaged 0.25 four/five stars per year.

At Arkansas he got 6X as many four/star stars per year vs St. John's.

Average class rankings:
Arkansas: #40
St. John's: #88

Hopefully that settles it. This isn't the recruiting St. John's signed up for.

I hate to break this to you Adam, but facts and statistics don't matter to people with an agenda. And we've got plenty of agenda driven "defend CMA and the school no matter what" types. They ain't stupid-well,  a few are- but they have an agenda. Pretty much like talking politics with some people. They'll never acknowledge your point, so not even worth the time and energy. 

 

[boo haarvey]

Recruiting rankings shouldn’t be taken so seriously outside the top 50 or so. Never forget Ivan Renko rising up these rankings and getting a scouting report from the “experts” lmao. 

Sure, then let's talk about NET rankings...

Sure ones based on numbers and data and the other had Ja Morant as a zero star recruit who probably only got a profile after he signed with Murray St. 

I never understood this argument.  Ja Morant is an aberration.  There is a clear correlation between four and five stars performing better than two and three star kids.  There are unquestionably diamond in the rough two star kids that thrive and five star kids that bust.  But given the choice, I'd prefer to consistently get four and five star kids over two and three star kids any day of the week.  It's not an accident that we're competing with mid-majors for many of our recruits.  It's because thus far, the more talented kids don't want to play for this staff. 

I don't expect us to compete with the blue bloods and I was willing to cut CMA a great deal of slack in his first couple of years.  But next year will be Year 4 and I don't see the talent.  

As several astute posters have pointed out, plenty can happen during the off-season in the crazy transfer market, but it doesn't look like the staff will have much momentum or any semblance of a track record of success at SJU.  I'm not terribly optimistic. 

 

 

[Dan V]

There’s only 2 five star recruits in the Big East, they generally go to football conferences to as the kids say “secure the bag”. Do yourselves a favor and stop even mentioning the words five star. Now four star fair enough and we have one committed already. Enjoy the rest of your night folks.

 

[boo haarvey]

There’s only 2 five star recruits in the Big East, they generally go to football conferences to as the kids say “secure the bag”. Do yourselves a favor and stop even mentioning the words five star. Now four star fair enough and we have one committed already. Enjoy the rest of your night folks.

Dan, you're getting hung up on semantics.  I think the larger point is that we are not recruiting nearly well enough compared to other schools in our conference.  That puts us at a significant disadvantage even if CMA were a coaching wizard.  Can we agree on that?

 

[ohiofan]

Can you guys stop the insane debates or should I just shoot myself now? /media/kunena/emoticons/silly.png

 

[JohnnyFan]

Only brought up McKillop because they played before us and I still blame Norm for this mess
Mahoney, Fran and Jarvis were understandable hires
Norm was not and have been scrambling ever since

Classic!

 

[SJU Double Alumn]

Number of five stars and four stars per CMA classes:

Arkansas:
2011: 1 five star, 3 four stars (#8 overall)
2012: 0 five/four stars (#46 overall- a bunch just outside the 4 star range)
2013: 1 five star, 1 four star (#19 overall)
2014: 1 four star (#43 overall)
2015: 1 four star (#101 overall)
2016: 3 four stars (#29 overall)
2017: 1 four star (#36 overall)
2018: 0 five/four stars (#38 overall- a bunch just outside the 4 star range)

St. John's:
2019: 0 five/four stars (#159 overall)
2020: 0 five/four stars (#68 overall)
2021: 0 five/four stars (#63 overall)
2022: 1 four star (#62 overall)

In 8 years at Arkansas he got 2 five stars and 10 four stars (12 total), and also had far more players in the high 3 star range.
In 4 years at St. John's he got 0 five stars and 1 four star.

At Arkansas he averaged 1.5 four/five stars per year (along with more high 3 stars).
At St. John's he's averaged 0.25 four/five stars per year.

At Arkansas he got 6X as many four/five stars per year vs St. John's.

Average class rankings:
Arkansas: #40
St. John's: #88

Hopefully that settles it. This isn't the recruiting St. John's signed up for, and it isn't anywhere close to his recruiting at Arkansas.

Wrong again! The 2011 class was not his. They were already recruited by the prior coach. 
You are a source of consistent misinformation. 
Your claim that at Arkansas he had all 4- and 5-star recruits was nonsense. He brought one 5-star, a handful of 4-stars, and a majority of 3-stars. Like I said 
Try and research things before you post more mistakes in the future. 

 

[Knight]

ENOUGH!

 

 

[Section3]

Beast of the East wrote:

I once asked GSJ if players consider it an embarrassment to stay at one school for 4 years, or even to play college for that long..  His response was "definitely".

Beast, schools like Providence, Xavier & Hall are proving that theory questionable at best for all but NBA level talent and those are the very schools we should be able to compete with year after year.
PC & Hall both start 2 very good seniors who've played their entire career there and Xavier starts a 5th year senior and leader (Paul Scruggs) and a junior Freemantle who as far as I know is expected to return next year. Admittedly they all mix in difference making transfers but the continuity is there and achievable. Imho, it's important that Posh & Wusu be those kind of stayers for us.

Don’t underestimate the fact that none of those 5th year players on those teams are NBA bound and the pandemic limited opportunities overseas. Big reason why a lot of 5th year players. Kudos to coaches who kept them.

For any player who fancies himself to be a next level player staying 4 years is not viewed as a plus. May change because of NIL but we’ll see.

I think the pressure to make it this year has weighed on Champagnie. Don’t think there is any way he comes back.

 

[Section3]

I think Mike Cragg’s initiative with making the Providence game a festive event will, if continued, make our program a more desired “nest” than a stopover link in a chain of colleges attended.  This will help retain a larger part of the roster and allow for the desired “continuity.”

Last night was like old times….all that was missing was “Here we go Redmen, here we go!”. There were moments when we were in a position to take the lead when the roof would have been raised had we hit the shot. We took the lead, albeit for a moment, on a foul shot - so not as much roof lifting. But, nonetheless, a great night - outside of the final score and some of the reasons leading to a loss that definitely should have been a win.

Cragg is all in. And that young girl who runs the on court promos, games etc… is terrific. Is that Courtney Perzan?