Anderson - is he really the guy ?

[ADORAZ]

Number of five stars and four stars per CMA classes:

Arkansas:
2011: 1 five star, 3 four stars (#8 overall)
2012: 0 five/four stars (#46 overall- a bunch just outside the 4 star range)
2013: 1 five star, 1 four star (#19 overall)
2014: 1 four star (#43 overall)
2015: 1 four star (#101 overall)
2016: 3 four stars (#29 overall)
2017: 1 four star (#36 overall)
2018: 0 five/four stars (#38 overall- a bunch just outside the 4 star range)

St. John's:
2019: 0 five/four stars (#159 overall)
2020: 0 five/four stars (#68 overall)
2021: 0 five/four stars (#63 overall)
2022: 1 four star (#62 overall)

In 8 years at Arkansas he got 2 five stars and 10 four stars (12 total), and also had far more players in the high 3 star range.
In 4 years at St. John's he got 0 five stars and 1 four star.

At Arkansas he averaged 1.5 four/five stars per year (along with more high 3 stars).
At St. John's he's averaged 0.25 four/five stars per year.

At Arkansas he got 6X as many four/five stars per year vs St. John's.

Average class rankings:
Arkansas: #40
St. John's: #88

Hopefully that settles it. This isn't the recruiting St. John's signed up for, and it isn't anywhere close to his recruiting at Arkansas.

Wrong again! The 2011 class was not his. They were already recruited by the prior coach. 
You are a source of consistent misinformation. 
Your claim that at Arkansas he had all 4- and 5-star recruits was nonsense. He brought one 5-star, a handful of 4-stars, and a majority of 3-stars. Like I said 
Try and research things before you post more mistakes in the future. 

You know, it's possible to simply admit you're wrong on the Internet and to acknowledge when the other person is correct. Let me try one final time to get through to you here.

The 2011 class was CMA's first class at Arkansas. I don't care if he was the first person to recruit or sign them. He was hired in March 2011 and that top 10 class stayed with him until the first game was played in November. We've seen time and time again when new coaches are hired and the entire class decommits (see when Lavin was fired and we lost several 4 stars).

But hey, go ahead and change the parameters of what is widely accepted in college basketball. Remove his 2011 class. His 7 year Arkansas average (without 2011) would be #44.5 rather than his 8 year average of #40, and both of those numbers are still well below his St. John's average of #88. We're talking a 2X difference here, not a 5% difference. Also, no it wasn't a "handful" of four/five stars... it was 12 in 8 years. Stop denying facts, especially after I present them. Again, that's an average of 1.5 per class at Arkansas vs 0.25 per class at St. John's. Assuming players stay for 3 years on average then yes his Arkansas starters were primarily 4/5 stars during his tenure there.

Congrats on wasting everyone's time just to further prove my point. His recruiting hasn't been as strong at St. John's as it was at Arkansas, at least according to metrics from all recruiting websites. I've wasted a lot of time providing every number possible but you keep on denying them, so clearly you have an agenda. I am done debating this.

 

[SJU Double Alumn]

Wrong again! The 2011 class was not his. They were already recruited by the prior coach. 
You are a source of consistent misinformation. 
Your claim that at Arkansas he had all 4- and 5-star recruits was nonsense. He brought one 5-star, a handful of 4-stars, and a majority of 3-stars. Like I said 
Try and research things before you post more mistakes in the future. 

You know, it's possible to simply admit you're wrong on the Internet and to acknowledge when the other person is correct. Let me try one final time to get through to you here.

The 2011 class was CMA's first class at Arkansas. I don't care if he was the first person to recruit or sign them. He was hired in March 2011 and that top 10 class stayed with him until the first game was played in November. We've seen time and time again when new coaches are hired and the entire class decommits (see when Lavin was fired and we lost several 4 stars).

But hey, go ahead and change the parameters of what is widely accepted in college basketball. Remove his 2011 class. His 7 year Arkansas average (without 2011) would be #44.5 rather than his 8 year average of #40, and both of those numbers are still well below his St. John's average of #88. We're talking a 2X difference here, not a 5% difference. Also, no it wasn't a "handful" of four/five stars... it was 12 in 8 years. Stop denying facts, especially after I present them. Again, that's an average of 1.5 per class at Arkansas vs 0.25 per class at St. John's. Assuming players stay for 3 years on average then yes his Arkansas starters were primarily 4/5 stars during his tenure there.

Congrats on wasting everyone's time just to further prove my point. His recruiting hasn't been as strong at St. John's as it was at Arkansas, at least according to metrics from all recruiting websites. I've wasted a lot of time providing every number possible but you keep on denying them, so clearly you have an agenda. I am done debating this.

I have no agenda. I am just correcting your mistaken statement. 
In seven years that he recruited at Arkansas, he brought in seven 4-stars and one 5-star. The rest (majority) were 3-stars or not rated. 
Is that better than the ratings of his recruits at St. John’s so far? Yes, but that wasn’t the erroneous statement you made. You grossly misstated the ratings of his Arkansas recruits. 
As Knight said, enough. Enough of your alternate reality and combativeness. You were wrong, correct information was provided, now please move on. 

 

[Dan V]

@ Boo Harvey

Like I said the top 50 or so ranked recruits are the can’t miss prospects that anybody could see are the elite. After that I trust the college head coaches and their staffs judgement more than those sites or the opinions on this site about recruits. Five star recruits have become rarer in the Big East not coincidentally since football left. Even the cream of the crop recruiting wise (Nova and UConn) generally get about 1 kid around that 40-60 range and the rest are lower ranked 4’s and 3’s, more so 4’s with those two schools specifically. They deserve to be better at recruiting they are multiple national championship level programs in the 21st century.  Those two along with Marquette and Creighton are landing mostly 4 star players. Marquette dumps a ton of money into their basketball program and I’d say their return on investment has not been that great since Buzz left but they put up. Creighton has an elite fan base and following, seriously they have some of the highest attendance numbers in the entire country. Combine that with top notch facilities and an established coach, you have to credit their leadership they’ve built a power house over there. Those 4 have the edge in recruiting over everyone else in the league not just us.  Georgetown had a really nice 2021 class but before that it was mostly 3 star recruits Ewing was landing for 4 years. Again credit the university for sticking with him through a mass exodus while rebuilding, now in year 5 he’s got them on the rise despite their record. Does that sound familiar to anyone on here? My point is this staffs recruiting has been on par with 6 of the 10 other schools in the league for their first 3 years. It’s not the issue like some keep repeating after every single game.  Posh was the best freshman in the league last year. Champagnie was 1st team. Wusu has been a consistent contributor. Pinzon chose us over Xavier they thought he was good enough. Once your in college all bets are off your recruiting stars don’t mean squat it’s put up or shut up.  Coach overachieved his first two years here and won BE COY just last season. Almost everyone on the team left in a unique year where extra eligibility was given and a free transfer was a new thing. Doesn’t matter what preseason polls were, it’s clearly been the main issue this year. So one bump in the road and you are ready to can the man? Fans like that are toxic and that mindset an issue, thankfully their opinions don’t matter even though Cragg is nice enough to entertain them. CMA has this headed in the right direction you just have to see the bigger picture. It’s strange because most on here seem like they’re older men who shouldn’t be apart of the “instant gratification era”, show some patience.

 

[beast of the east]

@ Boo Harvey

Like I said the top 50 or so ranked recruits are the can’t miss prospects that anybody could see are the elite. After that I trust the college head coaches and their staffs judgement more than those sites or the opinions on this site about recruits. Five star recruits have become rarer in the Big East not coincidentally since football left. Even the cream of the crop recruiting wise (Nova and UConn) generally get about 1 kid around that 40-60 range and the rest are lower ranked 4’s and 3’s, more so 4’s with those two schools specifically. They deserve to be better at recruiting they are multiple national championship level programs in the 21st century.  Those two along with Marquette and Creighton are landing mostly 4 star players. Marquette dumps a ton of money into their basketball program and I’d say their return on investment has not been that great since Buzz left but they put up. Creighton has an elite fan base and following, seriously they have some of the highest attendance numbers in the entire country. Combine that with top notch facilities and an established coach, you have to credit their leadership they’ve built a power house over there. Those 4 have the edge in recruiting over everyone else in the league not just us.  Georgetown had a really nice 2021 class but before that it was mostly 3 star recruits Ewing was landing for 4 years. Again credit the university for sticking with him through a mass exodus while rebuilding, now in year 5 he’s got them on the rise despite their record. Does that sound familiar to anyone on here? My point is this staffs recruiting has been on par with 5 of the 9 other schools in the league for their first 3 years. It’s not the issue like some keep repeating after every single game.  Posh was the best freshman in the league last year. Champagnie was 1st team. Wusu has been a consistent contributor. Pinzon chose us over Xavier they thought he was good enough. Once your in college all bets are off your recruiting stars don’t mean squat it’s put up or shut up.  Coach overachieved his first two years here and won BE COY just last season. Almost everyone on the team left in a unique year where extra eligibility was given and a free transfer was a new thing. Doesn’t matter what preseason polls were, it’s clearly been the main issue this year. So one bump in the road and you are ready to can the man? Fans like that are toxic and that mindset an issue, thankfully their opinions don’t matter even though Cragg is nice enough to entertain them. CMA has this headed in the right direction you just have to see the bigger picture. It’s strange because most on here seem like they’re older men who shouldn’t be apart of the “instant gratification era”, show some patience.

Wow. That's an awesome post.

 

[monte]

@ Boo Harvey

Like I said the top 50 or so ranked recruits are the can’t miss prospects that anybody could see are the elite. After that I trust the college head coaches and their staffs judgement more than those sites or the opinions on this site about recruits. Five star recruits have become rarer in the Big East not coincidentally since football left. Even the cream of the crop recruiting wise (Nova and UConn) generally get about 1 kid around that 40-60 range and the rest are lower ranked 4’s and 3’s, more so 4’s with those two schools specifically. They deserve to be better at recruiting they are multiple national championship level programs in the 21st century.  Those two along with Marquette and Creighton are landing mostly 4 star players. Marquette dumps a ton of money into their basketball program and I’d say their return on investment has not been that great since Buzz left but they put up. Creighton has an elite fan base and following, seriously they have some of the highest attendance numbers in the entire country. Combine that with top notch facilities and an established coach, you have to credit their leadership they’ve built a power house over there. Those 4 have the edge in recruiting over everyone else in the league not just us.  Georgetown had a really nice 2021 class but before that it was mostly 3 star recruits Ewing was landing for 4 years. Again credit the university for sticking with him through a mass exodus while rebuilding, now in year 5 he’s got them on the rise despite their record. Does that sound familiar to anyone on here? My point is this staffs recruiting has been on par with 5 of the 9 other schools in the league for their first 3 years. It’s not the issue like some keep repeating after every single game.  Posh was the best freshman in the league last year. Champagnie was 1st team. Wusu has been a consistent contributor. Pinzon chose us over Xavier they thought he was good enough. Once your in college all bets are off your recruiting stars don’t mean squat it’s put up or shut up.  Coach overachieved his first two years here and won BE COY just last season. Almost everyone on the team left in a unique year where extra eligibility was given and a free transfer was a new thing. Doesn’t matter what preseason polls were, it’s clearly been the main issue this year. So one bump in the road and you are ready to can the man? Fans like that are toxic and that mindset an issue, thankfully their opinions don’t matter even though Cragg is nice enough to entertain them. CMA has this headed in the right direction you just have to see the bigger picture. It’s strange because most on here seem like they’re older men who shouldn’t be apart of the “instant gratification era”, show some patience.

I have no idea what the bottom line is, but Marquette is the 7th largest revenue producing basketball program in the country. Make what you will of it, but at the end of the day you gotta spend money to make money. Shanley seems to understand this from his days at PC, so I don't see why we won't see things happening soon. 

[URL]https://www.google.com/amp/s/f...ge-basketball-programs-america-210045624.html[/URL]

 

[beast of the east]

money invested by sju must come from donor base.

Marquette has a stronger donor base than sju.   Med school and dental school helps.

From wiki:During the 1990s, the university invested heavily in the neighborhood surrounding Marquette with its $50 million Campus Circle Project. It also opened a Washington, D.C.-based study center called the Les Aspin Center for Government, named after the former Secretary of Defense. MBA programs and the College of Professional Studies, with programs aimed at adult education, were also founded during the mid-1990s. In 1996, Robert A. Wild was installed as the university's 22nd president and shortly thereafter began a fundraising campaign that culminated in a major campus beautification effort and the construction of several major buildings, including a new space for the School of Dentistry.[5] The university's growth was also marked by increases in overall enrollment and the highest test scores for incoming freshmen to date.[5]In the early 2000s, Marquette continued to grow, with new residence halls, a library, a School of Dentistry building, and athletics facilities. In 2003 the men's basketball team reached the Final Four, boosting the university's exposure on a national level.[5] Fundraising efforts in the subsequent years helped the university complete its largest-ever capital campaign, the Magis Campaign, which raised over $357 million by 2006.[5]The two largest donations to Marquette University came within the same academic year. The second-largest gift was given by an anonymous couple who have, over time, donated over $50 million to the university. On December 18, 2006, President Wild announced that the couple donated $25 million to the College of Engineering.[24] Less than five months later, on May 4, 2007, Marquette announced a $51 million gift from Raymond and Kathryn Eckstein that would directly benefit the Marquette University School of Law. The gift was the largest amount ever given to a Wisconsin university.[25]

 

[usguard]

Agree

 

[beast of the east]

I think Mike Cragg’s initiative with making the Providence game a festive event will, if continued, make our program a more desired “nest” than a stopover link in a chain of colleges attended.  This will help retain a larger part of the roster and allow for the desired “continuity.”

Last night was like old times….all that was missing was “Here we go Redmen, here we go!”. There were moments when we were in a position to take the lead when the roof would have been raised had we hit the shot. We took the lead, albeit for a moment, on a foul shot - so not as much roof lifting. But, nonetheless, a great night - outside of the final score and some of the reasons leading to a loss that definitely should have been a win.

Cragg is all in. And that young girl who runs the on court promos, games etc… is terrific. Is that Courtney Perzan?

That was my favorite fan chant.    It seemed unique also, but I'm sure it wasn't.   But still, reminiscent of when fans could get on their feet and help change the outcome of the game.

 

[lawmanfan]

Nova about to go down to Marquette for the 2nd time this season 

Shaka Smart running roughshot through the big east in year 1 with all new players.  Makes CMA fumbling through season 3 look even worse.
 

Now do CMA in Year 2 (Big East Coach of the Year).  Smart is doing a tremendous job this year.  Anderson did a tremendous job last year.  Both are snapshots in time, which are sometimes proven over the longer term and sometimes aren't.  A lot of programs would have a whole lot of turnover if the fans ran things!

 

[monte]

Nova about to go down to Marquette for the 2nd time this season 

Shaka Smart running roughshot through the big east in year 1 with all new players.  Makes CMA fumbling through season 3 look even worse.

 

Now do CMA in Year 2 (Big East Coach of the Year).  Smart is doing a tremendous job this year.  Anderson did a tremendous job last year.  Both are snapshots in time, which are sometimes proven over the longer term and sometimes aren't.  A lot of programs would have a whole lot of turnover if the fans ran things!

We can look at this a 100 different ways LMF, but at the end of the day to me it boils down to this question; are Shanley, Cragg and CMA the right combination to resurrect our program. And make no mistake, we'll need all 3 in order for us to be successful again. I honestly don't know whether they are or they are not. My gut tells me they are not, but I agree they need more time. One thing I can tell you for certain, that no matter how many times posters on this board repeat that "they are the right people", until I actually stop hearing the excuses, and start seeing the results(on the court), I will remain skeptical.

Now, any idea when Iona's next home game is? Asking for a friend. 

 

[ADORAZ]

Wrong again! The 2011 class was not his. They were already recruited by the prior coach. 
You are a source of consistent misinformation. 
Your claim that at Arkansas he had all 4- and 5-star recruits was nonsense. He brought one 5-star, a handful of 4-stars, and a majority of 3-stars. Like I said 
Try and research things before you post more mistakes in the future. 

You know, it's possible to simply admit you're wrong on the Internet and to acknowledge when the other person is correct. Let me try one final time to get through to you here.

The 2011 class was CMA's first class at Arkansas. I don't care if he was the first person to recruit or sign them. He was hired in March 2011 and that top 10 class stayed with him until the first game was played in November. We've seen time and time again when new coaches are hired and the entire class decommits (see when Lavin was fired and we lost several 4 stars).

But hey, go ahead and change the parameters of what is widely accepted in college basketball. Remove his 2011 class. His 7 year Arkansas average (without 2011) would be #44.5 rather than his 8 year average of #40, and both of those numbers are still well below his St. John's average of #88. We're talking a 2X difference here, not a 5% difference. Also, no it wasn't a "handful" of four/five stars... it was 12 in 8 years. Stop denying facts, especially after I present them. Again, that's an average of 1.5 per class at Arkansas vs 0.25 per class at St. John's. Assuming players stay for 3 years on average then yes his Arkansas starters were primarily 4/5 stars during his tenure there.

Congrats on wasting everyone's time just to further prove my point. His recruiting hasn't been as strong at St. John's as it was at Arkansas, at least according to metrics from all recruiting websites. I've wasted a lot of time providing every number possible but you keep on denying them, so clearly you have an agenda. I am done debating this.

I have no agenda. I am just correcting your mistaken statement. 
In seven years that he recruited at Arkansas, he brought in seven 4-stars and one 5-star. The rest (majority) were 3-stars or not rated. 
Is that better than the ratings of his recruits at St. John’s so far? Yes, but that wasn’t the erroneous statement you made. You grossly misstated the ratings of his Arkansas recruits. 
As Knight said, enough. Enough of your alternate reality and combativeness. You were wrong, correct information was provided, now please move on. 

LOL it wasn't a mistake that I included his 2011 class. You're just trying so hard for a "gotcha" moment that you're reaching for anything possible to totally discredit everything I'm saying. I did not "grossly misstate" anything. You just can't handle what I'm saying.

But as I said, if you take away his 2011 class then my point still stands. Take away his 2011 class and he still recruited 1.14 four/five stars per year at Arkansas vs 0.25 per year at St. John's. So no matter what, the point I was making from the start, that he recruited better at Arkansas than St. John's (according to recruiting websites), was proven. Thanks for playing.

 

[fordham96]

Shaka Smart is not a first time coach.  And Marquette is significantly better this year then SJU was last year.

Let's not overstate what SJU did last year.  They were 10-9 in the conference in empty buildings with no significant non-conference wins and did not make the NCAA's and were not one of the first 4 out.  In other words they were not significantly close to making the NCAA's.

Right now early projections has Marquette with a 5 seed in the NCAA's.  A 5 seed in the NCAA's would be a better seed then SJU has had in the NCAA's since when they were a 2 seed in 2000.    With season sweeps over Seton Hall and Villanova.  SJU did not do that last year.  Sorry they are not comparable.  

lawmanfan post=454818

Monte post=454793
Nova about to go down to Marquette for the 2nd time this season 

Now do CMA in Year 2 (Big East Coach of the Year).  Smart is doing a tremendous job this year.  Anderson did a tremendous job last year.  Both are snapshots in time, which are sometimes proven over the longer term and sometimes aren't.  A lot of programs would have a whole lot of turnover if the fans ran things!

 

[fordham96]

The other thing Smart did immediately is he used his strong recruiting ties and connections and hit the portal.

Getting two kids from DC/Virginia area schools (knows the area from his VCU days) like Darryll Morsell from Maryland and Tyler Kolek from George Mason (A-10 Rookie of the Year last year) were big pick ups.  Landing them out of the gate before you coach 1 game was huge.

That is 2 guys he could start or be legitimate top 8 rotation guys on a good BE team.  

Case in point las night they combined for 55 minutes and 33 points against Nova.

SJU has to be better with the portal.  They have to get more impactful players from the portal going forward.  The kids they are getting are just not that good and it is clear that the step up in competition is a lot to ask of them.  Save for Wheeler from Purdue and he is probably being asked to do too much.

 

[lawmanfan]

l

We can look at this a 100 different ways LMF, but at the end of the day to me it boils down to this question; are Shanley, Cragg and CMA the right combination to resurrect our program. And make no mistake, we'll need all 3 in order for us to be successful again. I honestly don't know whether they are or they are not. My gut tells me they are not, but I agree they need more time. One thing I can tell you for certain, that no matter how many times posters on this board repeat that "they are the right people", until I actually stop hearing the excuses, and start seeing the results(on the court), I will remain skeptical.

 

Totally reasonable

 

[monte]

l

We can look at this a 100 different ways LMF, but at the end of the day to me it boils down to this question; are Shanley, Cragg and CMA the right combination to resurrect our program. And make no mistake, we'll need all 3 in order for us to be successful again. I honestly don't know whether they are or they are not. My gut tells me they are not, but I agree they need more time. One thing I can tell you for certain, that no matter how many times posters on this board repeat that "they are the right people", until I actually stop hearing the excuses, and start seeing the results(on the court), I will remain skeptical.


 

Totally reasonable

Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting that all 3 may be the wrong people,
just that we will need a very strong Pres, AD and coach working together, in order for us to be successful. "2 outta 3 ain't bad", but it ain't enough. 
 

 

[bucketshardy]

I think Mike Cragg’s initiative with making the Providence game a festive event will, if continued, make our program a more desired “nest” than a stopover link in a chain of colleges attended.  This will help retain a larger part of the roster and allow for the desired “continuity.”

Last night was like old times….all that was missing was “Here we go Redmen, here we go!”. There were moments when we were in a position to take the lead when the roof would have been raised had we hit the shot. We took the lead, albeit for a moment, on a foul shot - so not as much roof lifting. But, nonetheless, a great night - outside of the final score and some of the reasons leading to a loss that definitely should have been a win.

Cragg is all in. And that young girl who runs the on court promos, games etc… is terrific. Is that Courtney Perzan?

That was my favorite fan chant.    It seemed unique also, but I'm sure it wasn't.   But still, reminiscent of when fans could get on their feet and help change the outcome of the game.

Was thinking it has been awful quiet in terms of "Chants" at games this year... "D - Fense" / "Lets Go Redstorm" etc... 

We used to have Male cheerleaders with those loudhailers that would start the chant.... and would get the fans into it.... Put it on the checklist Cragg! lol

 

[lawmanfan]

 

We can look at this a 100 different ways LMF, but at the end of the day to me it boils down to this question; are Shanley, Cragg and CMA the right combination to resurrect our program. And make no mistake, we'll need all 3 in order for us to be successful again. I honestly don't know whether they are or they are not. My gut tells me they are not, but I agree they need more time. One thing I can tell you for certain, that no matter how many times posters on this board repeat that "they are the right people", until I actually stop hearing the excuses, and start seeing the results(on the court), I will remain skeptical.



 

Totally reasonable

Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting that all 3 may be the wrong people,
just that we will need a very strong Pres, AD and coach working together, in order for us to be successful. "2 outta 3 ain't bad", but it ain't enough. 

 

You are right on all points.  For this program to advance it will take both a collective effort at all levels and some time. 

I think the extent of our differences is that on a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being certain that we don't have the right people in place and 10 being certain that we do, you're probably around a 3.5 and I'm probably around a 6.5. 

And that difference probably has a lot to do with the expectation level in terms of time and results.  I'm just looking for the folks we have to get us from being consistently in the bottom 3 of the league to being consistently in the middle 3 in the league.  After 20 years of taking one failed shot after another at trying to find a coach who will miraculously get us from worst to first, with a rinse and repeat every 5 years, I'm willing to see whether an incremental progress approach will be more sustainable. 

I figure this group can get us to respectability (or mediocrity if you prefer) and then if it turns out they can't take us any farther, at least the program will be in a better position to take the next step than it has been following any of our previous hires except for Fraschilla. 

If my expectation was that we would consistently be a top-4 program in the conference by Year 3 or 4, then to be honest my confidence level would probably be more like a 3 than a 6.  I WANT us to be there, I just don't see how we get there right away for a variety of reasons.

 

[Mullins Revenge]

We have 3 years of data now.  Mike Anderson is a slightly above average coach.  He is what he is and thats not good enough if we want to be one of the best teams in the big east.

 

[MainMan]

After 1,191 posts, I'm beginning to sound like this thread in everyday life. 

Pork chops - is that what I really want for dinner?

Left - is that the turn I really want to make at this intersection?

This post - is this really what I want to submit? 
 

 

[Knight]

After 1,191 posts, I'm beginning to sound like this thread in everyday life. 

Pork chops - is that what I really want for dinner?

Left - is that the turn I really want to make at this intersection?

This post - is this really what I want to submit? 

 

Sedation?