tom in salem
Well-known member
della, always the voice of reason.
and let's not forget, those football schools include temple, yukon, cincy and memphis.
All Realignment Talk Here
- Thread starter otis
- Start date
della, always the voice of reason.
and let's not forget, those football schools include temple, yukon, cincy and memphis.
jerseyshorejohnny
Well-known member
Francesa:
Schools like St. John's , Villanova, Georgetown and Seton Hall must have enough PRIDE and break off into their own conference and a league of 10-12 teams.
Focus on Big Cities.
Include St. Joe's, Butler, Xavier, DePaul, Marquette, Providence
Base league on TV markets and basketball heritage.
To sell people in New York on Tulane is "ridiculous'
Schools like St. John's , Villanova, Georgetown and Seton Hall must have enough PRIDE and break off into their own conference and a league of 10-12 teams.
Focus on Big Cities.
Include St. Joe's, Butler, Xavier, DePaul, Marquette, Providence
Base league on TV markets and basketball heritage.
To sell people in New York on Tulane is "ridiculous'
All I can say is, we need to take G'Town, Nova, Prov, SH, Marquette, Temple, Memphis, and go somewhere else. It will be hard to follow a team that plays Tulane, East Carolina, UCF, Houston, SMU, etc. in basketball. We did a great job watering down our conference and eliminating any prestige overnight. I might be done watching college sports if we lose UConn, Cincy, G'Town and Nova.
one thing that confuses me.....in 1979 the big east was created as a basketball-only conference and was wildly successful on the court (and i'm assuming financially as well for the universities)......why did that business model work then and not now?.....is it that the cost of running the hoops programs have gone up so dramatically?.....but it also seems like fees paid by the networks for content have gone up significantly......is it Title IX?.....
i'm just trying to figure out why the all-basketball league makes no sense now vs. what was considered revolutionary back in '79.....
i'm just trying to figure out why the all-basketball league makes no sense now vs. what was considered revolutionary back in '79.....
BCS football started to make WAY more money especially with the addition of networks. That would be my guess. Back in the day football probably didn't make way more than basketball, but now the divide is huge. What is even more shocking to me is that NYC will no longer have a team in a major conference. That must be some kind of historic moment when no NYC colleges are in any kind of major conference. Pretty soon, college sports will only be something that happens in the south the way this is all going.
tom in salem
Well-known member
http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-fo...land-acc-50-million-buyout-sec-big-ten-pac-12
When Maryland finds a way to get out of paying the full $50 million buyout to the ACC for joining the Big Ten; when the Terps show the rest of the ACC how to leave a conference on the cheap despite signing what are supposed to be binding legal documents, conference realignment will reach the final, end-game stage.
The dismantling of the ACC and strengthening of the Big Four is coming. The only things that can stop it are high-priced lawyers.
“We’d be absolutely foolish to not watch Maryland,” one FSU official, speaking on the condition of anonymity, told Sporting News. “If or when they get out of (the $50 million buyout), everything changes. It’s almost like free agency.”
If that’s true, Maryland is the Curt Flood of college football. And it could lead to the one remaining mega move still out there: Florida State and Clemson to the Big 12.
When Maryland finds a way to get out of paying the full $50 million buyout to the ACC for joining the Big Ten; when the Terps show the rest of the ACC how to leave a conference on the cheap despite signing what are supposed to be binding legal documents, conference realignment will reach the final, end-game stage.
The dismantling of the ACC and strengthening of the Big Four is coming. The only things that can stop it are high-priced lawyers.
“We’d be absolutely foolish to not watch Maryland,” one FSU official, speaking on the condition of anonymity, told Sporting News. “If or when they get out of (the $50 million buyout), everything changes. It’s almost like free agency.”
If that’s true, Maryland is the Curt Flood of college football. And it could lead to the one remaining mega move still out there: Florida State and Clemson to the Big 12.
http://www.rumbleinthegarden.com/st...e-realignment-big-east-basketball-acc-big-ten
great article
FATHER HARRINGTON, MR. MONASCH, PLEASE DO SOMETHING!!!!!!!
great article
FATHER HARRINGTON, MR. MONASCH, PLEASE DO SOMETHING!!!!!!!
+100
And Tivo/Dvrs
Live programming (like sports) is worth an enormous amount to tv networks now. It used to be that a Giants Cowboy game drew the same advertising rates as an episode of Seinfeld. Not anymore.
Half the people who watch CSI are seeing it after taping, they fast forward through the commercials.
The vast majority of people don't watch sports that way, they watch it live and see all the ads.
That's why advertisers will pay top dollar now for sports. In addition to the millions of viewers, their viewers are guaranteed to see the ads.
Football draws a lot more viewers than basketball, and so all of a sudden college football, even a mediocre game, is incredibly valuable to advertisers.
Late now, since conference seasons are over, but think back a few Saturdays,between noon and 8PM, It was not uncommon to see a total of three games on ABC, two or three on CBS, one or two on NBC and one on Fox. And that is on Standard TV. Then add ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU and Fox cable, all national cable networks and they are all showing three games or more (with the exception of Fox cable which probably ran one). Add the Big Ten Network, Texas Network, SNY, MSG and you have a tremendous amount of games. What is paying for it? Advertising. Through in some weeknight games on Tuesday, Thursday and even Friday (which use to be High school night only in the south and midwest) on ESPN. A whole lot of coverage and money.
Now look at College hoops on a Saturday and a Sunday. How many games do you get on regular TV? Maybe a double header on CBS? Of course you get the all day/night ESPN. Yes you do get Monday - Thursday on cable also. But you get no where near the viewer ship and therefore the revenue you get with college football and that is what is happening and to basketball. Yes, it goes up tremendously and peaks during March Madness, but overall, no where near what football does.
Now look at College hoops on a Saturday and a Sunday. How many games do you get on regular TV? Maybe a double header on CBS? Of course you get the all day/night ESPN. Yes you do get Monday - Thursday on cable also. But you get no where near the viewer ship and therefore the revenue you get with college football and that is what is happening and to basketball. Yes, it goes up tremendously and peaks during March Madness, but overall, no where near what football does.
While the Chicago market would be new, the A10 already is in the NYC and DC market along with Philly. No, Fordham and George Washington are not St. John's and Georgetown, but the point is they are already here with a championship at Barclay's Arena.
Point taken regarding travel. Bottom line, this is still far from over.
jerseyshorejohnny
Well-known member
Would like to think that there are talks going on right now between the Catholic basketball only schools.
I have a difficult time believing that AD's and Presidents from the basketball only schools are NOT speaking with one another (at the very least, informally) about the best course of action for their institutions.
Time will tell what they decide to do.
What exactly do you want the AD's to do? As Della mentioned in a previous post, those schools lose significant revenue if they leave the Big East.
Listen, the situation stinks. There's no doubt about it. I enjoyed the days when we had a top notch basketball conference. But the fact is the non-FB schools are at a disadvantage. They can't dictate the conversation. Basketball is not the revenue generator FB is.
No matter where you look, this is not going to be a good outcome for St. John's. Just have to accept it at this stage.
Doody,
What the AD could do (and perhaps has done- who knows?) is to have sought consensus for a plan of action with Seton Hall, Providence, Georgetown, Villanova, DePaul, Marquette and addition Xavier. The plan should include a joint fund to hire a consultant that understands media contracts and negotiations.
Unfortunately I do not believe that there is any leadership among the "basketball only" schools and have thus far been in a reactive mode and not the leadership role.
does anyone honestly believe Harrington or Monash are attempting to network and organizing the basketball only schools?
What the AD could do (and perhaps has done- who knows?) is to have sought consensus for a plan of action with Seton Hall, Providence, Georgetown, Villanova, DePaul, Marquette and addition Xavier. The plan should include a joint fund to hire a consultant that understands media contracts and negotiations.
Unfortunately I do not believe that there is any leadership among the "basketball only" schools and have thus far been in a reactive mode and not the leadership role.
does anyone honestly believe Harrington or Monash are attempting to network and organizing the basketball only schools?
redstorm89
Active member
one of the boldest things the administration has done is firing norm and hiring lavin but i can't see them making another bold move and bolting the bigeast. i hope its not true but i think they are going sit and wait it out which is not going to bode well for st john's
tom in salem
Well-known member
The hoop schools are in the majority until 7-1-13.
I'm an optimist.
Something tells me we'll fare fine in the end.
Former Big East insider: “Now is the time” to break away
Posted on November 28, 2012 by Jerry Carino
Today I spoke at length about the Big East’s crisis with a person who worked as a high-level administrator at multiple basketball-only schools in the conference. Among other things, we discussed the report by Kevin McNamara of the Providence Journal-Bulletin on the Catholic schools’ ability to dissolve the league if all seven voted to do so.
Presumably, those schools could then reclaim the Big East name (why would football-oriented schools want it?) and use their share of the considerable exit fees to start a basketball-oriented conference.
Here are highlights from the conversation:
“Now is the time (to dissolve). The basketball schools, they probably still have enough big names to have some leverage with TV. Pull a couple of A-10 schools and do it. I don’t know enough about what they’d be able to do (TV contract-wise), but I think you’d better make a move now or else you’re really going to get lost.”
Me: Why would Georgetown and St. John’s (according to McNamara’s story) be leading the fight to stay associated with football schools?
“Georgetown probably has more to do with Paul Tagliabue. He’s been somewhere behind the scenes with the Big East office in trying to make some of the football decisions and he’s a trustee for Georgetown.”
“St. John’s, I don’t know. It probably has to do with living in this whole Big East dream with the Garden and everything else. But it’s no longer the Big East as we know it or as anybody knows it. Maybe they think because they’re St. John’s and they’re in the biggest market, they hold all the leverage and they’ll be fine (no matter what happens).”
Me: It seems like the Catholic schools have not been on the same page on how to proceed. Is this the tipping point?
“I would think everything’s changed in the last two weeks with Rutgers leaving, and now Louisville. The core of the league is imploding. Not that Rutgers was glamorous, but Rutgers served its purpose geographically, in terms of academic profile, offering a lot of sports and of course football.”
“Rutgers was this nice comfortable piece of furniture that served its purpose and wasn’t going anywhere, and now it’s gone. (The Big Ten) is a great plan by Rutgers, happy for them, but I don’t know how they pulled it off. It had everybody else thinking, ‘Holy shit, what just happened here?’”
Me: Where does Seton Hall stand in terms of influence within the Catholic school faction?
“St. John’s is the player in the New York market. I don’t think they’d leave Seton Hall in the dust—Seton Hall still has enough brand recognition to be included (in any post-Big East scenario), but crazy things are happening and you just have no idea what discussions are going on with who.”
Me: If you were a power broker at Seton Hall, what would you be doing right now?
“There’s not really much you can do but make sure every discussion, every conversation, you’re involved as much as you can be. You don’t want to get left out. The problem in college sports is camaraderie is out the window these days. Every institution is on their own. Back in the Big East’s heyday their operating principle, and this came from Dave Gavitt, was we need each other and together we’re much stronger than any of us as individuals. The Big East was built on a handshake at a bar. They had a mutual understanding of what they should be and what their shared interests were.”
Me: Maybe the remaining founding schools need to be reminded of that credo.
“There’s got to be a sense of urgency here. The time to do it is now. Now is an opportunity to build something new, build a new brand, center it around Madison Square Garden. The worst thing that could happen is if and when the ACC brings their tournament to MSG. Believe me, that thought has been in a lot of peoples’ heads. You think Rick Pitino and Jim Boeheim aren’t going to go to a league meeting and say, ‘We’ve got to get our tournament to the Garden?’ The Big East has no more leverage at the (MSG) bargaining table. Who wants (games with) Tulane and Central Florida?”
Me: What kind of “new” Big East could hold off the ACC’s NYC invasion?
“Smaller is a better brand. My priority is getting a 10-12 team league. You add Xavier, Dayton, Butler. That would be my league. Then you would be contiguous (geographically) and you would have almost every major media market covered. I’d love to be able to sit down with ESPN with that league and say, ‘Show me the money.’
“To me, there are three priorities, assets, that you have. Get as good of a TV deal as you can based on the strength of the basketball schools. Retain the Big East name, and get an exclusive, multi-year agreement for the championship at MSG. That’s how you brand yourself. You can’t lose any of those assets, unless they hit a branding home run with a new name, or you’re really at risk.”
“If those three things can still be controlled, then you have to (dissolve). And do it before the ACC can start moving toward getting into the Garden.”
“That becomes a win-win.
Posted on November 28, 2012 by Jerry Carino
Today I spoke at length about the Big East’s crisis with a person who worked as a high-level administrator at multiple basketball-only schools in the conference. Among other things, we discussed the report by Kevin McNamara of the Providence Journal-Bulletin on the Catholic schools’ ability to dissolve the league if all seven voted to do so.
Presumably, those schools could then reclaim the Big East name (why would football-oriented schools want it?) and use their share of the considerable exit fees to start a basketball-oriented conference.
Here are highlights from the conversation:
“Now is the time (to dissolve). The basketball schools, they probably still have enough big names to have some leverage with TV. Pull a couple of A-10 schools and do it. I don’t know enough about what they’d be able to do (TV contract-wise), but I think you’d better make a move now or else you’re really going to get lost.”
Me: Why would Georgetown and St. John’s (according to McNamara’s story) be leading the fight to stay associated with football schools?
“Georgetown probably has more to do with Paul Tagliabue. He’s been somewhere behind the scenes with the Big East office in trying to make some of the football decisions and he’s a trustee for Georgetown.”
“St. John’s, I don’t know. It probably has to do with living in this whole Big East dream with the Garden and everything else. But it’s no longer the Big East as we know it or as anybody knows it. Maybe they think because they’re St. John’s and they’re in the biggest market, they hold all the leverage and they’ll be fine (no matter what happens).”
Me: It seems like the Catholic schools have not been on the same page on how to proceed. Is this the tipping point?
“I would think everything’s changed in the last two weeks with Rutgers leaving, and now Louisville. The core of the league is imploding. Not that Rutgers was glamorous, but Rutgers served its purpose geographically, in terms of academic profile, offering a lot of sports and of course football.”
“Rutgers was this nice comfortable piece of furniture that served its purpose and wasn’t going anywhere, and now it’s gone. (The Big Ten) is a great plan by Rutgers, happy for them, but I don’t know how they pulled it off. It had everybody else thinking, ‘Holy shit, what just happened here?’”
Me: Where does Seton Hall stand in terms of influence within the Catholic school faction?
“St. John’s is the player in the New York market. I don’t think they’d leave Seton Hall in the dust—Seton Hall still has enough brand recognition to be included (in any post-Big East scenario), but crazy things are happening and you just have no idea what discussions are going on with who.”
Me: If you were a power broker at Seton Hall, what would you be doing right now?
“There’s not really much you can do but make sure every discussion, every conversation, you’re involved as much as you can be. You don’t want to get left out. The problem in college sports is camaraderie is out the window these days. Every institution is on their own. Back in the Big East’s heyday their operating principle, and this came from Dave Gavitt, was we need each other and together we’re much stronger than any of us as individuals. The Big East was built on a handshake at a bar. They had a mutual understanding of what they should be and what their shared interests were.”
Me: Maybe the remaining founding schools need to be reminded of that credo.
“There’s got to be a sense of urgency here. The time to do it is now. Now is an opportunity to build something new, build a new brand, center it around Madison Square Garden. The worst thing that could happen is if and when the ACC brings their tournament to MSG. Believe me, that thought has been in a lot of peoples’ heads. You think Rick Pitino and Jim Boeheim aren’t going to go to a league meeting and say, ‘We’ve got to get our tournament to the Garden?’ The Big East has no more leverage at the (MSG) bargaining table. Who wants (games with) Tulane and Central Florida?”
Me: What kind of “new” Big East could hold off the ACC’s NYC invasion?
“Smaller is a better brand. My priority is getting a 10-12 team league. You add Xavier, Dayton, Butler. That would be my league. Then you would be contiguous (geographically) and you would have almost every major media market covered. I’d love to be able to sit down with ESPN with that league and say, ‘Show me the money.’
“To me, there are three priorities, assets, that you have. Get as good of a TV deal as you can based on the strength of the basketball schools. Retain the Big East name, and get an exclusive, multi-year agreement for the championship at MSG. That’s how you brand yourself. You can’t lose any of those assets, unless they hit a branding home run with a new name, or you’re really at risk.”
“If those three things can still be controlled, then you have to (dissolve). And do it before the ACC can start moving toward getting into the Garden.”
“That becomes a win-win.