All Realignment Talk Here

Time to be proactive and get the hell out of the Big East before it deteriorates any further. Going just about anywhere -- including to a new conference along with Georgetown, Villanova, Providence, Marquette, DePaul & Seton Hall -- is imperative. And the longer we wait, the greater the risk of sinking into oblivion, becoming less & less attractive to quality recruits, and, without question, losing Lavin. Question is: Who's going to step up and take the lead?
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LOL.

Get out and go exactly where when you offer no football program?
 
Baldi seemed certain that we were going to the ACC only a week ago or so and he has an inside source supposedly.
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Don't know who his source is, but I don't see that happening. Just ask why would they take a basketball only school? Yes, I know they took ND without football, but ND guarantees 5 games a year against ACC opponents. That is big for them no matter how many people like to think ND is a non-factor in football and living off of past glory (until this year and I still believe they loose to Alabama or Georgia in the National Title game.). Rank wise they have not been very good, but ratings wise, the fact that they have "subway" alums/fans all over the country and travel well, they are a big time draw and desirable program.

New York has a huge TV market but the interest in college football is small. And as big as the market is, college baskeball ratings are not as high as one would think. The number of pro teams in the area affects it (although a good St. John's program brings the numbers up)..

Lastly, ACC is considered to be NC centric. It already has a school located in New York State (oh it really hurts to type this) that has a decent following.. If the ACC were to take a basketball only school, why not Georgetown. They are closer proximity wise to most of the schools, maintains the ACC's presence in a current market when Maryland leaves, and some of the schools will like their academic profile better (insert Clemson aka Moo U jokes here).
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Are we really considering a city closer to Canada than NYC as representing the NYC market? No doubt Cuse dominates us historically and in about every other aspect in terms of basketball, but the markets are not the same. NYC and Syracuse couldn't be more different. We remain the ONLY real major NYC team...not the fakers like Rutgers, SH, or Cuse. Jersey is Jersey, and Cuse is Canada practically. How do we not bring a lot to the table with MSG and NYC alone? The ACC must know taking us would magnify the conference and build up way more hype. Doing big things in the Carolinas is one thing...doing big things in NYC is about as big as it gets. You are telling me they aren't salivating over potential Duke/SJ, Duke/UNC, SJ/Cuse, G'Town/SJ, G'Town/Cuse, SJ/Pitt, etc. matchups at the Garden? Then factor in the ACC tourney with all those teams when it matters even more. I think many people are selling us short. It's not all about football...it's about ratings, media markets, and money. We bring a few of those and if we take a decent amount less money than the football schools I don't see the problem.
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Cuse has a huge NYC following and remember them out drawing us at MSG. Hw much more hype can the ACC get for basketball. They are rightnow with the addition of Cuse and Pitt, the best conference in the nation. Also, why would they be salivation over Duke/STJ. We played for about 8 years and how many of those years did MSG sell out when we were at home. And yes, it is all about football, if it wasn't the conferences would not be going through the changes we have and are continuing to see. It is all driven by football. The fact that the ACC added three good basketball programs just made it that much sweeter. And my comments on teh media market and NYC stands.
 
I fear that the "basketball only" schools lack the leadership to lead and not follow.

Does anyone believe that Harrington is invested in the conference reshuffling?
 
Neither Harrington nor Monasch are invested in the conference reshuffle, and it has been very clear they are sitting on the sidelines waiting for it all to be over. not like they can do anything anyways.
 
Time to be proactive and get the hell out of the Big East before it deteriorates any further. Going just about anywhere -- including to a new conference along with Georgetown, Villanova, Providence, Marquette, DePaul & Seton Hall -- is imperative. And the longer we wait, the greater the risk of sinking into oblivion, becoming less & less attractive to quality recruits, and, without question, losing Lavin. Question is: Who's going to step up and take the lead?
Click to expand...

LOL.

Get out and go exactly where when you offer no football program?
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John Feinstein's not laughing.
 
The problem with this is the endgame.

You will ultimately (and it is starting to look as though it will be sooner, not later) have four 16-team fb/bb leagues. Those 64 teams will be dividing the vast majority of TV money.

The next step will be that those 64 teams will decide that they do not need to be subsidizing the other 270-odd NCAA programs by dividing revenue. They will secede from the NCAA and form their own entity, with their own football tournament (the BCS) and their own basketball tournament. The NCAA tournament will become what the NIT is now, a place for the non-BCS teams to play.

From a SJU perspective, and the perspective of the other schools that are going to be left out in the cold, there's no much they can do about it. But ultimately, all of those schools are going to be relegated to second-class status both financially and competitively.

I suppose it's not a disaster - people go to Patriot League games, after all.

This may sound like a conspiracy theory, but really all you have to do is follow the money - which is all any of this is about, and it sure seems inevitable.
 
Louisville must of gotten assurances from the ACC that they'd keep their members . But if the ACC lost half their teams to other conferences they'd raid the Big East and take Cincinatiim UCONN , and maybe even Temple because theres not many other football teams to poach.
I hate college football with all my heart and I'm never watching any football game ever again ( pro or college ) because the friggen sport disgusts me !!! And if St. John's gets cast aside and we're irrelavant , I'm never watching college sports ever again. I got many other interests and I don't wanna be bothered by this greedy crap anymore.
 
Big East needs to return to basketball roots, rather than chase football crumbs
by John Feinstein

Great column with a killer last line.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...e56016-3975-11e2-8a97-363b0f9a0ab3_story.html
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So, what should happen? The remaining members from the group that made the conference famous — Georgetown, St. John’s, Villanova, Providence and Seton Hall — should join with Marquette and DePaul and try to lure Xavier, Dayton and St. Joseph’s from the 16-team Atlantic-10 to form a new conference called “The Real Big East.”
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You could say goodbye to Lavin with that kind of conference.

I believe it will eventually become super conferences. But I'd hope we'd have a stronger core than that group.
 
The problem with this is the endgame.

You will ultimately (and it is starting to look as though it will be sooner, not later) have four 16-team fb/bb leagues. Those 64 teams will be dividing the vast majority of TV money.

The next step will be that those 64 teams will decide that they do not need to be subsidizing the other 270-odd NCAA programs by dividing revenue. They will secede from the NCAA and form their own entity, with their own football tournament (the BCS) and their own basketball tournament. The NCAA tournament will become what the NIT is now, a place for the non-BCS teams to play.

From a SJU perspective, and the perspective of the other schools that are going to be left out in the cold, there's no much they can do about it. But ultimately, all of those schools are going to be relegated to second-class status both financially and competitively.

I suppose it's not a disaster - people go to Patriot League games, after all.

This may sound like a conspiracy theory, but really all you have to do is follow the money - which is all any of this is about, and it sure seems inevitable.
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I don't disagree that that could happen - but I think at that point college sports loses it's anti-trust exemption.
The only reason the BCS has a tie-in for a team from outside the big 5 is for that very reason.
They have to allow some access, otherwise it's blatantly anti-competitive.
 
The next step will be that those 64 teams will decide that they do not need to be subsidizing the other 270-odd NCAA programs by dividing revenue. They will secede from the NCAA and form their own entity, with their own football tournament (the BCS) and their own basketball tournament. The NCAA tournament will become what the NIT is now, a place for the non-BCS teams to play.
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Don't see that happening for basketball.

The popularity of the NCAA tournament is not Kentucky v. Carolina or Duke v. Indiana.

It's 15 knocking off 2, the cinderellas. It's the first two rounds of games that drive brackets and make it the most popular sports betting event outside the Super Bowl.

Take away the small schools and the possibility of upset and you take away about half the interest in the NCAA tournament.
 
... From a SJU perspective, and the perspective of the other schools that are going to be left out in the cold, there's no much they can do about it. But ultimately, all of those schools are going to be relegated to second-class status both financially and competitively.

I suppose it's not a disaster - people go to Patriot League games, after all. ...
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Can't speak for others, but for me it would be a disaster.
 
I fear that the "basketball only" schools lack the leadership to lead and not follow.

Does anyone believe that Harrington is invested in the conference reshuffling?
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Please repeat - the money is not there. the money is not there. the money is not there.

Unless the conference disbands -----

SJ currently bringing down 1.2-1.3 million in conf with football - even considering what has happened the money has still go up when the BE negotiates a new tv contract.

Conf with no fb schools - among the lowest tv contracts - SJ would be lucky to get $300,000 a year in such a conf.

SO - "leadership" could mean giving up 1.2 million or more a year and paying $5,000,000 to do it so they could start a conf that may give you $300,000 a year.

HMMM. Let's see. That would take only about 17 years to recoup the $5,000,000.

There are other words for this and leadership is not one of them.
 
I fear that the "basketball only" schools lack the leadership to lead and not follow.

Does anyone believe that Harrington is invested in the conference reshuffling?
Click to expand...
___--------

Please repeat - the money is not there. the money is not there. the money is not there.

Unless the conference disbands -----

SJ currently bringing down 1.2-1.3 million in conf with football - even considering what has happened the money has still go up when the BE negotiates a new tv contract.

Conf with no fb schools - among the lowest tv contracts - SJ would be lucky to get $300,000 a year in such a conf.

SO - "leadership" could mean giving up 1.2 million or more a year and paying $5,000,000 to do it so they could start a conf that may give you $300,000 a year.

HMMM. Let's see. That would take only about 17 years to recoup the $5,000,000.

There are other words for this and leadership is not one of them.
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1) SJU wouldn't have to pay an exit fee if it left. The basketball only schools out number the football schools now, they can vote to disband the conference.

2) You're assuming a basketball only conference would make equal to what the A-10 does now. Except this would be the A-10 plus teams in NY, DC, and Chicago. Not to mention the addition of at least 4 teams who have more brand value than any team currently in the A-10. (SJU, Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette) It's not comparable.

Unless you've been involved in tv negotiations for a conference you simply don't know what a basketball only conference would be valued at.
Yes, the A-10 gets around $400k per team. This would not be the A-10.

If it turns out that a basketball only league would bring in far less money than we make now - then yes I would agree the prudent thing to do is to stand pat in the new Big East. But I don't know that.
Furthermore, travel to games at Tulane, Houston, SMU etc is going to add up. In both basketball and less profile sports. Even a slightly smaller contract could net more money for the athletic department if it also meant less expenses.
 
I fear that the "basketball only" schools lack the leadership to lead and not follow.

Does anyone believe that Harrington is invested in the conference reshuffling?
Click to expand...
___--------

Please repeat - the money is not there. the money is not there. the money is not there.

Unless the conference disbands -----

SJ currently bringing down 1.2-1.3 million in conf with football - even considering what has happened the money has still go up when the BE negotiates a new tv contract.

Conf with no fb schools - among the lowest tv contracts - SJ would be lucky to get $300,000 a year in such a conf.

SO - "leadership" could mean giving up 1.2 million or more a year and paying $5,000,000 to do it so they could start a conf that may give you $300,000 a year.

HMMM. Let's see. That would take only about 17 years to recoup the $5,000,000.

There are other words for this and leadership is not one of them.
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1) SJU wouldn't have to pay an exit fee if it left. The basketball only schools out number the football schools now, they can vote to disband the conference.

2) You're assuming a basketball only conference would make equal to what the A-10 does now. Except this would be the A-10 plus teams in NY, DC, and Chicago. Not to mention the addition of at least 4 teams who have more brand value than any team currently in the A-10. (SJU, Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette) It's not comparable.

Unless you've been involved in tv negotiations for a conference you simply don't know what a basketball only conference would be valued at.
Yes, the A-10 gets around $400k per team. This would not be the A-10.

If it turns out that a basketball only league would bring in far less money than we make now - then yes I would agree the prudent thing to do is to stand pat in the new Big East. But I don't know that.
Furthermore, travel to games at Tulane, Houston, SMU etc is going to add up. In both basketball and less profile sports. Even a slightly smaller contract could net more money for the athletic department if it also meant less expenses.
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Well said. If the current A-10 gets 400k per team, then adding a bunch of premium bball schools in big markets would significantly strengthen their marketability and basketball product. A league like that should be good for quite a bit more than 400k per team. Let's also remember that whoever picks up rights to the league has a veritable bargain not having to shell out football dollars and large scale productions costs for which college football is significantly more expensive. If we are making 1.2 million per year, I don't think that is an extremely difficult number to get to and replace. We wouldn't be going from a conference making 10mil per year to 1 mil.
 
The basketball-only schools will hang on as long as they can to football, because once the football schools leave, they bascially have a ready-made conference. There is no need to prematurely jump away from the football schools.

Take the extra money as long as you can and then pick your two or three others to join your new group.

I also thing that the basketball-only schools are hanging on as long as they can to retain the Big East name. It means more to them than the football schools coming in.
 
Louisville must of gotten assurances from the ACC that they'd keep their members . But if the ACC lost half their teams to other conferences they'd raid the Big East and take Cincinatiim UCONN , and maybe even Temple because theres not many other football teams to poach.
I hate college football with all my heart and I'm never watching any football game ever again ( pro or college ) because the friggen sport disgusts me !!! And if St. John's gets cast aside and we're irrelavant , I'm never watching college sports ever again. I got many other interests and I don't wanna be bothered by this greedy crap anymore.
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gotten assurances from the ACC?
honor among thieves?
hardly.
 
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