All Realignment Talk Here
- Thread starter otis
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Rob Lenhart
Member
Wouldn't it be funny if the BE defectors tried to go back to the BE (ala SDSU, BYU and Boise)...
Obviously the $50M exit fee would get in the way
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Schools would need to find a guardian angel (word is Under Armour will put up $$$ to help Maryland pay their buyout) or the league would negotiate a lesser figure.
Rob Lenhart
Member
from Thamel: BE and ACC caught in crossfire (here's the excerpt for the BE)
This might explain a little bit about why the BE basketball schools might want to stay with football members:
"Folks around the Big East and in the television industry have long identified the potential loss of Louisville and Connecticut as a tipping point for the Big East's basketball schools to break away from their football partners and form a league of their own. However, there has been no significant movement toward secession. (Those breakaway schools would likely not be able to take the name or the tournament rights with them, unless the league dissolved.)
The general attitude among Big East athletic directors at the so-called "basketball schools" is to wait and see the caliber of television deal the Big East can attract and then plot a move from there. ...
What could a basketball-only league get in the marketplace?
The assumption has long been that if the Big East's Catholic schools -- Marquette, DePaul, Providence, St. John's, Villanova, Seton Hall, Georgetown -- broke away, they'd raid the A-10 and form a Northeastern hoops super-conference.
That plan always included schools like Xavier, Dayton, Creighton, Siena and Butler. But what's always kept this idea from gaining any momentum is that college basketball television ratings resemble those of late-night infomercials. The biggest regular season games can't touch the Liberty Bowl in ratings.
(In other words they'd be looking at a financial disaster. The money isn't there for a non-FB conference.)
This might explain a little bit about why the BE basketball schools might want to stay with football members:
"Folks around the Big East and in the television industry have long identified the potential loss of Louisville and Connecticut as a tipping point for the Big East's basketball schools to break away from their football partners and form a league of their own. However, there has been no significant movement toward secession. (Those breakaway schools would likely not be able to take the name or the tournament rights with them, unless the league dissolved.)
The general attitude among Big East athletic directors at the so-called "basketball schools" is to wait and see the caliber of television deal the Big East can attract and then plot a move from there. ...
What could a basketball-only league get in the marketplace?
The assumption has long been that if the Big East's Catholic schools -- Marquette, DePaul, Providence, St. John's, Villanova, Seton Hall, Georgetown -- broke away, they'd raid the A-10 and form a Northeastern hoops super-conference.
That plan always included schools like Xavier, Dayton, Creighton, Siena and Butler. But what's always kept this idea from gaining any momentum is that college basketball television ratings resemble those of late-night infomercials. The biggest regular season games can't touch the Liberty Bowl in ratings.
(In other words they'd be looking at a financial disaster. The money isn't there for a non-FB conference.)
But, and correct me if I'm wrong, we don't get any of the football money now anyway.
So while everyone is concerned about how big the Big East's new contract will be; it primarily benefits USF, Cincinnati, and the other football schools. The basketball only schools don't get an even slice of the pie.
So the real question is, where can we get the most money for the basketball slice of the television contract. I admit, the basketball portion is small, but that's all we get as it is.
Arguably we could get just as much if the bb schools were on their own, and we would have less teams we have to split it with.
Am I wrong?
With all this talk of the ACC falling apart after the Big 12 raids them for FSU, Clemson, etc, we have another possible move which could really shake things up (as if they're not shaken up enough).
U of Texas has not been happy with the Big 12 setup for quite a while. Their conference is filled with members who bring little to the table financially, & don't have much potential. Recent new additions of WVU &TCU offer solid football competition, but hardly anything to increasing revenue. They've had a number of discussions with the Pac 12 about being 1 of 4 additions to an eventual Pac 16. In the past 2-3 years, this talk fell apart, but now the talks apear to be on again. Texas would bring 1 school from their own state (probably Texas Tech), plus Oklahoma & Oklahoma State. This combination would join them with media markets in Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco, Phoenix, Denver, Portland, Seattle & Salt Lake City, bringing them a huge media deal. Also, for football, you would combine the states of Texas & California, which are 2 of the 3 biggest talent producers. Academically, Texas would love to allign themselves with Stanford, UCLA, Cal Berkeley & USC.
If this combo became a reality, the Big 12 would be in chaos, and its doubtful they would be in any position to reel in attractive members.
U of Texas has not been happy with the Big 12 setup for quite a while. Their conference is filled with members who bring little to the table financially, & don't have much potential. Recent new additions of WVU &TCU offer solid football competition, but hardly anything to increasing revenue. They've had a number of discussions with the Pac 12 about being 1 of 4 additions to an eventual Pac 16. In the past 2-3 years, this talk fell apart, but now the talks apear to be on again. Texas would bring 1 school from their own state (probably Texas Tech), plus Oklahoma & Oklahoma State. This combination would join them with media markets in Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco, Phoenix, Denver, Portland, Seattle & Salt Lake City, bringing them a huge media deal. Also, for football, you would combine the states of Texas & California, which are 2 of the 3 biggest talent producers. Academically, Texas would love to allign themselves with Stanford, UCLA, Cal Berkeley & USC.
If this combo became a reality, the Big 12 would be in chaos, and its doubtful they would be in any position to reel in attractive members.
tom in salem
Well-known member
What in the world was the PAC 12 thinking with their latest 2 additions, Colorado and Utah?
Could any conference do any worse?
Oh yeah, Maryland and Rutgers.
Colorado & Utah were added after the first Texas/Oklahoma to Pac 10/12/whatever talks fell apart. First talks included 4 Texas schools plus 2 Oklahoma schools going to the Pac 10. Pac 10 wanted to split the conference, add 2 members & get a title game.
Looking at the additions of Utah & Colorado, its not a horrible move. First of all, Utah is a very solid addition in football & basketball. They had 2 BCS Bowl wins prior to leaving the Mountain West Conference. Now, they've stepped up & will gain access to California talent. They add a growing market with Salt Lake City, so this is a good move. Colorado has more of a Pac 10/12 culture than Big 12, they obviously need to improve in sports, but the potential is there. Denver is a good TV market too. Academically, both schools are OK. You can't judge a move by the looks of things after a year or two.
Looking at the additions of Utah & Colorado, its not a horrible move. First of all, Utah is a very solid addition in football & basketball. They had 2 BCS Bowl wins prior to leaving the Mountain West Conference. Now, they've stepped up & will gain access to California talent. They add a growing market with Salt Lake City, so this is a good move. Colorado has more of a Pac 10/12 culture than Big 12, they obviously need to improve in sports, but the potential is there. Denver is a good TV market too. Academically, both schools are OK. You can't judge a move by the looks of things after a year or two.
A curious question I have regarding revenues for men's basketball:
What's more important to St. John's from a revenue perspective: drawing large gates from a (conference) opponents that are big time (Syracuse, Georgetown, etc) vs. revenues from a TV contract?? (i.e. possible accepting smaller revenue share from a bigger more established conference vs. maybe more revenue dollars from a smaller water down conference)
I'm just trying to figure out how St. John's management will view the issue at hand - if it all comes down to dollars.
Does St. John's men's basketball derive more money from the gate or from their TV contact?
What's the average attendance at an MSG game? 8k? (Wikipedia says it's 8k... 18k for Syracuse and other big games vs. 3k to 5k for the smaller games? That maybe makes sense)
Let's say 8k is the average - What's the average ticket price that St. John's nets for a game? $40? I really don't know what they net after expenses. 8k x $40 = $320k in revenue x how many home games at MSG? 8 games? $320k x 8 games = $2.4mm + add some money from the smaller carnesecca arena games and maybe you get $3mm from the gate from a season. Does that makes sense?
So with regard to a media contract, - what are they pulling down from TV? $2mm? It might be more important for St. John's to try and stay in a tougher league, accepting a lower revenue share, that draws a good gate vs. going to a watered-down Big East conference that wouldn't draw very much at MSG and maybe having a bigger TV revenue share.
It's interesting - the different dynamics.
All help welcome on the above math.
thanks.
What's more important to St. John's from a revenue perspective: drawing large gates from a (conference) opponents that are big time (Syracuse, Georgetown, etc) vs. revenues from a TV contract?? (i.e. possible accepting smaller revenue share from a bigger more established conference vs. maybe more revenue dollars from a smaller water down conference)
I'm just trying to figure out how St. John's management will view the issue at hand - if it all comes down to dollars.
Does St. John's men's basketball derive more money from the gate or from their TV contact?
What's the average attendance at an MSG game? 8k? (Wikipedia says it's 8k... 18k for Syracuse and other big games vs. 3k to 5k for the smaller games? That maybe makes sense)
Let's say 8k is the average - What's the average ticket price that St. John's nets for a game? $40? I really don't know what they net after expenses. 8k x $40 = $320k in revenue x how many home games at MSG? 8 games? $320k x 8 games = $2.4mm + add some money from the smaller carnesecca arena games and maybe you get $3mm from the gate from a season. Does that makes sense?
So with regard to a media contract, - what are they pulling down from TV? $2mm? It might be more important for St. John's to try and stay in a tougher league, accepting a lower revenue share, that draws a good gate vs. going to a watered-down Big East conference that wouldn't draw very much at MSG and maybe having a bigger TV revenue share.
It's interesting - the different dynamics.
All help welcome on the above math.
thanks.
beast of the east
Active member
JSJ Are you sure Nova would never allow St. Joe's? The city 6 (formerly called the Big 5) is a great article of Philadelphia basketball. They call St. Joe's-Villanova the "Holy Wars" because they are fierce battles. You are probably right about how Nova would feel about it, but it would make for great games.
jerseyshorejohnny
Well-known member
See that Nova LOST to Columbia tonight by 18 !!!
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports...0121120_Columbia_shocks_Villanova__75-57.html
http://www.philly.com/philly/sports...0121120_Columbia_shocks_Villanova__75-57.html
Now I'm hearing someone on Jungle said we are going to the ACC? Huh?
EDIT: Also saw the rumor on another forum: "Next up, UConn in for all sports. Georgetown and St John's for basketball only." Whoever posted that seems all but certain.
http://the-boneyard.com/threads/acc-bound.27912/page-4
EDIT: Also saw the rumor on another forum: "Next up, UConn in for all sports. Georgetown and St John's for basketball only." Whoever posted that seems all but certain.
http://the-boneyard.com/threads/acc-bound.27912/page-4